Tailstock Relief....Aaaahhh

[Cyril Griesbach]

A couple of years ago Brent English of Robust Tools asked me if I thought there would be a market for a tailstock Tilt-A-Way for the Powermatic. I said that I thought there would be because it’s a popular lathe with a very heavy tailstock and in any case there would at least be a market of one…me.

Well that’s about where the idea stayed for quite some time. Occasional emails to Brent about it indicated he hadn’t had the time to look much further into it. Then last summer at the Chicago Symposium we talked about it some more and he seemed truly interested in pursuing the idea.

A couple of weeks ago I got an email asking me if I want to “test drive” a prototype of the “Tilt-A-Matic”. Talk about a rhetorical question…I wanted to get in the truck and drive right down there. I’ve been using this prototype for a while now and I can tell you it is a real joy to have on the lathe. I move my tailstock on and off the lathe a lot with different projects and this is a real pain saver for my already arthritic back.

Here are a couple of photos. I have no business association with Robust Tools. This is a prototype and new units will look better in fit and finish and will likely include some small changes that I have suggested as a result of my evaluation. Robust Tools has generously allowed me to keep this one at a slight discount to the retail price. Thanks, Brent.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Cyril - sure looks like a good idea! I have never seen a PM 3520 lathe in person, so a question for you - how heavy is the tailstock? I have the Jet 1642 and remove and replace the tailstock all the time, so I can understand where one of these devices would come in handy for the larger lathes.

Looks like you will put it to good use! Thanks for sharing!

[Burt Alcantara]

Any idea of pricing? The regular Tilt-Away is in the $850 range. I'm considering making a stand with the 18" extension and just sliding it off. When I slide the headstock to the end I'll just wheel it away.

However, if the Tilt-A-Matic comes in at a better price point, I'll be in line.

Steve, the tailstock is very heavy. I keep the tailstock on a high stool so I don't have to travel as much.

Burt

[Rasmus Petersen]

well i have turned on both 1642 and i have a 3520.. lets say dobbelt the weight maby a littel less...

And i LOVE the look of the prototype!! (haven got the $ to order one and have it shippes to denmark)

[Cyril Griesbach]

Steve, I guessed my tailstock weighed over 30 lbs but I just took the bathroom scale out to shop to find out for sure. It came in at 45lbs.

Burt, go to turnrobust.com for more information. It's less than half the cost of the "Tilt-A-way" that goes on the American Beauty. Here's a link.

http://www.turnrobust.com/Tilt-A-Matic_by_Robust.html

[Steve Schlumpf]

Thanks Cyril - always wondered what those things weighed! I took your example and grabbed the bathroom scales and the Jet 1642 tailstock came in at 25.5 pounds. I can see how 45 lbs would get old in a hurry!

[alex carey]

That looks like a sturdy solution to the tailstock problem. I am slightly confused though. It says the outboard still turns up to 28". Is that so? It doesn't look like it from the pictures.

[Frank Townend]

I really like the concept, even if weight wasn't a factor. Slide the tail stock to the platform and tilt it out of the way. Very nice.

It may be a silly question for a lathe as large as the Powermatic but might this affect the center of gravity for other lathes?

[Sean Ackerman NY]

Another solution out there is the Swing Away from Butler Turning. Don is a great guy and we've had a couple conversations about his swing away. I have one in my office and was shocked by the quality when I got it, it's coated in Mustard too. The tilt-a-matic looks like an awesome solution as well, definitely a different take on the idea as it tilts where the swing away swings.

Question for ya, with the tilt-a-matic it looks like a large bowl will hit the tailstock in the position it tilts to, or am I not seeing something properly in the picture.

Either way, awesome ideas to turn a 50 lb hunk o machinery into an after thought, and great way to save the back.

Edit: link to Don's site http://www.butlerturning.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=28

[Frank Kobilsek]

Cyril

Have have the 3520B with the bed ext. in the lower position to turn of the end of the lathe. Questions:

1) Do you think I would still have clearence to turn off the end? Currently the only real use of the ext. is as a stand for the tailstock when I need to remove it. Haven't been able to cut wood big enough to over swing the 20" of inboard capacity. So no loss if it didn't fit.

2) Mounting looks as simple as bolting it to the end of the bed. I am visuallizing this correctly?

This looks much better than the Bulter solution. I used the Butler idea when turning in a class I still found the tailstock to be in my way with blunter bowl gouges on big bowls.

Thanks for posting this, Curious
Frank

[Harvey M. Taylor]

I have the 3520b powermatic My 'swingaway' is a hydraulic scissorlift platform I bought from Harbor Freight. Just jack it up slide it off the ways onto a homemade wooden duplication of the ways. Wont sit flat with the locking mechanism protruding out of the bottom. Roll it out of the way till needed. For large out of balance blanks, just load it on the lift, slide the headstock to the end. Install the faceplate to the workpiece and install it on the headstock.Install the extension at the lower level with the supplied extended banjo steadyrest and go to work. Also if I need to move the lathe, just place the lift under the ways, elevate it slightly and move to the new location.Not just a one use tool. Cost: about 200 bucks. Cheaper than a swing or tilt away with lots of other uses.Works for me. Max

[Burt Alcantara]

Harvey,
I like your solution. I'll take a closer look.

Cyril,
Thanks for the link. That price is not too bad. Kinda in the ball park I'd say.

Burt

[Hilel Salomon]

I have the Butler swingaway and it is a great addition to my pm3520B. I would think that both these have advantages, disadvantages. The swingaway stays level with the bed and is on the right side (looking at the headstock) so it can interfere with someone wanted to get a very sharp angle into the headstock. On the other hand it won't interfere with my mobile outboard rest and I think that it won't interfere with the pm attached outboard unit. The Robust one looks to be more robust, will accomodate someone standing at the backside of the bed, but it might interfere with an outboard... don't know. Anyway, I really, really like my swingaway. I use it all the time when I'm turning.

Good luck,
Hilel.

[Jeff Nicol]

Well I for one do not want it hanging anywhere on the machine when I want it out of the way. The tailstock is lighter than some of the wood I put on the lathe so It really does not bother me to take it off and put in on a table out of the way. I do a lot of hollowing and I stand close to the end when doing inside of bowls. I want the end free and clear so it won't work for me no matter what.

Just my way

Jeff

[Cyril Griesbach]

Frank,
To answer your question I went out to the shop to measure...The Tilt-A-Matic extends beyond the bed of the lathe 7 3/16" so to turn off the end with you extension mounted in the lower position your piece would need to clear this distance. A typical bowl form might allow this considering the size a bowl bigger than 20" would be and if the curve to the rim was beyond the 7 3/16" of the unit. The biggest roughout I have on hand is 16" dia x 6 1/2 deep and mounted in a chuck with the headstock slid to the very end of the bed the rim extends beyond the unit by several inches. This assumes your using the banjo on the lower extension. Believe me in that a 16" bowl is huge and hard to sell so a bigger bowl is....well you get the idea. You should note that Robust does not consider this to be a bed extension able to increase the spindle capacity beyond the lathes designed 35". Still...it is very sturdy!

Nothing wrong with the Butler per se but for me it's not really out of the way. I've watched all the possible solutions for the PM tailstock over the years and I'm glad I waited for this solution.

Yes, the mounting is as easy as it looks. The Tilt-A-Matic does not interfere with

[Cyril Griesbach]

That looks like a sturdy solution to the tailstock problem. I am slightly confused though. It says the outboard still turns up to 28". Is that so? It doesn't look like it from the pictures.


Alex, I'm not sure where you got that information. Can you tell me?

[Cyril Griesbach]

I really like the concept, even if weight wasn't a factor. Slide the tail stock to the platform and tilt it out of the way. Very nice.

It may be a silly question for a lathe as large as the Powermatic but might this affect the center of gravity for other lathes?


Frank, it's not made for any other lathes. If I can find them reasonably local I'd like to see if it fits the big PM and/or the Jet 1642 but I don't expect it will.

[alex carey]

http://www.turnrobust.com/Tilt-A-Matic_by_Robust.html

The Tilt-A-Matic installs in minutes– just three bolts using existing holes
Fits the original 3520 as well as the later 3520A and 3520B




Tilt the tailstock to the back or front


Outboard turn up to 28”


Rugged all-steel construction


Powder coat paint for added durability

[Cyril Griesbach]

http://www.turnrobust.com/Tilt-A-Matic_by_Robust.html

The Tilt-A-Matic installs in minutes– just three bolts using existing holes
Fits the original 3520 as well as the later 3520A and 3520B




Tilt the tailstock to the back or front


Outboard turn up to 28”


Rugged all-steel construction


Powder coat paint for added durability


Thanks for your response, Alex. I'm sorry if I confused you but the Powermatic 3520 and it's A and B variants are all the same lathe.

I do not have an extension for my lathe so I cannot verify turning outboard up to 28"...sorry.

[Dick Sowa]

Each of the posted solutions is a good idea and a great way to save my back!

I work off the end of my 3520b a lot...nearly always to hollow a vessel, where it would be too awkward to reach way over the bed. Virtually all my bowls are smaller than 20", so anything that gets the tailstock out of the way, with minimal effort would be great!

One thing I like about the Butler product is that you don't have to lift anything to use it...it swings horizontally, rather than rotates.

[Dick Strauss]

This thought is kind of long...

I've thought about this for a while and I have a suggestion...My idea is a tailstock extension made of plywood or metal where one plate pivots up/down and a second plate pivots left/right using two pairs of standard door hinges. This could take the tailstock around the corner and below the bed on the backside of the lathe (now completely out of the way). Since I don't own a 3520 to make measurements, I'm sure lots of changes to my dimensions will be needed. You could even incorporate a spring or an old door damper to keep the tailstock from dropping down suddenly.

A build process might look something like this:
1) cut three pieces of 3/4" plywood roughly about 8x12", two 8x13", two 3x10" (for the bed extension), and a few scraps to make a makeshift lathe bed section long/strong enough to hold the tailstock
2) glue two of the larger pieces together. Glue two of the smaller plywood panels together. This should make one small and one large double-thick panel.
3) mount the the small double-thick and the last small 8x12" piece of plywood together using two door hinges mounted along the 8" side of both pieces (this allows you to swing the tailstock down)
4) make a lathe bed section from plywood that is long enough to allow for the tailstock to clear the end of the bed but allows for the tailstock clamp nut to clear.
5) glue the plywood makeshift bed section to the top of the double thick plywood piece. An allowance for the tailstock nut should be made on the top of the double plywood piece. I would suggest lots of cross bracing between the plywood bed extension and the vertical double plywood sheet.
6) mount the double thick plywood (now with bed section) to the first two smaller plywood panels using another pair of hinges mounted on the side (this allows for swining the tailstock to the side
7) temporarily clamp the whole assembly to the lathe such that the plywood bed extension is aligned with the lathe bed.
8) mark the bolt hole patterns from under the lathe looking back towards the tailstock but through the bolt holes. Drill three pilot hole using a 1/8" bit through the double-thick plywood to match the bolt pattern.
9) drill holes using a forstner bit to match the size of the washers being used with the bolts. The hole should be drilled to a depth so that the bolt head and washers are below the surface of the plywood. The countersink holes should be made from opposite the marks previously made to mark the bolt patterns.
10) bolt the mechanism to the lathe
11) make some sort of locking pin/bolt to keep the mechanism closed
12, 13, 14, 15) enjoy!


????????

[Burt Alcantara]

After looking at this thread a few times I'm beginning to like it more and more, especially with free shipping. One thing I like a lot is it's made by Robust. That would beat anything I made hands down by a hundred miles.

I'm glad it's not shipping until May. Will see how hard it tugs on me.

Burt

[Cyril Griesbach]

It's just money, Bert. :D How hard is that tailstock tugging on you? :eek:

[Burt Alcantara]

Right now my arms and back are mumbling quite a bit.

[Dick Sowa]

I just realized that any of the options that permit the tailstock to slide off the end of the ways, AND can be rigidly fixed in place, could double as a pretty nifty bed extension!