New slippery slope

[Zach Dillinger]

So I've found a new slippery slope to tumble slide down head first: tool chests. I was at an anteek maul yesterday and found what looks like an old steamer trunk, but it is made out of pine plywood, skinned in metal, and has been turned into a tool chest. It has one fixed tray on the left side and two sliding trays on the right. It also has a saw till in the top and two rotating knobs to hold a carpenters square. The top tray on the right is very dirty, with what appears to be encrusted, dried out grease coating the whole shebang. Dimensions are 32" wide, 17" deep, and 13" tall. I am trying to decide what to do with it.

I have a few problems. I'd like to make a user chest out of this, but with the sliding tills, planes will not fit while resting on their soles (totes are too high to fit under the tray). My current thought is to redo the trays to provide enough clearance to get planes under them, and to ensure that the trays are removable (they currently operate like a drawer slide and cannot be lifted out). If I do that, I will probably build a sliding drawer till on the left side to replace the fixed tray. I might veneer the whole inside to pretty it up, but leave the outside as is.

I can see myself collecting tool chests. I find them fascinating. Any good website detailing the classic cabinetmakers chests, like Seaton and Phyfe? I like the look of the Gerstner boxes, but their utility is limited to me because the drawers are too small to store planes.

Thanks for any ideas / info you may have.

[Justin Green]

There's a book I ordered called The Toolbox Book by Jim Tolpin. It looks like it might have a lot of ideas in it. Barnes and Noble and Books-A-Million did not have it in stock.

I have a few tool boxes I'll post pictures of when I get home. I also have some antique tool trays that the wife has potpourri in at the moment. My favorite chest was a large green one about 2' x 3 1/2' roughly. The lid is tin-wrapped and the bottom painted. Pretty neat. Loaded, it must have been a beast to haul around. I'm thinking it wasn't carried anywhere very often, because there are no handles on the ends and no signs that there ever were handles attached. It has a tray on the inside with a few sections. The wife currently has it between two chairs. We like it because you don't need to use coasters for drinks.

I'm struggling with what to make to hold the hand tools I've collected. Right now they are camping out on top of the workbench, which isn't good. I thought about using an old tool chest, but then you have to bend over a lot to grab things, which seems like it would be a little awkward.

[Rod Sheridan]

I purchased the above mentioned book, and it has given me some good ideas.

It's a lot easier to modify an existing design to fit your own tools, than to re-invent the whole mess.

Speaking of mess, this tool collecting.........ER I meant tool restoring/using is just the beginning. Then you need a proper bench, then storage for all those tools........

My kids tease me that I'm going to be dead before I get the shop the way I want it. (I'm just glueing up the second base cabinet for the shop, BB plywood with birch edgeing, BB drawer fronts with walnut edgeing).

According to the kids, my shop furniture looks better than the remainder of the house:eek:

Regards, Rod.

[David Keller NC]

Zach - There are a number of resources for historical tool chests. One of the best is The Seaton Chest, though I'm not sure this book is still in print (it was re-printed a couple of years ago).

You might also want to watch Roy Underhill's 2-episode series on a joiner's tool chest:

http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/schedule/28season_video.html

[Zach Dillinger]

Zach - There are a number of resources for historical tool chests. One of the best is The Seaton Chest, though I'm not sure this book is still in print (it was re-printed a couple of years ago).

You might also want to watch Roy Underhill's 2-episode series on a joiner's tool chest:

http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/schedule/28season_video.html


David,

It was that episode that got me interested in building / finding a tool chest to begin with! I seriously thought about building that one, but it seemed a bit small for my needs (I have a lot of planes... not as many as some of you but a lot..)

Then I got the Toolbox Book from my local library. Those chests are very inspiring. My dilemma at this point is whether I should adapt this chest to my uses or spend the time and effort and just build one to suit me from the beginning. I'm leaning towards adaptation at this point, with some beautification along the way. I like the idea of using this old, neglected box again.

Zach

[george wilson]

Of course,Gerstner chests are generally machinist's chests ( though they made quite a variety of chests,such as theatrical makeup chests,fly tying chests,etc.). Their chests are for smaller items.

The large chests like the Seaton chest were made large enough for the tools they held,but also served as workbenches for in the site work. They were finished nicely on the inside,but rough and heavy on the outsides for taking knocks in shipping,workbench use,etc.. I remember when you could go to flea markets in Pennsylvania,and pick up carpenter's chests,the plain ones,for $25.00 to $75.00 empty.

[Zach Dillinger]

Of course,Gerstner chests are generally machinist's chests ( though they made quite a variety of chests,such as theatrical makeup chests,fly tying chests,etc.). Their cheste are for smaller items.

The large chests like the Seaton chest were made large enough for the tools they held,but also served as workbenches for in the site work. They were finished nicely on the inside,but rough and heavy on the outsides for taking knocks in shipping,workbench use,etc.. I remember when you could go to flea markets in Pennsylvania,and pick up carpenter's chests,the plain ones,for $25.00 to $75.00 empty.

So the cabinetmakers would actually haul their chests to job sites? Thats amazing, given the size and weight. Leaving the outside of my chest rough would fit with tradition, it seems.

Thanks for the reply,

Zach

[george wilson]

Carpenters would haul their chests to job sites. Cabinet makers had shops. There may have been instances where cabinet makers would be itenirate(sp?),like shoe makers often were in the colonies. Usually,though,they had shops.In a colonial situation I suppose anything was possible. When towns with wealthy gentry were established,they would be a permanent customer base for fine furniture. Music teachers traveled about,staying with familys for some time,teaching music,them moving to the next place. We have a shoemaker's shop in Williamsburg,but at the time,there wasn't a known shop permanently there. We had to have shoes for costumed employees. There was really no musical instrument maker's shop there either. The cabinet shop did some instrument,and gun work. This caused the instrument shop to be merged into the cabinet shop in 1986.

[David Keller NC]

"So the cabinetmakers would actually haul their chests to job sites? Thats amazing, given the size and weight. Leaving the outside of my chest rough would fit with tradition, it seems."

Not necessarily. The cabinetmaker's chests from the period were often considerably larger (and heavier) than joiner's chests. Often these chests were intended to be only infrequently moved - their purpose was more along the lines of theft prevention and protection from the elements than as portable toolboxes in the way that we'd think of them today.

There are modern examples of this - the Studley tool chest, though quite compact, wasn't intended as a toolbox to be taken from jobsite to jobsite, it was an organizational system for a workshop. According to the write-ups I have on it, it requires 4 strong men to lift it - definitely not "portable"!

[Zach Dillinger]

Carpenters would haul their chests to job sites. Cabinet makers had shops. There may have been instances where cabinet makers would be itenirate(sp?),like shoe makers often were in the colonies. Usually,though,they had shops.

I see. Thanks for the clarification.

Zach

[Zach Dillinger]

"So the cabinetmakers would actually haul their chests to job sites? Thats amazing, given the size and weight. Leaving the outside of my chest rough would fit with tradition, it seems."

Not necessarily. The cabinetmaker's chests from the period were often considerably larger (and heavier) than joiner's chests. Often these chests were intended to be only infrequently moved - their purpose was more along the lines of theft prevention and protection from the elements than as portable toolboxes in the way that we'd think of them today.

There are modern examples of this - the Studley tool chest, though quite compact, wasn't intended as a toolbox to be taken from jobsite to jobsite, it was an organizational system for a workshop. According to the write-ups I have on it, it requires 4 strong men to lift it - definitely not "portable"!

I think my confusion is coming because of the terminology. A joiner is someone who would work at the job site, like a modern finish carpenter? As such, his box would be more portable and contain fewer tools. On the other hand, the cabinetmaker is a stationary worker in his own shop, with all the tools necessary to build the style of furniture his client desired. Therefore, his box was much larger, much heavier, and was more elaborately decorated, at least on the inside, because it could be without fear of job site damage and to show off his skill to prospective clients.

Do I have it right?

Thanks,

Zach

[David Keller NC]

Yep, that's about right. A "joiner" is typically applied in the period as one would expect for a finish, or even basic, carpenter. What I've seen from surviving examples is that these individuals typically had at least a couple of smaller toolboxes - one would contain the molding planes he needed, and the other would contain the bench planes, chisels, marking and measuring tools, and saws.

That's not to say that a cabinetmaker's tool chest wasn't moved - there's considerable evidence that the Seaton chest was made for a sea voyage to America that was never undertaken. There's also speculation that the elaborate veneer patterns typically found on a cabinetmaker's chest of the period was done as a means of advertising the individual's skills to prospective clients. Makes sense, as there were no photographs to make up a portfolio, and it'd be the rare individual that could keep pieces in his shop to show customers.

[george wilson]

Often,the elaborate decorations made in some tool chests,were made by journeymen as their "master piece" to prove their skills. I am sure they also served as advertisments. A cabinet maker took months to make a piece,and usually,unless a large and well established shop of some wealth,could not afford to keep an assortment of pieces around to show customers.

[Zach Dillinger]

Thank you David and George, it is all much clearer now. I am not sure that I need a really large cabinetmaker's chest; the joiner's chest size may suit me just fine. I still think I'll have a go at dressing up the tills with some simple veneer and inlay. I've never done that kind of work before and this seems like a great opportunity to try my hand.

Thanks,

Zach

[george wilson]

An alternative is a pattern maker's tool chest,which looks like an oversize machinist's chest,with drawers that can be 4" or 5" high at the bottom,maybe up to 3' wide. You don't see them that often. They have a great one at the Mariner's Museum in Newport News,va.

[Justin Green]

Just wanted to post a couple of pics of my favorite.

[Eric Brown]

I'll post more pictures in the projects forum but it is a work in progress so keep that in mind. (BTW, the openings to the right are for saw tills.) Working on walnut edging now.

Eric
112709

112710

[David Keller NC]

By the way, Zach - there are several alternatives for storing side-escapement molding planes (not sure if that's something you need to include, but thought I'd mention it). One's the "conventional" means where the molding planes are stored side-by-side on their soles with the wedges and irons in the planes. The advantage is that the modling plane is easy to grab and is ready to go right out of the chest. The disadvantage is that you can't see the profiles, and it's not a very efficient use of space.

Another way is to store the molding planes on their heels with the wedges and irons in the planes. The advatage here is that you can immediately see the profiles, but the planes are more difficult to grab, and while slightly more space efficient, it still wastes space inside the chest.

The third way is to store the planes either on their soles or their heels with the irons and wedges out of the planes. This is the most space efficient way to store them, since the protruding wedge and iron isn't there, and multiple rows can be stored on the bottom of the chest. The rather big disadvantage here is that you must carefully keep up with which wedge and iron went in what plane. Not too tough if all you have is a few rabbets and dados and a set of hollows and rounds, but if you've a lot of planes and complex profiles, it can be really confusing to match everything up.

Naturally, you can carefully label the irons and wedges to make it easier, but if you're building a chest from scratch and can decide the dimensions flexibly, I would not choose this method. However, if you're retrofitting an existing chest, this option may be the only way to fit a molding plane till.

[Zach Dillinger]

David,

Funny you should mention molding planes because I was just thinking about that problem last night. Right now, I don't have all that many, probably 10 if you count my wood rabbet plane and my 3/4" dado plane. I'm leaning towards storing them sole-down with wedges in because they will fit (barely) under the fixed till on the right side. Since I don't have that many, I will just remember which plane is where. I plan to gather more of these, but by then I imagine I will have more specific information about my needs and will build a chest that meets them.

Thanks again for all of your help.

Zach