What percent of time do you actually need more than a 6" jointer?

[Rick Cicciarelli]

I know with most of this stuff, if you can afford it, bigger is better....more capacity, more power, etc. etc. I am just curious what percent of time would you say you are actually needing more than a 6" capacity on your jointer?

[Wilbur Pan]

I'd say at least 50% of the time. Not that I'm routinely face jointing boards that are wider than 6". Instead, I use the extra width to be able to skew the board as it goes over the jointer head, which reduces tearout that occurs if I'm running the board straight over the jointer.

[Mike Circo]

"Need", almost never.
"Wanted" occasionally.

As a hobbiest, I'm not in a hurry, nor can I afford or need extra wide boards. So going slow, doing glueups and spending extra time in planning is fine by me. My 6" jointer fit down the stairs of my basement shop and does everything I've ever asked of it.

I've jointed 6 foot long boards with no problems. Well... a bit of extra work, a few extra passes to get it right, but once I get the technique down, perfect results. Like I said, with the 8" I'd be done in one pass, with the 6" I fussed a bit, but that is part of the fun.

One man's experience.

[Robert Parrish]

I agree with Mike, I rarely need more than 6" for jointing.

[Rod Sheridan]

Rick, my first jointer was an 8" General, and I replaced after many years with a 12" Hammer A3-31.

As others said, a lot of that was to be able to skew difficult wood to prevent tearout.

My wife actually started me on the replacement as she had a 10" board she wanted to joint, and didn't want to rip it.

Most of the wood I use is in the 6 to 8" range, so a 6 inch machine would almost always be too small for my work.

Regards, Rod.

[Brad Patch]

Rick,

What is the scale of work that you intend to do? Some woodworkers do large scale projects where a 8 inch or greater jointer is appropriate. I have a 6 inch jointer and have used it for 30+years. Have there been times when a 8 inch jointer would have been handy, yes, but very rarely. The scale of my work is smaller in nature and a bigger more expensive machine can't be justified.

Some of the most outstanding reproduction work being made today is by craftsman who have very modest equipment.

[Corey Wilcox]

Rick,

If I had it to do over again I would go with the 8". You don't always need it, but for not a whole lot more money it gives you more capacity and flexibility.

[Gary Herrmann]

Rick, I had a 6" jointer for 5+ years and only upgraded to an 8" General because I got a really good deal. You can do a lot for a long time with a 6". You can select your boards based on width, and even if you go wider, you can rip and joint which I did and still do.

I doubt I'll ever go widre than an 8" jointer - simply because I have no idea how I'd get it down the stairs.

[Ron Bott]

Brad makes a good point, much depends on what type of work you do. I think the "need" for an 8" jointer is a bit overstated, next to the "need" of having a cabinet saw. Unless you have specific requirements a 6" jointer will serve you nicely. Surely there will come a time where you wish you had the extra capacity, but there are ways to work around that.

[Stephen Edwards]

Rarely do I need more than a 6" jointer. As OP have mentioned, it depends on what you'll be doing. I'm happy with my 6" jointer and have no plans to get a larger one.

If you do occasionally need a larger jointer perhaps you have a friend nearby who has one. My brother has an 8" jointer that I'm welcomed to use anytime. I've never used it.

If you decide to get a 6 inch jointer, I recommend that you get one with the longest tables that you can afford.

[Montgomery Scott]

At least half my current stock is wider than 8". I have boards up to 27" wide so I find my 8" limiting me rather frequently.

[Larry Fox]

For me it it would be 75+%. I have an 8" so I buy stock as wide as I can handle so there is definitely some selection bias in there. When I had a 6" I bought stock that I could handle with a 6".

[Frank Drew]

It's not just the width of the cutter head, bigger machines also have longer tables, without doubt an advantage when jointing longer and/or heavier stock.

I apprenticed at a place that only had a 6-inch Rockwell; there were times when I'd have to hold down the jointer with my foot on the infeed side of the base frame because the weight of the board on the outfeed table wanted to make to machine tip over. We still did very high level work in that shop because it's the craftsman not the machine, but when I set up on my own I got a 12" machine and never, ever felt it was more than I needed.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I went from a 6" to a 16" jointer, and if you buy good S3S stock, you can built a bunch of good stuff with a 6" jointer. There are work arounds for any board, but what a wider jointer does is give you more options, which saves time. You won't regret a wider jointer, but with a little change of your approach, a 6" jointer will do 100% of what you need it to do. You will have to compromise with stock and techniques, but it will work.

[Frank Drew]

And for whatever level of work you do, a reliable 6" jointer is better than no jointer unless you're committed to exclusively hand methods.

[Chip Lindley]

DITTO on Longer Tables! 2/3 of the attraction of my DJ20 is the wayy long table length! I started out with a Milwaukee/Delta 6" with ONLY a 32" bed length. That little jointer served me pretty well for cabinet work, with a few *balancing acts* along the way!

Accurate edge jointing is more important to me than flattening wide stock. I am concerned with straight-edging a long board FIRST! Then all stock is ripped just over-size before it is run through the jointer. I have more control over straight/flat this way. 99% of cabinet work is done with stock 6" or less in width. It has been recommended that panels be glued up of stock 4" wide (or less) to counteract warpage. In all practicality, looking back over 30 years of woodworking, a 6" jointer handled 95% of anything I needed to do *width-wise*!

Others who use very wide stock in furniture work, making wide-board tabletops, etc. may even *suffer* with a 12" jointer! But, IMO, the need to face-joint wide boards is a moot point unless the width is needed intact. If a huge board is that special, hand-planing may be best anyhow!

[Rick Cicciarelli]

Well that is the deal, I'd like to get a jointer and a planer, but the expense of an 8" is right at the upper limit...AND I'd have to run it on 220, which means adding a new box...yeah, my breaker box is full, so I'd have to run a whole new box. Seems to me, that for now, in my current basement shop, a 6" would be the way to go. I am looking at the Grizzly or the Rigid...leaning towards a Grizzly though......

[David Keller NC]

I suspect you're going to want to run 220V eventually. If you're making furniture, you're going to run into the need to work thick, hard wood, and most contractor's saws struggle with 3" thick cherry and walnut. So far as I'm aware, most all cabinet table saws run on 220V.

And, assuming you're going with power tools, you will eventually want/need a shaper, and even the most anemic of these run on 220V.

I had a 6" Powermatic jointer. It was a nice machine, but had inadequate table length - the Delta DJ20 (8") was a considerable improvement without breaking the bank.

That said, I still have to hand-joint the faces of wide boards, but that can be done expeditiously with hand planes. I'm not sure I could push a 20" wide board across a 24" wide jointer anyway, even if I could afford it and managed to get a 3000 lb. machine in my shop.

[Rick Cicciarelli]

Is is the length of the table really your limiting factor on the length of the board you can accurate run through the jointer, or is there ways around this as well. I know typically if you have a bowed board, you want the two ends of your board touching the tables...but again, are there ways around this? Seems like about 42-48" is the limit on the length of the 6" jointer tables.....

[Chris Padilla]

For me, having a planer and jointer the same width is quite nice (16" j/p). I prefer to work with wide stock as much as possible so I am really digging have 16" of width to work with. But, WOW, it can be tough pushing wide stock across the jointer...a real workout.

[Stephen Edwards]

Is is the length of the table really your limiting factor on the length of the board you can accurate run through the jointer, or is there ways around this as well. I know typically if you have a bowed board, you want the two ends of your board touching the tables...but again, are there ways around this? Seems like about 42-48" is the limit on the length of the 6" jointer tables.....

This is the jointer that I have:

http://grizzly.com/products/6-Parallelogram-Jointer/G0604X

Overall bed length is 55 1/2 inches.

[Ron Bott]

Seems like about 42-48" is the limit on the length of the 6" jointer tables.....

Have a look at the Powermatic 54HH, it has a 66" bed and a helical cutterhead. A guy down the street just got one. WOW, super nice.

[David Keller NC]

"Is is the length of the table really your limiting factor on the length of the board you can accurate run through the jointer, or is there ways around this as well. I know typically if you have a bowed board, you want the two ends of your board touching the tables...but again, are there ways around this?"

Yes, you can work around this. You put the concave side of a bowed board on the bed of the jointer, joint the front end of the face of the board until the jointer stops cutting, flip the board around and do the other end, and repeat until you get close to the center of the board. In order to make this work, you must take light cuts.

You can also make (very accurate) auxillary infeed and outfeed tables - I've seen this done successfully by someone that regularly needed to straighten out 12' boards. It works, but you have to set and maintain the same depth of cut for the alignment of the auxillary infeed table to stay accurate.

[Neal Clayton]

Well that is the deal, I'd like to get a jointer and a planer, but the expense of an 8" is right at the upper limit...AND I'd have to run it on 220, which means adding a new box...yeah, my breaker box is full, so I'd have to run a whole new box. Seems to me, that for now, in my current basement shop, a 6" would be the way to go. I am looking at the Grizzly or the Rigid...leaning towards a Grizzly though......

grizzly has an 8" that runs on 110. it's a 2hp motor that can be wired for either. i have it (the smaller footprint 8").

as for needing, i need at least 8" because i build doors some of which start out with a 5.5" stile, so to reliably get that width i'll have to start with 2x8 stock.

as someone else said above, it depends on what you build, if you don't build things that call for wider boards you might get by with a 6" forever.

[Rick Cicciarelli]

Yeah, Grizzly's cheap 8" jointer is the same price as there 6" parallelogram jointer.....

[Andy Pratt]

I had a 6" jointer and found it very frustrating, I was having to rip at least 50% of my stock to width before face-jointing. It seems like of all the wood I have purchased, you could make the breakdown something along the following lines (rough estimates): 50% 0-6 inch, 30% 6-9 inch, 15% 9-12", 5% 12"+

Based on what I was seeing with that, I upgraded to a 12" jointer. Now, a pre-jointing rip is a very rare thing. I buy most of my stock from a local sawmill and off craigslist deals, and get much better prices than any of the large lumberyards typically offer. Doing this you also get more variation in the size of your stock, so the larger jointer is very useful to me.

The wider jointer gives you more options with the stock you purchase, lowering your cost per board foot by making a wider range of suppliers available to you. If you were going to be purchasing S2S because you can't face joint a wide board, it saves you even more money. Once the lumber is in your shop, you get less waste per board, as the wider your boards are, the more efficiently you can use the lumber from them.

Bottom line: The wide jointer will save you time and money, so if either of those are a major concern you probably want to go with more than 6". If you don't mind a less efficient use of your lumber, and shop space and immediate cash expenditure are more pressing problems, you'll be able to do a lot of good things with a 6" jointer. If you want a compromise between the two, 8" is probably the way to go, as it's the best return on % of lumber for the least amount of money.

Hope this was useful,
Andy

[Frank Drew]

I had a 6" jointer and found it very frustrating, I was having to rip at least 50% of my stock to width before face-jointing.

Andy,

You can prepare stock up to about twice the width of your jointer by flipping it around end for end every other cut; the jointed face might not end up perfectly even, but it will be quite flat enough for a reference surface to run through your planer. This is easier and a lot faster, IMO, than building a planer sled every time you want to work up wide stock.

[RickT Harding]

I've got a 6" and hate it. I think it's because I've gotten so much stock that is 7-10" wide. A lot of boards I've had to try to cut down to fit the jointer I wouldn't have had to with an 8". My projects have also been things with wide tops on them. So every time I dividie out my 18", 24", etc top I find it's just more work on my 6".

I've actually been collecting more hand planes and testing out my ability to flatten stock with them in the hopes I can take some of my wider boards and use them without first cutting them down.

[Andrew Joiner]

This thread is great. You are like me(and most woodworkers),Rick. I like to "quantify" or justify my choice before I buy.

The main thing with a lot machine decisions is "what is the maximum capacity needed". There are a lot of threads like this here.

The reality is you MUST know in advance all the products you will ever make and all the stock you will ever obtain to know for sure what capacity you'll need.

The problem for me is I tell myself " some day I might build XYZ with 22" wide exoticaunobtanium" and of course it's fine to think that way. Don't get me wrong it is TOTALLY possible one of us could be more famous than George Nakashima. I bet George didn't start with a 24" jointer. The wide jointers actually feel out of favor after the Straitoplane came on the scene.



This may help http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=106780

I made my living woodworking for many years.

I started with no money and a bad case of "cast iron fever" in 1969. That was before any quality Asian machines were on the scene.

Now I have a hobby shop, lot's of money and shop space.

What I eventually learned was to keep it simple. It seems like a huge machine is needed to get the job done right. It is very satisfying to mill large wide boards,but depending on what you make,it's rarely done.

For me I don't like machine maintainence and sharpening. I straight line all my rough stock on the table saw with a sled. It gives a glue joint edge on long stock without getting tired holding up long boards feeding a jointer.
I really don't need a jointer.

I got a deal on some rough exotic slabs 12" wide and 12' long. It was all dead straight but rough. I got a bid of $ 400 to plane it. I bought a cheap planer and it did great job flattening both faces.

A cheaper Straitoplane or copy would be interesting.

[glenn bradley]

I had a 6" and kept hitting the wall. So much so that I just sold it and used a planer sled while i saved up. I bought an 8" spiral and have been very happy. I've only used the sled twice so far since buying the 8" several months ago.

[Steve Clardy]

Seldom. In fact I cannot remember the last time I had to face flatten a board.:confused:
I went with a 8" jointer, because I needed the bed length, not the width.

[Peter Scoma]

My 6" grizzly is limiting but I dont think an 8" would make life much easier either. I spent the morning flattening some 18+ wide 8/4 poplar that would have been difficult on anything less than a monster 24 incher.

As an aside, I was at Hearne Hardwoods last week and saw the largest joiner I've ever seen in person or in pics. It had to be at least 24 inches. Went well with their 37" planer.

PS

[Andy Pratt]

Fred,

I know that it's possible to face joint a board larger than your jointer width, but I think we would all agree it's certainly not something you want to be doing all the time. While it's a worthwhile thing to keep in mind for occasional projects, here are the issues I see with it for any sort of normal use:

1. If you are using a pork-chop style guard you have to remove it to do this, reducing safety and increasing time spent

2. Unless you are working with the same width stock, or keep adjusting your fence, you're going to have some boards that this is harder on than others. If you do a 6" pass on an 8" board, you now have only a 2" surface to joint, with 6" of dead-weight leverage trying to keep you from doing it correctly. The only alternative is to move the fence to 4" or so for the 8" boards and back to 6" for the 6" or 12" boards, either way you've still got some leverage on the already jointed side to contend with.

3. If your jointing technique isn't perfect or you're working on a truly messed up board, you can potentially make any errors worse, as you magnify them by flipping the board around.

I know that planing after this reduces some of the issues I have mentioned, but I personally want my face jointing to be perfect, as every other function is based off the trueness of that first face. I'm not experienced at doing wide boards on a narrow jointer, so maybe I have missed something. From what I know, it seems like a great thing on occasion, but nothing we should rely on as standard practice.

Thanks,
Andy

[Alan Frazier]

I have a 8'' Inca jointer/planer and I can think of a bunch of times I've had to face joint boards over 6'' so far I've never had a need for more than 8'' though. It depends on what kind and size of work you plan on doing.

[Tom Hintz]

I rarely have boards over 6" wide. In fact, I sold my 8" jointer and went back to a better 6" (Powermatic 54HH, helical head) and am very happy with it and its capacity. My shop is easier to get around in also.

[Jon Grider]

I am glad that many others here are content with a 6" jointer and its' size is adequate for their work. I own a 6" and have found it too small for probably half the work I do. I do hand plane my wider boards, and though I enjoy the swoosh swoosh of a sharp plane slicing off high spots on a 12" wide board,I would really like a bigger jointer to save time. I was about a half inch away from buying an 8" jointer last year, but have decided to save up and look for a good used 12".

[Don Morris]

I had a 6" Jet for years and was pretty satisfied, but had to take pieces I really didn't want to rip to the local pro shop on occassion. Also, I had a heavy long piece of something (I can't remember the species), and when I got to the end, the Jet started to tip over. That's when I decided to get the 8" I have now. A long piece isn't going to tip over this beast, and I have more options when I go to select pieces for projects.

Don M

[Frank Drew]

Fred,

I know that it's possible to face joint a board larger than your jointer width, but I think we would all agree it's certainly not something you want to be doing all the time. I for one don't agree; I did it every time I had a board wider than my jointer that needed surfacing. For years.


1. If you are using a pork-chop style guard you have to remove it to do this, reducing safety and increasing time spent. Well, the whole point of the exercise is to save time over other methods of preparing stock wider than your jointer, and, anyway, it takes only a few seconds to loosen the bolt than holds the guard on; as for the safety concern, if you set the fence so that you're face jointing about half the board's width each pass I don't see how that's any more dangerous than face jointing a 6" board on a 6" jointer with the guard in place. In what way does my method leave the operator more at risk (and it's not really "my" method since it's widely done in professional shops that don't have extra wide jointers)?

I would never recommend using a technique one is uncomfortble with -- that's a great way to get hurt. But I worked safely, and felt quite comfortable with that procecure, and was entirely satisfied with the results after final surface planing (the face planed surface off the jointer was never the finish surface, it only had to be flat enough to go face down on the planer bed and produce a true upper face.)

[Robert LaPlaca]

Actually I think this calls upon the 'it depends rule'. If you primarily build furniture, a wide jointer is very useful. If you primarily build cabinetry, a wide jointer might not be so necessary, as face frames and rails and styles are not usually very wide.

I personally want to use the widest lumber that I can find for the type of furniture that I build..So the 16" capacity of my MM FS-41 is indispensable..

[Curt Harms]

I had a 6" jointer and it worked well. The shortcoming showed up when i started to buy rough stock. I have a sawmill just up the road that regularly has stock wider than 6" and face jointing is a necessary first step with this stock. If you're able to get straight S3S stock that stays straight face jointing may not be necessary as Steve says. For me, a 12" combo has worked out well.

Curt

[Paul Ryan]

Rick,

There is really some good information on both sides of this argument. The common answer to "what jointer should I buy" is always buy the 8" your a fool if you buy a 6". That is a complete bogus answer. It all comes down to your personal situation. How much $ do you have to spend, how much room to you have, what kind of wood do you buy, and kind of products to you plan to produce.

Only you can answer these questions. I think if you read through this thread you will see what I mean. The biggest condition comes down to how much $ and what kind of wood do you buy. If you only plan on buying rough cut lumber than you are a fool to buy anything less than a 8" unless you can't afford one. And if you can afford it now how long before you could afford the extra 2". If you are like me and you prefer the s2s lumber and don't mind spending the extra .10 a br ft. Then a 6" with a good lenth bed will suit you just fine for many years. I bought a jet years ago for a really good price the price has double since I bought it. It has suited me just fine and I don't plan on replacing it anytime soon. It has done everything I have wanted and then some. But think about what you are going to ask of the jointer.

I think other than size right now if we are taling new. I would worry more about the extra cost between knives and helical heads. Even though most experts think the knives give a better cut, the carbide tips are sooooooooo much easier. You can turn them if they get nicked, and you don't have to replace all of them at one shot, they are much easier to align, and they last longer.

[Jeff Mohr]

My father in law has a 16" planer/jointer combo. It is the only jointer I've ever known and I LOVE the thing. Don't know if I would want to go to a 6" but if I had to by my own I'd have to go with a 2"! ;) And I'd have to refine my technique to do what some of you above are talking about with a smaller jointer.

It is nice to use the jointer to get that cutting board, serving tray, or other large items real flat, real easy. I guess a drum sander would do but I don't (and the FIL doesn't) have one of those.

[Chip Lindley]

Rick, once-upon-a-time, I straight-edged a 20ft long piece of 4/4 x 6" red oak on that little 32" bed Milwaukee/Delta!! That was THE extreme! A board that long will have its own flex and not necessisarily be *straight-edge* straight, as say, an 8' board! It was plenty straight enough to run thru the shaper to make a special piece of backspash trim in one length for a custom kitchen remodel.

Others in this thread continue to mention the need to face-joint wide stock without pre-ripping! If they are building pieces which require wide boards, so be it! But, I argue that in all practicality, face-jointing a board wider than absolutely needed is usually wasteful. Any twist, or cup is magnified across the entire width, and must all be jointed flat. Pre-ripping to a narrow width increases the usability of stock which would otherwise end up being planed too thin, to compensate for twist or cup across a broad width.

[Rod Sheridan]

My father in law has a 16" planer/jointer combo. It is the only jointer I've ever known and I LOVE the thing. Don't know if I would want to go to a 6" but if I had to by my own I'd have to go with a 2"! ;) And I'd have to refine my technique to do what some of you above are talking about with a smaller jointer.

It is nice to use the jointer to get that cutting board, serving tray, or other large items real flat, real easy. I guess a drum sander would do but I don't (and the FIL doesn't) have one of those.

Jeff, drum sanders, like planers make objects parallel, not flat.

Any FIL with a 16" combo must be a great FIL indeed!

Regards, Rod.

[Anthony Whitesell]

I don't know what percentage of the time I need more than 6". But the first project piece (oposed to scrap test piece) that I jointer was 7 3/4" wide. I was sure glad I got the 8" wide G0490.

On advantage of the wider jointer is that the fence can be pulled forward so a different section of the blade sees some wear. Seems kind of a waste to send a 8 or 10 inch long blade for sharpening when only the back 3-4 inches is dull.

[Jeff Mohr]

Jeff, drum sanders, like planers make objects parallel, not flat.

Any FIL with a 16" combo must be a great FIL indeed!

Regards, Rod.

Rod,

Thanks for the correction and yes.....my FIL has a very nice shop which I have complete access to all the tools. VERY NICE indeed!

[Frank Drew]

Others in this thread continue to mention the need to face-joint wide stock without pre-ripping! If they are building pieces which require wide boards, so be it!

Chip, I'd keep a board full width if the job called for it, and for many applications I think the job calls for it -- table tops, door panels and other panelling, etc.. To my eye, fewer wide boards almost always look better than glue-ups of many more narrow ones, and if possible I'd avoid pre-ripping because the pattern can be interrupted, a bit, by that 1/"8-3/16" of wood lost to the saw, jointer, etc.

[C Scott McDonald]

I have a 6" PM 54HH and love it. That said I dearly wish I got an 8". As your skills increase and you move on to more complex projects you will wish you got he 8". Been there :(

Scott

[Bruce Wrenn]

Read the article in current issue of FWW on jointing boards wider than your jointer. I have used this method ever since I first got my 6" jointer. I can do 9-10 inch boards with no problem. Just put a "shim" on the in feed table, make sure that "shim," and knives align with the rabbeting ledge. Put a shim under jointed area, and run it through the planer. When this side is flat, turn board over, remove shim, and plane second side parrallel to first.

[Bryan Hosford]

at least 50%, my average board size is over 8". I moved up to a JJP-12. no more cutting boards down to fit.

[Rick Fisher]

This evening, I struggled with flattening some 10" wide Sapeli. I have a 6" jointer.

I cursed that jointer more than once for being too small.

I have had it for 6-7 years and only in the last couple years have I began to wish for a bigger machine.

I have been shopping for a good used 12" but havent found it. I wont bother going 8", just jump to 12" and be done with it.

[David Winer]

... I am just curious what percent of time would you say you are actually needing more than a 6" capacity on your jointer?
This question can be thought of as a generalized one--not just for jointers. Most of our woodworking tools are supposedly useful for different projects as they come up. Since we don't know what the future may bring, I would say that the more flexible the better. But of course, we have those pesky budget limitations to deal with.

[Jim Becker]

Nearly 100% of the time I need more than a 6" jointer can deliver because I flatten all my lumber by face jointing. 8" wouldn't be enough for most of the wood I use as I prefer wide lumber and buy it that way. The wider jointer surface also allows me to skew the workpiece for a shearing cut which comes in handy particularly with figured wood.

I rarely edge joint since getting my sliding saw, preferring instead to straight-line on that tool with the workpiece clamped down. It's glue ready off the saw and has none of the ripples that are typical of a jointed edge.

Oh, I use a 350mm (~14") jointer/planer combo machine.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I wouldn't have thought I needed one till after I got used to one. Now, I don't know how to get out of bed without first using my 12" jointer.