Outside shop DC??

[Curt Taylor]

OK guys, I'm thinking of putting a DC just outside of my shop. It would be located in a seperate small building using a 6' pipe as my main lead into the shop. I'd like to run the DC without any filters or bags. Has anyone tried this and if so what was the effect on the DC without the restriction of catch bags or filters? I don't see a downside, but?? Also, does anyone have experience with or knowledge about Bridgewood DC's? Thanks for any help.

[Steve Kohn]

Is your shop heated or air conditioned? If so you are going to be pulling a lot of heated or cooled air out of the shop and exhausting it outside.

[Matt Meiser]

I have my cyclone inside my shop but vented outside. Someday I may get rid of the cyclone and just blow into a big drop box outside like Keith Outten is doing which would allow me to empty it with the tractor loader and give me back a wasted corner of my shop.

I'm sure I lose heat but the temperature in my shop doesn't instantly drop to the outside temperature when I run my DC or anything remotely close. Maybe I use mine different but it isn't running for hours on end. The furnace quickly rewarms any cold air and all the mass in the shop is still warm too. Same goes for when I am running the A/C in the summer. Now my 24" exhaust fan is a different story...

[Curt Taylor]

Thanks for the replys. Guess I have pretty much the same idea as you Matt. I'd like to get away from hauling bags outta the shop.
Does anyone have any feed back on the Bridgewood DC's?

[David G Baker]

Curt,
With your living in cold country and drawing warm shop air through outside cold temps you could get some condensation issues. Just a thought.

[Keith Outten]

The heat and air conditionaing loss is insignificant in many areas of the country. I live in Eastern Virginia and even in the winter here the loss of so much air that is dumped directly outside into my chiip box isn't much of a problem. The heat im my shop isn't really in the air, it is in the concrete slab,the steel equipment, the walls and ceiling, etc. At 30 degrees F I can run my dust collector for three hours continuously while my CNC router is operating with very little effect on my shop temperature. I heat and air condition my shop with a heat pump, actually my shop office upstairs is heated and air conditioned I just installed a couple of vents in the shop downstairs that I can open when the need arizes. Since I don't have any return air vent in my shop I don't consider it to be heated space technically. My shop temps are almost always above 65 degrees in the winter and rarely warmer that 80 degrees in the summer.

I don't have any bags or filters, the DC exhaust vents right through the wall through a 48" long 4" diameter PVC pipe to a chip box outside. The performance of my 16 year old Grizzly 1.5 HP DC is probably what you would expect from a 3HP unit since there is zero restriction in the air flow.

I have almost an identical system setup at CNU in the shop there using nothing but a 2 HP inexpensive Harbor Freight DC that blows through the wall into the plywood box that the ShopBot shipped in and I only empty the box once per year :)

If you live in an area that experiences -30 degree temperatures I doubt this setup is for you but if your temperatures are more moderate it is the killer setup and I feel sorry for those of you who have to put up with all the hassles of using bags and filters :(
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[Rod Sheridan]

[quote=Curt Taylor;1077799]Has anyone tried this and if so what was the effect on the DC without the restriction of catch bags or filters? I don't see a downside, but??

Hi Curt, if you don't exceed the motor current rating you're fine.

If you do, add some restriction to the system to drop the current to the rated value.

Oh, and add a finger guard to the discharge side of the blower.

regards, Rod.

[Curt Taylor]

Thanks Keith, thats the kind of info I'm looking for. I do agree with all who have voiced opinions of probable heat loss but that was considered before I posted the question. I think your idea Keith is what I'm looking. For the time the DC is actually running, I'm willing to sacriface alittle btu's to not have to continually empty a container. I'll throw another log on the fire. I was more concerned with the effects of running a DC this way and you have answered that question. It seemed to me that it would only add to the efficiency of the DC.
Rod - also good information and I'll keep an eye on the motor load. These are the kind of things I'm concerned with.
Anyone have any pros or cons on the Bridgewood DC's?
Thanks again all,

[Rick Hubbard]

Is your shop heated or air conditioned? If so you are going to be pulling a lot of heated or cooled air out of the shop and exhausting it outside.

FWIW I moved my dc collection bag to an outside "closet" last fall and when I did I set up a return air vent back into my shop. We had several minus 30 degree days this winter and I discovered I had a lot more cold air RETURNING into the shop (through the air return vent) than I had warm air LEAVING the shop, so I closed off the vent all together. I'm not sure how much heated air I wasted or what it cost me, but I do know it was a heck of a lot warmer in the shop with the vent closed off. And at -38F thats a plus!!

[Pete Shermet]

One important thing to consider when discharging outside is the negative pressure it will create inside the building, If you have a gas furnace, water heater, or any other heating appliance fire place etc you must provide make up air otherwise you run a great risk of drawing Carbon Monoxide down the chimneys and you just won't know untill it's too late unless you have a carbon monoxide detector. In order to minimize energy loss you'll probably have to install and air to air heat exchanger.
http://www.venmarces.com/products/

Best Regards
Pete

[Curt Taylor]

Good point Pete. Will take thaqt into consideration.

[Keith Outten]

Curt,

My DC has been running without any flow restriction for over 16 years and it still runs great today, if the motor has been damaged I can't tell :)

Pete's warning about carbon monoxide is worthy of serious consideration. I don't have any appliances in my workshop that have an open flame or combustion so it isn't a concern. Even if I did my workshop isn't that air tight, I have three full size garage doors and they are known to leak a little bit :)
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[Justin R Thomas]

Curt,

My DC has been running without any flow restriction for over 16 years and it still runs great today, if the motor has been damaged I can't tell :)

Pete's warning about carbon monoxide is worthy of serious consideration. I don't have any appliances in my workshop that have an open flame or combustion so it isn't a concern. Even if I did my workshop isn't that air tight, I have three full size garage doors and they are known to leak a little bit :)
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Keith,
Any chance you could post a picture of your DC set up? I'm interested in seeing how you built the chip box.

[Steve Clardy]

My 4hp DC has always been outside.
I've never noticed a heat loss, though I heat with a very large woodshove.

I never could grasp the idea of dumping bags on a DC.

[David Giles]

Curt, I converted a Jet 1100CK DC to outside venting without using any canisters or bags. 6" duct is run to all equipment including the connection. That really increased the air flow. Removing the canister further increased air flow.

Now the down sides. The blower is mounted outside of a 6x6x3 plastic shed. At first, I tried to just blow the dust and chips into the shed, but the air flow was too strong. It swept up the dust and covered the yard. So I located the separator is located inside the shed. That doesn't help as much as you think. I still needs a lower bag to keep from spewing dust all over. Not enough settling time. Just attaching a bag isn't enough. The higher air flow creates a huge cyclone in the bag and pulls the dust out as fast as it goes in. Adding Phil Thein's baffle helps considerably. It's still a PITA to change bags.

Overall, the system operation is acceptable, but not great. Should have just installed a cyclone from the start, though.

[David Cramer]

Slightly confused and will probably give quite a few of you a laugh, but oh well:), here it goes.

If you have a Cyclone Dust Collector and it collects on the bottom into a drum, then it also has the filter that branches off of the top and comes down off of an elbow to get the minute dust that doesn't drop into the cannister below. Correct?

So are you gentleman talking about having the filter part go outside the wall and keeping the dust collector unit inside? Or are both outside in a closet and there is no cannister that is attached at the bottom, but instead a dust bin box that it falls into or it just goes to the ground and floats around if you don't have neighbors nearby? Correct?

In addition there would be no need for a filter, because the dust is minute and it would just fall down courtesy of Mr. Newton. Seriously, I know that I've read where woodworkers put their cyclones outside, but without anything on the bottom or no filter on the side? I remember a fella named Lou Sansone (sorry if I butchered your name, going by memory) had a picture of his painted maroon or red and he lives in Maine or Vermont area. Not sure if his setup is the same as what's being asked.

A picture of what the original poster is asking for would truly help. Any takers?

David

[keith ouellette]

until my DC broke I had one in a closet in back of my shop. I used the filter but Put the motor and fan on a shelf near the ceiling so I could run my duct up at the ceiling level.

One thing I can recommend is don't bother with Penn state.

[Keith Outten]

Keith,
Any chance you could post a picture of your DC set up? I'm interested in seeing how you built the chip box.

Justin,

Below is the Harbor Freight DC unit installed at CNU. The outlet pipe coming off the top is about 48" long straight through the back wall and into the chip box outside.

The chip box is the box the ShopBot CNC router was shipped in, I painted it white and installed four speed clips so I could remove the top to empty the box. It is about eight feet long and 3 feet wide. You can see the 6" diameter dryer vent I installed on the side of the box. I have a piece of air conditioning filter material on the inside attached to the end of the dryer vent pipe. Just about 25 feet from the truck bumper is a walking path students use to get from a housing area to the main University, they don't have a clue what the box is or what it is for :)

This is a very inexpensive dust collection system that works incredibly well. I NEVER have to stop to empty a bag or worry if the system is full. I dump the box in the fall transferring the chips and dust into 30 gallon trash cans with a plastic coal shovel and I pick a nice day. It took me about an hour last fall to dump the box.

I can't take pictures of the chip box in my workshop at home just yet. I am in the process converting the old chip box which is plywood to a 3000 gallon steel tank. I am building a welded frame that will be covered with sheet metal and installed on the end of the new tank that will house my dust collector outside. This will remove the noise from the shop....I'm gonna love the piece and quiet :) Oh, I expect that it will be five years before I have to empty my new steel chip box :)
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