Using Coffee in Shellac

[Rick Lucrezi]

I have been reading about coloring shellac, and it says a coloring agent of 1.5 oz per quart is exceptible. I was wondering about steeping coffee in DNA and then using that brew to reduce the Shellac. Anyone try this? The only bad thing I can think of is the acidity to the coffee.

[Larry Fox]

It might also smell forever. I would think that a TransTint brew would be a better choice. Also, if you brew up a batch of colored DNA there is no really good way to adjust the color without altering the cut.

[glenn bradley]

I used tinted shellac recently and here's what I learned; build your film with un-tinted shellac and use your tinted mix for the final coat. After about four coats the finish looked milky due to the suspended tint. It really hid the figure.

I rubbed it all off with DNA and did it over. No harm, no foul other than lost time and effort. I should have known better because I do my satin clear coats the same way; gloss for all but the final satin coat.

[Rick Lucrezi]

It might also smell forever. I would think that a TransTint brew would be a better choice. Also, if you brew up a batch of colored DNA there is no really good way to adjust the color without altering the cut.

The smell could be good. I love the smell of coffee. Funny how it never taste the way it smells. What I am doing is trying to darken the shellac for a floor. All my trim and wainscot are done in amber. I thinned down the Zinser Amber to a 2lb or a 1 part DNA to 1 part from the can. I put 1 coat of this on the wainscot and 3 coats on the trim plus a coat of 3lb straight from the can on the trim. I plan to put a couple coats of the clear over it all when I am done. So now the floor needs to be darker still then the trim and unless I want to put 6 or 7 coats on (which I dont) I need to tint. I just thought the coffee idea was cool and great for future conversation at the bar (which I have yet to build).

Any idea how to get the color I want with out the expense of trial and error? I want to keep the color is the same family, just darker.

[Prashun Patel]

Tinting the shellac is not the hard part. Getting the tint to disperse properly and evenly and to stay evenly distributed on your piece and not to fade or distort over time is the rub. Coffee may work fine, but IMHO, yr better off working with pure dyes. Plus, there's a lot of impurities and minerals that could adversely affect the stability of the color. Not saying it won't work, just that yr better off springing for a little Transtint; a 2oz bottle will lastya bigtime.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,
You're better off using the coffee as a dye on the raw wood first, then top coating with a clear.

As mentioned above, getting the color to disperse and stay dispersed is the difficult part.
Most universal colorants use ethylene glycol to emulsify the colorants so they will disperse evenly and stay in suspension.
Usually the amount of colorant that can be added (the 1.5oz) is based on the products ability to resist being altered by the EG.

Too much and the product gets "ropey" (long string like materials form in the liquid) and will not cure.

Kind of gross but - an old, old painters "trick" to tone shellac was to use a mix of coffee, liquor (depending on the ethnic background - Slivowitz or Cognac) and urine.
Many a painter in the 50's left a little of themselves behind on the woodwork/kitchen cabinets of the post WWII building boom ;).

[Jason Roehl]

From what I know of many painters, the liquor and urine could be added in a pre-mixed form! :eek: :D

[Sue Wise]

Jeff Jewitt at Homestead Finishing has many different tints of darker shellac.

-Sue

[Rick Lucrezi]

Ok, thats a little too green for me. What the heck does the urine do. I almost feel like I am on a snipe hunt. Maybe thats why dogs pee on the floor, trying to mask the last guy who finished it.

[george wilson]

I advise against use of any vegetable dyes. They are usually prone to fading. A metallic salt type of dye will give the longest fade resistance.Find a supplier of archival quality dyes from a museum conservation supplier. I have used Orasol dyes for many years. The furniture conservation shop in Colonial Williamsburg uses them. They are German dyes originally made for the automotive industry. A problem is that some of the dyes dissolve in water,some in alcohol,some in oil. Oil is o.k. for lacquer. Some dissolve in anything. I've tested all of mine,and written on the jars what they dissolve in.

[Rick Lucrezi]

Well the decision is made. We found a gallon of stain we like. We made some test boards and like the results. Gonna be Provincial. Stain was half off 15 bucks a gallon.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,

Ok, thats a little too green for me. What the heck does the urine do
- Porta - Potties weren't on jobsites,, way back when.

- Plumbing fixtures in new construction were off limits to any of the tradesmen. Especially the painters, since they were the last ones in/on the site.

- Basements back then didn't have sump pumps.

- What goes in (coffee/booze) must come out at some point.

- Wall paints were generally all oil based (no water based material in those days). Water (urine) and oil don't mix.

- Slivowitz or Cognac & coffee & an Easter European diet, produces a lot of ammonia in the urine. Ammonia cuts shellac & unlike denatured alcohol - it's a free byproduct of the coffee breaks & lunch.
(If you've never had thick slabs of home made black bread, w/giant slices of raw onion & fresh garden tomatoes you've never lived! <--typical Hungarian painter's sandwich. - AKA Eastern European Diet.
The coffee/booze mix - let's just say I was warned the very first day on the job to never, I repeat, never, take up any of the ethnic painter's offer of a cup of hot Joe. Most of them made their own hooch. No telling what was in it.)

- Natural shellac has a deep red cast. <-Shellac dye at one time was the only thing kept. The resin - which years later became the shellac finish in use today, was discarded.
Red & yellow = orange.
Orange & the dark green/black cast of coffee produces a very warm rich brown tone.

Anymore, I use egg yolk for the yellow whenever I need to match the ~ 50 year old orange shellac found in some of the tract houses.

Like I said - kinda gross - but there were a lot of practical reasons for those guys doing it. It was also a far different time back then/different work ethic.