Adobe Illustrator Pantone Colors

[Scott Shepherd]

I'm new to Illustrator (CS4). Had it installed a few days now and I'm working on a few things. It's very different than anything I have used before and it seems to be full of tips and techniques that are buried in places I don't know exist.

I'm specifically looking for a way to identify pre-existing pantone colors. I have documents that have specific colors on them, yet all I ever get is the CMYK values (or RGB). I recently was working with a designer and he had a little box opened up and it said "Pantone" at the title. He had the eyedropper tool and when he hovered over the color in the drawing, it showed him the pantone equivalant.

For the life of me, I can't find anything like that and I don't know enough about it to know if it's some plug-in or something else.

Any ideas?

[David G Baker]

Scott,
Pantone colors may have to be imported from Pantone which is a separate company. Just a guess on my part from doing a few Googles.
I have CS4 but haven't started the learning curve yet, still using an ancient version that I am vaguely familiar with.

[Scott Shepherd]

Oh, there's a swatch of all the pantone colors, and I can easily pick any of those. So if I am creating it from scratch, it's easy for me to do, but if I'm looking at an existing document, then I can't figure out how to identify the pantone color that was used. All I can seem to pull up is the CMYK values, which isn't do me any good at the moment. I'm having some issues with some print work someone's doing and I need to be able to tell them what pantone color the color is so they can match it against their chips.

Probably the backward way of doing it, but I do need to know the values.

[Eric DeSilva]

I seem to recall support for "pantone" colors in Photoshop--sadly not familiar with Illustrator--but unless your monitor is calibrated, not sure you are going to be happy with the match... I thought the point of pantone was using the swatches to get something that was a fixed reference...

[Tim Morton]

Oh, there's a swatch of all the pantone colors, and I can easily pick any of those. So if I am creating it from scratch, it's easy for me to do, but if I'm looking at an existing document, then I can't figure out how to identify the pantone color that was used. All I can seem to pull up is the CMYK values, which isn't do me any good at the moment. I'm having some issues with some print work someone's doing and I need to be able to tell them what pantone color the color is so they can match it against their chips.

Probably the backward way of doing it, but I do need to know the values.

Are you 100% sure the color created as a pantone color? if you click on a color in your file and go over to the tool bar you will see your fill and stroke boxes. Double click on the box that is full of color...by defalut it is on the left. This will bring up your color picker. If it is a pantone color it will display the pantone value. If it was just created as a cmyk then it will show up as cmyk values. You can then find yourself a pantone "book" that will show you how that color compares to a pantone "spot" color. Gnerally this is done in the reverse....you pick a pantone color and view it in the book to see how it will print in CMYK to determine if you need to pay extra for a spot color match.

Short answer make sure this color was created as a pantone color to begin with...if you do not have access to this conversion book, PM pm me your email address and the cmyk color and i will look at my book in the morning at work. I'm surprised your printer can't tell from the CMYK values.. Is he printing this color in CMYK or as a spot color?

As to finding your magic "pantone" window...i am going to gues that he had a plug in for Illustrator, but let me confirm with my illustrator guru in the mornign and maybe he knows if that comes with CS4. I do not see anythign like that in CS3.

[Scott Shepherd]

Thanks Tim, I do have the Pantone chart thing, so I can look at that. Yes, there's some confusion, mainly on my end, I guess. It was created in InDesign with a Pantone color. It was sent to me as a pdf. I opened the pdf in Illustrator, which was set at CMYK as a default. The printer's printer is a RGB machine. So I'm just trying to make sure I give them the right thing for their machine. When they converted it from CMYK to RGB, it changed hues, so it wasn't right. I'm just trying to understand it all and figure it all out so I can give them what they need to get me what I need.

[Tim Morton]

Thanks Tim, I do have the Pantone chart thing, so I can look at that. Yes, there's some confusion, mainly on my end, I guess. It was created in InDesign with a Pantone color. It was sent to me as a pdf. I opened the pdf in Illustrator, which was set at CMYK as a default. The printer's printer is a RGB machine. So I'm just trying to make sure I give them the right thing for their machine. When they converted it from CMYK to RGB, it changed hues, so it wasn't right. I'm just trying to understand it all and figure it all out so I can give them what they need to get me what I need.

when a printer tells me that they have an RGB printer that is a HUGE red flag that they might not know what they are doing. Do you know what printer they are using? I have been in the print business for a LONG time, and i cannot name you a single RGB printer....tread lightly and don't let them give you somethig you don't want and then try and blame it on you:D

[Scott Shepherd]

They have a Canon and a HP, both wide format. I've used them for a little while now with not much of a problem. I believe they tell me the canon prefers RGB and the HP does better with CMYK.

To be honest, I don't know. I understand the differences somewhat, but it's all still a bit fuzzy at times.

[Scott Shepherd]

Tim, as I was driving home from work, it hit me. I mis-stated that comment. Both their printers will do CMYK. I believe they said that one does a better job with RGB files and one does a better job with CMYK files, but both could do either. My mistake in the way I said that.

[Tim Morton]

If you look at any inkjust printer you will see that they all have cmyk ink sets in them and every file they print MUST be converted to CMYK in order for the ink to go onto the paper. The printer itself has no clue what RGB (red green blue) is...it does know what cmyk is. The question is how is the conversion to cmyk done.

How the conversion to CMYK is done, where things can go wrong...I would NEVER send an rgb file to a print house because them you are leaving it up to them to make the conversion...and it sounds like the printer you are using is letting his printer do it...that may work for him, but ask him if he gets better results from a supplied cmyk file or a supplied rgb file, and then ask him how he handles the conversion to cmyk.

So here is whats happening to the file...it starts as a pantone, and gets saved as a PDF....incorrectly i am guesing because it is possble to save a PDF out of indesign and preseve spot colors (pantones).

So then you open the PDF in illustrator and the pantones are gone, and you have a cmyk .eps file, whch you then go over to color mode and switch to RGB and save and send to the printer. He then opens the file and either converts it back to CMYK and who knows how his program is handling this conversion....OR he is prining the file over as an RGB and the wide format printer is converting it to cmyk before printing.

I can't imagine why the colors don't match the pantone book:D

I also asked my Illustrator expert if he is aware of a way for you to mouse over a cmyk color and have a box open that will show you a pantone value. He said no...and agreed that it must be a plug-in.

Can your printer match a pantone color? If so why not just convert the cmyk color back to the pantone that was in the original indd file before giving it to the printer? And ask the printer if he would prefer a cmyk file to an rgb file, especially since the file originated as a cmyk.

[Scott Shepherd]

Thanks a lot Tim, color kicks my butt for exactly those reasons. I have read a lot of forums on color and how it's all dealt with (not that I follow it all!), so I completely understand what you said and it's exactly the steps I haven't been able to solve myself. I know the starting color, but once you run it through pdf, it's something else. From that point I have it, and I think that's where I'm coming into it and trying to figure out how to make sure the color is the right one.

What you said makes perfect sense. Yes, I can give them the pantone color and they will match it. I just thought I could skip that step by giving them something I could confirm as being correct and we'd be all good. Sounds like no matter what, if I want a pantone color, then I need to make it that color and then tell them what the color is. I guess that's why a lot of graphic artist add the little color swatch box with the pantone colors off to the side for reference!

Illustrator is kicking my butt right now. Only 5 days into it, and I feel like I just went from 1st grade to a college level class. BC Powder stock should be rising soon :) SOOOOOOOO complex (and so powerful)!

I can't wait to get comfortable with drawing in it. It really does some amazing things.

Thanks for your help Tim, I really appreciate the explanations, it helped me understand one more piece in this puzzle.