Why don't bandsaw makers put a vernier on the table

[Bill Wyko]

Other than the Grizzly, I can't seem to find a bandsaw with a vernier to tilt the table. At least in a reasonable price. That, along with the fact that Griz makes a very nice bandsaw, is the deciding factor. The days of bump and check are gone, can someone wake up the Mfgs.:p

[guy knight]

give me my bump and check on my mm20 over grizz's table but it would be nice if they did

[Danny Burns]

Go with a tilt box and zero it on the blade, and then measure the tilt on the table, and it will be more accurate, since you are measuring the table to the blade, rather than the table to the rest of the machine.

[Chris Padilla]

Well, the MM20 has a bolt that you can slowly twist up to dial things in but you still gotta check it with a good square.

[Eric Gustafson]

Go with a tilt box and zero it on the blade, and then measure the tilt on the table, and it will be more accurate, since you are measuring the table to the blade, rather than the table to the rest of the machine.

Even with a tilt box, you have to bump and check to set the angle. What Bill is talking about it is the ease of "dialing it in" with a vernier.

[Myk Rian]

I have yet to see a vernier that reads correctly anyway. Band saws, table saws, etc. None seem to track right. I use my Wixey for everything.

[Pete Bradley]

Are you talking about a vernier or just a tilt gauge? The table stop should be set so the table is perpendicular to the band and the gauge to read zero in that position. From there, a scale in degrees is plenty accurate enough for a band saw.

Pete

[Eric Gustafson]

I have yet to see a vernier that reads correctly anyway. Band saws, table saws, etc. None seem to track right. I use my Wixey for everything.

Apparently, noone undestands what Bill meant by "vernier." Grizzly has a "Micro adjusting geared table tilting mechanism" aka vernier. It aids in positioning table tilt in small increments. A nice feature, btw.

[John Bailey]

I believe he is talking about a micro adjustment that Grizzly has on their better and bigger bandsaws. The feature lets you easily make micro adjustments. To be accurate you still have to use some measuring device, but it makes it easier to just "screw" the table into the right position. It's the same as raising and lowering the upper guides. On better machines you can use some kind of crank. On the smaller machines you have to "fiddle" with it while you measure. I would think it's a great device to have, although I've never had either the upper guard crank or the micro adjustment on the table. Wish I did.

John

[Bill Wyko]

I'm talking about setting my Wixley on the table and being able to turn a knob to adjust the table. No bumping anything. I don't have the ability to fint tune a bump from a 12th to a 10th degree every time. I want to set it once and keep working. Plus it's repeatable with one set and forget.:D

[Chris Padilla]

If anyone is so inclined and just a bit clever, a high tpi bolt could be mounted at one end of the table (or under it) to allow microadjustments be made. A very simple one would only allow adjustments one direction but that should be fine and work well.

[Pete Bradley]

I don't have the ability to fine tune a bump from a 12th to a 10th degree every time. How do you zero the wixey to a 10th of a degree? (note: zeroing to the table at the 0 degree stop is not the right answer) Do you think you'll be able to notice the difference in results of a 10th of a degree? What are you trying to make?

Pete

[John Hedges]

Is this what your talking about. It is a picture of my Agazzani B-20. If you look to the right of the locking lever there is an adjuster you put a large Allen Wrench into and adjust with. Very handy, but I don't think I'd base a buying decision on it, especially with how infrequently I adjust my table.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/hedgehog55/bandsaw/TrunnionCradle-A-1.jpg?t=1236720222

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/hedgehog55/bandsaw/TrunnionCradle-B.jpg?t=1236720251

[Chip Lindley]

I Don't Get Out Much! But, IMO, the term *vernier* is suffering misuse in the context in which it is being used! The gear-and-cog for fine adjustment of the saw table should be termed *Fine Adjustment Rack and Pinion*! For an understanding of what a true vernier scale IS, check out this site: http://www.tpub.com/math1/7e.htm

Vernier scales allow readings to be taken of *fractions* of .001" (or metric). What we see above on the Agazzani is only a protractor with a pointer. There is no true verner scale to find an exact reading between degree marks. Although the gear drive does help fine-adjust the table (without bumping), all adjustments are by *eye* and depend on an individual's perception of what *RIGHT ON* really is, although an exact 90 degree reference may have been set with a precision square.

[Chris Padilla]

Very nice, John! I like that adjustment a lot over my MM20 but as some have said, one doesn't need to adjust the table all that much.

[Bill Wyko]

Is this what your talking about. It is a picture of my Agazzani B-20. If you look to the right of the locking lever there is an adjuster you put a large Allen Wrench into and adjust with. Very handy, but I don't think I'd base a buying decision on it, especially with how infrequently I adjust my table.


Thanks John, that's exactly what I'm talking about. The use of this feature depends on the kind of work a person does. I do dovetails and make my own veneers so it would be very handy. Put the Wixley on the blade, put it on the table, zero it in and you have the same accuracy you have with a table saw. end of story. At what point is bump and check a better way, just curious? The Grizzly BS is a beautiful machine. Built better than many others in the same price range and you get the adjustability of the vernier. all things pretty much equal, this feature puts it over the top.

[Rod Sheridan]

Other than the Grizzly, I can't seem to find a bandsaw with a vernier to tilt the table. At least in a reasonable price. That, along with the fact that Griz makes a very nice bandsaw, is the deciding factor. The days of bump and check are gone, can someone wake up the Mfgs.:p

Hi Bill, I remember looking at a General International 17" saw a few years ago and it had a rack and pinion to tilt the table.

I've also seen it on old saws so I don't think it's anything new, just useful.

Regards, Rod.

[John Hedges]

I Don't Get Out Much! But, IMO, the term *vernier* is suffering misuse in the context in which it is being used! The gear-and-cog for fine adjustment of the saw table should be termed *Fine Adjustment Rack and Pinion*! For an understanding of what a true vernier scale IS, check out this site: http://www.tpub.com/math1/7e.htm

Vernier scales allow readings to be taken of *fractions* of .001" (or metric). What we see above on the Agazzani is only a protractor with a pointer. There is no true verner scale to find an exact reading between degree marks. Although the gear drive does help fine-adjust the table (without bumping), all adjustments are by *eye* and depend on an individual's perception of what *RIGHT ON* really is, although an exact 90 degree reference may have been set with a precision square.

Chip you are absolutely correct. I was just showing what I believed Bill was asking about, but a true vernier scale is much different. I have one on my Kreg Miter Gauge (if you click on this link and hover right below the handle it will allow you to play a clip on this feature.

http://www.kregtool.com/products/featurets/miter_featuret.html

Bill, I use the bandsaw for a lot of joinery since I got this saw as it's precision is incredible, I don't do dovetails on the BS though as I have a D4 for that, so that's probably why I don't use the tilt feature much. No offense to the Grizzly but the Agazzanis and MM's are in a whole nother league (as their price would suggest), after buying one I know why Sam Maloof swears by his, and I wouldn't trade it for the world, with or without the rack and pinion tilt.