Toxic Woods - Padauk & Others

[Brian Frances]

Hi Guys,
This weekend I spent a few hours preparing some Padauk wood for glue-up and I was doing some pretty heavy sanding- My sanding grit schedule was 120, 180, 220, 320, 0000 steel wool- so needless to say, there was dust everywhere! For the very first time my eyes started to itch like never before- as though the spring time pollen was in the air! This is day 2 and although the severity of the itching has subsided somewhat, I decided to do a little research and I thought I would share some results with the Creek.

http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/Tips_Archives/TP124_Toxic_Woods_files/TP124_Images/TOXIC%20WOODS%20CHART.pdf (http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/Tips_Archives/TP124_Toxic_Woods_files/TP124_Images/TOXIC%20WOODS%20CHART.pdf)

Please post your experiences and what you do to alleviate such dust problems. I am now considering a downdraft table to prevent this new issue of mine! http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Bill White]

No direct probs w/ padauk except the greasy dust. Don't try to wipe down the dusted areas with min. spts. DAMHIKT.
Sure does smell good though.
Bill :p

[Jess Wetherhold]

I have a pretty severe allergy with padauk and it sent me to the ER once. The oils act like poison ivy and I would wake the next day with a horrible rash on my face and neck that itched like crazy. My eyelids would also swell very badly. I ran into a fellow woodworker who experienced the same problems and his advice was to immediately wash your face with COLD water after working with it. Makes sense because hot water opens your pores allowing the oils into the skin. This did help but I had to stop using the wood due to respiratory problems. I also had to replace my dust collector because the oils,sawdust from it were trapped in the bags.

[Chris Tsutsui]

Another thing I should add is if you are drilling or using a hole saw and happen to be "burning" wood on accident. The resulting smoke fumes can be bad... Supposedly Ebony smoke is very toxic amongst other exotic woods according to my contractor friend who warned me about it.

I also never knew this, but the dust from grinding/sharpening a chisel can get into your lungs. This happened to me after a grinding session and I was coughing for several hours.

After that occasion I use good ventilation and wear a respirator when sharpening stuff on the grinding wheel... No coughing after that. :)

[David Keller NC]

"Please post your experiences and what you do to alleviate such dust problems. I am now considering a downdraft table to prevent this new issue of mine! http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon9.gif "

I think you're going to find that a downdraft table will not help at all. What you experienced is the classic symptoms of an immune reaction (ie., and allergic reaction). Allergic reactions to the compounds in tropical woods can range from mild irritation to anaphalactic shock, which is fatal unless you're lucky enough to have an adrenaline syringe close by and someone to administer it.

Moreover, these allergic sensitivities increase with repeated exposure - you don't "get used to it", and the amount necessary to provoke an immune response in infinitesimally tiny - just ask someone with peanut allergies.

It may now be too late after the first reaction, but what you need to do is stop sanding, period. You can easily prepare the surface for finishing with a hand plane and a scraper. Not only is it a lot less work, but it's a lot less risky to your health, especially when working tropical hardwoods.

[Dick Strauss]

The OTC drug Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) can be pretty effective in helping with allergic symptoms (as long as you know the side effects of it..sleepiness, raises blood pressure, etc). If you are allergic to bee stings, etc, Benadryl is also a good stopgap for times when you don't have access to an epinephrine shot.

I agree that you should try to avoid these woods if possible once you know you have an issue with them. You should also re-consider working with any woods in the same family. Take a look at Dalbergia which covers many different rosewoods...so if you know you are allergic to brazilian rosewood, you may want to be careful with ebony and cocobolo since they are part of the same family and may have the same active ingredient.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalbergia

The finer the dust from sanding, the more likely you are to have problems.
Finer dust = More surface area + more mobility = a larger allergen dose that is hard to control/confine.

Do not burn any woods that give you an allergic reaction! The oils can become airborne once exposed to fire. My sister once needed medical attention from burning wood covered in poison ivy.

Jim King is quite familiar with this subject and has done lots of research on this topic. PM him if you have any questions. He knows hundreds of times more than I do...

[Richard M. Wolfe]

For a lot of woods, the key word is "allergy". I have known of people who are allergic to the oils in cedar (eastern redcedar). Luckily for me I'm not as I work the stuff on an ongoing basis.....I just finished three solid days with it. Also luckily for me most people aren't as they like the cedar smell.

The only thing that got to me was some wood I got from the local lumberyard. The guy called it "African walnut" - don't know what it was. I sanded some and when I finished my head had a funny bloated feeling. But then for the next two weeks I had awful headaches. No more of that stuff for me, although the guy I work with said domestic walnut got to him. I've never worked padauk but I'm sure there are more things out there that would get to me.

I do eat peanuts, though. :)

[Dan Bowman]

I had a similar reaction to lacewood two weeks ago, with rash and small blisters on my face, neck and arms. Thank goodness I was wearing a face respirator at the time! I was on several steroids, systemic and topical, to get the swelling down. Most of the exposure came from the jointer, especially when the leading edge of the board first hit the blades. But now that I'm sensitized, I have to take precautions, including having an epi-pen in the shop just in case. I have a dust collector of course, and a ceiling mounted air filter, plus large fan for the door. I also just bought a Triton powered respirator to completely cover my head and neck (halloween costume is taken care of). And while I don't like wearing long sleeves, I will, with a tight band at the wrist to keep as much dust off my arms as possible. Regarding being sensitized, I suspect I'll find a number of woods cause problems now - I've already had milder reactions to sapele and quaruba. Now I just need to find a temporary polymer coating for my hands that will keep the irritant from my only uncovered skin.

[george wilson]

Richard,maybe that funny bloated feeling in your head was too much pride from the job you did!!:) Sorry,couldn't resist.

Any tropical wood is likely to be dangerous. Boxwood is carcinogenic. Everyone needs to take the time to read up on bad effects the materials you work with.

I got very sick from breathing too much lacquer fumes back in the 60's Pilonephritis(sp?)

Had a fever of 104. I do my best not to breathe it since that. You can get masks,by the way. I wear one when spraying. Make sure the filters are proper.

I do not advise steel wooling wood to smooth it. That only opens the pores in the wood,making them more obvious,and harder to fill.

[Lee Schierer]

Years ago I used to sand in my shop and the air would get thick with dust. So thick in fact it was difficult to see. Being older and somewhat more learned, I connected my ROS to my shop DC systems with a 1-1/4 and 2" shop vac hoses. I was able to take off the cannister on my PC ROS and wrap about 3 wraps of electrical tape around the outlet and the shop vac hose fits over it like a tight glove. I get almost no sawdust anywhere when I am sanding now, even when I use the coarser grits. I can sand all day and not have to empty the cannister either.

[Chris Tsutsui]

George, I thought that steel wool burnishes off the microscopic fibers of the wood? I'm talking #0000 steel wool.

Anyways, I'll keep that in mind.

You know at some convention show there was a booth that had this "Armor Lotion" type of product. You rub your hands in it like hand lotion then paint and chemicals don't stick to your hands and you can then wash your hands easier afterwards. I was skeptical of this so didn't buy it.

Instead I just buy a $6 box of 100 blue nitrile gloves.. Though I know it's not that good for the environment going through so many of them...

[Mike Cutler]

Brian

Different woods affect people in different manners. Padauk, for example causes me no problems, nor do most of the tropical hardwoods that are oily. Mahogany on the other hand makes the front of my face numb, like I've had a novacaine shot at the dentist. I don't work with mahogany because of this reaction.:(

If you have reaction to a specific type/family of woods. I'd suggest trying out other woods. Padauk is pretty though, and I wouldn't blame you one bit for trying to work through it.

[Brian Frances]

Mike,
I am hoping that this is the only wood that I have this reaction to. When I first saw this wood sitting on the shelf, it was love at first sight. This bright vivid orangee color is to-die-for (no pun intendedhttp://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon10.gif)! Now I am wondering how to get it out from everywhere- a good thing it is easy to see the red dust! I've worked with Goncalo Alves which is known to affect others but it didn't bother me at all. Now I have to strike Padauk off the wood list! http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon11.gif I am even considering replacing my dust collector... Now I am going to have to change ALL the filters... yikes!!

[Art Kelly]

I see from the referenced document that the toxicity of the paduak is NOT as a respiratory sensitizer.

But, if you think it might be affecting you, or if you are exposing yourself to other respiratory allergens/sensitizers, in my opinion a good respirator with a P-100 filter is recommended. Also, wear long sleeves and nitrile gloves if you can. That stuff sticks to sweaty skin and in my case (with walnut), eats my lunch.

See this: http://www.iaff.org/et/jobaid/SARSNEW/P100_Respirator.htm

Also, I see that a lot of vendors sell the paper "dust masks" for woodworking. A lot of workplaces prohibit their use for protection against respiratory pathogens/toxins. You could get some free time off if caught using one at my last employer (big aerospace), and that included the woodshop.

A good-fitting respirator is cheap insurance, especially as others have pointed out, a lot of these pathogens/toxins are "sensitizers," which means that they accumulate without causing problems for a length of time, then "spring." After that you will probably be reactive to that material for a long time. Happened to a friend of mine with Portland Cement. Had to give up a 10-year tilesetting career.

Be safe.

Art

[al ladd]

I get a mild itch behind my ears and on my forehead from moderate exposure to padauk. I don't use it much, but have been using it two or three times a year for twenty years, with the same results. i have excellent dust collection. the killer for me is Bolivian rosewood, or morado. It makes all my vertices itch, especially my "grand vertice", which also swells, (and I'm not bragging ....), and the effects last for nearly a week after exposure. Last time,( and the third time ever) I used it I tried to finish some work I had started with it , and took every precaution I knew about at the time, dressing in a full protective overall, wearing a vapor style cup resperator, and getting best possible dust collection. Same problem. Seemed as if small amounts of inhaled oil would do it. Luckily no other woods seems to effect me. It's all very quirky and different from person to person.

[george wilson]

I have a 4" flex hose drop down to my workbench from the dust collector. It has a gate on the end of it,and I could put on a scoop for sanding at the bench. I can put the hose wherever I need it on the bench. Beside the dust collector's filter is a 3 speed shuttered fan. I turn it on low when the DC is on.Anything that gets by the filter gets sucked out by the fan.

Maybe some of you who have these bad reactions should invest in a similar setup.

[Matt Ranum]

So far the only thing that gets to me is Walnut dust. I get a bad respiratory reaction from it if I breath the dust for an extended period. My Uncle who passed away this last year(an awesome woodworker) claims that Walnut dust gave him his Emphazima(spelling?), which BTW is what killed him.

This is part of the reason I am doing more with hand tools, to cut down on the fine dust.

[Alan Schwabacher]

Benadryl may help if you get allergic symptoms, but if you do take it, please don't use power tools. It may affect people differently, but my wife found that even 24 hrs after taking it, when it should have worn off, it affected her response times enough that she couldn't hit a tennis ball. She did not feel sleepy, and might not have noticed how slow her reflexes were if she hadn't been trying to play tennis.

[Wade Lippman]

Years ago I used to sand in my shop and the air would get thick with dust. So thick in fact it was difficult to see. Being older and somewhat more learned, I connected my ROS to my shop DC systems with a 1-1/4 and 2" shop vac hoses. I was able to take off the cannister on my PC ROS and wrap about 3 wraps of electrical tape around the outlet and the shop vac hose fits over it like a tight glove. I get almost no sawdust anywhere when I am sanding now, even when I use the coarser grits. I can sand all day and not have to empty the cannister either.

I think you will find a vacuum works better. A DC doesn't pull much through a 1 1/4" hose.
A Festool fitting fits my PC ROS and biscuit cutter perfectly. It also fits my Rigid 6" ROS; and obviously my Festools.