Which wide belt - Grizzly or Steel city

[Andy Pratt]

I would like to have a less time-consuming and frustrating sanding experience than my performax 16-32 provides, so I'm in the market for a small wide-belt, osscillating sander. The only two models that stand out to me based on their features and prices are the Steel city 55225 for $2250 and the Grizzly G9983 for $3550.

I don't intend to run compressed air piping through my shop, so I'm leaning heavily toward the steel city (grizzly requires air supply). I've heard that the 3 hp motor isn't regarded as enough power for it, but I haven't read any reviews from anyone who has used it. Any comments from SC users, or someone with a similiar machine?

I've read different things suggesting the sanders with the air hookup offer better performance and adjustment, I know virtually nothing about wide-belts, what is the advantage of the air supply?

While the air supply would be somewhat annoying to hook up for one machine, I would deal with it if it provided a major advantage and the tool was a dream come true. If it's just a little better than the SC one I'd rather not bother.

I'm sick of deflection in the open ended drum sander I'm currently using. Do the steel city or grizzly models address this adequately (possibly by another arm on the outboard side or just better construction)?

For reference, I will be using this mostly for finish sanding solid wood, thicknessing panels greater than 12", and sanding thin stock to final size.

I'd like to be able to take 1/32" of material off a 15" piece, per pass without bogging down, using 100 or 150 grit paper, is this a reasonable expectation with either of these machines?

Thanks,
Andy

[Scott T Smith]

Andy, I can't offer a comparison between the two, but I can state that I had a Grizzly G9983 15" open 5 HP widebelt sander for several years and was very pleased with it.

The compressed air is used for belt tensioning and tracking, and you can easily power it from a small portable compressor (such as the PC pancake compressor, etc).

1/32 per pass might be a little much w/o bogging down the machine; usually I would make 3 - 4 passes to get where I wanted to be. The amount you can remove is dependant upon the width of the stock and hardness.

Good dust collection is a must.

Hope this helps.

Scott

[Rick Fisher]

I have this machine.

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Sander-1.jpg

This is the Steel City version.

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Steelcitytoolworks.jpg

The Steel City has a few features which are nicer, I have inspected it at stores. They improved on the access to the tracking and "prettied" it up a bit.

End of the day, its the same machine.


IMO. This sander is not comparable to the Grizzly. Its a lower end machine and priced accordingly.

The 3hp motor has not been a problem. Never seems short of power.

Dust collection.

I origionally ran it on a 2hp (12amp x 220V) dust collector, with a 4" PVC system. It was terrible. After 30 minutes, I had to remove the cover and clean the machine with a shop-vac. I upgraded to a monster DC, 6" pipe and its now great.

The lower roller is small, 2.5" ?? It has no platen.. so you have to be careful that the wood doesnt stop moving on the conveyor. If it does, the sander will dig a hole in the surface immediatly. This is most common if the DC is leaving too much debris on the conveyor.. The dust seems to act as a lubricant between the wood and conveyor.

On projects over 13", the machine does a lousy job. The open ended feature isnt a problem but the ossilation is aggressive and leaves a long "S" shape line down the board. If you slow the sander to 3fpm. The line is less significant but still needs to be removed with an ROS.

Overall, for sanding 12" wide stock or less, it does a nice job. Belt changes are super fast. You will probably destroy a few belts setting up the tracking. Non air assisted tracking isnt terrible but its not as easy to get "just right". Once you do, its not a problem.

For hobby use, its a good machine. Far superior to an inexpensive drum sander. It is however limited.

[Jay Brewer]

The Grizzly is a better design. The air tracking and tension is far superior to the spring tension on the lesser machines, they are also alot easier to keep the belt tracking properly

As Scott said, it can be ran off almost any compressor. I doubt either machines will take off 1/32" per pass, that is what planers are for. If you were trying 1/32" on the Performax, I can see why you are frustrated, thats not what they are designed to do.

Sander also require plenty of power, 5 hp is the least I would want on a 15" machine. The Grizzly is alot more money, but your getting alot more machine also. JMO

[Loren Blount]

Andy, I was seriously looking at the Steel City in February at the woodworking show in Collinsville IL. However after talking to the steel city rep I ultimately went with the Jet 22-44 Oscillating drum sander for the following reasons:

1. Most of the panels I would be passing through would be wider than 15", but less than 22".

2. Cost, the Jet was $500 less than the Steel City.

3. The Steel City rep was not able to say much positive about the tracking and mechanical oscillation of the belt. Steel city rep "The tracking and oscillating adjustment are very touchy to get set"

I have been using the Jet for only a month, but so far I am very happy with it. It will not take off 1/32 per pass, but I new that going in. I have used it to sand several glue-up's, uhmw plastic, to remove planer snipe, and cabinet doors.

Just something to think about if you haven't looked at the Jet yet.

Good luck with whatever you purchase.

Loren

[george wilson]

I've warned people about the deflection of the Performax,or any other drum sander that the head moves up and down on. They must be loose to allow them to move. Plus,everything is made of aluminum.

My drum sander is a Delta 16-32" drum sander. Its head is securely welded in place. the bed moves up and down. There is no deflection. A much better design.I easily adjust the 2 outside elevation screws of the table until the boards are exactly the same thickness across their width,measured with a micrometer.

The Delta is still not a high powered machine,and is still a drum sander. For my use,I'm perfectly happy with it.

[Thomas S Stockton]

Check out Sunhill they are in the Seattle area (might be close by) and leneave supply people on the yahoo felder forum seem to like their version. If you're using it for finish sanding you should probably make sure you get one with a platen which gives a nicer finish.
Tom

[Andy Pratt]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I've already got a pancake compressor, but I don't really feel like having to start it up every time I want to run my sander. Maybe I need to rethink things here and just accept that as a necessary requirement to get a good sander.

So, is it safe to say that the platen models are considered superior in every aspect except price? I suppose if I'm taking the plunge, I had better do it right.

What moves on these models, the table or the whole belt assembly? It does seem to make sense that if the sanding head moves, it would be more likely to deflect. The table can have multiple attachment points, so a design with the table moving instead of the sanding head seems to be better.

The steel city advertises 1/32" per pass, is this just marketing? Even though it's pushing the limits of it, I can get close to 1/64" per pass with the 16-32 on roughly 1/2 speed, is the wide belt conveyor going to move the material faster, or what's the deal?

Thanks,
Andy

[Dave Lehnert]

I've warned people about the deflection of the Performax,or any other drum sander that the head moves up and down on. They must be loose to allow them to move. Plus,everything is made of aluminum.

My drum sander is a Delta 16-32" drum sander. Its head is securely welded in place. the bed moves up and down. There is no deflection. A much better design.I easily adjust the 2 outside elevation screws of the table until the boards are exactly the same thickness across their width,measured with a micrometer.

The Delta is still not a high powered machine,and is still a drum sander. For my use,I'm perfectly happy with it.

Did Delta get the problem worked out of that unit? I know when it first came out they had huge problems with it.

[george wilson]

Dave,what problems did they have with the Delta? I've never had a problem,and didn't know there were any. I'd like to know out of curiosity. Mine is the first model they produced,but I don't know when they first came out. since mine sat in a box for some years before I got a bigger shop,I don't know how old mine is.

We also bought one for where I worked. The only problem I ever had with it was that the conveyor belt wanted to eventually go to the right side.I'd have to loosen the rollers and slide it back. I haven't had that problem at home. It could be that the belt wasn't quite glued squarely,and had a very slight conical shape.

The dust hood is very excellent. All the dust goes up the collector opening.At last ,something "computer designed" that actually worked.

The belt clamps actually work,no tape necessary. That helps a lot.I had 2 other drum sanders of the "thickness planer" style,a Bridgewood 16" and a Grizzly 24". Both were a pain to change the sandpaper on. I never did get those sanders to make a board the same thickness all the way across.

A drum sander is inherently unable to sand as much off as quickly as a belt sander,but I mostly do guitar work,and am quite satisfied with mine.

[george wilson]

As a separate note,I am always able to put a thumb against the conveyor belt,and a finger on the upper housing of any Performax style sander,and raise the head fairly easily. I do this thumb and finger test with just the one hand.

The Performax salesman dismissed this,saying the sander "wasn't properly adjusted",but every one of any brand I've tried will easily deflect. the Delta is solid as a rock.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Andy,
I have a 7.5 HP SMC that is 24" wide. Even with a 60 grit belt I would not attempt 1/32" cut. The motor has plenty of power but 1/32" a lot of wood to sand off at once. I find the best results come with a fast belt and light passes. That way, the belt runs cooler. By the way, my machine is air tracked and also uses air to power the cylinder that tensions the belt. It also requires a 5hp compressor to keep up with it. It is not an open ended machine and is limited to 24" width. But, it is dead on accurate side to side and end to end. There is no sense trading up to a wide belt unless you are sure you can get the quality you want. Unless you run it for production purposes, speed and maximum cut should not be your priority. Buy the most accurate you can afford. By the way, don't throw away you 3X24 hand held. You will still need it.
Faust Ruggiero

[george wilson]

We never tried to take off 1/32" with the 36" Timesaver in the millwork shop.

[Thomas S Stockton]

Delta had problems with the table raising mechanism seizing up and then the timing belt used to raise the 4 post would skip making the problem worse. They fixed it by adding a plate under the feed table. It really wasn't as big a deal as the internet boards made it out to be and they provided pretty good instructions on how to fix the problem.

Tom

[Steve Kohn]

With the machines you are mentioning you are comparing apples to oranges. A 3 hp machine vs a 5 hp, pneumatically controlled versus mechanical. You really should be comparing the General against the Grizzly G0644.

These are both 3 hp and mechanical adjustments.

I have the 5 hp Grizzly and love it. I don't understand the concern about the air compressor running. Believe me with the dust collector and the sander running at the same time, you will never hear the air compressor.

BTW the 5 hp Grizzly has a platten that you can leave in for finishing sanding or take out for more agressive sanding.

[Rick Fisher]

Glad to hear your going for the heavier machine. The Platen itself is worth the extra $1000.

If I where to do it again, I would have gotten a used wider machine.

[Andy Pratt]

It sounds like my expectations on the amount I can remove in one pass were very excessive. Roughly how much faster can I expect the belt to move on any of these vs. the fastest speed on my 16-32 performax? If I can only take off 1/64th or less, but it's a 4 times faster belt i'm sure I can deal with that. It's just mind-numbing to sit there waiting 30 seconds for a piece of wood to inch through, and knowing I'm going to have to do it 15 more times before I'm done with that board. Because I have only a 12" planer, I have to remove more than I should on occasion, so I'm looking for this to be a bit of a workhorse. On the performax 1/128th is only 1/8 of a turn, which the handle barely even registers. I'm correct to assume that I'll definitely get 1/64th per pass with a wide belt on 100 grit, right?

My biggest concern with running the air is that I generally don't turn my compressor on more than once every few weeks. I don't spray finishes or blow dust off, and my nail guns only get occasional use, so I would be starting/draining and running the compressor every day, just for this machine. If that's necessary to get a good one I can live with it, if it's a toss-up then I would go with the mechanical version.

Thanks,
Andy

[Jay Brewer]

It sounds like my expectations on the amount I can remove in one pass were very excessive. Roughly how much faster can I expect the belt to move on any of these vs. the fastest speed on my 16-32 performax? If I can only take off 1/64th or less, but it's a 4 times faster belt i'm sure I can deal with that. It's just mind-numbing to sit there waiting 30 seconds for a piece of wood to inch through, and knowing I'm going to have to do it 15 more times before I'm done with that board. Because I have only a 12" planer, I have to remove more than I should on occasion, so I'm looking for this to be a bit of a workhorse. On the performax 1/128th is only 1/8 of a turn, which the handle barely even registers. I'm correct to assume that I'll definitely get 1/64th per pass with a wide belt on 100 grit, right?

My biggest concern with running the air is that I generally don't turn my compressor on more than once every few weeks. I don't spray finishes or blow dust off, and my nail guns only get occasional use, so I would be starting/draining and running the compressor every day, just for this machine. If that's necessary to get a good one I can live with it, if it's a toss-up then I would go with the mechanical version.

Thanks,
Andy


You are exactly right Andy. I would almost fall asleep before the board would exit the other side of a Performax. I have a 25" 10 h.p. wide belt that is a blessing. The feed belt runs at 15 feet per minute. Some machines have variable speed.I believe the fastest a Performax will do is 10 fpm, but i had to run mine closer to 5 or 6 to keep from bogging or burning.

I'm not saying I couldn't put a 36 or 60 grit belt on my machine and remove 1/32", I just wouldn't do it. It is terrible for the rubber coated drum, the belt and the motor. If you tax the motor to much, the start capacitor kicks back in. I usually remove no more than .010 per pass, belts are not cheap.

I don't think you will disappointed in the step up to a widebelt, night and day difference. I also think you are making to big a deal out of running air to the machine. The air operated machines are superior in design to the 3 hp machine in almost every way. I would not except all the short comings of that machine because I didn't want to run air. JMO

[Steve Kohn]

I originally had the Ryobi WBS1600. It was a clone of the performax 16/30 drum sander, and I am told the cousin of the Steel City drum.

When I first got it I spent a lot of time adjusting it so the belt tracked correctly, the cantilevered arm was almost parallel to the bed, the dust collection was improved, etc. Bottom line is that 4 years later I hated the machine. It was too slow, didn't sand flat, and the darn paper was a pain to keep on the drum.

I put it on CL and sold it for $300 with about $100 worth of paper going with it.

I bought the Grizzly G9983 WB (the 5 HP). I use it for almost every project. It takes seconds to change the paper so I end up doing a lot less hand sanding. Especially with the platen in.

I have never used one of the 3HP mechanical machines but I would be concerned about being underpowered and difficult to keep the belt tracking correctly.

[Dave Lehnert]

Delta had problems with the table raising mechanism seizing up and then the timing belt used to raise the 4 post would skip making the problem worse. They fixed it by adding a plate under the feed table. It really wasn't as big a deal as the internet boards made it out to be and they provided pretty good instructions on how to fix the problem.

Tom

What he said.

[Dino Drosas]

If you are in that price range you should take a hard look at the Northstate 17" open end wide belt. I have the 3 Phase, 7.5 hp model and could not be happier. This is the exact same machine as the Powermatic for many many dollars less you can see it at www.leneavesupply.com

[Richard Link]

Can anyone comment on the issue of sanding thin strips (i.e. veneer) with a wide belt vs. a drum sander? For the most part, I use my drum sander for two operations: (1) flattening doors and panels (which is does only a marginal job of) and (2) flattening and removing bandsaw marks from shop made veneers (which is does a pretty nice job of). Does the fact that the wide belt oscillates make it a less useful tool for #2 or are they equivalent? I seem to recall looking at the Grizzly site and seeing that some of their widebelts have a fairly severe limitation on how thin the material can be that goes into the machine. I assume this could be gotten around by building a sled, etc. Any thoughts from the wide belt gurus?

Thanks.

Rick