looking for a first compressor and brad nailer [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

thomas struth

03-08-2009, 4:24 PM

I working on a project that could use a brad nailer and I think it's finally time to get one. Things that are important to me include portability and noise level. The latter will make the whole idea more palatable to my spouse.

While brad nailing is the application I need right now, I can envision an occasional need to put some nails into the outside of the house too (with a different nailer). Putting up a piece of siding or trim, either wood or cement fiberboard would be most common. It wouldn't ever be a huge amount and I wouldn't mind waiting for the tank to fill.

I've been eyeing a combo kit by Senco, the PC0947. It includes a 1 gal., 1 HP compressor that is 20 pounds and is reportedly quite quiet. This also comes with a Senco Finish Pro 18 brad nailer.

There are also combo kits by Bostich and PC. Bostich is definitely a better bang for the buck: if I get refurbished, I can get a brad nailer, stapler, and finish nailer for about the same price. But the reviews indicate quality is hit or miss and the compressor is loud and heavier.

I'd appreciate any suggestions.

One other question. Are the 'No-Mar' feed on these nailers usually removable? For my current project I'll need to get into small corners for some toe nailing (building a small torsion box) and it looks like the no-mar foot would preclude this. If it's removable, however, then it probably will work fine.

thanks!
tom

J. Z. Guest

03-08-2009, 4:32 PM

One thing to look for when purchasing is the UL Listing mark. As a UL employee who works on air compressors, I'm probably a little biased, but some of the things that can go wrong with an air compressor and associated tools can be quite nasty. With the trend towards cheapening things, they are starting to try to cut more corners that might effect safety.

frank shic

03-08-2009, 5:39 PM

the thomas air compressor isn't cheap but it's much more quiet than cheaper models like the PC pancake compressor which i have now completely housed in it's own cabinet to muffle its deafening roar.

george wilson

03-08-2009, 5:52 PM

I have the little Senco compressor and brad nailer. I have used it in household work like making trim on shelves,etc.. Not enough to rate its durability,but so far it has worked just fine. Very easy to carry about,and not very noisy at all.

keith ouellette

03-08-2009, 5:57 PM

I bought a porter cable pancake comp/18gage brad nailer and 16 gage finish nailer. It works really well. the compressor seems to fill up quick and the guns are great. The only mark they leave is where the nail goes in. The compressor is loud though.

I have used bostich nail guns a few times. I own a bos roofing nailer. There good guns. A compressor can only be so quiet. I'm sure one could be quieter than the other but I think it will still be load no matter what.

I would get the bostich combo that includes a finish nailer and a brad nailer.

Vince Shriver

03-08-2009, 6:45 PM

I have the senco 0947. Handy little bugger and a nice deal with the gun. I use it with a 23g pin nailer and an 18g crown stapler. Don't use it a lot, but so far it does exactly what it's supposed to.

Chris Allen

03-08-2009, 6:58 PM

I have a Makita mac2400 compressor and a Hitachi brad nailer.

http://www.amazon.com/Makita-MAC2400-Horsepower-4-2-Gallon-Compressor/dp/B0001Q2VPK
http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-NT50AE2-4-Inch-2-Inch-18-Gauge/dp/B000H399PC/ref=dp_ob_title_hi

I would highly recommend both. The compressor is very well built, and runs extremely quiet. If noise level is a concern for you, this is the compressor to get. Cast iron oiled pump, etc. As Frank and Keith already said, stay away from the PC(and pretty much all pancake compressors) if you don't like noise.

Both have many positive user reviews; deserving so. If you wait, both will be a little cheaper on Amazon. I believe I got the compressor for $240, and the nailer for $63.

Good luck.

Bill White

03-08-2009, 7:56 PM

PC here. Bought the 16, 18,ga guns, and have added staplers and a 23 ga since. Keep the guns oiled and the comp. drained.
Bill :D

Chris Kennedy

03-08-2009, 8:13 PM

I have the PC pancake and an 18 gauge brad nailer -- very good. My FIL has the Husky brand compressor with an 18 gauge Bostitch -- also very good. The Bostitch will fire longer brads than my PC. Both are loud, but as was mentioned, pancakes are loud. Actually, if I remember correctly from my research when I bought mine, expect any oiless compressor to be loud.

(And since your post didn't mention where you are from -- on the off chance you are in Tidewater, VA, the Newport News HD has the PC three gun and compressor on its clearance rack. I think it is the display model.)

Cheers,

Chris

Mike Gager

03-08-2009, 10:15 PM

check out harbor freight for their air nailers. they work awesome

Andy Favors

03-09-2009, 7:24 AM

I bought this compressor a few years ago.........

http://www.amazon.com/Ingersoll-Rand-DD2T2-2-Horsepower-2-Gallon-Compressor/dp/B000E23HNG/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1236601389&sr=8-1

I absolutely love it. It's oil lubricated and not that loud. Has a real quick cycle time, about 15-20 seconds. Fills up in about a 60-75 seconds. Awesome compressor.

Quesne Ouaques

03-09-2009, 8:47 AM

I got a Craftsman combo kit about 7 years ago. A 6 gallon pancake compressor with an 18 gauge brad nailer/stapler. The compressor is pretty much identical to the PC combo kits I've seen at the BORG, and the Craftsman nail gun is good but lower quality than the PC.

They've endured moderate use over the past few years, and I've been very happy with both of them. I can offer a couple of general comments on this type of oil-free compressor since I also have an old 10 gallon oil-filled compressor in my shop.

Oil-free compressors are loud! There is no way of getting around that. When the pancake compressor kicks off you can hear it everywhere in the house, and when the oil-filled compressor runs, you can hardly hear it even standing right next to it. The difference is like night and day. It's heavier, of course, but it also never moves from the shop.

Also, keep in mind that the air capacity of a small compressor is very limited. You may only notice it when you're doing a lot of nailing or when you're using a die grinder, air saw or cut-off tool.

As a sometimes-hobby metal worker I have noticed the limitations when using air tools to grind and polish. The pressure in the small compressor begins to go down immediately, and the motor has to run constantly to keep up with even light usage. As a result, I hook up my two tanks to give me a 16 gallon total capacity when I need it.

Prashun Patel

03-09-2009, 8:59 AM

Get the Makita Hotdog and an 18ga nailer that'll shoot up to 2.5". That'll last you for a while.

Ray Dockrey

03-09-2009, 9:29 AM

Ralph Okonieski

03-09-2009, 11:39 AM

Take a look at the Ridgid brad nailer. Has 5/8 to 2-1/8 inch range. This is what I bought about a year ago and it has performed well since then.

http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/R213BNA-Nailer/EN/index.htm

Todd Pretty

03-09-2009, 5:06 PM

I have a Makita mac2400 compressor and a Hitachi brad nailer.

I'll second the vote for the Makita Mac2400. I have three compressors, a little Senco hotdog compressor, that is awesome for small finishing projects, the Mac2400 if I'm both finishing and back framing, or a 4 Gallon Thomas for running a couple of guys with framing guns. All three compressors are some of the quietest in their size class.

*Edit... I just realized that I meant the Mac700, my buddy has the Mac2400 and it is a good compressor, but heavier then my Thomas, and it can't match it's output... though it is about 1/2 price, when I bought the Thomas, the prices were much closer.

The Thomas is the hands down winner for quality, but you definitely pay a premium for it. I dont know if it would be worth it in a small compressor.

The Senco has been good, but useless for anything larger then a 16g nailer, it even struggles with the 15g, if you are using it for more then a few shots here and there. But for the 16g, 18g and 23g, it is more then enough.

The MAC2400 is only a little bit heavier, and a little bit larger then the Senco, but it will run a framing nailer and even a sheeting nailer in a pinch. Which is nice sometimes. I've seen it bundled with the Makita 18g for a couple of hundred dollars, which is a steal. I was impressed by the quality of the Makita 18g as well, and I've never been a huge fan of Makita, but these tools, along with some of their other new offerings has been changing my mind.

I've used both the Bostitch and PC combos, and from my experience, both of them were poor substitutes at best.

Chris Tsutsui

03-09-2009, 5:36 PM

One bang per buck brad nailer has got to be the Hitachi 2" brad nailer (sold by reconditioned tools). NT50AE2.

I paid $47 for it recon, and it's great with my hitachi EC12 4 gallon compressor.

A LOT of people buy the PC pancake combo at big box stores. Then they realize they don't use one or two of the items so they pawn it on craigslist. I found some nice deals on these... One guy sold me his new PC FN250B 16GA finishing nailer for $40. It came with the original box of nails in the case and he only used a few nails. The guy did keep the compressor to use as a duster for blowing off dust from computers. (He was a computer repair man)

Though if I were a professional, I'd get the Senco FP25XP nailer.

Brian DeLore

03-10-2009, 12:48 AM

I would recomend a used Senco SLP 20. It is an american made tool and is a joy to use. For the compressor I vote for any used emglo product. It also was made in the U.S.A. If used tools scare you , I have been pleased with my Omer pinner. This is made in Italy, and a very fine tool.

Stan Duncan

03-10-2009, 1:12 AM

I am trying to find A way to start a new thread, I maw be too new of a user. I don't want to up load my Sketchup model to this thread.

I have not built any normal furniture, so I am seeking approval of my frame design.

Thanks,
Stanley Alaska/Oregon

Stan Duncan

03-10-2009, 1:20 AM

Stan Duncan

03-10-2009, 1:56 AM

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/terrarium%20cabinet

Stan Duncan

03-10-2009, 1:56 AM

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/download?mid=10b6135f125e6c39896bb7c9eeaa3bdb&rtyp=lt&ctyp=other&ts=1236666583000
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/terrarium%20cabinet

dan lemkin

03-10-2009, 3:01 AM

I would seriously consider getting a Paslode butane fired brad nailer. I have three compressors... and a bunch of pneumatics and often avoid using them because of the hassle of compressors, cords, and hoses...

My portable still weighs 35lb, and is loud, and cycles often
My 80 gal, takes forever to fill up and drain, so I don't use it often
My 13 gal, is really nice and fast... but not really portable, so not used all over the house.

The paslodes are fantastic for intermittent use. They can't rapid fire as quickly, but they are fast enough for most use. I have their framing nailer and love it. My contractors use them for the same reason... They are loud when fired, but no more annoying than a pneumatic nailer and compressor noise... I wear hearing protection for all of them.

The butane is not cheap, but lasts a long time, as does the battery. The nails are not significantly more expense than pneumatic nails...

They make a 16ga, framing... and I think an 18ga

James K Peterson

03-10-2009, 5:34 AM

Thomas, I think all of the compressors/nailers mentioned are great and would work well for the homeowner/hobbiest. I've used/owned most of them (except the Makita), The pancake/nailer combos are great for the first time user, they may not hold up to job site, daily use, but they are good. Look for no mar tips on the nailer. If you are doing more fine work a 23ga pin nailer would be great to have too.

If you don't think you'll need a compressor for anything other than the nailer, you may want to consider an airless nailer. I have the dewalt 18V finish nailer and have found it to hold up very well and is great to use for those quick jobs when you don't want to have to drag out the compressor/hoses. If you don't think you'll need to shoot thousands of nails this might be a great option for you, especially if you already have 18v dewalt tools (there are other airless nailers, but I can't vouch for them).

Let us know what you end up with and how you like it.

James

thomas struth

03-10-2009, 6:16 AM

Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions. I'll continue my research using your wisdom. I'm definitely finding myself torn between wanting a super light compressor that is portable and a larger one that is more versatile (and a limited budget). The Senco 1010 really does fit the bill for light, but it appears unrealistic to expect it to do any more than light duty brad nailing and some craft stapling.

The Makitas people have mentioned look nice but might be out of my price range for a starter kit.

I saw a new Bostitch pancake compressor at Lowes today that looked interesting. Despite the common report that pancakes are always loud, this one advertises itself as a quiet compressor at 72 dB. This puts it right around the same range as the tiny Senco (which is at 69 dB), and quieter than the Makita (80 dB). The kit includes the compressor and the typical brad, finish, and stapler.

I researched the brad nailer (an SB-1850bn). Some like it, but one person said the depth adjustment was sensitive (http://www.amazon.com/review/R85TS1FB8CT9/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm) and that when nailing at an angle (e.g. when in corners) that it couldn't sink the nails. If this is true that that completely rules that kit out. Has anyone used the SB-1850bn?

I'll let you know what I decide and how it works out. Thanks for all the info!!

tom

Paul Steiner

03-10-2009, 7:03 AM

Another vote for the PC. I bought a 18 ga. 3 gallon compressor combo this past black Friday for $99. The nailer is the best brad nailer I own and I have a duofast and several HF models. The compressor is rated for 150psi and it easily runs all my nailers, framer, floor nailer, etc, and I am surprised by how little is cycles. Lastly it weighs on 33lbs, light as a feather.
My advice get large enough compressor to run anything you may need in the future.

thomas struth

03-10-2009, 10:05 PM

Is that Porter Cable compressor the C2002? I see that all of PC's small compressors are rated at about 82 dB. How loud does it sound to you?

No question that 82 is a lot louder than the 69 of the tiny Senco, but the extra capacity would be useful. According to a loudness chart (http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html), in theory, 82 dB shouldn't be too bad. It puts it between a telephone dial tone and city traffic (from inside the car). Hmm, it also suggests that a 10 dB increase would be perceived as approximately twice as loud, so that puts it in perspective.

BTW, remember that new Bostitch compressor that Lowes advertises as 72.5 dB? I asked Bostitch directly and they said it's at 89 dB. That "small" difference is like the difference between normal conversation and a train whistle at 500'!

thomas struth

03-11-2009, 4:53 AM

What are people's thoughts on the length of brads they use the most? At first glance, I had intended to go for a nailer that does 5/8" to 2" brads. That gives me plenty of flexibility.

But the more I look, the more it appears that if you go with a shorter range, then the tool is smaller and lighter. I expect this would make it easier to get into tight corners (e.g. nailing into dado joint corners). For example, the PC BN125a looks nice, but only goes up to 1 1/4" brads.

What's most useful? Something like 1 3/8" seems like a good compromise...it would nail 3/4" to 3/4" for example. But I'd appreciate hearing from others.

Rich Engelhardt

03-11-2009, 5:26 AM

Hello,
What length is going to open a can of worms ;).

Personally, my rule of thumb is:

- up to 1" a 23 ga pin.
- up to 1 1/4" an 18 ga brad.
Both of the above usually are used in congunction with some sort of adhesive. Either locktite Power Grab or Titebond II.
- up to 2 " a 16 ga finishing nail (actually a brad)
And adhesive where needed.

- over 2" and/or for heavier use a 15 ga finishing nail. By heavier I mean installing a solid core pre hung door. For hollow core doors, IMHO, a 16 ga is ample.
- 2X stock - the framing nailer.

Where appearance is secondary, such as backs or insides which are never seen, I lean towards using an 18 ga staple along with some glue/adhesive.

Specialty applications - such as ring shank nails or tight spots to get to (joist hangers), I use a palm nailer.

Personally, I don't rely on the pneumatic fastener alone in the smaller sizes (23 and 18). I use them primarily to hold the material together while the adhesive sets.

In a "perfect world" we'd all have all the clamps we need and all the time to allow the use of good joinery techniques which would preclude the use of mechanical (metal) fasteners.

BTW - my $.02 on the Senco is that it's a fair 2nd compressor. For a primary compressor, you really want double the power & double the SCFM of air delivery. I'd say, ballpark, 4.x (or very close to it) SCFM @ 90psi would be a good primary for most tasks.

IMHO - you're going to regret not haviong enough air, sooner rather than later.

For portability, you also need to pay close attention to the current draw.
2.0 and 2.5HP units will generally draw 14.5 amps.
That's where the Makita MAC2400 really shines.
It makes as much air as other lesser (and in the case of the Ingersoll Rand, equal/better) pumps, but only draws 12.x amps.
Don't even think of putting any of the others at the end of an extension cord.
IMO - and based on years of selling compressors - that's probably the biggest reason the "pancakes" have such a bad rep for short lives.

Jerome Hanby

03-11-2009, 10:38 AM

I've got the Porter Cable kit that includes three nailers and their pancake compressor. I have zero complaints. I also have a brad nailer and pin nailer from harbor freight, both work well.

I've heard (haha) that the Porter Cable compressor is a little loud, but I don't have a "quiet" compressor to compare it to, my larger compressor is at least as loud.

Peter Scoma

03-11-2009, 4:56 PM

I have the PC pancake and got a deal with 4 guns on black friday from HD.

A while back I bought a palmgren hip compressor from Amazon for 40 bucks and havent even touched the PC since then. Now, when I was trimming out my basement, the PC worked like a charm, however, I rarely use many nails these days. If I need to shoot a couple dozen brads or pins, I reach for the palmgren. One battery doesn't last very long but if I had a job to do that would drain 2 batteries, I'd break out the PC anyway.

Really great, Cheap tool to have.

PS

Dan Hahr

03-11-2009, 8:59 PM

I have the PC pancake and have no complaints other than the fact that the drain is not low enough to drain without tilting the compressor. Is it loud? Yes. I just tested it against my Dewalt planer. My wife says the planer is louder, but I did not have the dust collector hooked up which quiets it slightly. She did say that the PC is more of an annoying noise with a vibrating bass.

The planer makes me reach for ear plugs, the compressor just scares the hell out of me (when I am not expecting it).

As far as quality, I have wasted so many 2.5" 16 ga nails just because I like seeing how they bury them in solid red oak!

If I am using the PC for an extended period of time, I just keep it around the corner or outside.
Dan

Brian Penning

03-13-2009, 5:58 AM

The Makita has a smaller tank(4.2) than the PC pancake(6 gal) so it must come on a lot more often, no?
Come to think of it, is there any advantage to a twin tank vs pancake compressor?

I have a Makita mac2400 compressor and a Hitachi brad nailer.

http://www.amazon.com/Makita-MAC2400-Horsepower-4-2-Gallon-Compressor/dp/B0001Q2VPK
http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-NT50AE2-4-Inch-2-Inch-18-Gauge/dp/B000H399PC/ref=dp_ob_title_hi

I would highly recommend both. The compressor is very well built, and runs extremely quiet. If noise level is a concern for you, this is the compressor to get. Cast iron oiled pump, etc. As Frank and Keith already said, stay away from the PC(and pretty much all pancake compressors) if you don't like noise.

Both have many positive user reviews; deserving so. If you wait, both will be a little cheaper on Amazon. I believe I got the compressor for $240, and the nailer for $63.

Good luck.

Irwin Fletcher

03-13-2009, 8:51 AM

I got the PC pancake compressor package that came with a 18 gauge brad nailer, a 16 gauge finish nailer, and a crown stapler. Got it on clearance a couple of years ago for about $200 and it has been awesome.

Same kit for me, although I got mine on Amazon for $279 or so. It's been a few years, so I can't quite remember. I've had zero issues with the compressor or the guns, but the thing is LOUD! I'm talking hearing protection loud.