French Doors

[Jacob Mac]

My puppy chewed a hole through my back door. I know it sounds really weird, but I returned home and I saw our puppy chewing on the door. Anyway, now I am sitting at the computer and I feel a nice little breeze on my feet. Have I mentioned I hate dogs?

Anyway I need to replace the door, and I was trying to find some information about making french doors. Is there a book or a video I could buy to learn how to make french doors?

I just bought a shaper, so I have the machinery necessary for the job, I am just looking for a little guidance. I saw that Freud has a router bit set for making french doors, but they look pretty pricey. If the cost of getting the cutters or router bits is going to be close to what a door at the borg is going to cost, I might just buy the door from a borg and call it good. Any advice would be great

Thanks

Jacob

[Chip Lindley]

You cannot make one French door as cheaply as you can buy decent 15-light doors at the BORG! An exterior door cutter set (1-3/4" thick stock) is a pretty expensive proposition for just ONE door! Plus, learning all the in's and out's of door construction. (and fitting mullions) You may have varmits coming through that opening besides just a breeze before you perfect your door-making (and hanging!)

But, if you are a GUTSY kinda guy...GO FOR IT! Grizzly and Elite Tools (eBay) sell some decent cutter sets for entrance doors. You will have to hone your machining methods to produce consistent results that go together like they should! Door making will be a HUGE learning experience for you !!

[jacques nolin]

My puppy chewed a hole through my back door. I know it sounds really weird, but I returned home and I saw our puppy chewing on the door. Anyway, now I am sitting at the computer and I feel a nice little breeze on my feet. Have I mentioned I hate dogs?

Anyway I need to replace the door, and I was trying to find some information about making french doors. Is there a book or a video I could buy to learn how to make french doors?

I just bought a shaper, so I have the machinery necessary for the job, I am just looking for a little guidance. I saw that Freud has a router bit set for making french doors, but they look pretty pricey. If the cost of getting the cutters or router bits is going to be close to what a door at the borg is going to cost, I might just buy the door from a borg and call it good. Any advice would be great

Thanks

Jacob
why not just repair it jack

[Jacob Mac]

You cannot make one French door as cheaply as you can buy decent 15-light doors at the BORG! An exterior door cutter set (1-3/4" thick stock) is a pretty expensive proposition for just ONE door! Plus, learning all the in's and out's of door construction. (and fitting mullions) You may have varmits coming through that opening besides just a breeze before you perfect your door-making (and hanging!)

But, if you are a GUTSY kinda guy...GO FOR IT! Grizzly and Elite Tools (eBay) sell some decent cutter sets for entrance doors. You will have to hone your machining methods to produce consistent results that go together like they should! Door making will be a HUGE learning experience for you !!

Thanks Chip. Assuming I am gutsy, or just plain dumb as my wife likes to say, is there a good resource out there I could get to help me make the door?

[Jacob Mac]

why not just repair it jack


The extent of the damage would make the prospect of repairing the door as difficult as building a new one. In all fairness, the door needed replaced anyway.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I know I've seen a book on door making, but I sure can't remember what it's called... Anyone else with better memory? I think it was a Taunton book, a pretty old one.

What parts of the door construction do you need help with?

[David DeCristoforo]

If you are going to dive into the deep end, you might as well invest a few more bucks on a decent book:

http://www.amazon.com/Make-Your-Handcrafted-Doors-Windows/dp/0806965444

All of the knowledge you will need can be found in this book. No point reinventing the wheel. The skill? well, that's another kettle of fish. But if you learn some things first and take some time to make test cuts and verify everything before committing expensive materials and are careful with your setups and understand how to perform each operation safely... well then there is no reason you could not make a door. But, you will never make one cheaper that you could buy one, especially if you are buying it from a "BORG". And most especially if you don't care about the quality!

[Mats Bengtsson]

You cannot make one French door as cheaply as you can buy decent 15-light doors at the BORG! An exterior door cutter set (1-3/4" thick stock) is a pretty expensive proposition for just ONE door! Plus, learning all the in's and out's of door construction. (and fitting mullions) You may have varmits coming through that opening besides just a breeze before you perfect your door-making (and hanging!)

But, if you are a GUTSY kinda guy...GO FOR IT! Grizzly and Elite Tools (eBay) sell some decent cutter sets for entrance doors. You will have to hone your machining methods to produce consistent results that go together like they should! Door making will be a HUGE learning experience for you !!

I happen to have a similar problem, so I am borrowing this thread reply to try to understand what is needed. I have seen some door cutter sets, and also how they can be used for quite wide door taps, but how are the holes made for coresponding widths? A normal router bit can not go deep enough?

--- Mats ---

[David DeCristoforo]

"...but how..."

Read the book! There are many ways to make the joints but the cope and stick cuts are not strong enough to hold a large door together. They must be used in conjunction with some additional joinery.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Before you start, make sure your dog doesn't like "French Food".

Faust Ruggiero

[Neal Clayton]

second the book david linked. it's out of print so you'll have to pay quite a bit for it but it is the most complete resource on building doors and windows available in one publication.

i also highly recommend sketchup. making measurements on the fly is not something that can be done with windows and doors..well at least not by someone who isn't a mathematical prodigy to start with. you need to know what you're doing before you ever cut a board.

fwiw i use the freud door set you mention for both doors and windows. they work fine. yes they will be pricey, but that goes with the territory. these aren't the box full of 1/4" roundover and rabbet bits you get at the borg for 30 bucks. if they aren't a perfect match to each other the joints won't fit. and if they have to be sharpened too often they won't match anymore. unless you never plan to make a door or window again after this one, i'd avoid the cheapo rail/stile sets.

and there are other considerations besides the cuts. you need a dead flat gluing surface, or a dead flat floor with clamps that stand up on their own (like the bessey k bodies). you need to measure the cutter heights by checking test cuts with a micrometer as you go, eyeballing it is not good enough, nor is a ruler good enough. you'll need a helper when you start the glue up, once the glue is on there's no going back so you have to have it together before the glue starts to set. you have to have flawless lumber. if you have a board that you flatten, plane, and dimension on monday that cups or twists before you start cutting the parts on tuesday, you throw it away and get another one that stays straight. that's why good solid core doors cost so much.

and then there's hanging it, which is a whole other set of problems and solutions.


I happen to have a similar problem, so I am borrowing this thread reply to try to understand what is needed. I have seen some door cutter sets, and also how they can be used for quite wide door taps, but how are the holes made for coresponding widths? A normal router bit can not go deep enough?

--- Mats ---

the freud bits can be taken apart, so you're only cutting half of a rail or stile at a time (you flip the board and cut each side separately).

so the profile height stays the same, only the width of your tenon and the width of the panel groove change.

[Mats Bengtsson]

second the book david linked. it's out of print so you'll have to pay quite a bit for it but it is the most complete resource on building doors and windows available in one publication.

i also highly recommend sketchup. making measurements on the fly is not something that can be done with windows and doors..well at least not by someone who isn't a mathematical prodigy to start with. you need to know what you're doing before you ever cut a board.

fwiw i use the freud door set you mention for both doors and windows. they work fine. yes they will be pricey, but that goes with the territory. these aren't the box full of 1/4" roundover and rabbet bits you get at the borg for 30 bucks. if they aren't a perfect match to each other the joints won't fit. and if they have to be sharpened too often they won't match anymore. unless you never plan to make a door or window again after this one, i'd avoid the cheapo rail/stile sets.

and there are other considerations besides the cuts. you need a dead flat gluing surface, or a dead flat floor with clamps that stand up on their own (like the bessey k bodies). you need to measure the cutter heights by checking test cuts with a micrometer as you go, eyeballing it is not good enough, nor is a ruler good enough. you'll need a helper when you start the glue up, once the glue is on there's no going back so you have to have it together before the glue starts to set.

and then there's hanging it, which is a whole other set of problems and solutions.



the freud bits can be taken apart, so you're only cutting half of a rail or stile at a time (you flip the board and cut each side separately).

so the profile height stays the same, only the width of your tenon and the width of the panel groove change.

Thank you, very complete answer. Could check of all requirements except book and router bits. Now hunting for the book.

--- Mats ---

[Jacob Mac]

If you are going to dive into the deep end, you might as well invest a few more bucks on a decent book:

http://www.amazon.com/Make-Your-Handcrafted-Doors-Windows/dp/0806965444

All of the knowledge you will need can be found in this book. No point reinventing the wheel. The skill? well, that's another kettle of fish. But if you learn some things first and take some time to make test cuts and verify everything before committing expensive materials and are careful with your setups and understand how to perform each operation safely... well then there is no reason you could not make a door. But, you will never make one cheaper that you could buy one, especially if you are buying it from a "BORG". And most especially if you don't care about the quality!


Thanks David. That was exactly what I was looking for.

[Jim O'Dell]

And get a crate for the puppy. Don't leave home without puppy in crate. ;) Jim.

[Jacob Mac]

And get a crate for the puppy. Don't leave home without puppy in crate. ;) Jim.

I am a big fan of crate training. Unfortunately it wouldn't have helped in this case. The puppy was outside with my daughter when she chewed through the door. But, like I said, the door needed replaced anyway. This just changes my order of priorities about what I need to.

[William OConnell]

Its not as easy to make a door as one would imagine. Its very time consuming. I made 16 oak doors for a customer last year. If they wanted less than 5 I would have bought them but they liked the idea of me making the doors out of Long Island grown Red oak. So I made them. I made some videos of the process but never edited them at all so they're a little long and I never uploaded the very last 2 videos.
Heres a link to the video. No making fun of my hat. Its my lucky hat, just saying.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5422058107065451907
Heres the doors ready for assembly and installed
http://woodworkers.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=866&g2_serialNumber=2

Installed I had the camera settings wrong so theres a red hue on the rails which really isn't there when looking at them real time
http://www.indianisland.us/Gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1666&g2_serialNumber=2

one more
http://www.indianisland.us/Gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1658&g2_serialNumber=2

[Jim O'Dell]

William, those are beautiful!! I'd love to have something that looked like that in my house, but then the dogs would LIVE in the crates!!:eek:

Jacob, sorry I didn't understand the pup was outside. Mine just jump up on the door, open it (French lever handle) and come on inside when they want! :D Jim.

[Ganesh Kumar]

I realize I am posting on a really old thread. I couldn't contact William here by PM, so posting here hoping he would see it.

I tried the video link he posted (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5422058107065451907) but, youtube says this video is private, and wouldn't play it. Is there any chance you might be able to share it again or open it for public viewing?

I am considering building one french door (interior) for my house for the home office room. The existing finished opening is not a standard size (60.5" w x 94" tall) with sheetrock. So, I can either get prehung doors from the BORG and re-frame the wall opening to fit them, or try and make a set myself. Would love to see your videos to understand the complexity.

Thanks,
-Ganesh