Dovetail Saw On Its Way, next?

[Chris Thompson]

OK, so my ebay "problem" took hold of me and I purchased an old Disston/Jennings "Dovetail Saw".

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6108574811

At $30 I may have paid too much, but "Buy it now" is like a drug and I couldn't resist. I was watching about four different saws. One went to $52 and the other disappeared on a $40 "Buy it now", so I paniced.

First thing I notice is the grind mark along the side. I'm hoping I can polish that out at least to the point it won't matter. Will it matter?

Second is, I did get some PM's from people from my earlier thread which said "When you get the saw, let us know and we can tell you how to refile it."

So, here I am. How can I make this thing a dovetailing monster?

[Don Kugelberg]

I know you'll get contrary advice but if it was me, I send it to Cooke's and have it sharpened. They can be found at www.cookessharpening.com. They are reasonably priced and do great work on hand saws. Most of us don't use our saws often enough to have to learn yet another sharpening skill given that places like Cooke's are so reasonable. I'd rather cut dovetails than sharpen saws any day! There are those who have handsaw fetishes who learn to sharpen them (I'm not flaming them, its just that my tastes run more to handplanes) but most of us who want a few good users are better served by the sharpening service IMHO. :)

[Roy Wall]

Chris,

I think its money well spent - after all, that's 1/4 the price of a new Adria/LN.....

It looks to be in very good condition - a great find! I'm looking for a DT too!

As a newbie to hand work, I also have this disease and can't wait to hear the responses of the experts. This is a great place!

[Chris Thompson]

Don,

I'm going whole hog on this neanderthal thing :)

What I want to do is learn how to do all these things like sharpening. It's why I've decided not to buy a veritas dovetail guide yet, because I want to learn to cut them without a saw guide.

Granted, in the long run, I may take the time saving route, but I want to learn the technique at least once. Thanks for the link though, I've got them bookmarked. I've got some other things that need sharpening that I may look them up for.

[Pam Niedermayer]

You may want to have it retoothed rip for a dovetailing monster; but that's not something you have to do right away.

Pam

[Tim Sproul]

You have chisels...I'm assuming you've a way to keep them sharp.

I'd suggest a coping or fret saw. In my experience....it is easier, faster and more accurate to remove most of the waste with one of those saws than to chop all the waste.

And PRACTICE ;)

[Zahid Naqvi]

Chris, I have found a lot of useful information from vintagesaws.com. Following is a link to the sharpening page.

http://www.vintagesaws.com/cgi-bin/frameset.cgi?left=main&right=/library/library.html

Zahid

[Chris Thompson]

Tim,

I have a 4 piece set of Marples Blue Chip. I am planning on getting a Veritas sharpening jig and some fine paper to sharpen with scary sharp. I'm going to try the higher angle trick that someone suggested, and the veritas jig has a cam adjusted wheel to give you 2degrees of extra angle for microbevel.

I did buy a cheap $10 fret saw with an assortment of blades, I used it on the one failed attempt at a dovetail with poplar and my now-returned crappy Stanley "Dovetail Saw".

What I'm going to look into is a jewelers saw. My grandfather was a manufacturing jeweler until he died in 1975. My father has one of his jewelers saws with these hair thin, yet strong blades. I remember as a kid playing with tools in the basement (When I wasn't supposed to) and using that saw to cut swirly patterns in a piece of pine I'd found.

I'm not sure it would work well in Oak, but it's worth a try.

As for practice, I checked yesterday and Lowes has 1"x4"x12ft red oak that is very straight and costs $12. Someone suggested practicing on hardwood to minimize tearing. Practice makes perfect, and I bet I can do alot on a 12' board cut into segments :)

[Tim Sproul]

Chisel sharpening....don't go to the higher bevel angle unless you experience problems with edge failure. For cutting tools, you want the LOWEST bevel angle that gives you acceptable edge retention in the wood you are working.

I have the veritas honing guide and like it. FYI...rob lee, as in pres of Lee Valley...has sent notice on other boards that a new and improved Veritas honing guide will be introduced later this year. You might consider one of the cheapy $10 guides....or learn to sharpen free hand ( I recommend free hand). I still use the honing guide for setting a new bevel angle....until I get myself a slow speed grinder.

The practicing....the best way to get the most practice from the wood...crosscut that board into the longest lengths you can comforably fit on your bench and in the vise(s). Cut the dovetails for a corner and fit....after doing that...crosscut the tails and pins off and start again....for a 12 foot, 3/4 thick board, you'll get to around 90 or so corners to practice on :D


Remember...I'm not expert. I've just recently (as in within the last year) gone through the learning process myself so it is all very fresh in my mind ;)

[Brad Olson]

Have FUN cutting dovetails is all I can say. There is nothing like spending an afternoon cutting dovetails and seeing the whole thing come together. I would consider myself an intermediate at best at hand cutting dovetails and enjoy it a lot. The one thing that makes dovetails much easier is good layout. 80% of my dovetail errors are due to lousy layout marks. I mark my waste, and use arrows to indicate which side of the line to cut on just to make absolutely sure I don't make a mistake. As mentioned previously a coping saw is great for hogging out most of the wasts and saving the edges on your chisels.

Brad

[Marc Hills]

Chris:

I think your eBay saw purchase looks fine. Maybe a bit pricey, but Dave Anderson had you salivating for a Spehar or Adria saw, which is considerably more coin. (You can always count on Dave to give you a good shove should your slide on the Neander slope ever slow down.)

So while you are in your impulsive tool acquisition phase, you've actually shown some fiscal restraint.

I would second Pam's suggestion that you resharpen that saw to a rip tooth profile, only I think you should do it right away. As you yourself said, you want to acquire the various neanderthal skills. Saw sharpening is one of them. So if you are going to have to learn it sooner or later, might as well be sooner when you can use it to configure your saw for the use for which you intend.

[Wendell Wilkerson]

Chris,

I think you got a pretty good deal on that saw. In my search for backsaws on Ebay, saws in that good of condition go for at least $40 and sometimes higher. Put another way, you're lucky you got to that saw before I did, I would've have snapped it up at $30 Buy it Now in a heartbeat. I hope that saw works out for you.

Wendell

[Chris Thompson]

I've dropped an email to Cooke's Sharpening containing the URL of that ebay auction, and telling him what I want to do. Depending on his price, I may have the seller ship it right to cookes.

While I do want to learn to sharpen, I think the risk is lower that I learn on the three mid-50's era Disston handsaws that I have in the garage, since I have three of those and only one dovetail. :)

As for whether it was overpriced or not, it was a risk I was comfortable with. Two saws I'd been watching went at $52 and $40. $30 seemed reasonable, especially with $5 shipping.

My backup plan had been a $39 fine cut dozuki at Woodcraft, so in the end, if I can get this thing sharpened into an end grain monster, I'll be about even, I guess.

[Alan Turner]

Couple of thoughts. First, as to the fret saw or jewler's saw, reverse the blade, so it is cutting on the pull stroke. Hard to break a blade that way. Works great.
Second, if you are going to file, Joel, at www.ToolsforWorkingwood.com has the correct files, which are a bit hard to find. The size you need will depend upon the TPI, and that you won't know till you get it. I would consider sending the saw out for the first time, get it jointed, shaped, set, and sharpened, all at once. Tell him you want it at 15 tpi, rip. Then you will know what to strive for. You can then resharpen it by filing 2 or 3 times before it needs a complete filing overhaul. And, if you don't file it perfect when you first get it, your cutting will be off, and you won't be able to easily improve your work. As to cross cut saws, I wouldn't file them myself as the consistency of angles is a bit hard to achieve, and it matters.
As far as filing, Tom Law has a video out which is pretty good. And there was an article, faily detailed, in FWW in 1980, if you have access to it. The article, and Tom Law, are not in full agreement, but their differences are a bit subtle.
Have fun with your new toy. The handles of the older Disstons are quite comfortable.
Alan

[Dave Anderson NH]

The grind mark on the blade will effects cosmetics only. I second the idea of getting it retoothed for rip. As a crosscut, it will have trouble clearing the sawdust and will be more likely to wander and wallow in the kerf. Whether you do the rework yourself or send it out is a matter of choice. Personally, I've done both depending on my ambition at a particular time. Generally though I sharpen all of my rip saws myself and send out only some of the crosscuts. As others have mentioned, Pete Taran's site has great info on jointing, filing and setting your own saws. Tom Law's video on saw sharpening is a great help to the do it yourselfer and it's pretty inexpensive. All in all, ya dun good !!

[R. Hock]

Just thought I would chime in a little. The saw that went for $52 on ebay recently was a H. Disston & Sons 10" Dovetail/Back SawSaw that had been retuned, sharpened, and tested by a Neanderthal.




I think that is why it demanded a higher price.

Randyhttp://home.grics.net/~weir/bfront.jpg

[Chris Thompson]

I don't feel too bad about my $30 spent on the disston saw, one of the others I was watching just closed at $38, which means I'd ahve been over $40 to out bid that.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=6107809536

The seller of my plane charged me $5 shipping and will be shipping it direct to Steve Cooke at Cooke's Sharpening, who will be at the very least sharpening it, and depending on what he finds, perhaps regrinding as well. Based on his ballpark estimates without having the saw in hand, that'll be another $20ish for the work and shipping back to me.

So, yeah, I actually went to $55 on this saw, but in the end, it'll be a dovetailing monster. :)

[Tim Sproul]

So, yeah, I actually went to $55 on this saw, but in the end, it'll be a dovetailing monster. :)

Just a nit....

but you should say that YOU'LL be a dovetailing monster. I've yet to see a saw that dovetailed all by itself ;).....in other words, it ain't the tool! :rolleyes: