Biscuit Jointer Recommendations [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Jonathan Spool

03-04-2009, 11:05 PM

Hi Lois,
Most of the name brand biscuit joiners will work fine. The biggest question IMHO is whether or not you will require the ability to install a smaller blade for face frame work as only some brands offer that option.
Other considerations would be the extent that you plan to use the tool.
And of course, how much are you willing to spend!
Jonathan

Rick Cicciarelli

03-04-2009, 11:11 PM

The Porter Cable has been best buy and editors choice for many years running now. I've got that one myself, though I haven't had a chance to use it much yet....

george wilson

03-04-2009, 11:14 PM

I don't use biscuit jointers much,but picked up a DeWalt cheap some time ago. It has different depth stops for using different size biscuits. Why do you need a smaller blade? I did use mine to make a huge dining table my wife wanted. The curly maple planks were about 16 or more inches wide,and too heavy for cutting regular splines in on a table saw.

Routers throw so much dust around I generally refrain from using them.

Michael Parr

03-04-2009, 11:20 PM

Any opinion on the fetstool Domino? Seems to allow the most functionality.

Dewey Torres

03-04-2009, 11:25 PM

Any opinion on the fetstool Domino? Seems to allow the most functionality.

It does with a huge price tag. Seems to be where most are headed who can afford it.

Aaron Berk

03-04-2009, 11:45 PM

The Porter Cable has been best buy and editors choice for many years running now. I've got that one myself, though I haven't had a chance to use it much yet....

+1 for me too. I LOVE my PC-557 and would recommend it a thousand times over. Here's some reading about a comparison http://www.woodworking.org/WC/GArchive98/9_26mattbisc1.html
I use the FF biscuits for more than just face frames, comes in real handy.

Mark Elmer

03-05-2009, 12:30 AM

I have the Porter Cable 557 too. It works well.

David DeCristoforo

03-05-2009, 12:46 AM

I bought a Virutex biscuit joiner in the early '80's. That was when the only other option was the outrageously expensive Lamello and the cumbersome Elu. I'm still using it. Two years ago I replaced the bearings. Three standard sized "over the counter" bearings. Cost eleven bucks and took about an hour to rebuild the whole thing. I doubt that any of the PCs or DeWalts or Hundais or Suzukis will still be working in 35 years!

PS I use it every day.
PPS The original Virutex has a switch that can be taken apart and cleaned or repaired! Mine still has the original switch!

Phillip Bogle

03-05-2009, 1:42 AM

I was facing the same choice 2 years ago and I ended up going a completely different direction. I went with a Dowelmax and have never been happier.

You might want to consider one. You use your regular drill and can fit dowels into smaller spaces or larger than you can with a biscuit. I wish everything else I did was as accurate as the Dowelmax.

I have not connection with the company in anyway, I am just a happy customer and believe you would be as well. BTW: I have never seen one offered for sale used -- I think that speaks volumes.

http://www.dowelmax.com/

Phil

Rob Price

03-05-2009, 2:13 AM

Along the same lines, I just bought the Freud doweling machine. I had always wanted a biscuit joiner, but was not convinced the biscuit actually adds much strength to the joint. Wood magazine did a joint test and dowel and pocket screws held better.

the Freud machine works like a biscuit joiner (fast, precise, repeatable) but with the strength of dowels, you can do the standard two holes, or even one if you're working on a narrow piece.

I just started using mine, but so far I really like it, no complaints. The edges are perfectly flush. I'm using 1 1/4 spiral maple dowels that seem plenty strong, much more than biscuits.

One of my friends has the Domino, I've heard nothing but rave reviews, if you can afford it, the floating tenon is a better joint. But take into consideration you will always need to by tenons from Festool- unless you can make your own, I don't know.

Rick Fisher

03-05-2009, 2:16 AM

I have the DeWalt and find I dont use it much anymore. I got a domino for fast M&T joints and find that its not great, compared to a M&T joint.

The Domino is a replacement for a biscuit joiner and far ... far superior.

Rob Young

03-05-2009, 9:49 AM

+1 for me too. I LOVE my PC-557 and would recommend it a thousand times over. Here's some reading about a comparison http://www.woodworking.org/WC/GArchive98/9_26mattbisc1.html
I use the FF biscuits for more than just face frames, comes in real handy.

+1 more on the PC-557. The FF biscuits are pretty darn handy.

Paul Fitzgerald

03-05-2009, 11:15 AM

I loved my DeWALT model... until somebody walked off with it. I've considered replacing it several times, but I haven't had the need for one since it grew legs. When a project comes along that needs one, I'll probably still go with the DeWALT.

Paul

Robert Chapman

03-05-2009, 11:25 AM

I don't think that you can go wrong with the Porter Cable. The capacity to use the little biscuits is very handy with smaller pieces. Have had mine for years - use it a lot - no problems.

Jonathan Spool

03-05-2009, 12:36 PM

I've been using my Lamello Top 20 along with a Z2 blade for years. Although I am very happy with it and it has provided me with flawless function and service, the Domino is intruiging. There is only one difference between the Domino and Biscuit joining that presents me with concern:
With the biscuit joiner, I fly through carcass construction with quick pencil marks through the corners, cut, amd assemble. If I am off slightly with my cut it's no big deal as I have a little leway with the biscuit system to slide the panels one way or another a sixteenth or so before the biscuits set up. With the Domino system, it looks like you must be right on with your cuts, as with any M&T joint, and there will be no wiggle room. Is that correct?
Jonathan

Chris Padilla

03-05-2009, 12:59 PM

PC 557 here and it has the option of the smaller blade and allowing the use of FF biscuits. They are handy in small picture frames for strengthening up the joint.

In general, I am of the camp that biscuits don't add that much strength but can be great alignment aids but IT DEPENDS (as usual). :)

I think biscuits add strength in this case: gluing hardwood edge-banding to MDF. And due to the size of the biscuit, it fits well in this case because edge-banding typically isn't very thick and the biscuit is much wider than a domino or a dowel so it doesn't need to penetrate as deeply. It is also a great alignment tool in this case as well. I usually like to only get just a skosh (1/32") above/below what I'm gluing to in edge-banding cases so the biscuits help immensely in this case.

I also think they add strength in mitered (or not) picture frames...especially MDF frames.

Chris Padilla

03-05-2009, 1:02 PM

With the Domino system, it looks like you must be right on with your cuts, as with any M&T joint, and there will be no wiggle room. Is that correct?
Jonathan

Jonathan,

Actually, that is partially incorrect. The domino has a 3-position dial that can alter the width of the mortise. The first one is dead-nuts on, tight as a bug, you can't pull it out once you stick the domino in the mortise. The second adds like 4 mm per side and the third adds like 10 mm per side (don't quote me on how much they add). I use the middle setting on everything so I can get that wiggle room. Works great.

Chris Tsutsui

03-05-2009, 1:04 PM

Chris Padilla

03-05-2009, 1:13 PM

Yeah, the Domino fits very snuggly. It's basically a tight fitting loose tenon.

PC-557 is what I have and it's what a lot of the pro's around my area recommended.

I got my biscuits from harbor freight during a sale. I would use #20 biscuits as much as possible, unless it's too big then use #10 size.

I figured a biscuit is a biscuit... Don't know if there are better biscuits out there I should try...

The Domino has adjustments to make a wider mortise so that one can have wiggle room.

As far as biscuit size goes, it all depends on what you are doing. I've used everything: 20, 10, 0, and FF. They all have their place.

glenn bradley

03-05-2009, 1:33 PM

I had a 557. I got it after much analysis and it is indeed a fine machine. I sold it to a member here because I didn't use it much. I have missed it terribly just not often. I almost bought another one yesterday just to have it before PC messes that up too ;-)

Jim Kountz

03-05-2009, 1:56 PM

I got my Dewalt in 95. Its still going strong and I use it ALOT. I have never done anything to it, not even so much as clean it really. I use it on jobsites, in the shop Ive even used it to trim door casing with when putting hardwood floors down. Still works like a charm after 14 years.

Jonathan Spool

03-05-2009, 2:09 PM

Thanks for the Domino adjust info Chris P. I never knew that was available. Big plus in my book. I like precision when I want to apply it, but also like wiggle room when a project needs to be slapped together quickly, but well.

Chris T. Unfortunately a biscuit is not a biscuit. I have found that some are better than others. I prefer Lamello biscuits as they absorb the glue and lock into the kerf better than others I have (IMHO and if I have stored them well) PC biscuits are OK, and others I used were too inconsistent for my purposes. I would recommend going with any decent machine, but using the Lamello biscuits in any case.
Jonathan

Chris Padilla

03-05-2009, 2:48 PM

I have a mix of Lamello and PC biscuits (they are all mixed together in the same PC storage "tubes"/containers) and I don't really see much of a difference. Some biscuits fit better than others but it wasn't brand dependent. I like a biscuit that is just a hair on the loose side. Tight biscuits get sorted out. I guess when all I have left are fat biscuits, I'll have to put them in a vise and compress them a bit.

I've also had the occasion to cut into my biscuits and see cross-sections: they all appear to have filled the slots admirably so I was happy about that.

Jerome Hanby

03-05-2009, 3:21 PM

I've got the Dewalt, basically because I read about some kind of design change on the PC that was causing problems. It works well, all things being equal, ability to use the FF biscuits would be nice. If I was buying new equipment right this minute, I'd be really tempted by that Freud doweling gizmo that looks and handles like a biscuit joiner...

Don Morris

03-05-2009, 6:35 PM

I have the PC-557 and use it some, even the small FF but not as much as I thought I would. Works as advertised. Use it more more as an alignment aid than seeking strength on long pieces. Guess if I had a dowelmax I might be using that but never felt I really had a need for it. Glue + biscuits have worked so far, in spite of static tests to the contrary.

Tom Cross

03-05-2009, 6:36 PM

I have three biscuit joiners - Ryobi, Dewalt and Lamello Top 20 - plus the Festool Domino.

The Lamello Top 20 is the Rolls Royce of biscuit joiners. It is pricey but well worth the money in my experience. It is absolutley accurate, works without fuss every time. It is my "go to" tool for fastening face frames to carcases, skirts to base cabinets and edge gluing boards for alignment when the boards are long. The Step System is marvelous where you can adjust the blade height in 0.1 mm increments to offset one piece from another and align biscuits in the center of various stock thicknesses. I use the Step System much more than I thought I would. The Ryobi and Dewalt have way too much run out which causes misaligned slots when least expected. My suspicion about this runout issue was confirmed in a tool test a while back and is why I got the Lamello. The Lamello has zero run out and that is why it costs so much more. With the Lamello, I can zip through joinery so quick that I love to use it.

The Festool Domino is my tool of choice for face frame joinery. It is the best for loose tenon joinery. It was a bit disappointing to get it initially after spending nearly $1,000 for the tool and accessories and having to fix the guide pin and fence misalignments that weren't quite right from the factory. It is also a bit finicky to use. That is, one has to plunge at the right speed, hold the body in the right way during plunging and make sure to align everything just right. I always use the tight setting so I can live with the finicky part. It is now natural to hold and plunge correctly so no big deal. It is a great precision tool and I love using it and accept that it is much slower to use than the Lamello. I am really glad I have both tools. Each has its place in my shop.

Stephen Edwards

03-05-2009, 6:40 PM

I have a Makita that I've used for 10-12 years now. It has served me well. I haven't used any other brand so I can't compare it.

Chris Tsutsui

03-05-2009, 7:06 PM

Chris Padilla

03-05-2009, 7:22 PM

Chris P, I missed your post about the domino mortise can be made wider than the domino, it makes sense to have that adjustment on the tool, but then you would have a full gap along one side of the domino. That's like purposely cutting mortises wider than the tenons. It seems like the Domino is more meant for perfect alignment. Actually, I'm not exactly sure why the domino is being compared to the biscuit because I thought they are in different leagues.

If you're thinking of getting a Domino instead of the biscuit, first consider the price and what the tool is supposed to do. Domino may be stronger but it's not even close to being as strong as a real M&T. The Domino also removes more material and needs more dust collection than the biscuit.

Actually, I probably shouldn't have even mentioned the Domino... :D My bad

Well, the M&T joint gets most of its strength in the side versus the ends anway so I don't think it is a big deal to have a gap. Certainly, there are applications where you may not wish to have any gap or can't afford the room.

As to joint strength, check out this thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=99438) and read the FWW article if you haven't seen it.

Gene Howe

03-05-2009, 7:23 PM

My PC-557 Does what I need. What more could I ask?

I'll be 68 years old next month. I don't really foresee me needing it in 35 years, David.:D

David DeCristoforo

03-05-2009, 8:44 PM

"I'll be 68 years old next month. I don't really foresee me needing it in 35 years..."

What... you're just going to quit woodworking when you're 103? What a wus....

Louis Rucci

03-05-2009, 8:44 PM

I want to thank all of you that replied to my question. I'm not going the Festool route due to price. I'll look into the Dewalt, Lamallo and Dowelmax.

Again, many thanks.

Louis

Looking to buy a Biscuit jointer and, based on your experience, would like some inputs on which brands and models you feel I should seriously consider.

Thanks,

Louis

Rob Price

03-05-2009, 10:24 PM

I looked at the dowel max too, but for basically the same price I like the convenience of a power tool with the Freud joiner.

glenn bradley

03-05-2009, 10:40 PM

I've got the Dewalt, basically because I read about some kind of design change on the PC that was causing problems.

PC had to go to the "type 2" after DeWalt sued over a fence design (?). The fence was a goof and there are still "how to fix you type 2" posts out there on the web. The Type 3's are great and I don't even think you will find a type 2 (except used) anymore but it doesn't hurt to check the machine tag; it will say "Type 3" right on it (or used to).

J. Z. Guest

03-12-2009, 4:27 PM

...but I will chip in anyway. :D

I have a Dowelmax, and I love it. But it doesn't completely replace biscuits.

When quick work is more important than precision work, and when the workpieces are thin, biscuits are still viable, and even preferable.

I dug up this thread in a search, because I'm looking for a biscuit joiner to use for reinforcing mitered (beveled?) base trim on a jewelry chest and am going to soon be taking on a TV cabinet job which has the same type of base trim requirement.

I'll use Dowelmax or Kreg for most of the carcass work and for the face frames. But for trim, those tools cut too deep and are not viable.

The consensus here is that older DeWalts are hit or miss. Makita has one vote and great reviews on Amazon. The PC is the runaway favorite; good mix of quality & price. Lamello is very expensive, but the quality shows.

I don't have Lamello money to spend. Would like Ryobi price, but can't deal with a crappy tool.

I'll probably look for a used one.

One more thing: When you folks talk about runout, are you talking about blade wobble on its bearings, or slop in the plunge action?

OK, I lied. One more thing. A 5/32" slot cutting bit for a router table can replace a biscuit joiner in a lot of applications. My application involves joining 45° beveled pieces, and I'm building a jig to try to accomplish this on the router table, but I'm not confident it is going to work out well.

Chris Padilla

03-12-2009, 5:29 PM

Jeremy,

Runout is at the arbor much like a table saw so it will cause blade wobble and thus > 5/32" slots.

It sounds like for your jewelry box, FF biscuits might be the ticket and so you would need to look for the PC 557.

Phil Thien

03-12-2009, 6:04 PM

Jeremy, check out this thread:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=73685

You could do the same thing with your pieces, no complex jig required. Just make a triangle (90-45-45) out of some wood that is a couple of inches thick. Place the triangle flat against your fence with one of the 45's pointing towards your bit. Put your workpiece on the triangle so the bevel is parallel to the shaft of the router bit, and plunge it in.

J. Z. Guest

03-12-2009, 10:11 PM

Phil, thanks! I think I will try that Saturday. I just started to build a jig last night. I cut a bunch of 45s on the table saw and glued it all together. Was going to pocket screw it together tonight. (but forgot it was Chess Night @ Borders) I'm out at a friend's wedding tomorrow.

Regarding the face frames with pocket screws, this is the absolute easiest thing to do. The key is to hold them flat to the bench when you drive the screws in. Otherwise they shift.

I don't believe my slot cutter (a Katana, from MLCSwoodworking) has extra bearings, but I'll sure look.

On another note, I stopped by Menards & Home Depot tonight.

My Menards no longer has the Makita biscuit joiner, only the crap-tastic Tool Shop one. Ick.

Home Depot has the PC (for $220!) and the Ryobi. (for $100) The Ryobi one seems pretty nice. It has positive stops at 0°, 45°, and 90°, and the handle is shaped for pushing it in. Didn't want to feel like I was cheaping out, so decided to hold off for now.

May look online for some refurbs; got a great deal on a Bosch random orbit sander that way.

J. Z. Guest

03-12-2009, 10:42 PM

The Makita consistently gets the highest marks. (of the reasonably-priced ones)

P-C is close second. DW is close third.

Here's the link. (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_hi?url=search-alias%3Dtools&field-keywords=plate+joiner)

There doesn't seem to be a lot of Makita users here.

Edit: attached the ratings distributions.

Irwin Fletcher

03-13-2009, 8:35 AM

I have the Ryobi from HD. It's the only one I've ever had, so I don't have anything to compare it to, but it has done what it's supposed to do without any issues. I'd buy it again.

In my opinion a biscuit joiner is not a complicated tool. If you're not going to be using it that often, I'd get a cheap one and spend the extra money on other tools.

Paul Johnstone

03-13-2009, 10:28 AM

At the time I was making this decsion, the porter cable was $50 more than the Dewalt, but offered the FF biscuit, so I bought that one. The FF biscuit has really been useful, so I'm glad I went that way. I don't know what the price difference is now (if any), but if it's small, I think the FF biscuit is worth more money.

I never anticipated having to replace all my house windows and trim around them. The FF biscuit is awesome for lining up those miters on the 2 1/8 inch wide trim. A domino or #20 biscuit would not work there, obviously.. Every size has its place.

J. Z. Guest

03-14-2009, 7:14 PM

I changed my mind. I'm going with the Porter-Cable, due to the high ratings and ability to take FF biscuits. I like the simpler Makita design better, but FF biscuits are looking attractive to me now, as I am going to be making a bunch of picture frames in the near future.

I can get it for $219 from Amazon, but due to impatience and supporting local stores, I'm just going to spend the extra $20 or so and get it at Home Depot.