Dewalt TrackSaw vs Table saw?

[steve gard]

If you had no tools would you purchase a tracksaw or a table saw? Lets hear some explinations.

thanks

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Steve, you opened a can of worms. Tablesaw, easily. Dados, quickness, accuracy, stability, quality of cut, etc. Those will be questioned by track saw advocates, but thats why I'd pick the tablesaw.

[Tony Bilello]

If you will build furniture or cabinetry, the Table Saw will be the most important tool in your shop. No close seconds.

[Chris Padilla]

Well, look into the Festool line of tools that used a guide. What you are asking about is repalcing a TS with a GCSS (Guided Circular Saw System).

Festool and EZ have been around a bit and the DeWalt is new to the game. The GCSSs are getting better and better all the time and a fair amount of folks have been able to fully replace a TS.

I use both a TS and GCSS as my needs call it. I'm not sure I'm ready to get rid of my TS, however.

Think about it, when we cut wood, we are always doing one of two things:

(1) Pushing the wood through the tool or
(2) Pushing the tool through the wood

One is typically easier, safer, and faster than the other method but it really depends on what you are doing. Frankly, table saws are scary and I've found myself heading to the bandsaw more and more to do my cutting....

[steve gard]

Do you feel comfortable cutting lets say a 4-8" board down to 1" strips with the tracksaw?

[Mikail Khan]

Tablesaw for me. Its more versatile IMHO.

But it depends on what type of work you plan to do.

A track saw is probably better suited to breaking down sheet goods.

MK

[Jim Dailey]

Steve,

I have 3 Festool plunge saws & 1 table saw... And as much as I like my Festool plunge saws.... 3 Festool plunge saws do not equal my Unisaw. Not even close!!!

"Can you rip 1" strips from 8" boards with a track saw"? Yes, but if I had both a track saw & a table saw available.... table saw hands down.

Now if you asked about straight lining a 12 or 16 foot piece of stock or cutting a tapper, especially a long tapper then I'd go for the track saw.

Or if you asked "could a track saw like the DeWalt or Festool replace a panel saw?". I can tell you from experience that my panel saw mostly gathers dust since I started using the Festool plunge saws.

Hope this helps,

jim

[glenn bradley]

Do you feel comfortable cutting lets say a 4-8" board down to 1" strips with the tracksaw?

Like the folks you see that can use a router for everything including mixing cookie dough, yes, folks can cut amazingly accurate and thin strips with guided circ-saws. I use a table saw for those types of cuts. I also use a guided saw for the rare times I break down sheet goods.

P.s. My opinion on the matter is worth less than you paid for it. ;)

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,

If you had no tools would you purchase a tracksaw or a table saw? Lets hear some explinations.
The answer is that one doesn't replace the other, one compliments the other.

[Frank Hagan]

Most woodworkers remain in the "accumulation phase" for their entire lives, so many will opt for both, and use both. But let's say we were counseling a young person just getting into the hobby, one who doesn't have any tools yet. Which does he buy?

A guided circular saw system wins hand's down in this case, IMHO. If you could only have one or the other, and had no other tools, the guided saw gives you the ability to do much of the work of a table saw, and has the added benefit of providing a portable system that can be moved and transported easily. It also is marginally safer for the newbie, especially if there are sheet goods to be cut down to size for his proposed projects.

If he has a circular saw already, then the choice is harder. Clamping a board to sheet goods allows him to use the "panel saw" features of a guided circular saw system without shelling out hundreds of dollars, and the new table saw does better for accurate miters, thin strips, etc.

[Mats Bengtsson]

If you had no tools would you purchase a tracksaw or a table saw? Lets hear some explinations.

thanks

If you have no tools yet, you need to be able to handle all kinds of cuts. A table saw does a number of cuts a lot better and faster and more repeatable than a track saw, but as soon as the material is too big to push through the machine, or too far from the table saw, you need a track saw.

When later you have gotten a number of tools, table saw will be one of the absolutley most important ones, but until you have both table saw and track saw, if you need to pick only one, you need to take the track saw.

Look at ordinary non super enthusisatic neighbours. You will find a lot of them having a track saw and almost none with a table saw, and making do. Then look at all people with a table saw, they might swear on you needing to select the table saw first, but they will to 99% own a track saw as well (and as it is said, almost never used but it will not be sold due to undefined reasons).

But if you are into woodworking, you will not do well without the table saw.

--- Mats ---

[Chris Padilla]

Mats,

Since you're "over the pond", what is more prevalent in a "typical" woodworker's shop in Europe: a table saw, a bandsaw, or a GCSS (guided circular saw system or track saw). What is considered the central tool?

[Mats Bengtsson]

Mats,

Since you're "over the pond", what is more prevalent in a "typical" woodworker's shop in Europe: a table saw, a bandsaw, or a GCSS (guided circular saw system or track saw). What is considered the central tool?

There is always some discussions, but almost everyone would say table saw.

--- Mats ---

[steve gard]

I've seen all the hype about cutting down sheet goods with a tracksaw, but does it have the cabability to rip down boards, and if so what is the smallest width you would rip off.

If you can't tell, I am debating a low priced table saw vs the tracksaw


thanks

[Mats Bengtsson]

I've seen all the hype about cutting down sheet goods with a tracksaw, but does it have the cabability to rip down boards, and if so what is the smallest width you would rip off.

If you can't tell, I am debating a low priced table saw vs the tracksaw


thanks

This is now dangerous to reply on, so I start with saying my view is table saw is needed.

But then I add due to its repeatability of cut width/length and speed in adjustment of width and cross cut.

The track saw (Festool) is extremely accurate and the track comes in many lengths. As long as you have a track long enough, you can rip as little material as you want and with extreme precision. You are making the adjustment aiming the rubber lining of the track, which was wide when it came and got cut off using the track saw, so it exactly matches the cut you get. You adjust the saw to the track to a limit where you can not feel the saw moving when trying, so there is no slack.

Thus, a cut with the track saw is extremely accurate. If I rip off a piece of a board with the track saw, and it happens that the width is just a little thicker than the saw blade, I will easily as a side effect produce a one eighth inch wide strip of the material, which is smooth enough to almost go for sanded and with perfect width all the way.

--- Mats ---

[James Carmichael]

I've seen all the hype about cutting down sheet goods with a tracksaw, but does it have the cabability to rip down boards, and if so what is the smallest width you would rip off.

If you can't tell, I am debating a low priced table saw vs the tracksaw


thanks

You can rip as skinny a piece as you want, provided the stock you're ripping is wide enough to secure the guide to.

Depends on what you're planning to build and what stock to use. If you have no tools, as in no jointer or planer, a GCSS and table-mounter router might make more sense, IMO, as a table saw needs a jointed edge to index off of (yes, you can edge-joint on the TS, but it's a PITA).

[steve gard]

This is now dangerous to reply on, so I start with saying my view is table saw is needed.

But then I add due to its repeatability of cut width/length and speed in adjustment of width and cross cut.

The track saw (Festool) is extremely accurate and the track comes in many lengths. As long as you have a track long enough, you can rip as little material as you want and with extreme precision. You are making the adjustment aiming the rubber lining of the track, which was wide when it came and got cut off using the track saw, so it exactly matches the cut you get. You adjust the saw to the track to a limit where you can not feel the saw moving when trying, so there is no slack.

Thus, a cut with the track saw is extremely accurate. If I rip off a piece of a board with the track saw, and it happens that the width is just a little thicker than the saw blade, I will easily as a side effect produce a one eighth inch wide strip of the material, which is smooth enough to almost go for sanded and with perfect width all the way.

--- Mats ---

thanks so much for your replies, and you may notice this thread may evolve.

The question arises now, what is the smallest width board you can mount the track to?

[Mats Bengtsson]

thanks so much for your replies, and you may notice this thread may evolve.

The question arises now, what is the smallest width board you can mount the track to?

Good question, and the key to using a track saw. The answer will surprise you.

First, with a track saw instead of a table saw, you need to rethink your way of working a little. The working table will sooner or later have to be used to make your cut into (in a similar way to in the table saw placing a piece behind the piece you are cutting, in order to prevent tare out, or in order to improve your capability to keeping the angle to the fence).

As soon as you accept that your work table should now and then be used to cut into (look at Festool MFT tables), the answer become "no limit other than what is practical to use for rest of the work".

If the piece is too small to support the track, you take another wide enough piece of same thickness and place the track so it rests on both pieces, with the rubber over the piece you are cutting. If the piece is not wide enough to feel stable, you place a piece on the other side as well. This is very similar to the usage of a zero clearance insert and a feather board in the table saw (the table below the piece becomes a zero clearance insert, the side piece a feather board). Since there is a knife behind the blade, the piece can not wobble into the blade unless it is ridiculously thin, and since it is pressed from bottom by the board you are cutting into, and from top by the track.

(Almost) all problems you can figure out with cutting using a track saw is since you are not yet thinking in terms of cutting into the table below the track saw. As soon as you accept that as a principle, it changes everything (same thing when you route).

--- Mats ---

[Ed Calkins]

Does having a good band saw -- which works well for ripping solid wood in most cases, and a good CS and guide system (like Festool) make it easier to give up the table saw? I am getting close to facing the same question as being discussed in this thread, I now have a great band saw and love it along with several chop saws (old Makitas that are very accurate) and an ancient 8" craftsman table saw. I was originally thinking of adding a new cabinet saw but am more and more considering trying the festool system. But cutting small pieces for a box or something similar seems to beg for the table saw and a good cross-cut sled or ?? Ed

[Mats Bengtsson]

Does having a good band saw -- which works well for ripping solid wood in most cases, and a good CS and guide system (like Festool) make it easier to give up the table saw? I am getting close to facing the same question as being discussed in this thread, I now have a great band saw and love it along with several chop saws (old Makitas that are very accurate) and an ancient 8" craftsman table saw. I was originally thinking of adding a new cabinet saw but am more and more considering trying the festool system. But cutting small pieces for a box or something similar seems to beg for the table saw and a good cross-cut sled or ?? Ed

I would say you are right, but extending it to say a box rather than a cross cut is a typical place to use the table saw, due to repetition. If we ignore the jointer, with the table saw, you would define the width and then rip your wood to right width. If you rip form one piece of material, or from many, you still set it only once. After that defining the length of the sides in one of the directions, and now cross cutting your material (for square using only the miter on one side and for true length using the miter with the fence as a stop on the other side). Again, if you do two sides, 4 sides, or 20 sides does not matter, you defined the length ones, and then you use your miter. Next a new length for the sides in the other direction, and same repeated cutting. If you would be a little off in length of the sides is not too bad, as long as the opposite side is off exactly as much (repetition).

The track saw can do the same thing, with the same precision, but not easily repetitive precision. The ripping is defined fo the piece of the material under the track. If you need more material, you need to set the rip width again (as soon as you move the material, you are once again setting up the track). to be sure of getting the same rip with, you either trust your measurement, or you make a small jig (making a jig is easier on the table saw since it would normally involve a quick rip of a scrap piece followed by a couple of cross cuts and two screws). Or you buy a Festool thing called "parallel stops".

Then the cross cutting. Now here is one of the two places where the track saw sufffers the most. You need to set up the cross cut once for every cut on the material. And you need to square it up once for every material and every side of the piece. Setting up a square using the track is not easy using only the track and no jig (you can not square against the side of the track since the track need to stick out on both sides of the pieces). You need some aid (be it a drawn line (not repetitive) or a jig, Festools square jig is called MFT and is really a table. Myself, I do not use a jig for this, for small pieces I use the table saw, for bigger pieces I use the miter saw, only if it is not repetitive would I use the track saw). You can reduce the number of set ups needed if you can place all the pieces side by side, but that can only be done if they are already roughly cut to length or at least cut in as many pieces as you need. Roughly cutting the pieces to length would be done most easy on the table saw, or the band saw if the length is suitable for the band saw, or a jig saw. Again, the weakness of the track saw is the lack of repetitive use of the setting. Even worse, since setting the angle is part of the setting, the weakness occurs not only once per piece, but once per side per piece. The only good repettitve jig for this will be the use of some kind of table with a jig mounted onto the table, supporting both the side of the piece, as well as the stop for the track.

Festool has the extra parts needed, both the MFT table, as well as the CMS table will work beutifully. But then you are comparing a table saw against a track saw converted to a table saw. When doing that comparison, a good true table saw will beat the Festool table saw conversion. That would require another thread though, because it would actually take an expensive good table saw to beat it, but on the other hand the Festool combination would have cost you as much as or more than a good table saw. The benefit with the Festool version is what they call "semi stationary", you can have your "track saw version of table saw" transported and mounted somewhere else than your shop in very short time, or in a shop with very little space, since it is more of a "station" than a fix table saw, and you can convert it back to a track saw when needed (rip cutting and cross cutting really large boards into smaller pieces before going to the table saw).

The second place where the track saw looses to the table saw is if you do dadoos, at least with the Festool saw. You can not insert a dadoo blade. thus you have to do repetititve cross cutting. and quick repetitive cross cutting with a track saw, as was mentioned above, is not the best usage of a track saw (so if you use a track saw instead of a table saw, you will be using a router a lot more). Also, even with the Festool converted track saw, height setting is not good enough for doing dadoos. Once again the word against the track saw is "repetitive". When you set the height, you can not make it a little heigher or lower like on a table saw, you set it where you want it to be. Thus fine tuning height on the Festool version of saw is not easy (but they have that on the router, so again, you are back to doing joinery using the router rather than the saw).

--- Mats ---

[Paul Greathouse]

Eurekazone/EZ Smart rail user weighting in here. You have recieved a great deal of valuable information from others in this thread. Let me add just a little to what has been said. I know you started the thread asking about the Dewalt track saw so if you have already considered the Eurekazone track and decided against, please just disregard the following information.

I built an entire set of kitchen cabinets and 3 sets of bathroom vanities with the EZ Smart rail system. Dados are possible with the EZ Smart's router guide (SRK). The router works on the same track as the saw. It you use a 3hp router Dado's will be almost as fast as with a table saw and they will be just as accurate. Once you get used to it, the setup is just as fast as the tablesaw.

Jointing can easily be done on a router table with a fence that has independently adjustable sides. Tablesaws can achieve really accurate miters but my Dewalt and Bosch compound miter saws are accurate also.

I own an old Delta contractor tablesaw that I used for years. The blade angle adjuster broke not long after I got into using the EZ smart stuff. After realizing the accuracy I could achieve with the EZ rails I didn't bother fixing my old tablesaw.

I don't build furniture, if I did I may consider a good cabinetsaw for the ease of working with thick stock. If all your going to do is case work you will be dealing mostly with 1" or less material. A guided saw system with a guided router will replace a tablesaw for that kind of work if you want it to.

As for the smallest width board, don't think along the lines of mounting the small board to the rail. Instead clamp a stop block under the rail to control the width of the piece being cut. Then slide the small piece up against the stop block and cut. That is how I cut the stiles and rails for my cabinets before I built my PBB (Power Bench Bridge)

See the Eurekazone forum or check out their website for more info on the PBB. It's a more controlled and faster way of using the rails.

[Ed Calkins]

Mats, Paul, Steve -- others -- while not my thread I have a similar question/decision and really want to thank you for the time you have put into your responses -- very enlightning. I need to think through the table saw issue more and have time as I just got a new bandsaw and have enough other saws of various types to get by for awhile. I have been using a poor man's guided saw for about 40 years -- I clamp a straight edge on sheets of plywood and use my old Black and Decker CS for cutting large pieces of plywood. I don't expect to make cabinets or to use a lot of sheet goods but it will happen at times -- most of my work (I think) will be solid wood. I think if I ever replace my old Craftsman 8" table saw it will be with a SawStop cabinet saw so that will be about a $4K investment. Any guess (I can do the research of course) on what it would approx cost to get the appropriate Festool plunge saw and a guide system, table, etc. -- or other systems that have been mentioned -- that replace (I understand it is not a complete replacement for all types of work) the table saw? Thks again for your time and knowledge, Ed

[Mats Bengtsson]

Eurekazone/EZ Smart rail user weighting in here. You have recieved a great deal of valuable information from others in this thread. Let me add just a little to what has been said. I know you started the thread asking about the Dewalt track saw so if you have already considered the Eurekazone track and decided against, please just disregard the following information.

I built an entire set of kitchen cabinets and 3 sets of bathroom vanities with the EZ Smart rail system. Dados are possible with the EZ Smart's router guide (SRK). The router works on the same track as the saw. It you use a 3hp router Dado's will be almost as fast as with a table saw and they will be just as accurate. Once you get used to it, the setup is just as fast as the tablesaw.

Jointing can easily be done on a router table with a fence that has independently adjustable sides. Tablesaws can achieve really accurate miters but my Dewalt and Bosch compound miter saws are accurate also.

I own an old Delta contractor tablesaw that I used for years. The blade angle adjuster broke not long after I got into using the EZ smart stuff. After realizing the accuracy I could achieve with the EZ rails I didn't bother fixing my old tablesaw.

I don't build furniture, if I did I may consider a good cabinetsaw for the ease of working with thick stock. If all your going to do is case work you will be dealing mostly with 1" or less material. A guided saw system with a guided router will replace a tablesaw for that kind of work if you want it to.

As for the smallest width board, don't think along the lines of mounting the small board to the rail. Instead clamp a stop block under the rail to control the width of the piece being cut. Then slide the small piece up against the stop block and cut. That is how I cut the stiles and rails for my cabinets before I built my PBB (Power Bench Bridge)

See the Eurekazone forum or check out their website for more info on the PBB. It's a more controlled and faster way of using the rails.

Interesting additional information. I do not know the eurekazone system, but is sounds a lot like the Festool system (where similarly as I already has mentioned router instead of saw is used for Dadoos, also on Festool using the saw fence for distance. Also, the router table allows for jointing in same way as described above). I have used both options, and do not count them as similarly good as the non router method.

Anyway: For Dadoos, what I find is that there is a sideways force occuring when doing a dadoo, which does not exist with the table saw. With a repettitive setup, it is the material being moved, and the side force then disturbs the accuracy of the material movement, so this is an area where the repetitive action suffers with a router instead of saw. Also, doing shelves where you for example do long mortises of say half inch width and half inch depth, or wider/deeper, doing them in one single run to full depth with a router bit is pressing the routing a lot harder than a Dadoo set up on a saw. Would not want to keep that pressure for a lot of repetitive pieces.

For jointing: The jointing width possible is decided by the router bit length, which has a shaft only half inch wide and inserted only at one end. You will not be able to handle material heigher than around 2 inches, and at that time you are once again putting a lot of pressure onto your router bit. Thus the setup becomes limited to being an edge jointer, and has to be used carefully.

--- Mats ---

[Michael Parr]

Eurekazone/EZ Smart rail user weighting in here. You have recieved a great deal of valuable information from others in this thread. Let me add just a little to what has been said. I know you started the thread asking about the Dewalt track saw so if you have already considered the Eurekazone track and decided against, please just disregard the following information.

I built an entire set of kitchen cabinets and 3 sets of bathroom vanities with the EZ Smart rail system. Dados are possible with the EZ Smart's router guide (SRK). The router works on the same track as the saw. It you use a 3hp router Dado's will be almost as fast as with a table saw and they will be just as accurate. Once you get used to it, the setup is just as fast as the tablesaw.

Jointing can easily be done on a router table with a fence that has independently adjustable sides. Tablesaws can achieve really accurate miters but my Dewalt and Bosch compound miter saws are accurate also.

I own an old Delta contractor tablesaw that I used for years. The blade angle adjuster broke not long after I got into using the EZ smart stuff. After realizing the accuracy I could achieve with the EZ rails I didn't bother fixing my old tablesaw.

I don't build furniture, if I did I may consider a good cabinetsaw for the ease of working with thick stock. If all your going to do is case work you will be dealing mostly with 1" or less material. A guided saw system with a guided router will replace a tablesaw for that kind of work if you want it to.

As for the smallest width board, don't think along the lines of mounting the small board to the rail. Instead clamp a stop block under the rail to control the width of the piece being cut. Then slide the small piece up against the stop block and cut. That is how I cut the stiles and rails for my cabinets before I built my PBB (Power Bench Bridge)

See the Eurekazone forum or check out their website for more info on the PBB. It's a more controlled and faster way of using the rails.

I put about $1500 into the Eureka zone system with my own design for the PBB. After seeing my brother hurt him self pretty bad as a kid on a table saw I am glad to see how the EZ system works. I have done 2 easy projects with the harder ones to come. With a SRK (Sliding Router Kit), Router, Circular saw, Drill and Orbital sander there is nothing that I cant manage. The only think I wish I had is a surface planer but then I might just go buy a good hand planer to solve that issue. As for safty I have never doubted the length or width of cut (did 1/8 trimming of splines to make PBB table). Dino has done a great job to make tools that put the user no matter what skill (Just outside begginer) at ease. I used a table saw at the local shop and felt a lot of anxiety every time I would make a short cut. I had to always think where is my push stick is.

As for the greatest aspect of the difference between a table saw and a guide saw is that when the wife kicks me out of the garage (right now taking 1/3 of the garage up) I can stand my table against the wall and lean the saw horses against it. With a table saw (not a contractor saw cause you should go for the best) I would have no room in the current configuration. Also the nice thing about the PBB table is that with sacrificial tops and the ability to rearange the slidding rails around I can do almost any configuration I want. If I had unlimited room and money I would definatly go with a TS but with limited space and cash I am really enjoying the EZ system.

[Mats Bengtsson]

Mats, Paul, Steve -- others -- while not my thread I have a similar question/decision and really want to thank you for the time you have put into your responses -- very enlightning. I need to think through the table saw issue more and have time as I just got a new bandsaw and have enough other saws of various types to get by for awhile. I have been using a poor man's guided saw for about 40 years -- I clamp a straight edge on sheets of plywood and use my old Black and Decker CS for cutting large pieces of plywood. I don't expect to make cabinets or to use a lot of sheet goods but it will happen at times -- most of my work (I think) will be solid wood. I think if I ever replace my old Craftsman 8" table saw it will be with a SawStop cabinet saw so that will be about a $4K investment. Any guess (I can do the research of course) on what it would approx cost to get the appropriate Festool plunge saw and a guide system, table, etc. -- or other systems that have been mentioned -- that replace (I understand it is not a complete replacement for all types of work) the table saw? Thks again for your time and knowledge, Ed

I can not give you the cost in dollar, but I can tell you what is needed to be able to compare with a table saw on the Festool side (including Dadoo capability). I would expect Festool to come up more expensive but do not know the usa market. If you add some additional rails to the setup below, you will be a lot more flexible (and have spent more money). So in the end, if flexibility and "stove away" is your main target, the Festool solution is good, but if you can handle the space, a table saw is better and probably cheaper, on the other hand, you will then still need some hand tools.

First, to compare with a table saw, as mentioned both by me and Paul for eurekazone, you need to include both router and saw into the comparison. With Festool, this means including the modules to mount the tools in the CMS table. In order to do the "against fence settings" as is mentioned, you need both the table and the rip cutting fence (also used by the router) and the side extension table (base table is very very narrow). In order to slide the material, you need the sliding table, and you will need one additional angle stop in order not to overcut. Festool do not truly support t-tracks, so you need the Festool counterparts.

You can find all of these under "semi stationary" CMS table parts in festool.co.uk. In Usa, the web site seem to be only selling the MFT table version. The advantage with that version is that you get the "free hand" routing/sawing rails in the package, the disadvantage is that material outside the table is a lot harder to handle than on the CMS table (which like any table saw can handle larger material if you can only support it outside the table.

--- Mats ---

[Brian Holvenstot]

I've seen all the hype about cutting down sheet goods with a tracksaw, but does it have the cabability to rip down boards, and if so what is the smallest width you would rip off.

If you can't tell, I am debating a low priced table saw vs the tracksaw


thanks

This is probably an important point in this thread, you are debating between a low priced table saw or a track saw. What is your idea of "Low Priced"? I would saw a tracksaw would be a better investment than a benchtop table saw. But if you have the space a contractors saw is not really that much more cost, but 10 times better of a saw.

I recently got on board with the EZ system as my space requirements dictated what would work for me. I have a single car garage, that is my storage area, laundry room, workshop, etc... so space is important. I have a nice router table with lift, EZ system on a rolling Square bench. I have enough room to add a band saw, so that is going to be my next big purchase.

I would look at the projects you want to work towards and see what tools are going to give you the best results.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

TS hands down...you can't do dados with a tracksaw.

[Joe Hardesty]

TS hands down...you can't do dados with a tracksaw.

Technically that is true, but I can use that track to guide my router and cut dados faster than I can change the blade in the TS.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Yeah, I do router dados with a Rockler clamp guide, too, but when he said 'if you had no tools' I didn't consider the router.

[Dino Makropoulos]

Yeah, I do router dados with a Rockler clamp guide, too, but when he said 'if you had no tools' I didn't consider the router.

Kelly,
Run your saw few times? :rolleyes:...
Technically?;)

[Chris Padilla]

I guess if one uses a flat-grind blade in one's CS (similar to a ripping blade), cutting dadoes should be possible with a GCSS (Guided Saw Circular System).

[J. Z. Guest]

Interesting thread.

My system is to have a high-end portable table saw. The Rigid, TS2400. It has an outstanding fence, and a soft-start, electronically-controlled motor.

Later, I bought a $20 edge guide and a nice 5-1/2" Skil circular saw. Everything together is less than $600, and there is nothing I can't do with this combination.

[Alan Frazier]

If you had no tools would you purchase a tracksaw or a table saw? Lets hear some explinations.

thanks
Tablesaw, the tracksaw seems great for cutting up plywood but with a skillsaw you can do that. You can do a lot more with a tablesaw.

[Burt Waddell]

This question comes often and I'm always amused at the replies. Most people haven't experienced using both tools.

In the 2004-2005 time frame, I had cancer, open heart surgery and hernia surgery. I needed to find an easier way to work. At that time I was a die hard table saw guy - had 3 unisaws in my small commerical shop. I ordered a EZ set from Hartville tool just to handle plywood. My employees thought I had lost it. Over time, we started using the guide system more and more. The unisaws, my over arm pin router and panel saws are gone.

The EZ Power Bench Bridge has opened up a entire new world of woodworking. I missed the ability to be able to quickly set a unifence and make as many cuts of that size as I need. Solution: replace the fence on the power bench with a unifence.

We've developed ways to make raised panl doors on the power bench.

You asked how small you can cut? As thin as it is possible to cut on any saw.

Burt

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Kelly,
Run your saw few times? :rolleyes:...
Technically?;)

Dino...sorry, I don't understand the question, but yes I run my saw six days a week.

[Michael Parr]

He has a video that he runs his saw about 12 times and makes a nice dato. I use the SRK with the EZ system and use my router to cut perfect datos. After working on making a night stand today I am sold that the EZ system offers a lot more functionality to what the TS would do with the space I have.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I get it now...thanks for clearing that up, it's getting late. I can't run dados with the blades I buy...they are ATB's. Nor would I want to run any tool more than once down a track to make one. I will probably never do another dado on the TS. The router does a much better job of it.

I will never again use any guide that isn't one piece, btw. The one I have is no longer straight at the joint and it cost me a $200 door to find out. I still wish I'd bought that one that had a 108" rail....Penn State [I think] used to sell it for $100...that was a deal! These days I use an 8' level and two clamps.

[Ed Calkins]

:confused: Wow, this has been an educational thread. Whenever one asks about tools, machines, size jointer, whatever, the obvious question (and rightfully so) is "what are you going to build"?? I wish I knew. I am setting up a woodshop as a hobby -- have some furniture projects on the list and a small wine celler to build racks for --- but my projects will evolve (hopefully) as I proceed. I have enjoyed the "design" of my shop and have started replacing my archaic tools with new/different choices. I have the bandsaw, the dust collection (not in the original plan), will soon have the jointer, and not sure what I will do about a TS (have an old 8" Craftsman as I mentioned before) or guided CS system. I read this thread a few times and went through the large Festool catalog that has everything in it. I think I considered all the advice here while realizing that not all views are consistent due to different usage patterns etc. I have learned that these track systems can replace the functions of a table saw. But, I think the advice I am getting is that the TS would be best for me -- I actually was hoping to get directed away from a TS. A few considerations as applies to me: 1) I have room for the TS. 2) I will probably get a SawStop or similar quality cabinet saw. 3) I don't have any need to use the tools at a job site. 4) I will not be building lots of cabinets (maybe none) 5) Limited use of sheet goods and the few I use I can break down with an informal guide and CS. So I guess I would appreciate an assessment of my conclusion and was wondering if there is anything a track guide system can do (other than the sheet goods handling) better than a good TS? I think my work will be mostly solid wood projects. Thanks much for all the great advice and comments. Ed

[Luther Oswalt]

I think that I should like to have a new Makitia as opposed to any other. It would just suppilment my table saw. My use would be to break down plywood. The Makita looks very nice with nice features ... in was in one of the mags this month along with Delta and Festool. Having said that ... my 1x attached to a pc of masonite works quite well!
P.S. and is a lot cheaper!
Leo

[phil harold]

If space is limited go with a track saw. to rip a full sheet of plywood you would need less room than a table saw

you also said "low priced table saw", which needs to be clarifed, portable, contractor, or cabinet saw?

[Paul Johnstone]

But let's say we were counseling a young person just getting into the hobby, one who doesn't have any tools yet. Which does he buy?

A guided circular saw system wins hand's down in this case, IMHO. .

I respectfully disagree, because there is another option. Buy a tablesaw and an inexpensive circular saw. You can get a decent circular saw for less than $100. Make your own straightedge guide.

I know hypothetically, it's just one or the other,but if he can't buy a plain circular saw, he's not going to be able to afford wood to do projects with.

There's no need to buy a $500 or so guided circular saw (plus buy/make some kind of equivalent to the Festool MFT) if you have a good tablesaw. Sure, they are a nice luxury, but I still don't have one.
The tablesaw does 97% of the cuts, and a regular circular saw does the other 3%.

The only exception I would make is if this new woodworker was not strong enough to handle full sheets of plywood, and planned on doing a lot of plywood work. The other exception is if they had no space for a tablesaw.

[Paul Johnstone]

. Any guess (I can do the research of course) on what it would approx cost to get the appropriate Festool plunge saw and a guide system, table, etc. -- or other systems that have been mentioned -- that replace (I understand it is not a complete replacement for all types of work) the table saw? Thks again for your time and knowledge, Ed

http://www.mcfeelys.com/search/festool+plunge+saw

Festool prices are the same everywhere. It looks like the kit is either $1017 or $1142. And then you have to add on the vac if you want dust collection.

For that money, you can get a nice tablesaw, which is so much more versatile and repeatable.

[phil harold]

since you titled the thread Dewalt TrackSaw vs Table saw

did you go to Dewalts site?
http://www.dewalt.com/us/tracksaw/applications/index.html

then click on

TrackSaw vs Table saw

[Chris Padilla]

http://www.mcfeelys.com/search/festool+plunge+saw

Festool prices are the same everywhere. It looks like the kit is either $1017 or $1142. And then you have to add on the vac if you want dust collection.

For that money, you can get a nice tablesaw, which is so much more versatile and repeatable.

Keep in mind that a track saw is likely to be SAFER to use versus a table saw. Since you are moving the tool through the wood (wood that is stationary, clamped, etc.), the likelihood of kickback is reduced quite a bit. This might be important to a newbie.

[John Schreiber]

Lots of good comments above. I'm in a similar situation. I've mostly used non-powered hand tools. I've got a circular saw which I think cost me $40 about 10 years ago and I can do pretty well with that. I'm planning to purchase a guided rail (EZ-Smart) system.

A table saw has this spinning blade sticking up right near where your hands are going to be. That seems to be a natural part of woodworking until you start thinking of other ways which are safer.

We are all used to thinking in terms of a table saw. Once you start thinking in terms of a rail guided system, you find that there is very little they can't do. Somethings they do better, some they do worse, but I think it's pretty even trade off.

I didn't see where anyone had answered the question about how narrow can the stock be for a guided rail system. With the system I mentioned above, there needs to be ~1/2" on side which will be under the rail. Using the more expensive clamps, they claim you only need 1/8".

[Greg Pavlov]

I've seen all the hype about cutting down sheet goods with a tracksaw, but does it have the cabability to rip down boards, and if so what is the smallest width you would rip off. ....
I've ripped a 6' length of 5/4 maple with no problems and ending up with an extremely straight edge. You can rip as narrow a width as you wish, I haven't run into a limitation yet. The issue is the width of the remainder of the board: if it is much narrower than the track - which is pretty wide, all things considered - you will have difficulties. One solution is to butt another board of exactly the same thickness up against the board you are cutting and let the track span both of them, but you then should consider clamping the assembly down because you can easily get slippage otherwise. Overall, I would rather rip longer stock with a tracksaw than a table saw, mainly because I feel I have more control doing so, but I think that someone who has a lot of experience with the tablesaw would get such cuts done more quickly on the table saw.

[Mats Bengtsson]

Lots of good comments above. I'm in a similar situation. I've mostly used non-powered hand tools. I've got a circular saw which I think cost me $40 about 10 years ago and I can do pretty well with that. I'm planning to purchase a guided rail (EZ-Smart) system.

A table saw has this spinning blade sticking up right near where your hands are going to be. That seems to be a natural part of woodworking until you start thinking of other ways which are safer.

We are all used to thinking in terms of a table saw. Once you start thinking in terms of a rail guided system, you find that there is very little they can't do. Somethings they do better, some they do worse, but I think it's pretty even trade off.

I didn't see where anyone had answered the question about how narrow can the stock be for a guided rail system. With the system I mentioned above, there needs to be ~1/2" on side which will be under the rail. Using the more expensive clamps, they claim you only need 1/8".

There are a number of answers on the minimum width than can be cut. Most (mine included) say there is no limit, as long as you add an equally thick board at the side, under the rail, and if really thin stock to cut from, at both sides.

--- Mats ---

[Greg Pavlov]

....Then the cross cutting. Now here is one of the two places where the track saw sufffers the most. You need to set up the cross cut once for every cut on the material. And you need to square it up once for every material and every side of the piece. Setting up a square using the track is not easy using only the track and no jig (you can not square against the side of the track since the track need to stick out on both sides of the pieces). You need some aid (be it a drawn line (not repetitive) or a jig, Festools square jig is called MFT and is really a table. .....
I have one of the MFT tables with the crosscut assembly and in general I would much rather do cross cuts on that than on a table saw: moving a saw down a track is much easier - for me - than sliding a long board crosswise against a blade, and I've rigged up a simple assembly that gives me a stop out several feet for repetitive cuts (I could build/bolt another table for this and to hold cut pieces but haven't gotten around to it yet). With the stop, you simply move the cut piece out of the way, shove the rest of the board over to the stop, and run the saw through it again. It seems easier to me than running a board through the table saw.
One of the shortcomings of this setup is that it really does not work all that well with thin stock: the guide rail is not stiff enough to hold the saw level and worse, it tends to allow the saw to tilt, creating an angled cut. You can put another board under the one you are cutting, of course, but you definitely are slowed down dealing with this.

[Greg Pavlov]

http://www.mcfeelys.com/search/festool+plunge+saw

Festool prices are the same everywhere. It looks like the kit is either $1017 or $1142. And then you have to add on the vac if you want dust collection.
.....
If you go this route, you would also want to buy at least one guide rail, preferably longer than the one that comes in the kit, for ripping stock: the size of the kit's rail, etc is too small to permit much in the way of ripping stock.

[Mats Bengtsson]

I have one of the MFT tables with the crosscut assembly and in general I would much rather do cross cuts on that than on a table saw: moving a saw down a track is much easier - for me - than sliding a long board crosswise against a blade, and I've rigged up a simple assembly that gives me a stop out several feet for repetitive cuts (I could build/bolt another table for this and to hold cut pieces but haven't gotten around to it yet). With the stop, you simply move the cut piece out of the way, shove the rest of the board over to the stop, and run the saw through it again. It seems easier to me than running a board through the table saw.
One of the shortcomings of this setup is that it really does not work all that well with thin stock: the guide rail is not stiff enough to hold the saw level and worse, it tends to allow the saw to tilt, creating an angled cut. You can put another board under the one you are cutting, of course, but you definitely are slowed down dealing with this.

Yes, the MFT table (or the square jig as I called it) has a number of nice advantages, I am often looking at it, and mimicking its functionality in parts. With pieces the right size for the table (wide enough for the whole rail plus a little more, and short enough for the cut to remain on the table, it can really be rigged for quick and accurate cross cuts. But if you have that whole set up, what you really have is a table saw, although maybe more correctly called a "saw table" than "table saw". The FS-PA (which I use when not using the table saw) will within a little more narrow size limit give you similar repetitive cross cuts. :)

--- Mats ---

[Greg Pavlov]

since you titled the thread Dewalt TrackSaw vs Table saw

did you go to Dewalts site?
http://www.dewalt.com/us/tracksaw/applications/index.html

then click on

TrackSaw vs Table saw
I notice that almost all of the cutting is being done on foam/polystyrene(?) boards. This looked like a good idea to me, but then I started wondering about the dust this stuff will kick up, and maybe fumes if the blade gets hot enough. Is that ok to breathe?

[Chris Tsutsui]

Nice thread.

I started off with a Milwaukee 7-1/4" tilt loc circular saw. Used this with a framers square and long metal straight edge. I managed to build a tornado foosball table in my mother in-laws garage with this. It was sometimes confusing measuring distances to the fence and compensating for blade thickness and all that math... but I got the hang of it.

The CS feels safe to use given you have saw horses and extra boards as wood support. (Plus good clamps)

But then after that and starting to love woodworking I got a Bosch 10" table saw. Setting the fence and repeat cuts was now easier though a bit more intimidating.

For now, I whip out the Circ Saw and straight edge for some cuts that I don't feel comfortable doing on the TS, but for the most part I use the table saw. It became a lot of fun once I got everything aligned. (Still I check the measurement from fence to blade with a tape measure out of habit)

I consider the track saw to be a step above a CS + straight edge. Can't justify the festool one right now though.

[Dino Makropoulos]

I didn't see where anyone had answered the question about how narrow can the stock be for a guided rail system. With the system I mentioned above, there needs to be ~1/2" on side which will be under the rail. Using the more expensive clamps, they claim you only need 1/8".

John,
Here is a video with one answer.
You can come up with many ways to cut narrow pieces.
If I don't have the smart clamps available, I use clear packing tape
and tape the narrow pieces to a wide board.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrrjLYn-6WY
Enjoy.

If I use the Power bench, I don't use tape or clamps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiJJQp1EPKI&feature=channel_page


Dino.
Eurekazone.

[Mats Bengtsson]

John,
Here is a video with one answer.
You can come up with many ways to cut narrow pieces.
If I don't have the smart clamps available, I use clear packing tape
and tape the narrow pieces to a wide board.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrrjLYn-6WY
Enjoy.

If I use the Power bench, I don't use tape or clamps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiJJQp1EPKI&feature=channel_page


Dino.
Eurekazone.

The reason for the worry about narrow widths, and the discussion about smart clamps, is based on not yet having moved to the concept that goes with a track saw: Accept to make your cuts into the table below.

The EZ system in video one shows what is needed to make a cut into a board if the track is high above the surface below. But you do not need the track to be that high, or even want the track to be that high above the surface below (the cut will be cleaner if the piece is sandwiched between a rail and another surface).

The powerbench in video two shows how much easier it becomes if the material is sandwiched between the rail and a table in which there is a place for the saw blade to run lower then the table surface. It is a that time it starts becoming a lot easier to use a rail.

Now compare to the Festool or Dewalt rails, they are also ment to lie flat on the surface of the piece you are cutting, sandwiching the piece between rail and table surface. The MFT table do not have a specific slot for the saw like the powerbench, instead you make your cut into the MFT table wherever you feel is needed to best make your cut. It is that last thing, cutting through the material which is sandwiched between rail and table, that makes using a rail so easy.

I have not yet (might never) invested in the MFT table, instead I use a particle board below the rail, giving the same possibilities to cut, although not having as easy to repeat some setups as the powerbench/MFT table allows for, amongst other things earlier needing an additional piece of same thickness as the one I cut into to create a stable surface for the rail.

--- Mats ---

[Greg Pavlov]

....... But if you have that whole set up, what you really have is a table saw, although maybe more correctly called a "saw table" than "table saw". The FS-PA (which I use when not using the table saw) will within a little more narrow size limit give you similar repetitive cross cuts. :)--- Mats ---
Yeah, I guess that that is one way to look at it! Another way: it's pretty close to being as safe as a SawStop, for 1/4 to 1/5th the cost (it's amazing what flipping two words can accomplish!) :D

[Neal Clayton]

as someone else mentioned, i would think that the guided skilsaw setups are a very good panel saw alternative. mobile, comparably as accurate, takes up less space, etc.

there also seem to be alot of people who switched after getting hurt on a table saw if they could manage with the guided skilsaws. that i can also understand.

personally i've been using old table saws with no safety devices since high school woodshop and have only ever cut myself on a bolt thread when the fence knob came off, and like many others despite having lots of tools and having bought and sold lots of alternatives to to those tools at various points in time, the old PM66 i have is the one tool that gets used in my shop every day, and therefore has no alternative.

[John Schreiber]

. . . But if you have that whole set up, what you really have is a table saw, although maybe more correctly called a "saw table" than "table saw". . . .
Good description. One of the advantages for me of the "saw table" is that the whole thing is easily transportable. A table saw on a mobile base works, but when I've got to get my wife's car in the gar. . . workshop, lighter and quicker is easier. If I've got to really save space and get both cars in, I can fold it up and lean it against a wall. Also less infeed/outfeed space is needed. The wood is stationary. I just need a foot or so on each side to feed the saw. Of course, I am limited to ripping by the length of my rails, but with some adaptation and a small loss of accuracy, (leapfrogging the rail) I could go on forever.

[Michael Parr]

So remember when you talk about putting a table saw down you need 2 times the board dimensions to deal with a board. To cut a full sheet of plywood you only need 4X8 + about a foot to get around it with a track system (EZ is my preference) and with a table saw you need 4 or 8 feet to the blade and then 4 or 8 feet on the other side to catch the outfeed. I chose the Eureka System over the Festool system cause of the deadwood concept. As I learn how to use the system I was cutting 1.5" strips of maple and cutting 24 of them was easy. Then I realized I had not squared my fence with the SRK (Smart Router Kit) base and had a 1/8" taper over the lenth. I then restraightened my fence and chose to just cut the taper off and the track system was soo easy. I could only imagine cutting that same cut on a table saw and the push sticks needed. With EZ the only thing i added was a piece of wood under the track to keep it against the fence.

My final 2 cents: If you are a weekend hobbiest and space is an issue but you want to make furnature style projects get a track system with a portable table. The scalability, size and safety cannot be matched. If you have no issue with space (IE Table plus outfeed table) the go for a table saw. I just prefer the track system with a good router and I have not seen a project I cant handle yet.