Drill blanks?

[Scott Conners]

I want to make a few tools out of round HSS drill blanks. Round skews, pyramid tools, and skewchigouge type tools. I'm looking for hardened drill rod I can just put a handle on and grind to the profile I want. The problme is, in the sizes I'm looking at (1/4", 5/16", 3/8"), the drill blanks are only about 5" long. I'm worried that after I mount them in a handle they'll be a bit too short. Does anyone know where to get slightly longer drill blanks? Or should I just use the lengths enco has? I'm looking for already hardened rod, not drill rod which has to be hardened.

[M Toupin]

Drill rod comes annealed (softened) so you can work it. If it was hardened then you couldn't cut it to length.

IMO O-1 is the easiest to work with. After you get your tool made, heat it to the point it looses magnetism, about 1450deg or so. Then quench it in oil, motor oil works fine. After you quench it you'll need to temper it to take some of the brittleness out. to do that you need to heat it to 325deg. A regular oven works fine for this, but you might want to wait until the wife is gone :D

Mike

[Scott Conners]

Mike, thanks for the suggestion, but the reason I want a hardened drill blank is to avoid the whole hardening and tempering process, which is hard to do precisely at home. I'm just looking for drill blanks longer than the standard size.

[M Toupin]

Aircraft drill bits are longer, about 12".

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=39&PMCTLG=00

What you may not be aware of is that drill bits are not homogeneous through the length. The tang/shaft end is softer than the point so they don't snap so easily. The tang/shaft end isn't going to make a very good tool without heat treating it.

Mike

[Don Carter]

Scott:
Have you considered some of the HSS round blanks from Enco and places like that?

All the best.

Don

[Mike Stephens]

Scott try this http://www.thompsonlathetools.com/tool.asp?ID=4413

Mike

[Allen Neighbors]

I don't remember where I saw them, but there is a place that sells pre-hardened drill rod in longer lengths. IIRC, the ones I saw were in 12 - 18" lengths or longer.
And you can cut them to the length you want with a dremel cutoff blade.

I did a search. Here's the link to an 18"x1/2"dia HSS rod: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INLMK32?PARTPG=INSRAR2

[Art Kelly]

This would be cool: http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=1727675&PMT4NO=59475193

You can cut hardened stock to length using cutoff wheels. For this size, I use a Dremel tool with this: http://www.dremel.com/en-us/AttachmentsAndAccessories/Pages/AttachmentsDetail.aspx?pid=426

O-1 seems pretty easy to heat treat to me. And it's much, much cheaper. See this: http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=1749012&PMT4NO=59475616

I only treat the cutting end--using a propane torch till a magnet doesn't stick, keep hot for five minutes for 1/4" stock, then swirl it around in some canola oil from Costco (we didn't like the taste/smell for cooking, but it quenches O-1 pretty good.) To temper it, sand it shiny and heat it with a paint stripper (or VERRRY carefully with a torch) until the shiny part just starts to turn yellow.)

Later, if I get it too hot on the grinder, I can quickly re-harden it. Sand it shiny after, and heat it with a paint stripper gun until it just starts to turn yellow. Too hard to file after this.

Art

P.S. Just to warn you, quenchants for oil-quenched steel is a lively topic because there is over 100 degrees Fahrenheit in the boiling temperature of the various oils. You can quickly get way more help than you bargain for if you get on the metallurgy forums.

[Curt Fuller]

What you're looking for are called 'tool bits' I think and the link to ENCO that some others posted is a good place to get them.
I've made several tools form the rod and I'll give you something to think about. I made a skew from a 1/4" x 8" rod, put about 2" of it into the handle. I like how it works with the exception of how long it is. I actually think after making several from 8" rods that the next ones I make will be from 6" pieces. The tools are usually for fine detail work with very little actual wood removal. A shorter tool would let you get more up close and personal to what you're working on and still have your hand on the handle. Just a thought.

Here's another source..
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=1656347&PMT4NO=0

[Thomas Canfield]

McMaster Carr is another good source for HSS in both round and square sizes and available in different lengths.

[Scott Conners]

Mike T - Thanks, but I'm looking for round rod, not actual drills.
Don - Yes, that's exactly what I'm looking for, just longer than 5"
Mike S- Thanks, I was hoping to find HSS blanks for cost and honing reasons, but if I can't find that I'll go with The Thompson blanks.
Alan - that link doesn't work, but if you can tell me the item number or what you searched for, I'd be really interested!
Art - Carbide sounds great, but the price is a bit prohibitive! Isn't carbide more brittle than HSS? Would a 1/2" or 3/8" carbide rod be strong enough for a lathe tool? It seems that hardening my own might be the way to go, it certainly is cheaper. Is air or water hardening steel as good as oil? I dno't have a source for oil to use in the shop.
Curt - Those are just about what I'm looking for, thanks! I may try the 5" lengths anyway, even if they are short they shoudl work for most of the things I wanted them for.
Thomas - I did look at M-C, I didn't find anything but the same 5" drill blanks I'd found so far.

I may just have to try the harden and tempering myself, the price is just too good to get around, but if anyone knows of some longer drill blanks I'd love to see it!

[Jeff Nicol]

Scott, I have worked on this problem in the past, what I have done is take the next larger piece mild steel and make a handle that is made to accept the tool steel like a Oland tool. This way you can make the handle a bit longer for your needs. I am not sure how long you want the shaft to be in total length, but most times with a smaller dia. gouge you don't want more than a couple of inches hanging over the rest. So you could take some 3/8" mild steel drill a hole in the end to accept the 1/4" HSS cutter. You can taper the larger steel to meet the smaller cutter so there won't be a large shoulder where the two meet. Most of the time the point where they meet will never reach the tool rest so not a problem. This lets you get the handle to the length you want. You can use a set screw to keep the cutter in place or use epoxy or CA to do it. The glue can be heated up later to put in a new cutter as it wears down.

There are industrial supply companies that will sell you longer HSS cutters but they like to sell in larger quantities most times as the are wholesalers and not retailers. Here is a link to an American co. that sells HSS in any length you might need. You have to contact them for a quote. http://www.griggssteel.com/highspeedsteel.php?ppp=aboutsteel&photobar=2



Good luck and have fun

Jeff

[Michael Mills]

Speedymetals.com carries a wide variety of tool steel in any length you would need for woodturning tools. Per they rep (online chat), the D2 steel will be the best for woodturning. I'm not sure how you know when you reach the temperature to which you heat it (1850) but with no tempering it yields a hardness of 62-64 (which I believe a Sorby tool is). Hardness is per their spec page.
I have not tried these.

WT Tools offers 'bits" in HSS (at least HSS is etched into them)
http://www.wttool.com/
Part# Type size
2218 Square 1/2x1/2x6 $7.50
2227 Round 1/2x8 $6.95
I'm sure they carry other sizes but I am not sure about longer lengths.
I purchased these a few weeks ago since my local woodturners club is having a "tool making" workshop this Saturday. (Southern Piedmont Woodturners...http://www.spwoodturners.org/)

Mike

[Thomas Canfield]

Scott,

Don't look for drill blanks at McMaster Carr but look for the HSS rods and bar shapes. I can't remember the size but some I bought was 12" long or better in the 1/4" size. They had a wide variety square and rectangle bars.

[robert hainstock]

HF has 24in drills with 3/8in HSS rod for 18in of thier length. Might they be useful? :)

Bob

[Allen Neighbors]

Part number 325-7004 $16.46
Part number 300-1426 $25.16
use-enco.com

Search CriteriaSize : .6250", 5/8Type : Drill Blank

[Art Kelly]

Mike T - Thanks, but I'm looking for round rod, not actual drills.
Don - Yes, that's exactly what I'm looking for, just longer than 5"
Mike S- Thanks, I was hoping to find HSS blanks for cost and honing reasons, but if I can't find that I'll go with The Thompson blanks.
Alan - that link doesn't work, but if you can tell me the item number or what you searched for, I'd be really interested!
Art - Carbide sounds great, but the price is a bit prohibitive! Isn't carbide more brittle than HSS? Would a 1/2" or 3/8" carbide rod be strong enough for a lathe tool? It seems that hardening my own might be the way to go, it certainly is cheaper. Is air or water hardening steel as good as oil? I dno't have a source for oil to use in the shop.
Curt - Those are just about what I'm looking for, thanks! I may try the 5" lengths anyway, even if they are short they shoudl work for most of the things I wanted them for.
Thomas - I did look at M-C, I didn't find anything but the same 5" drill blanks I'd found so far.

I may just have to try the harden and tempering myself, the price is just too good to get around, but if anyone knows of some longer drill blanks I'd love to see it!


I got started on oil-quenching steel after following the custom knife making crowd for a while. Water-quenched steel is good, too, and the boiling point of your water and my water and everyone else's water is the same at the same altitude, so it's a more consistent quenchant. Also, it doesn't catch fire.:eek: You should still have an A-B-C fire extinguisher at hand when you're blacksmithing. If you drop a red-hot bit into a bunch of shavings, you won't like it.

SAE 1095 is a good water-quenched steel--about the same ultimate hardness as O-1. I think it was used to make non-stainless razor blades. SAE 1045 is probably OK, too. Don't go any lower in carbon (the last two digits of the SAE Spec). I use 1018 to make replaceable tool-rest "shoes." It's harder than the cast iron tool rest material so it doesn't get dinged up as much, but softer than the tool, so it doesn't eat up the tool shaft.

I have also used cut nails from Ace Hardware to make small parting tools. I'm not sure how really hard it gets, but for a small tool to part off small items, it works great.

There's a good grass-roots level book, The Complete Modern Blacksmith, by Alexander Weygers. Not too expensive, and it's in print.

The carbide would be hard to sharpen. You need a diamond wheel. The brittleness isn't an issue I don't think. My Pro-Forme hollowing tool is solid carbide. PITA to sharpen, but cuts good once you get it sharp.

Tool making: The Vortex Within the Vortex. Quenchants: The Vortex within those, and so on. Ad Infinitum (or Ad Nauseum sometimes:rolleyes:).

Art