Looking for a headstock spindle

[Mark Norman]

I'm thinking of making my own bowl lathe. I have access to a good metal fabrication shop and fabricating the bed looks to be the easy part. For the headstock I plan on mounting a couple pillow block bearings on a piece of heavy wall 8" box steel welded to two 5" x 5' pieces of box steel to act as the bed.
http://www.grainger.com/images/products/enlarged/XL-3HX88.JPG

They have 1-1/4 through hole to hold the shaft. I could just make one with 1 1/4 x 8 tpi threads on both ends for inboard or outboard turning and have it hardened but I wouldnt have a MT or through hole.

Since it would be exclusive to turning large bowls would I miss the MT? I would just use a base plate and chuck for turning.

UNLESS...someone could show me where to get a shaft or even a whole headstock???

More details: I plan on a 2 hp VFD belt drive possibly using serpentine belt but will likely settle for a v-belt set up. Just in the planning stages now but I have my eye on some heavy iron layin around the shop. I have an old chunk of building foundation that consists of the two parallel 5" box steel I mention for the bed and its around 500+ lbs. If it all comes to fruition Ill post pics of the build.

Thanks for any input.
Mark

Edit:
I found a mandrell at grainger that would make a good start but its only 3/4" diameter. I think it would be too light duty?
Pic:
http://www.grainger.com/images/products/enlarged/XL-6L098.JPG

[Chris Padilla]

Mark, bumped you over to the "spinny thing" forum. I think you'll get more help there. :)

[Dave Ogren]

Mark,

The morse taper problem can be easily solved by a machine shop using a morse taper reamer. Have you thought about a tail stock ?? How would you solve that ?? or not use one ? You are right that WWGrainger has all of the electrics to do this job. Best of luck, I look forward to seeing your posts and pictures.

Dave

[Mark Norman]

I'll fabricate a tail stock from square steel...still pondering how to make the screw shaft for it...

I guess the question is; do I realy need the MT? I don't have much in the way of machine shops near where I live so it would take some looking into if I can find one nearby that could do it. I didnt want to spend the $ either if I dont have to. Just having the threads cut on a piece of 1-1/4 round stock and having it hardened might prove to be a challenge in these parts lol..

A banjo and tool rest would be rather easy. Just weld up some square stock to some round and drill a few holes to mount it to the bed.

Thanks for the input.

[Bob Haverstock]

Mark,

I'm not really familar with 1.25 spindle, but I would think that you will need a 2" shoulder to bump the chuck up against. On the outboard end of the spindle I would want some wrench flats to facilitate removing a tight chuck.

I use a spoon shaped tool with a raduis on the back to start the center of my bowls, almost never use the tail stock.

Please post photos as you build.

Bob,,, in central Illinois

[Mark Norman]

Thanks Bob....Good things to consider early in the build. I should weld a collar on the shaft for the chuck to butt up against. Grinding flats on the shaft is a real good idea. maybee weld a huge nut to the shaft where I can get to it easily.

I dont think I would miss the MT...I may even forgo the tailstock for now. Just to get up and running..

I love posting pics...My photobucket has over two thousand pics in it lol

[Jeff Nicol]

Thanks Bob....Good things to consider early in the build. I should weld a collar on the shaft for the chuck to butt up against. Grinding flats on the shaft is a real good idea. maybee weld a huge nut to the shaft where I can get to it easily.

I dont think I would miss the MT...I may even forgo the tailstock for now. Just to get up and running..

I love posting pics...My photobucket has over two thousand pics in it lol
You would need the tailstock for support when starting huge bowls. The weight of a large blank is never equal until it is turned some and most of the water has been moved around by centrifugal forces of the spinning blank. It would not take long to create a wobbling wandering monster without a tailstock when you start, after a lot of wood is removed then it could be taken away. I think you should do some more research on the web, there are others out there that have made big lathes for just turning bowls. I know there is a guy in Hawaii that made a big one for just bowls and big hollow forms, can't remember his name for sure. But I think you could find a machine shop or a guy that has a metal lathe at home who does custom one off machining to do it. It is not something to be taken lightly, having a 150-300lb chunk of wood spinning at 300-800RPM.

Stay safe and do it right the first time,

Jeff

[Bob Haverstock]

Mark,

I would not weld on the spindle. Just as sure as green apples will give you a tummy ache, the spindle will not be straight after you weld on it. ( yes preheat would help) I would have the spindle turned from 2" inch or so stock, it wil be straighter. The shoulder face needs to perpendicular to the spindle center line or the chuck will wobble.

Bob

[M Toupin]

I'd start with a existing headstock and tail stock if it was me. There's more to a headstock than just a couple of pillow blocks. How are you going to deal with the side load hollowing places on the bearings? Next comes the problem of accurate machining. Unless you've got a full machine shop, you're going to have a difficult time making your shaft and bearing seats, not to mention getting everything lined up and accurate, to eliminate vibration. Not to say it can't be done, but it takes some serious machining.

If your set on building from scratch, I'd start with tapered flanged bearings rather than pillow blocks. They will handle the side loads much better and allow you to build a solid headstock to run your shaft through rather than counting on a couple of bolts to hold the pillow blocks on.

If it was me, I'd probably start with a PM90 headstock. Old used PM090s show up all the time missing tail stocks and 3ph which means they go for next to nothing.

Here's an example of a shop built lathe, note he started with a existing headstock too.

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesArticle.aspx?id=26160

Mike

[Mark Norman]

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/uploadedImages/Fine_Woodworking_Network/Image_Resources/Web_Only/99926160-01_xl.jpg

I LIKE IT!!

Thanks for all the input!!

I'll look into other bearings and shafts and pulleys. Some parts I plan on salvaging so they will determine the course of the build.

It will be heavy duty like ^^

[Mark Norman]

If your set on building from scratch, I'd start with tapered flanged bearings rather than pillow blocks. They will handle the side loads much better and allow you to build a solid headstock to run your shaft through rather than counting on a couple of bolts to hold the pillow blocks on.


Mike

I guess the main headstock bearing is no place to compromise. I found this:

http://www.thebigbearingstore.com/servlet/the-1041/1-dsh-1-fdsh-4%22-Type-dsh-E-Four-Bolt/Detail

http://www.thebigbearingstore.com/catalog/typee4bolt.bmp

Might be just the ticket... I can make it work...

Thanks again Mike!!

[M Toupin]

I guess the main headstock bearing is no place to compromise. I found this:

http://www.thebigbearingstore.com/servlet/the-1041/1-dsh-1-fdsh-4%22-Type-dsh-E-Four-Bolt/Detail

http://www.thebigbearingstore.com/catalog/typee4bolt.bmp

Might be just the ticket... I can make it work...

Yes, that's what I had in mind, but they ain't cheap and you'll need 2.

A old PM90 or the like headstock will be cheaper AND quicker, not to mention someone has already done all the engineering and figured out what works (and what doesn't).

Mike

[Dennis Ford]

I have built a couple of lathes, for bowls you can do without the morse taper. I could not do without a tailstock.

You should plan to use larger bearings. If you plan on having 1-1/4 x 8 tpi threads, bearings with a bore of 1-3/4" are about right. Have the spindle turned from stock larger than the bearing bore, cut the bearing areas and the threads with a single set-up for best accuracy.

[Mark Norman]

Yes, that's what I had in mind, but they ain't cheap and you'll need 2.

A old PM90 or the like headstock will be cheaper AND quicker, not to mention someone has already done all the engineering and figured out what works (and what doesn't).

Mike


But finding one... Thats the hard part.. and I have looked.

Got any pics of what you have built Dennis? I would like to see em. Thanks for the advice:)

[Nathan Hawkes]

But finding one... Thats the hard part.. and I have looked.

Got any pics of what you have built Dennis? I would like to see em. Thanks for the advice:)


Mark, the old PM 90's are 1"x8tpi, IIRC. A friend has one that I saw and examined recently--the headstock, not the lathe. It wouldn't allow for very large bearings inserted. We were discussing the very same thing. I was thinking about doing this very thing with some heavy black locust lumber I milled, and a concrete headstock paired with an old metal lathe headstock.

Old atlas lathe headstocks are available on ebay for cheap. The one I got and decided not to use (I ordered a 3520B last week), was from a "heavy 12" I think. I honestly didn't look it up-I just wanted to get a heavy spindle. It has a 1.5x8tpi thread, and at the least a 1.5" thick spindle--its probably closer to 1.75" in diameter. It has "plane" bearings, with oil reservoirs just like the VB lathe. I thought at first this would be a weak point, but after looking at the VB36's specs, it seems perfectly alright. Just keep them full of oil, and keep a bottle next to the lathe.

FWIW, I think if you're serious about a dedicated bowl lathe, with no tailstock, then thicker is better. A friend of mine built his own lathe with a 1 11/16" shaft machined to 1.5x8tpi threads. It is very steady, and has no wobble or play in the shaft.

[alex carey]

here are a few homemade bowl lathes I have seen. Not in person jsut what people have posted over the years. Might help you quantify what you want.

I don't know how versed in lathes you are but there is a company that makes pretty much exactly what your looking for. Last picture is of the vega bowl lathe. Just a thought.

http://www.vegawoodworking.com/2400%20Bowl%20Lathe.html

Alex

[M Toupin]

the old PM 90's are 1"x8tpi, IIRC.

The PM90 is 1 1/2" dia X 8tpi spindle. You may be thinking of the PM45 which had a 1" X 8tpi spindle, the same as the Delta HD lathes.

Mike

[Mark Norman]

Some great ideas so far!!

It looks I'm not the only one who like the pillow block bearings idea. Looks like it works ok.

I like the vega bowl lathe. But for 3 grand I could build more machine.

My arbitrary budget for parts is a grand. Otherwise I will just get a Jet 1642.

[Ed Kilburn]

Try Surplus center .com for bearings motors and other stuff you will need.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2009030320490005&item=1-210-31-4&catname=powerTrans

[Mark Norman]

Try Surplus center .com for bearings motors and other stuff you will need.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2009030320490005&item=1-210-31-4&catname=powerTrans


Thanks Ed. i just had this open in another window:

http://www.thebigbearingstore.com/servlet/the-131/1-dsh-3-fdsh-4%22-Four-Bolt-Flange/Detail
http://www.thebigbearingstore.com/catalog/HCFS.bmp

Almost identical... lol

[Travis R. Nelson]

Have you given any thought to making the head stock from concrete?? You could embed some steel plate with a through hole and attach your tapered bearing to the embedded plates with four grade eight bolts and lock washers. The ways could be a couple of W6X25# I-beams, weld on some 1/2" plate for a flange and attached to the solid concrete head with heavy duty concrete anchors, I think at least eight points of attachment using 5/8" anchors. Then you would want to get the ways flat decked and the gap between them machined for accurate spacing. Concrete isn't going to be mobile, but it has excellent mass for dampening vibration and can be formed to any shape. with out a bunch of welding and grinding...That is what I have been planning on for the last three years anyway... Have fun and think this over carefully, as others have mentioned there are incredible forces at play...

[Mark Norman]

Have you given any thought to making the head stock from concrete?? You could embed some steel plate with a through hole and attach your tapered bearing to the embedded plates with four grade eight bolts and lock washers. The ways could be a couple of W6X25# I-beams, weld on some 1/2" plate for a flange and attached to the solid concrete head with heavy duty concrete anchors, I think at least eight points of attachment using 5/8" anchors. Then you would want to get the ways flat decked and the gap between them machined for accurate spacing. Concrete isn't going to be mobile, but it has excellent mass for dampening vibration and can be formed to any shape. with out a bunch of welding and grinding...That is what I have been planning on for the last three years anyway... Have fun and think this over carefully, as others have mentioned there are incredible forces at play...
Not till now...Hmmm a big concrete monolith with a rotating headstock...interesting...

[Dave Ogren]

Mark,

Here is an example of a home built lathe with a concrete headstock, just like you are planning and Fred is a professional bowl turner. Check it out at www.fredwilliamson.com (http://www.fredwilliamson.com) his web site shown the lathe and also gives his phone number and E-mail Good luck, I can't wait to see what you are going to do and please pictures.

Dave

[Paul Atkins]

Here is my Rube Goldberg setup for big stuff. I can turn 32" curved mouldings and bowls. No tailstock and a 12" x 1" steel faceplate.

[Paul Atkins]

Photo didn't load.

[Paul Atkins]

Can't get the picture - look on my 'members and their lathes' post.

[Mark Norman]

Mark,

Here is an example of a home built lathe with a concrete headstock, just like you are planning and Fred is a professional bowl turner. Check it out at www.fredwilliamson.com (http://www.fredwilliamson.com) his web site shown the lathe and also gives his phone number and E-mail Good luck, I can't wait to see what you are going to do and please pictures.

Dave

I just spent an hour checking out all Freds work and his lathe. I guess a bowl lathe can be made very simply. One thing I have learned is ballast is important!
I have experience with concrete....At first I was like 'yeah right' but apparently it makes for a good foundation...Now I am re-thinking my build.

I'll go look for yours Paul. Thanks for posting.

[Nathan Hawkes]

Fred is a friend of mine, and the one I was referring to in my post!! He is a really nice guy, and his lathe is pretty amazing. It is SOLID. I don't know the true max. swing of it, but I've seen bowls he's done that are about 24" in diameter.

[Mark Norman]

Fred is a friend of mine, and the one I was referring to in my post!! He is a really nice guy, and his lathe is pretty amazing. It is SOLID. I don't know the true max. swing of it, but I've seen bowls he's done that are about 24" in diameter.
Fred does some nice work Nathan!
I'm looking at the concrete option. It would certainly have the needed ballast. I'm eyeballing some 8" water main pipe that could work if filled with concrete...HHhmmmm

I'll stop by a local steel supplier and see what they have in the way of 2" solid round stock to start with. Have it turned to accept the pillow block bearings, a pulley and have threads cut on each end.

I'm excited now...It would be very rewarding turning big bowls on a machine I built myself rather than spending upwards of 3K for one that is not as beefy.

[Nathan Hawkes]

Heavy is better! The box underneath the headstock is filled with sand all the way to the floor, if I remember right--it has to weigh close to 1000lbs or more.

[Mark Norman]

Heavy is better! The box underneath the headstock is filled with sand all the way to the floor, if I remember right--it has to weigh close to 1000lbs or more.
Sand is a real good idea. It makes it a little more mobile if the need to move it came about. I have an overhead trolly hoist in the workshop I plan on placing the lathe direcly under to facilitate loading a big log on it, so no reason to limit myself when ballast is cheap.

<moving stuff around in the shop on my day off>

[Michael Mills]

I agree with others that a tailstock is important. Also someone else mentioned ebay. I looked and there are quite a few headstocks and tailstocks for sale.
The heaviest looking one to me was from a SENECA FALLS LATHE. It would have to be converted from gear to pulley but they state the headstock is about 100 pounds (currently $25 and no bids).
If you have the place to put it, I like the idea of concrete base also.
Look forward to seeing pics as it comes along.
Mike

[Mark Norman]

Thanks Michael but I think I am sold on the pillow block bearings and custom machined shaft.
All the big bowls I have seen turned on Youtube that impressed me were done with nothing more than a faceplate and chuck so thats what I'm looking at. Just a big motor to spin wood and a tool rest;)

I'll post pics for sure;):D

[Mark Norman]

Just ponderin the possibilities...

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t116/triangle5/wood/Top-43_edited-1.jpg

That was last night...

A more refined design tonight...

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t116/triangle5/wood/Top-44_edited-1.jpg

What do ya all think?

[Travis R. Nelson]

I am planning to use a solid 24" x 24" piece 42" tall and have the spindle set at about 36". I will set 4 #6 rebar verticals per side and set a mat of #6 rebar 6" O.C. above and below the spindel. I plan to use a 1 1/2" spindel and three bearing sets. I think a guy could just grease up a 2" diameter dowel to get your through hole and drive it out after the concrete sets. I think it is important to have plenty of mass above the spindle as below and between the bearing points to dampen an out of balance blank. Over-build it and it will not fail you. Under-build it and you might end up with a new "window" in your shop wall or worse...

[Mark Norman]

Travis, You do realise you are talking over 2,000# of concrete with the measurements you provide? And there is no need for mass above the center-line of the spindle, it would be counter-productive. But give it a shot and post pics.

[Brent English]

I have a brand new spindle with bearings that fits a Vicmarc VL300 if you want. Spindle nose is 1 1/4-8. Email me at brent@turnrobust.com if you are interested and we can discuss price and shipping. It will be reasonable. Thanks

[Mark Norman]

I have a brand new spindle with bearings that fits a Vicmarc VL300 if you want. Spindle nose is 1 1/4-8. Email me at brent@turnrobust.com if you are interested and we can discuss price and shipping. It will be reasonable. Thanks
E-mail sent!!!
Thanks Brent, I hope it works out well for both of us.
Mark