What do people use for furniture building?

[Rick Cicciarelli]

I am curious what most folks these days are actually using for larger pieces of casework..i.e. dressers, wardrobes, stands etc. Are folks using solid lumber, or, due to cost, have most folks gone the route of using 'furniture grade' plywood (for stuff like the sides and tops of pieces)? I know you can get plywood of all sorts (cherry, maple, whatever...), and it would certainly be cheaper making stuff this way, I am just curious what most folks do. I guess if I were going to be making heirloom pieces I'd want to try to make it all out of solid material.....but I haven't gotten to that point yet......

[Mike Gager]

i think generally for casework, plywood is the norm

[Rod Sheridan]

Typically the only plywood used in my work is for case backs and drawer bottoms.

I only use plywood backs where it won't be seen, such as on a dresser.

If it's the back of a china cabinet for example, I normally use a ship lap or tongue and groove back.

Of course for the workshop, it's the opposite, my cabinets are baltic birch with walnut edge banding.


Regards, Rod.

[Tony Bilello]

95% of the consumer market immediately backs off the solid wood idea when they hear the price difference. It's not just the cost of the wood, it's also much more labor intensive. Some people still do want solid wood but it's rare. Also, consider that I dont have the same customer base that I had when I had a large shop in a different area. Some shops still have a customer base that can afford solid wood furniture.
As far as a building medium, Plywood is much better because there is no expansion/contraction with humidity.
As far as 'Heirloom', that is a thing of the past. Americans are very mobile these days especially those with the higher incomes. When they move into a new home they usually change a lot of their furniture also to go along with the theme of the new home. This constant moving also contributes the the 'throwaway society' concept. It is neither good nor bad, it just 'is'.

[Peter Kuhlman]

Plywood - can you even find decent stuff any more? For my current project - a low entertainment center - I purchased "furniture grade" plywood from the local commercial shop supplier. After cutting the panels up, several delaminated while just laying on the work bench. Had to inject glue between the plys to be able to use it. Never had that happen before.
Pete

[David Keller NC]

"I know you can get plywood of all sorts (cherry, maple, whatever...), and it would certainly be cheaper making stuff this way, I am just curious what most folks do. I guess if I were going to be making heirloom pieces I'd want to try to make it all out of solid material.....but I haven't gotten to that point yet......"

Rick - The cost question sensitively depends on your work environment and the purpose for the piece. If you're a one-man show, plywood can actually be considerably more costly than solid-wood construction, depending on where it's used. A sheet of veneer-core 3/4" slip-matched walnut veneer plywood can run as much as $180 a sheet. When you factor in the waste for something like a round table top, it often makes more sense to use solid wood.

Obviously, interior-grade pine veneer plywood's likely to be considerably less expensive than solid wood for drawer bottoms and case backs, but that's the exception.

Of course, If I were building a bathroom vanity, it would be plywood regardless of the cost. The expansion/contraction issues with humidity changes make this necessary.

Finally, if they're going to be your own pieces of furniture, the costs of upkeep and the final fate of the furniture should be taken into consideration. A high-grade plywood veneer table top for a coffee table will look exceptionally good when it's first built, but it will be fairly easy to chip the veneer, sand through it if re-finishing is necessary, and dents can't be steamed out the way they can with solid wood. Factor in that engineered materials off-gas a fair amount of VOCs (Volatile Organic Compounds), and the choice of plywood versus solid construction becomes a lot less obvious than when figured on cost-of-materials alone.

[Chip Lindley]

What David Said!!

And, Peter! At least you got nice veneers to delaminate! The 3/4 red oak plywood at my local Lowe's is pure CRAP! I handled every sheet they had to find ONE with only TWO knots on one side for my son's HS shop project. With A-sides that would not even make decent B-sides, $57.xx a sheet is Ludicrous!

*Decent* plywood has its ligitimate uses. It is *light-years* ahead of PB or MDF! But solid wood is *galaxies* ahead of plywood! For ME, it is just as easy to add raised panel ends on my new cherry kitchen than to order cherry ply to match! (cheaper too!)

At todays prices, for other projects, a truckload of Ozark groundhog sawmill oak is much cheaper than even a couple of sheets of plyCRAP!

[Neal Clayton]

i agree with chip.

i'd rather use a lower end solid lumber than a higher grade of plywood for the same price. the less veneer the better.

and when you start looking at high grades of ply you'll see that the price isn't that much different.

i can understand why the high output cabinet operations need to use plywood to speed up the box making process, but if you're building it for yourself why not build the better mousetrap?

[glenn bradley]

Several opinions here. My main problem with the super thin veneers on today's ply is that getting a finish match is a struggle. The finish reacts differently on solid woods than it does when passing through the veneer and hitting the glue barrier. I have enough trouble finishing as it is, I don't need to ask for trouble.

[Russ Boyd]

It seems to make a difference where you live. Go figure. Ply here in the NW is MUCH less expensive than hardwood. I agree hardwood is better, but at what cost. I have to agree with Tony on what sells in your neck of the woods is what you need to use. I have not had the experience with delaminating ply like some have mentioned, but we all know stuff is getting worse all the time. It sucks to be us.....no, wait, we LIKE what we do!

[Jim Becker]

I only use plywood, generally speaking, for built-in casework. My preference is for solid stock for furniture. But that doesn't mean I will not use plywood if it's a means to an end or if I'm trying something new technique-wise. I actually am using some BB ply for the basic carcass components of a cherry buffet I'm building for expediency...and because I have a lot of it available. But my preference is...solid stock. Really nice solid stock, too.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Depends on the intended use and future expectations.

I've only built a couple of what an amateur like me would consider serious pieces of furniture.

In the shop...plywood.

Solid wood on the top, sides, face frames, drawer fronts, drawer sides and backs. Plywood bottoms on the drawers and veneer plywood on the backs.

The LOML is goading me into making several more pieces of furniture that the kids, grandkids and great-grandkids will fight over when we are gone. I'm using solid woods. I want them to appreciate what I made. Each piece has or will have an engraved brass tag on it....announcing that I made it for the LOML and what year I made it. If I'm lucky....years after I've left this earth, my great grandkids will say.....I didn't know Pa-Pa made furniture....

[Thomas S Stockton]

Depends on the piece. Most case work I do is high quality plywood and a lot of freestanding furniture pieces are custom veneered over various cores depending on the application. I also use a sawn veneers that are generally laid up on top of a good quality plywood core. To me what is important is how a piece looks and then I figure out what techniques and materials I need to achieve that goal.
Below is an entertainment center I did that combines A-1 grade commercial walnut ply, solid wood and veneer for the door and drawer fronts. A piece like this would be extremely expensive if you were to build it out of solid wood. Plus it is much easier and more consistent to do curved doors using bending ply and a vacuum press than coopering solid wood

Tom

[John Thompson]

I have always done solid wood using ply for chest backs and drawer bottoms. But.. I am beginning to re-think that with the economy and soaring prices, I am currently working on a computer desk-hutch where I re-sawed QSWO to 3/8" for outer side panels (frame and panel) glued on top of standard 1/4" white oak plyfor the substrate as it won't be seen except when the bottom cabinet doors are open.

So.. I am open to doing what I have to do but avoid ply if possible. As stated.. it is sometimes more expensive than solid.

Sarge..

[Todd Hoppe]

What David Said!!

At todays prices, for other projects, a truckload of Ozark groundhog sawmill oak is much cheaper than even a couple of sheets of plyCRAP!

What in the world is "Ozark groundhog sawmill oak"?!

[Mike Parzych]

Several opinions here. My main problem with the super thin veneers on today's ply is that getting a finish match is a struggle. The finish reacts differently on solid woods than it does when passing through the veneer and hitting the glue barrier. I have enough trouble finishing as it is, I don't need to ask for trouble.

That's the problem I find too. Stain matching plywood to solid wood just doesn't give a consistent color match, and the ply itself will often vary on one sheet from one section to the other. On a free standing bookshelf thing for instance, I'll use solid wood on the sides to match the face frames, etc.

[Jules Dominguez]

Rick, you've gotten good but varied responses from experienced and dedicated woodworkers who've made their own decisions and set their own standards. As some of them have explained very well, the bottom line on each project is what will you be personally satisfied with? So you only need to look within.

[Neal Clayton]

What in the world is "Ozark groundhog sawmill oak"?!

a guy cutting oak trees on the weekend for something to do and selling them for whatever he can get for them.

[Rick Fisher]

With Plywood, you get what you pay for.

I am in the business and we sell 3/4" Oak and Birch for $39.99 a sheet.

Its poop! But it sells fast and we make decent money on it.

I dont use it often. The veneer is so thin that it chips with a brand new freud or WWII blade. Shop cabinets.. its fine.. Thats about it.

Really good quality hardwood ply is readily available. The costs have actually come down in the past year but its still over $3.00 a square foot.

It wont sell retail. Lowes, Borg.... dont have it.

[Rob Price]

I'll throw in my $0.02.

I recently built a walnut computer desk/hutch for our keeping room (see attached). It's basically built like cabinets and we installed it like a built in desk. Mainly due to the size of the project, I went with sheet goods. There are several large panels that I didn't want moving around on me over time. Especially the top, you can see it's a very large single piece of plywood. 24" deep at the widest part and almost 7' long. I found a cabinet shop here in town that would sell me A1 walnut plywood at cost, ~$86 a sheet, which was a deal compared to solid stock. I used 5 sheets. I wouldn't call this an heirloom piece, I like it, but it's basically cabinets with some faceframes and trimwork. The downside to the ply- the wood looked totally different from the ply, so I had to glaze coat with a gel stain to even the look. I wanted a dark look anyways, but a natural finish was out of the question. The other downside is that I can't refinish it down the road, the veneer is paper thin. The plus side is I got to build the project at all, solid wood was cost prohibitive.

On the other hand, the Buffet I just built (also walnut) I wanted to be an heirloom piece of furniture. I wanted the ability for me or my 'heirs' to sand down and refinish the piece if nessesary if the finish ages down the road. I want this thing to last longer than me, so all the visible wood is solid, the guts are plywood. Also, at the time, I could afford the solid wood.

If you're wanting "heirloom" funiture that will last, take some wear and tear, and possibly need refinishing in 50 years, use solid wood.

[Frank Drew]

I don't think the market for "heirloom" quality furniture has disappeared, but it's definitely shrunk down to a niche market. I agree with Jim and others who'd use hardwood veneer ply for built-ins and the like (bookcases, wall units, etc.), and solid for free standing furniture.