Scary sharp help

[Richard Dooling]

I have had good results using the scary sharp system but have been frustrated with the rapid wear of finer grit papers. I am using Klingspor adhesive backed paper on plate glass. The 2000 grit paper especially seems to show significant wear almost immediately.
Any paper recommendations? Alternately I’m thinking of getting a Spyderco stone for final honing.
Thoughts - thanks.

[Craig Johnson]

I use WD-40 to aid in sharpening with all my sandpapers.
It seems to lessen the wear as opposed to water.
Just spray some on your sheet and go from there.
Respray as needed.
Works for me.

[Terry Brogan]

I stop at 1500 <g>. OTT, I spray 3m 77 adhesive and buy the plain paper--it's cheaper. Razor the paper and the adhesive off when it gets dull.

[Carl Maeda-San Diego]

I stop at 600 grit and it works for me. Maybe I'll try going farther but my sandpapers last a pretty long time.
I also have the Spyderco sharpening system. It is really good at sharpening my router bits and knives but I prefer scary sharp for my plane irons and chisels.

[Dominic Greco]

I stop at 600 grit and it works for me. Maybe I'll try going farther but my sandpapers last a pretty long time.
I also have the Spyderco sharpening system. It is really good at sharpening my router bits and knives but I prefer scary sharp for my plane irons and chisels.

I have my SS set up so that the last grit I use is 800. I tried going all the way up to 2000 but found it was a bit overkill. Especially if I followed with honing using LV's Veritas Green Honing Compound.

Case in point: My buddy came over this past weekend and we rehabbed a big old wooden jointer he got from his Dad. While he worked on that, I cleaned up a coffin smoother and an extra Buck Brothers Iron. After we sharpened with my SS system, we honed the irons and were able to shave end grain pine transluently thin.

[Rob Luter]

I use 3M abrasive films instead of sandpaper. They are available at TFWW. (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=ST-MAF.XX&Category_Code=THS) (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=ST-MAF.XX&Category_Code=THS)I) I buy the 5 sheet sample packs. I made 5 sharpening blocks by first gluing 1/4" x 2 3/4" x 11" float glass to 1" MDF. The abrasive film goes down on top of the glass after a light misting with rubbing alcohol. This makes it easy to get rid of air bubbles. I used the PSA variety of film to get uniform adhesive thickness but many apply their own. I find the film lasts a good long while. I usually wind up changing the most often used grits every few months. I get three uses from an 8 1/2" x 11" sheet of film and it's worked out to be very cost effective, about a buck a month.

When I sharpen I add a few drops of water to the surface and wipe everything off when done. A few strokes on each grit will bring an edge back in a real hurry.

[Brian Kent]

I use the same as Rob.

The only different is I use one 12 x 12 polished granite tile, with all 5 grits in strips on the same tile. I put 4 across and one the other direction at the top. I can use a little mineral oil that lifts the metal dust off the micro-abrasives.

[Ben Rafael]

I dont use paper beyond 600. After that I use stones, 1000 then 5000.

[Douglas Brummett]

I dabble in scary sharp from time to time. I actually was honing up a plane iron this weekend. For kicks I decided to play around newspaper as the strop. I had picked up some 2000g w/d recently to check out. Near as I can tell there is no real advantage of 2000g over 1000g w/d that they sell at the automotive stores (3M I believe). The 1000g cuts better and breaks down to about the same grit fairly quick. I noticed that the 2000g really only excelled in getting clogged fast. I think coming off 1000g and stropping works just as well.

Oh and green paste on news print works very well. Just be sure to only pull or you will rip/tear it.

[Richard Dooling]

I’m happy with scary sharp up to 800 grit and then 1200 is basically OK. At 2000 grit the flatness is a bit of an issue but the rapid wear is a deal killer. Rob I will give the 3M films a shot when I run out of my current stock.

As far as adhering sheets I have started using a J-roller like formica mechanics use. I barely apply a spot on the paper to hold it in place and then use the roller moving from the center out. This has virtually eliminated bubbles. I also picked up an inch and a half Stanley chisel from Blue Borg for $10.00 and this gives me much better leverage for removal. Then the razor just gets used for adhesive cleanup.

I just ordered the black Spyderco stone so I’ll see how I like that approach. I do like the idea of a final honing system that does not wear out quickly. If I like the dark Spyderco I’ll look at the fine stone. I'll use sandpaper for rough work and for basic sharpening and the ceramics for honimg.

Having said that, I am getting better at freehand working the edges but I’m still using guides to establish the primary bevel. I’ve run into some nice deals on some old planes recently and I’m trying to get the basic re-hab work done before it warms up enough to do what this is all really about – making shavings. Most of these blades have to go to the grinder first because the bevels are literally all over the place. I’m impressed with the thickness of some of these old blades, especially some Sargent steel that comes in at 3/32”. If only the backs were flat – cause that’s one big old PITA.

I’m also playing with the green honing compound but have not settled on a surface I care for – maybe an old belt. The leather I have now seems too soft. It might be OK for a knife but I don’t want to round the edge on a plane iron.

A couple of questions:
Is there a real world advantage to float glass vs plate glass?
Should I cut tails first or pins? Doh!
I’d like to weigh all the words written about dovetails and all the thoughts on sharpening just to see which gets discussed more!


Thanks for all the input guys!

[Rob Luter]

Rob I will give the 3M films a shot when I run out of my current stock.



You'll like them.




Is there a real world advantage to float glass vs plate glass?



It's the same thing. Plate glass is made with the Float process. I call it float glass because I'm in the window industry and that's just what we call it.


Should I cut tails first or pins?

Tails


I’d like to weigh all the words written about dovetails and all the thoughts on sharpening just to see which gets discussed more!



That would be like counting grains of sand on the beach.

[Jim Koepke]

Is there a real world advantage to float glass vs plate glass?





It's the same thing. Plate glass is made with the Float process. I call it float glass because I'm in the window industry and that's just what we call it.

That is what I thought also, until reading this:

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/463893/plate-glass

They could be in error. I use a granite slab so I do not have to worry as much about such things.


Should I cut tails first or pins? Doh!

What ever works best for your way of working. One is not more correct than the other.

jim

[Rob Luter]

That is what I thought also, until reading this:

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/463893/plate-glass

They could be in error. I use a granite slab so I do not have to worry as much about such things.



jim

Our company uses several million pounds of glass annually, all produced using the float process. I'm not aware of anyone using the old process, or anywhere (other than perhaps an "art glass" producer) where glass made with the old "plate" process is available.

[John Keeton]

I’m also playing with the green honing compound but have not settled on a surface I care for – maybe an old belt. The leather I have now seems too soft. It might be OK for a knife but I don’t want to round the edge on a plane iron.Someone posted here a few days ago that using the green compound on a block of mdf with a bit of mineral oil works great for final honing. I picked up some and am going to give it a try. Seems like an easy addition to my scary sharp board.

[Bruce Haugen]

John,
one advantage of using MDF or poplar or something like that as the surface for your honing compound is that you are able to cut a profile using a plane and then sharpen the same blade on it. This works really well for hollows and rounds or profile cutters.

Bruce

[Dominic Greco]

Someone posted here a few days ago that using the green compound on a block of mdf with a bit of mineral oil works great for final honing. I picked up some and am going to give it a try. Seems like an easy addition to my scary sharp board.

I think I was the one that mentioned that. And I have to tell you, it's EASY to make and worth every second of your time.

Just remember to go easy with the coompound and the min oil. Giving the mdf a light (couple of drops) coat of mineral oil and then drawing a couple scribbles with the green honing compound "crayon" works. If you get a slurry, you just move it around with the balde your sharpening. it'll eventually get absorbed in the MDF.

Case in point on how well it works:
Since I had off from work yesterday (actually, I went to work only to find that I was one of five people that made it in! Then we were all told to go home!) I was working on a couple of plane blades for some woodies.

I flattened the back and sharpened this plane iron until I could see myself. Then I touched it up on the mdf honing board. HOLY CRAP it was sharp. I took a nice chunk out of my thumb and I didn't even realize it until I noticed the blood on my hands!

[Richard Dooling]

Hey Dominic I recall your MDF suggestion – it was in a thread I started about stropping I think. I will definitely give it a try.

I think Bruce’s idea of using this idea to hone a profile is great and it reminds me of a similar idea The Schwartz had in an article about scrub planes. He mentions using sandpaper adhered to a contoured piece of wood to sharpen the extreme camber on a scrub plane.

If the moderators will allow, here is the link. (Page 3 of a 3 page article.)
http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/cSchwarz/z_art/scrubPlanes/scrubPlanes3.asp (http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/cSchwarz/z_art/scrubPlanes/scrubPlanes3.asp)

The “tails first or pins” comment was really me just poking a little fun at all the endless opinions and generally good natured opinions expressed about topics like sharpening and dovetails and the best way to approach the work. Personally I love it all and have been grateful to find a group that cares about it too. I have always been much more a power tool guy but I find hand tools are an incredibly satisfying way to approach the work.

The LOML kind of gets it. But when I come in from the shop and say, “Well I got that rusty old #6 tuned up so I can take anything from a transparent shaving to a big ol’ honkin’ slice of maple,” she just smiles and says “That’s nice honey.”

Are we having fun yet?

[John Keeton]

Richard, you will be able to appreciate the look I got from my wife when I brought a fistful of some .001 walnut shavings I was finally able to get from my LV BU Jack, plopped them down on her sewing table as she was working on a quilt, and said "Now there's what I'm talkin' about!" :cool:

My timing was a bit off, and the placement of the shavings was probably not the best:o

[Richard Dooling]

Ah . . . timing and placement, the key to so much of what’s good in life:rolleyes:

[Rob Luter]

The “tails first or pins” comment was really me just poking a little fun at all the endless opinions and generally good natured opinions expressed about topics like sharpening and dovetails and the best way to approach the work.

I agree Richard. On a related note, I participate in a couple other forums for different interests, primarily electric guitars and sport/touring motorcycles. You'd be entertained at the passionate debates over fingerboard material, fret size and shape, pickup type, and brand of strings for guitars; and oil, tires, seats, and windshields on the Bike forums. It often gets way "over the top". Even the most heated threads on the Creek make this crowd look like polite society by comparison. That speaks well for those who participate here.

[Quesne Ouaques]

I have 6 grits on my SS slab (starting with 220), and I actually do go up to 2000 grit. My water-resistant paper is semi-permanently mounted with spray craft adhesive to a 53" x 8" slab-o-glass (3/8" thick commercial shelving).

When I am sharpening, I keep a damp sponge handy. I wipe-down each piece of paper before sharpening -- and I pat it down a few times in between -- and then I wipe it down after I'm done.

Also, I do NOT put a huge amount of pressure on the edge being sharpened the way I sometimes might with my diamond pads. The first few times I did that it really killed the abrasive on the paper.

This works very well for me, and the frequent water baths seem to extend the life of the paper. At the end, the 2000 grit paper literally gives me a mirror finish.

[John Keeton]

I start on my scary sharp board with 150, and have 7 grits ending at 2000. However, I think starting at 220 is plenty sufficient. I have noticed that the 150 breaks down pretty quick anyway, and shortly cuts no better than the 220. I also get nearly a mirror finish at 2000.

In follow up to Dominic's idea on the mdf and honing compound - I tried it this morning, and it really is the finishing touch;) It takes the "nearly mirror" finish, and really puts a very nice polish on the blade. I can usually get a pretty easy "hair raising" experience after the 2000 grit, but after using my new "honing board", the difference is noticeable! However, having been duly warned - there was no blood loss:D

Thanks Dominic!

[Gary Herrmann]

I still go the scary sharp route at times. I have some 2000 grit paper left, and still use it occasionally. I haven't noticed a difference at stopping at 800 tho - other than the shine on the metal. I've always found that the paper sticks to the glass just fine using just the tension generated by spraying water on the glass.

For awhile now, I've been using diamond stones. It goes faster because they don't get loaded up like the paper does. Not quite as shiny, but I can't tell a difference in sharpness or edge retention.

[Dominic Greco]

John Keeton wrote:
"In follow up to Dominic's idea on the mdf and honing compound - I tried it this morning, and it really is the finishing touch It takes the "nearly mirror" finish, and really puts a very nice polish on the blade. I can usually get a pretty easy "hair raising" experience after the 2000 grit, but after using my new "honing board", the difference is noticeable! However, having been duly warned - there was no blood loss"

Glad to be of service!!:D I'm happy to hear that you're satisfied with the performance.

I was just working out in the shop, sharpening a plane iron or two, and have the bald spots on my arm to prove it!:)

Scary Sharp by itself is pretty awesome. But I just love how much sharper I can get a blade by using that "honing" board

[Tom Adger]

I use the sandpaper on glass up to about 400 grit. Then I go to a combination waterstone, 1000/6000. I use a Veritas Mk II jig for the bevel. I always flatten the back, then the same with the bevel using the above, the first time. For resharpening on back and bevel, I just use the waterstone. The time consuming work is only on the first time. This is for chisels and plane blades. Just for info, I also do this for my jointer knives. (6") I flattened the backs of them with a piece of flat wood, and using double sided tape, flattened the backs. Then I made a jig for the bevel, and used the exact same procedure as above. The planer blades are just too long to try.