Padilla's Garage Gut/Remodel

[Chris Padilla]

As some of you may or may not know, I am on an "at home working" vacation right now and my main goal is to get my garage in shape for a real wood/work shop. I'm Home Alone until July 22 when my wife and kid arrive back from Europe. Whew!

So, first order are the before shots. You've seen these off and on plenty of times on here but here we go! :)

I'm going for a full gut...nearly all the drywall will be removed. Only around the HVAC stuff will I leave the drywall since I don't want to remove all that crap.

The whole garage will receive new electrical. 2 120 V/20 A circuits, light circuits, the DC will have its own 240 V/30 A, plus I'll have 1 or perhaps 2 240 V/30 A circuits.

I'm going to adjust some plumbing here and there and anticipate moving the water softener as well.

I'll try to post daily photos.... :D

[Chris Padilla]

All the cabinets have been emptied and I've got the one near the door completely dismantled.

It'll just be demo for the next day or two...nothing terribly exciting....

[Frank Pellow]

Chris, I see that you have a washer and drier right in your workshop. Are you going to partition them off somehow as part of your renovation?

[Jim Becker]

Nice start, Chris...I'd offer to help, but it's a long commute! :D 'Looking forward to more of your pictorial!

[Donnie Raines]

I think the washer is for cleaning off the lumber prior to running it through the jointer/planer. The dryer is a multi-purpose tool in Chris's shop: Task one is to dry the lumber right after running them through the washer. Task number two is to act a "semi-kiln"....for small stuff.

Two tools that every workshop requires....... :rolleyes:

[Mark Singer]

Chris,
Where do you keep your hot dogs before you run them through the saw? I am looking for ideas for my own shop. And the Bimmer.....is he sleeping out?

[Gary Whitt]

Chris....
Please tell us the fabric on the door window is staying!!!! :eek:
It's killer!

[Cecil Arnold]

I think the curtins should set the entire tone of the new shop, but you need to work faster, you only have 8 more days before the boss comes home with her honey-dos and everything takes longer than it should. Nice start, I know you will appreicate the space, until you start to run out of it.

[Donnie Raines]

Thats funny! I did not even see the window fixture until they mentioned it. The house we just bought has the fancy(and really lacy) curtains on the front of the house..including the garage(so that it all matches from the front). I wanted to take them out and the wife would not let me.

So I to have some really pretty fabric in my shop to...... :D

[Rob Littleton]

We get that pattern on our TV when the dish dies............

It's called INTERFERENCE :-)

The cloth has to stay Chris...

[Chris Padilla]

Boy, I have *GOT* to edit my pictures in the future!! :rolleyes: That curtain on the door has been there since we moved in to the house 5 years ago! :eek:

Frank, I've waxed and waned about making a partition for the washer and dryer. They get so dusty and dirty from all the sawdust BUT, with my new DC going in, I'm really hoping that dust problems will be a thing of the past. Still, it is something to ponder.

[Alan Turner]

Chris,
Your first pix shows totally empty joist bays. This may be a waste of sapce. I can't tell you how many things I have stored there. From my little used 8 ft. pipe clams, to jigs for tapers and bandsaw dovetails, etc. You may be missing the boat. Course, I am a bit space challenged.
Alan

[Bart Leetch]

Could you maybe make a cover that would hinge open on the top & front of the washer & dryer that would be closed & keep dust out & even give you more space to set something on if needed?

Take every advantage. :D :D :D

[JayStPeter]

Chris,

Don't listen to these guys. I think the curtain is a good starting point for nice colorful decor. Looks like you've got powermatic yellow and grizzly/wilke green in there. Plus you can accent in red.
But, it doesn't look like the MM stuff will match. That's OK, just send it to me and I'll send you some Grizzly replacements that will.

Jay

[Bruce Page]

All the cabinets have been emptied and I've got the one near the door completely dismantled.

It'll just be demo for the next day or two...nothing terribly exciting....Chris, it's looking better already! My old house had the W&D in the shop..er garage. I was diligent about keeping them covered with a furniture pad, it seemed to keep the peace.

So...what the h*** is that leaning up against your new MM20? Shame on you!

[Frank Pellow]

Frank, I've waxed and waned about making a partition for the washer and dryer. They get so dusty and dirty from all the sawdust BUT, with my new DC going in, I'm really hoping that dust problems will be a thing of the past. Still, it is something to ponder.

I know that my wife would insist upon it (no matter now good the dust collector is).

[Tim Sproul]

Chris,

Give me a holler if you need a hand over a Sat. or Sun.

[Jamie Buxton]

The easy way to keep sawdust off the washer and dryer is to drape a drop-cloth over them -- cheap and fast. If you can find some more of that wonderful material from the curtain....

[Jim Ketron]

Looks like you have a great start Chris
Got your PM I think I got it fixed
What did you have for dinner tonight at the bachelor pad "Pizza" :D
I bet you can't wait for the little lady and the littler lady to get home!
Jim

[Jerry Olexa]

Good idea putting the washer/ dryer there handy so you can clean and dry your finishing rags and WW clothes! Seriously, you have a BIG project in front of you but w your expertise, you'll prevail!! I also like that curtain!! Jerry PS Hurry before the Boss gets home!!:)

[Dale Thompson]

Hi San Josey,

I know tht you CA folks are into aesthetics and stuff. However, after you get done with that, I would suggest that you consider the electrical requirements in your new shop. Have you considered hiring someone with an EE degree to give you a hand? ;) :) Just a thought from a CHEESEHEAD! :p Whatever, bud, good luck with your project. :) :)

Dale T.

[Chris Padilla]

More progress.

The first pic shows the washer and dryer moved out of the way so I can tear off the drywall over there. I also pulled off some conduit off the wall (feeds the pool equipment). I've got two gas lines running across that I can't do much with without spending an ungodly amount of money and time. I've thought to add furring strips to the whole wall but that seems like such a waste and a lot of work. I think I'll just box them in nice and neat and drywall over that.

I've got a guy coming in next week to asses my HVAC situation. What I have is pretty old. The water heater is new. I may just rip out all the old crap and then remove the drywall there, too. We'll see.

The second/third pic has all the drywall removed. The small opening to the right of the door is under-the-stair space. Still need to figure out how I might use the space...the water softener might just fit in there but the height is a bit tight.

The final pic shows the ceiling...two bedrooms are above this section of the garage. This is the space I'd like try out some sound travel control on like Jay did in his basement.

[Don Selke]

The curtains kinda remind me of a "Greatful Dead Concert" Boy! showing my age now!

Good Luck:

Don S.

[Chris Padilla]

A couple of "par-for-the-course" shots of the garage, the trailer for the trash (ha, trailer trash!).... :D

[Frank Pellow]

Seeing the outside shot of your garage roof, reminds me of the roof on my shop. (Hey, this week, everything reminds me of the roof on my shop :D ) My roof now has 3 skylights. Yours could stand to have at least 2. Have you considered installing skylights?

[Jim Becker]

My roof now has 3 skylights. Yours could stand to have at least 2. Have you considered installing skylights?
Solar Tubes would work really well here and be easy to install as a retrofit! They are amazing for their size...

[Gary Whitt]

"the trailer for the trash (ha, trailer trash!).... "

:eek: :D :rolleyes: ;) :cool: :)

Goes with the window covering!!! :D

I'm glad to see the window covering is still up! :rolleyes:

May we suggest a velvet Elvis? It could be used to cover the W&D. :rolleyes:

Keep up the good work, it's coming right along.

[Terry Hatfield]

Chris,

Nice progress!!! I bet your glad the family is not there for this one!!

t

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Go, Chris, Go! Looks good and you are making considerable progress!

[Byron Trantham]

Oh if SWMBO could see you now! ;)

As for dust collection, I would partition off the washer/dryer. I don't care how efficient the DC is you will get dust - everywhere! :mad: Almost everything I have is connected to dust collection but I still get enough to require an occasional "blow down and sweep."

Nice start on the project. :D

[nic obie]

Chris,

If you don't mind junking a new water heater you might consider one of the new instant on tank-less ones. They are supposed to be much more efficient and are only about the size of a milk case and I'm sure would fit into that wasted space under the stairs.

Would your compressor fit too? That would help quiet things down.

You would need to run a 4 or 5" vent for the water heater but I think venting the door would suffice for a compressor.

[Michael Ballent]

From the pic I saw, they look like the washer and dryer are the same height as your chop saw... why not use them for supports ;) it is your garage right :D

[Bob_Hammond]

It would free up a lot of space if you put the washer and dryer in the living room. :)


Bob

[Chris Padilla]

Fantastic ideas coming along, Folks! Please keep them coming. For the record, I've already decided to hire out the drywall job whenever it comes time for that. Jay had the right idea there. I don't mind tearing it down (well, I *do* but it is just sweat equity) but putting it up will take me forever and a day or two.

I've also come to realize that I have a WHOLE LOTTA (LOVE) work to do rerunning/routing various electrical and plumbing (water/gas) lines to make things much nicer and neater in the garage. The dreaded "while yer at its" are popping up everywhere and so it will be a while before the drywall is back up.

Pic 1 is a shot of the massive tree spanning the garage and holding up one side of the second floor. It measures 14 5/8" wide, by 5 1/4" thick, by about 19 feet long! It literally is a chunk of a tree...no glue, no laminates.

Pic 2 is a nice up-close shot for you picking on my curtain. You can see it isn't too exciting. It has a bunch of past presidents on it with patches of caligraphy writing on parchment, etc. :rolleyes:

Pic 3 is the "HVAC" niche. Pic 4 is a shot of the under-the-stairs space that I'd like to take advantage of somehow.

Now to address some of the posts here:

I chatted with my wife and think I will explore partitioning off the washer/dryer/HVAC section from the rest of the garage. I need some ideas for a decently sealing door that can open nice and wide. Perhaps an accordian door of some kind? Any thoughts here? You started this, Frank/Byron...now keep going! ;)

Bruce, that is a bag of fertilizer I need to put on the yard that is leaning against the MM20! I left it there to remind me to do this.

Jay, thanks for the offer but I'll pass and only take you up on soundproofing ideas! :D

Tim, many thanks for the offer of help! Would you be interested in getting together in Milpitas for a DC put-together on Sat? I'll be helping Ed M. put his kit together. It'll be a nice break from the house!

Jamie, I think the material for the curtain is all that is left. I think they burned the rest! :p

Dale, uh, :confused:

Frank/Jim, I'm not sure about the skylights but I might take a look at the solar tubes. I have a cedar shake roof and it can be a PITA putting stuff like that on it but I'll take a look. That is something I can put in later, too. My garage faces West.

Nic, I will chat with my HVAC guy (maybe he'll know something?) but you bring up an interesting idea. That would make a bit more space in the laundry area...I may even be able to move the washer or dryer over and make the potential partition even smaller! :D

Michael, I think the wifey wouldn't like me using her 'spensive Maytag "toys" for support! :eek:

Should have some more pics tonight!!

[Scott Coffelt]

Is the space under the steps very long? What about building a nice lumber rack where you slide in your boards of somthing of that nature.

[Bruce Page]

Now I'm sure of it!

That curtin is a keeper!!

[Dan Mages]

Chris. How wide is the HVAC area? You might want to consider a basic 36" exterior door for access. I you need a really large opening, what about a french door? I was at the Orange Borg the other day and they had a 6ft wide steel french door for $300.

Don't you just love thise while your at its?

Dan

[Bruce Page]

Hey Chris, I just noticed that the push broom hasn't mover since yesterday! If you turn it around and use the end with the little bristle thingy’s, it will work a lot better. :cool: :p :rolleyes:

[Chris Padilla]

Scott, it is about 6.5 feet deep. That is an interesting idea, however--Thanks!

Dan, the width is about 8' 4". I am hoping to avoid the extra space required by a swinging door.

Thanks for the idea, Guys...keep 'em coming! :)

[Chris Padilla]

Bruce, I'm going to have Ken lock you out of participation in this thread...you better come up with an idea or something positive FAST, Fella! ;)

[Dan Stuewe]

Nic, I will chat with my HVAC guy (maybe he'll know something?) but you bring up an interesting idea. That would make a bit more space in the laundry area...I may even be able to move the washer or dryer over and make the potential partition even smaller! :D



Just to pass on what little I know...The water heater for my house is on "my" side of the garage too and it would be great to get that floorspace (actually it is raised, but it would be great for an air compressor). Anyway, for what I've looked into tankless water heaters are the cat's meow except for a couple things...

If you're using natural gas they get pretty expensive if you want the automatic pilot. Going with the 'always on' model is cheaper, but costs a bit more utility bill-wise.

It also seems that you have to go pretty much top-of-the line to be able to handle two major hot water tasks at the same time. It has been awhile, but I seem to recall that only the top model sold at Home Depot (a Bosch) could handle a shower and anything else.

Finally, when a friend looked into installing one he found that to validate the warranty it needed to be installed by a professional and that was going to practically double the cost of getting the unit (this is in Southern California).

Anyway, I'm sure your HVAC guy will give you good info to make your decision.

[JayStPeter]

Second had knowledge alert ... I've heard that the tankless water heaters will not remain the same temperature while you're showering as well as ones with a tank. I've heard of a variance over time. They also vary when someone else hits a faucet to do something. Apparently, the electronics eventually catch up to the new load, but there are more serious fluxuations when flow rate changes. The person who told me this said it wasn't that bad, but it really bothered his wife.

Jay

[Bruce Page]

Sorry! :D

I would use the niche for general shop storage. Is there enough height in the doorway to store sheet stock on edge? You could install a pocket door for easy access, it would be relatively easy to do right now.

[Cecil Arnold]

If you are going to isolate the W/D with a soft door, you might consider a fan in the outside wall. This would enable you to put positive pressure in the W/D area without having to seal it up. In my experience getting an adiquit seal with interior doors is almost impossible. It really doesn't take much pressure to keep dust out, something on the order of .25" water column pressure is used in pressurized starwells.

[Jerry Olexa]

Martha Stewart's agent just called and expressed interest in your curtain. With your permission, she'd like to include in her new line for this fall for both Big Lots and KMart!! Excuse the humor, You truly are an excellent woodworker and its not too often we have an opportunity to chide you. G Luck w your project!! Jerry:)

[Tom LaRussa]

Just a few ideas, (some goofier than others):

[1] There is no such thing as enough storage space, so be sure not to neglect that space above the roll-up garage door. Great place to stored wood etc.

[2] How long has it been since wifey had new Maytags to play with? I ask because those stacking units take up only half as much floor space, which would further reduce the space needed for the partitioned area.

[3] Speaking of the partitioned area, how about some kind of roll-up door?

[Rob Littleton]

Martha Stewart's agent just called and expressed interest in your curtain. With your permission, she'd like to include in her new line for this fall for both Big Lots and KMart!! Excuse the humor, You truly are an excellent woodworker and its not too often we have an opportunity to chide you. G Luck w your project!! Jerry:)

Jerry, apparently it aint gonna look too good in cell block H........the walls are yellow and padded :-)

[Chris Padilla]

Well, I have one more section of the garage to get the drwall off of and that is the vaulted ceiling portion. It will also be the most hellish as each stud bay or cavity is filled with blown-in insulation. For the life of me I cannot figure out why insulation was put in here...no where else in this garage was insulated. It won't be fun and it'll be a big mess--I'll push everything I can out of the garage and I'll need to do most of the work with the garage door shut. Sigh....

Well I got a nasty shock today in the first pic! A woodworker's (and home-owners) worst nightmare: Termites!!! The location is very surprising as you can tell from the other two pics.

I'm going to call in an exterminator and have them take a look. It could have been done and finished years ago or they could still be digging in. Sigh....

[Dan Mages]

[QUOTE=Dan Stuewe]

It also seems that you have to go pretty much top-of-the line to be able to handle two major hot water tasks at the same time. It has been awhile, but I seem to recall that only the top model sold at Home Depot (a Bosch) could handle a shower and anything else.

QUOTE]

Just a quick warning about that $950 water heater. It is NOT made by Bosch. It is made by a Japanese company that licenses the Aquastar name from Bosch. This unit has a three year warranty, not the 15 year warranty offered by Bosch.

Dan

[Gary Whitt]

Keep those curtain pictures coming!!!! :rolleyes:

Chris, how about a disappearing, sliding door for the laundry area?
My parent's interior kitchen doors slide back into the walls and out of the way.
That would be killer for a laundry area!!!
And....
There won't be a door to get in the way or to keep a path clear for it to swing open... :p
For kickers....
Put a small window in the door and a matching curtain!!! :D :cool: :)

[Tyler Howell]

Well, I have one more section of the garage to get the drwall off of and that is the vaulted ceiling portion. It will also be the most hellish as each stud bay or cavity is filled with blown-in insulation. For the life of me I cannot figure out why insulation was put in here...no where else in this garage was insulated. It won't be fun and it'll be a big mess--I'll push everything I can out of the garage and I'll need to do most of the work with the garage door shut. Sigh....

Well I got a nasty shock today in the first pic! A woodworker's (and home-owners) worst nightmare: Termites!!! The location is very surprising as you can tell from the other two pics.

I'm going to call in an exterminator and have them take a look. It could have been done and finished years ago or they could still be digging in. Sigh....Chris, A leaf blower or furnace cleaning company can make short order of blown in insulation. If you use the VAC part of a leaf blower you will need a ground discharge, especially with the old blowing wool and fiber glass. Celulose(sp) wasn't so bad. Have fun and protect your lungs.

[Jim Becker]

Chris, give some thought to "not" pulling down the ceiling drywall where you have blown-in insulation. Not only will it create a mess, but it's a pretty efficient insulation method and there is little point to replacing it unless you absolutely have to have access to that area for some reason.

Hiring out your drywall is a great idea, but be sure to "book" a contractor soon...they often have schedules many weeks in advance if you want a real drywall crew as opposed to a handyman. I had to book a month in advance for our kitchen job...the only major thing I sub-ed out.

Bummer on the bugs...but finding them "now" is much better than finding them "later"!

[John Weber]

Chris,

WOW! Keep going buddy! I've skimmed most of the thread. A couple points that came to mind. First becareful enclosing the washer dryer. To make enough room for folding, etc... the enclosure will really grow and take a chunk out of the shop. You might really impress the SWMBO by moving them upstairs. We retrofited our 104 year old house from the basement to the upstairs and there is nothing happier then a wife (or husband) that doesn't have to go in the basement (or garage) to do the wash. Plus you gain back some shop space.

I also like the skylight idea. With the shed type roof, installation would be fairly easy (and it looks like you still have enough slope). Since your a bit close to you neighbor, the natural light would be awesome. I have windows on all four sides of my shop (although one looks into the garage). I would have to lose them even to pick up some wall space in my very small one car garage.

Lastly, don't count out knotty pine t&g carsiding for your walls. It goes up very fast, looks great, and only will add a little more cost. I did my shop a few years back and love the look, plus I'm able to hang medium weight items anywhere (heavy stuff still goes into the studs)

This is an older pic:

http://www.weberwoodworking.com/pond/Shop%20-%20Storm%20Doors.jpg

Good Luck, looks like your making a dent.

John

[Frank Pellow]

Chris, I agree with John that you should make every effort to relocate the washer and drier into the house itself. If it were me, I would even relocate an interior wall to acomplish this. While you are at it, you can make a proper laundry room with a sink and storage.

John, the pine really does look good and having wood walls firm enough to hang light things upon is a real advantage. It looks so good that I reconsidered my choice of thin plywood painter white for the walls of my shop. But, the thin white walls won (partly becuase I already have the plywood and the paint).

[Dan Mages]

Chris. Is your dryer, furnace, or water heater gas powered? You might not want to make the laundry area too tight. The equipment needs good air flow to function properly. You can always add a louvered vent for the laundry room to increase airflow.

[Jerry Olexa]

Chris Sorry to hear about the termites! (they like WOOd too), I'd reco getting a professional to address. Pretty hard to DIY. Your projects is taking several turns but it'll work out!

[Jamie Buxton]

Chris, when I've tried to sub out a small drywall job like that, it has been a little difficult. Drywall companies you find in the yellow pages want to tackle big jobs. They mostly won't even come to quote the small job. If you force them to do a small job, their overhead eats them and you alive, and the job get very expensive for you. What you really want to is find some guy who does drywall for one of those companies, and wants a little extra cash. He can do it on a Saturday for lots less than the drywall company can. My best approach has been keeping an eye out for construction jobs in the neighborhood, and asking the guys working on the site.

One more thought. You're not needing a beautiful job; this is a garage. Many garages are just "firetaped". That is, there's only one pass done with the drywall tape and mud. It is enough to hold the drywall together, but it isn't what you'd do inside the house.
And one more thought. Most building codes require a fire-resistant wall between the garage and the rest of the house. It is usually done with 5/8" fire-resistant (Type-X) sheetrock on the garage side of the wall, or two layers of 1/2" rock. If you have habitable space above the garage, the garage ceiling may require something more, like two layers of type-x, but I'm not sure about that.

[Jerry Olexa]

Martha Stewart just called again!! She still wants your curtains to brighten up her new cell!!:)

[Chris Padilla]

Hi Guys,

Thanks very much for all the notes. You sure have given me lots of food for thought here...more than I ever dreamed or perhaps wanted to hear! :rolleyes:

I kind took today off and went to see the premiere of I, Robot (excellent if you're into sci-fi) and then snuck into Harry Potter 3, POA (my second time seeing it) and pretty much killed the whole afternoon! It was fun as I reminded myself that I am on vacation! :D

Tonight I hope to clear the remaining ceiling drywall. It has to come out as I will need it for wiring.

There is no other place in the house for the washer and dryer so they are stuck pretty much where they were. I'll just neaten up the plubming a bit over there.

Orkin is coming on Monday to check out the bug damage. This is not an expense I foresaw but I am finding I am quite shortsighted on a lot of things! Oh well...it is only time and money in the end....

John, the pine is a very nice touch and highly apporpriate here. Since one of the walls was done in plywood (presumably for fire retardation?), I was thinking to do some sort of nice wall there. I think I want to put a nice workbench there (right next to the entry door into the house).

Dan, the water heater, furnace, and dryer are all gas-powered.

Jamie, thanks for the information...not something I wanted to hear but important nonetheless. I am getting the sinking feeling that I am biting off more than I can chew...we'll see. All the drywall I am ripping out of the garage is 5/8" but I've no clue if it is any special sort of drywall meant for fire-proofing/retardation.

:o :o :o :o :o

[Jim Becker]

Chris, the walls/ceilings that are common with your house (or any other house) will have to have fire-rated drywall put on before you do anything else. You can't use typical 1/2" stuff there! Another reason to sub it since the fire rated stuff is HEAVY.

[John Weber]

Chris,

Good move taking a day to rest. You might want to consider leaving the ceiling as is and simply running the lights and new circuits in conduit. Or if you can get in the attic above, you can still run wires that way. It may save you some nasty drywall/insulation removal work, and since your wall are open you can still run wires that way. However that said, my ceiling is like a cobweb, my sub panel goes up and feeds a junction box in the attic that all the circuits connect through. Add ceiling outlets, lights, smoke detector, etc... and I've got a ton fo cable up there.

On the washer/dryer, are you for sure, sure. If there was any way, any how, I think it would be worth it. Our 4th bedroom has it's own shower/sink/toilet, as well as the washer and dryer. Because the house is so old, closet space stinks. So one of our next projects is to convert it into a formal closet/bath/laundry. A small folding area, hanging area, toilet/sink/shower, and hopefully the closet of my wife's dreams. If you happen to have an extra bedroom, or other unused space, a second floor laundry is the best thing since sliced cheese.

Keep your chin up.

John

[Chris Padilla]

I just chatted with the old man...I don't feel so sunk now. He confirmed the 5/8 fire-rated drywall in the garage but I'll still find someone to do it....

John, I will chat with the LOML about laundry moving elsewhere but I just can't see it to be honest. I would be happy to do it to gain the space and I have access to the walls to do it now that I've opened up everything. Darn you, John, you've greased the gears in my brain!! LOL! What special sort of things does one need to look out for in putting laundry on a second floor? I'm thinking of water issues, of course. If I were to do this, the w/d would literally just move right above where they were. Hmmm, would need to run gas line up there for the dryer...provide a vent. Hmmm.....

[John Weber]

Ours was done by a previous homeowner, thus nothing special was done. The only thing I've done since is change the rubber hoses to stainless hoses. We also have a shut off switch/lever, but I plan to add an electrical shutoff that senses the washer call for water and turns the valve on and off accordingly. When we remodeled the kitchen about 5 years ago, the pipes feeding the laundry started freezing, so I hope to rerun them in an interior wall soon (this year), just one of those freak things I guess, although the guy that install the water lines was stupid for running them in an outside wall. I have a interior chimey chase about 6' away, so I'll move them there. The dryer was electric, so no problems there, it simply vents straight out the wall. I've all seen pans for under the washer, but my guess is it would need to have a drain do be effective, and that is a big job (for my situation). I think with the electrical shutoff and stainless lines I should be ok. The old w/d was in the basement, moving upstairs is something we will look for in any house we ever buy (although we may never move again). The best parts are dirty laundry says close to the w/d, beding, towels, everything you use is close at hand. Plus it's simple to run a load when getting ready in the morning. Kim usually runs a load before I even get up, she never has to go to the garage/basement/1st floor, a big plus.

Go for it - John

[Chris Padilla]

No pictures but all the drywall gutting is officially finished!! :D Man, I'm pooped...I'm posting to y'all at 1 am Cali time!

Boy, I'll be using the leaf blow to really blow out the garage now...what a freakin' mess. But now I have a fresh start! Yip-ee! :D

[Dan Stuewe]

We want to move our washer and dryer straight up to my walk in closet and move my stuff to the regular closet in the master bedroom. It shouldn't be too bad since there should be working space under the stairs. We're kinda paranoid about major laundry room leaks (my in-laws have had a couple and a co-worker had an upstairs water heater mess up her condo for several months). Anyway, besides the shutoff we thought about tileing the floor and adding a drain - kinda like a big shower pan. Anyway, John's comments about quick loads in the morning or anytime is what we are looking forward to.

[Jim Becker]

Dan, it's normal to put a pan under a washer to drain leaks, use steel-reinforced hoses and provide a water cutoff that should be "off" when the unit is not in use. This makes for the best installation in living space. When I moved the laundry from the basement to the second floor in my previous home (builder refused to do it!), I did all that and was quite comfortable with having the washer and dryer in what was formerly the smallest bedroom (9' x 10') that backed up to the master bath.

[Jamie Buxton]

Dan, it's normal to put a pan under a washer to drain leaks, use steel-reinforced hoses and provide a water cutoff that should be "off" when the unit is not in use. This makes for the best installation in living space. When I moved the laundry from the basement to the second floor in my previous home (builder refused to do it!), I did all that and was quite comfortable with having the washer and dryer in what was formerly the smallest bedroom (9' x 10') that backed up to the master bath.

The usual cut-off valve is a pain: you have to open it every time you do a load of clothes, and close it when you're done. Someplace I've seen an electrically-operated one. You plug the washer into it. When you turn on the washer, the electronics senses the current and opens the water valve. (If you have a tool-triggered shop vac like Fein makes, the function is exactly the same.) The idea is that somebody will be right there if the hose bursts, instead of everybody being out of the house. (http://www.laundry-alternative.com/intelliflow_howitworks.html)

Chris, you mention that one wall is faced with plywood. Probably that's shear-walling. If you had a wall built with just vertical and horizontal lumber, it could collapse sideways very easily. The plywood prevents that. Particularly in big earthquake country, shear-walling is good to have. Present-day construction practice in coastal California is to sheath the entire house with plywood -- for exactly this reason.

[Chris Padilla]

Jamie,

I also have diagnol strapping in various locations throughout walls but certainly, it would help in that respect, too.

I'm going to pitch the 2nd floor laundry to the wife...absolutely it does make sense to have it on the floor where 90% of the dirty clothes are at.

[Terry Hatfield]

Chris,

Ahh...there you are. I was beginning to wonder if your remodel project had done you in!!

It's looking good..well, sort of.... well, you know!!! It's always got to look worse before looking better and this sort of thing always and I mean ALWAYS has the "one thing leads to another" syndrome, Atleast for me.

Keep at it. You'll get there soon and all this will be more than worth it I bet!!

Terry

[Jim Becker]

Ahh...there you are. I was beginning to wonder if your remodel project had done you in!!
Keep in mind that Chris is existing on fast-food and dirty cloths...;)

[Terry Hatfield]

Keep in mind that Chris is existing on fast-food and dirty cloths...;)


I thought that was what everybody did when their wives were gone even if they didn't tear up the garage!! ;)

t

[Ron McNeil]

Chris, I'm sure the hard work will be worth it when the remodel is done. Looking forward to seeing completed pictures.

[Frank Pellow]

I'm going to pitch the 2nd floor laundry to the wife...absolutely it does make sense to have it on the floor where 90% of the dirty clothes are at.

Good!

I strongly, strongly recommend that you get the laundry room out of the garage. I created a laundry room by widening the hall on our main floor and it is probably the project that my wife has appreciated the most of all those that I have undertaken. And, if I had built the laundry room on the second story, Margaret probably would have liked it even better.

[Rich Konopka]

Dan, it's normal to put a pan under a washer to drain leaks, use steel-reinforced hoses and provide a water cutoff that should be "off" when the unit is not in use. This makes for the best installation in living space. When I moved the laundry from the basement to the second floor in my previous home (builder refused to do it!), I did all that and was quite comfortable with having the washer and dryer in what was formerly the smallest bedroom (9' x 10') that backed up to the master bath.

I also had a pan and shut off valve installed on my water heater. I had a big mess when the aqua-stat let go on the water heater and it spewed hot water into the basement. I lucked out that I had not finished framing in the basement. I only had two walls up.

The damage from the water heater was not from the water but from the humidity. Because my house is new and is air tight the basement ecame a sauna and I had rust buildup on my TS in the matter of hours.


Chris, as someone had indicated pay careful attention to the furnace and water heater. They do need air flow. If you can build a closet and a air vent to the outside you would be better off.

[Chris Padilla]

I spent today cleaning up the garage and using the leaf blower...YOWZER! :) Some folks walking by thought my garage was on fire with the "smoke" spewing out of it! :D

I pitched the move of the laundry to the wife...no dice! She really didn't discuss it much...just said, "nope!" and that was that.

When I informed my wife of looking forward to 10 days of fast food, she quickly cooked up a storm before she left and so no fast food for me although I only have 1 or 2 more days of food left. :D I treated myself to pizza tonight, however.

Tomorrow I am going to take a hard look at what to work on next. I think it will be doing some plumbing. The water softener needs to move for sure...just not sure exactly where. I'm going to clean up the washer/dryer area with a nice new shut-off valve.

The exterminator (Orkin) is coming between 11-1 (let's hope the infestation I found is old....) and I hope the HVAC guy will show up sometime tomorrow as well. I'm kinda anxious to tear out the old furnace/blower, pull out the water heater, and tear off that drywall. We'll see. Work, work, work....fun, fun, fun.... :D :D :D

[Frank Pellow]

I
I pitched the move of the laundry to the wife...no dice! She really didn't discuss it much...just said, "nope!" and that was that.



Sorry to hear that. Well, I guess that she can't blame you too much if there is sawdust in the laundry.

[Chris Padilla]

Sorry to hear that. Well, I guess that she can't blame you too much if there is sawdust in the laundry.Nope! :)

Orkin came by. I'm going to go for the Sodium Borate treatment for a $1350 cost. They will track the progress of the termites in the garage and use a carrying foam that flows through the channels to make sure any live termites are taken care of. They will spray this in the garage, the attic, and the crawlspace. They will come out 2-3 more times during the course of the first year and do more inspections and any other necessary treatments. After the first year, I can pay them $162/year to continue inspections and treatments. They can increase this premium a max of 10% every three years for as long as I own the house. Works for me...let's hope there is no extensive structural damage.

I'm now studying the HVAC/w/d area to figure out how I am going to route stuff and where exacty to put the partition and the garage sink. It takes some thinking! :D I'm also thinking to remove that side garage door and put in a window that can open. This will be a semi-pain since my exterior house finish is stucco but I can probably handle the plaster job...I think.

[JayStPeter]

Ouch ... shot to the budget there. Should take care of the problem though.

I had a house the borers wouldn't leave alone. Had it tented when I bought it. But, they came back in a couple years. Had the Boracare done and they never came back.

Jay

[Rob Littleton]

Nope! :)

Orkin came by. I'm going to go for the Sodium Borate treatment for a $1350 cost. They will track the progress of the termites in the garage and use a carrying foam that flows through the channels to make sure any live termites are taken care of. They will spray this in the garage, the attic, and the crawlspace. They will come out 2-3 more times during the course of the first year and do more inspections and any other necessary treatments. After the first year, I can pay them $162/year to continue inspections and treatments. They can increase this premium a max of 10% every three years for as long as I own the house. Works for me...let's hope there is no extensive structural damage.

I'm now studying the HVAC/w/d area to figure out how I am going to route stuff and where exacty to put the partition and the garage sink. It takes some thinking! :D I'm also thinking to remove that side garage door and put in a window that can open. This will be a semi-pain since my exterior house finish is stucco but I can probably handle the plaster job...I think.

Chris, I had a thought yesterday (dangerous I know) but, as they built the walls to my shop, I was looking at the maximum use of space. I thought of you coz your sheet rock is off and this may be old news but I havent heard it before.

Anyways, I am gonna sheet rock my walls but in between some studs, leave long shadow boxes (sheetrocked also) and utilize the space for clamps to hang and to store dowels. I figured a couple of dowels across the studs and differnt heights, make for a good dowel rack or magazine rack.....

(sigh) Oh the endless ideas I have :-)

Now, if it would just stop raining, I have some electrics to add :-(

[Jim Becker]

Rob, don't forget if you use any space between the studs for something other than insulation...your A/C and heat will be less effective.

[Jamie Buxton]

Rob, don't forget if you use any space between the studs for something other than insulation...your A/C and heat will be less effective.

Jim, you're telling us your shop is heated and air-conditioned??!!

I don't know whether to envy you, or call you a wimp, or both!

Jamie

[Jim Becker]

Jamie, I do have a window A/C unit that takes off humidity, but honestly, the good insulation keeps it pretty darn comfortable. I was out there today cutting trim for around that big bay window off the kitchen and it was a pleasant 76º without the A/C on in the shop and about 87º and humid outside. In the winter, I have three ceiling mounted electric radient units that do a fine job on all but the coldest days when I supliment with a kero heater...this all until I eventually finish the upstairs of the building and have a proper HVAC system.

Rob has indicated that he was putting in a Hot Dawg-type heater which up in the Prescott AZ area will quite necessary in the winter. They have snow there, but also very warm summers. I was just assuming he'd want to keep the hot air in or out as appropriate!

Sorry, Chris...didn't mean to hijack your thread!

[Chris Padilla]

Rob, not a bad idea...most of the open studs face the neighbor's house and so are *somewhat* protected as well as the other side of the garage, too. I could select a few choice stud bays to take advantage of. Thanks for the thought!

[Rob Littleton]

Rob, don't forget if you use any space between the studs for something other than insulation...your A/C and heat will be less effective.

Good point Jimbo...........

I was thinking of not using the whole bay and the space I dont use will be insulated.

Unlike Chris, mine is totally exposed all round.

Let me think about that.........cheers

[John Weber]

Chris,

One last washer/dryer comment, I know you don't plan to move soon (at least that is what I thought you said somewhere). An upstairs laundry can add a fair bit to your resale, around 1% of value depending on market, etc... Yeah, a big tub looks nice, but a second floor laundry is where the rubber hits the road - so to speak.

Also on your door, why not just change doors to an entry door with a window, and add a storm door with a full length screen. This is what I have, works great - no bugs a night with the door open. It would maybe be a bit more expensive then just a window, but a lot less work, and nice not to open the big door and show off your tools to the world. With the side door you can slip in and out unoticed.

John

[Chris Padilla]

Hey Guys!

Man o' man o' man! I just *finally* finished moving the water softener across the garage. A plumber I am not. It took me 2 20 hour days to get it all hooked up and then wouldn't you know it, LEAKS!!!! :( :mad:

So I get up early Thursday to finish up the *easy* part of the water softener move: sweating up the lines coming out from under the house and final attachment to the WS. Well, I got that going but while the fellas were spraying for termites under the house, they tell me it is like Niagra Falls under there! :( My heart sank into my feet as I only had minutes to go until I had to leave for the aiport in San Francisco to pick up my wife and daughter--day 2 of no shower, too! :(

It was bittersweet to see them because I would be bringing home a tired wife and kid to a house with no running water.... Well, as usual, my wife was totally understanding and I spent most of Thursday visiting with my wonderful little girl and understanding wife and took a break from the plumber fiasco.

Today I got back under the house, found two leaks: one was cake to fix, the other was a pain. After about 2 hours on the easy one and 5 hours on the hard one, I had it done! After 3 solid days of no showers (only 2 AM skinny dips in my freezing pool to rinse the dirt--thank God I was the only one home), I took a nice cold shower.

I have chewed up hands with two burns, a bruised back from crawling and laying in the lovely crawl space, scuffed up forearms and elbows, and an incredible wife who helped today go very smoothly by helping me with various items like turning the water main off and on, handing me cold drinks through the vents, handing me tools I had forgotten to bring, and most of all, for her patience and wisdom in helping me solve the water leak problems!

Wednesday an HVAC guy came by and for a little over 5k, I'm getting a whole new air filter, coil, lines, electrical, a/c, blower, and 2 zones...the whole nine yards. Should be real, real nice having the up and down stairs zoning--it is always so much hotter upstairs.

My garage project certainly is turning out to cost quite a bit and it sure is a lot of work but when it is finally all done and I look back, I'm sure pride will be swelling within me! I look forward to that day! :D

I'll get some more pics soon....

[Rich Konopka]

Chris,

I'm glad to hear the good news that your wife and daughter made it home safely.

[Chris Padilla]

Thanks, Rich...I'm so glad to have my family back! :D

[John Miliunas]

So, you're no plumber! (Me *neither*! Painful to even think about it!) BUT, you're a Daddy again! :D A Daddy with a patient and understanding bride. Hey, it don't get no better than that, my friend! :D Good luck with the rest of the project and enjoy your girls! :cool:

[Mark Singer]

Any chance of you coming over and helping me with a plumbing problem?:rolleyes:

[John Weber]

Wow, this has got to be the longest thread on the Creek, you will be at 10,000 views and 300 replies when you are finished, gotta have a goal.

Glad everyone is back, get to some fun stuff now - doing electric...

John

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Chris, I am sorry I missed this thread from it's start, what a transformation! I can say I do agree with the T&G pine on the walls suggestion (since I hate sheetrock).

I wish I could get my W/D out of the shop, but I have nowhere else to put them. Someday I hope to remodel my shop!

You've done a ton of work and it's looking like you're going to have a very nice shop in teh end. I love the curtain, reminds me of a log cabin's decor, I vote it stays too!

[Tom Sontag]

I am surprised nobody has brought this up yet but when I converted my detached garage, I used OSB instead of drywall. The biggest reason was that it makes hanging anything on the wall a piece of cake - lightweight stuff screws right in. Heavy stuff needs a stud, same as with drywall. The other reason was water - my situation is different than yours but water damaged drywall was something I just did not want to ever have to deal with.

So forget the drywall subcontract - slap up OSB (or John's pine idea) and run a 1x3 batten over each seam and prime and paint and you are done. If you have a nail gun then you will save tons of time too. Besides, it is working with wood. Sort of.

[Jamie Buxton]

I am surprised nobody has brought this up yet but when I converted my detached garage, I used OSB instead of drywall. The biggest reason was that it makes hanging anything on the wall a piece of cake - lightweight stuff screws right in. Heavy stuff needs a stud, same as with drywall. The other reason was water - my situation is different than yours but water damaged drywall was something I just did not want to ever have to deal with.

So forget the drywall subcontract - slap up OSB (or John's pine idea) and run a 1x3 batten over each seam and prime and paint and you are done. If you have a nail gun then you will save tons of time too. Besides, it is working with wood. Sort of.

Tom --
For the walls in Chris' garage which are not required to be fire-resistant, OSB would be a fine choice -- strong, not real expensive, and it works with the tools he already owns! However, for the walls and ceiling which are living space on the other side, the drywall forms part of the fire barrier and is required by code.
Jamie

[Chris Padilla]

Any chance of you coming over and helping me with a plumbing problem?:rolleyes:
...perhaps in exchange for a redesign and addition to our upstairs??? :D

I'm acutally pretty good now with sweating copper and understand better how water/steam and back pressure can make it difficult....

[Kelly C. Hanna]

My thoughts on OSB are well known in other forums, but I will say that I never use it for anything. I would not advise anyone to use it for walls in a shop, especially in a humid climate. I find it way too rough to use as wall surfacing. It doesn't handle screws or nails well over time if you want to hang anything on it. It's also not rated for fire codes where it will be exposed to the outside or inside.

[Jim Becker]

"No good project goes unpunished." Don't worry about the little surprises, Chris. They happen, especially in home improvement. And consider that you don't have a "vintage older home" which always promisses not only surprises, but puzzles that predate building codes!

'Glad your family is home with you, too!

[Tom Sontag]

My thoughts on OSB are well known in other forums, but I will say that I never use it for anything. I would not advise anyone to use it for walls in a shop, especially in a humid climate. I find it way too rough to use as wall surfacing. It doesn't handle screws or nails well over time if you want to hang anything on it. It's also not rated for fire codes where it will be exposed to the outside or inside.
Except for the fire code thing, how is this different than drywall? Roughness (ie texture) is not a problem in a shop. When it came time to run some electrical conduit along a wall, I had an easier time than if I were hanging it on drywall. Plus, when I shoot a scrap off the TS into the wall :rolleyes:, no wall divot to fix.

I don't mean to hijack here, but I am happy with mine. I did use drywall for the ceiling.

[Jim Ketron]

...perhaps in exchange for a redesign and addition to our upstairs??? :D

I'm acutally pretty good now with sweating copper and understand better how water/steam and back pressure can make it difficult....
Hey Chris Next time you have a problem with water coming to the heat when sweating copper, stuff some lite bread in the pipe to make a dam it works!
But you will need a way to flush out the bread when you get the joint finished.
Jim

[Chris Padilla]

I saw OSB at the borg a while back...it costs nearly triple over drywall (1/2") and perhaps double over the fire-rated 5/8" drywall I need for the garage. The OSB is only 7/16" thick. I thought about it but I think I will go for the drywall.

Jim B., the plumbing was sure a chore. Today I just finished *pretty-ing* up the washer hose hook-ups with a single lever-action ball-joint valve. I still need to do the same for the WS hook-ups and imagine that will take a day to day and a half of shut-down water. Sigh.... I also need to run some hard/soft water hose lines for general outside use along with lines for the garage sink that will be relocated...somewhere.... whew...this is a lot of plumbing work...lots of it!

Jim K., I read about the bread trick in one of my DIY books on plumbing but the old man didn't like the idea so I decided to not use it. I went the hard way in doing my best to dry out the lines with the torch...it takes some patience!

Here are a few action shots. Not much to see but it is all I have. I also took a pic of the vaulted ceiling portion of the garage. I go back to work on Monday, August 2nd...I can't hardly believe how quickly the time has gone by and "how little" I feel I have done! Oh well....

[John Miliunas]

Well, I think you're doing OK with it, Chris! I know it really kinda' sucks taking longer than planned, especially when one has to do stuff one isn't really used to, such as plumbing. :o For the few things I do hire out, it always hurts to part with the $$$, especially when you see how "easily" and quickly they do it! Then reality hits and you figure out it would've taken you many times as long and, after the umpteenth trip to the Borg for yet another part, you start to appreciate some of the skilled trades out there! Good luck with the rest of it!

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Remodeling is a lot like building a car. The experts say "figure out how long it's going to take you and how much it'll cost you, then double both numbers"! Sad but usually true. The good news is that it's worth it!

On the bread trick, I have used this one and all you have to do to clear the lines afterwards is turn the water on. You have to use the bread sparingly though or it won't come out!

[Jim Becker]

I have also used the bread method a number of times while replacing sections of copper. (pin-holeing due to acidic water) It works like a champ! Kelly is correct...just turn on the water and the bread goes bye-bye without a trace.

[Chris Padilla]

Well, I guess I'll give the bread trick a shot next time! I guess one should leave the crusts out?? ;) :D White, wheat, rye, or pumpernickel? :)

Thursday the HVAC guy is coming to remove the exisiting equipment and I will remove the drywall in that area. I obviously will need to replace the drywall before the new equipment is installed. Also, I'll need to move the water heater out of the way...no biggie there.

You might've noticed two blue pieces of tape on the garage floor. I was thinking that might be were the laundry room partition might go. The LOML and I are still deciding on the style of door to use...she isn't keen to use a normal door...might go pocket door.

Thanks for the kudos, John. Looking back on the project thus far, I am happy with the results but the path to get there was quite frustrating and stressful at times.

I still have a long way to go but just take it 1 day or 1 hour at a time! Thanks to everyone here for their thoughts and support...it really means a lot to me!

BTW, stealth gloat, my FS41 is currently sitting in Austin where they are holding it for me for as long as possible. I'm sad it is there and not here but frankly there is no room here for it...right now.... The remainding charge for it showed up on my Discover card, however! :eek:

[Jamie Buxton]

BTW, stealth gloat, my FS41 is currently sitting in Austin where they are holding it for me for as long as possible. I'm sad it is there and not here but frankly there is no room here for it...right now.... The remainding charge for it showed up on my Discover card, however! :eek:

Chris, you could park it in your driveway with a tarp over it. You'll get the shop done before the rains arrive. And it sure isn't likely that a casual thief can pick it up!!!

[Jim Becker]

You can be more creative than that, Jamie...seems to me your shop is pretty close by if I remember my geography correctly... :D

[Chris Padilla]

Ha! I think I'll leave it in Austin for a bit...*should* be safe there and out of my way....

[Jamie Buxton]

You can be more creative than that, Jamie...seems to me your shop is pretty close by if I remember my geography correctly... :D

Dang, you saw through my plan! :D

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I use plain old white bread since it sticks to itself better than wheat. I also leave the crusts out....

You sure have a lot of sidework involved with this shop makeover!

[Scott Coffelt]

I am anxious to follow the remodel and I am just getting buggy. :D

[Bart Leetch]

OK someone call the bug exterminator for Scott. Sounds like he needs it. :D :eek: :D :D

[Chris Padilla]

:) Sorry, Guys, nothing new in the shop for today...took the wife and kid to San Francisco for the day and enjoyed ouselves. I've included some shots of us near Coit Tower and at Pier 39...it was a lovely day in San Francisco today...I just love that city!

Demo for the HVAC stuff should happen tomorrow...I'll have a few pics of that.

Anyone have any good online "everything for the plumbing professional" type of site they'd care to share? I'm in somewhat desperate need of a flexible (copper, stainless/braided, etc.) hose. I want 3/4" MIP or FIP to 1" FIP. It is so frustrating that water softener manufacturers put 1" MIP. This causes me to add too long and too stiff of an adapter to get to 3/4" FIP. There are plenty of copper 3/4" FIP flex and stainless/braided 1" FIP. I'd even pay decent money to get someting custom if necessary...what a PITA....

Friday will be a trip to Big Sur and Hearst Castle...that may end up being an overnight gig....

[Jim Ketron]

Chris show me a pic of what you are trying to do maybe I can help you:confused:

Jim

[Chris Padilla]

Jim,

Here ya go:

Water softener is 1" MIP. I have a long, stiff 1" FIP to 3/4" FIP copper adapter that then connects to flex copper of 3/4" FIP (via threaded brass 3/4" tube) on both ends.

The whole mess then (temporarily) connects to copper 3/4" MIP.

I plan to put in some nice compression ball-valves for shut-off valves and then connect to the water softener hopefully through a nice simple flex copper or braided stainless or something or other....

[Jim Ketron]

Chris you can buy a brass 1"x3/4 Reducer and loose the copper If that is what is making it too long
Can you pipe it hard use the 1"X3/4'' reducer and loose the flex and add unions
and the valves. does the manf. sug the use of flex on the softener?
Jim
http://www.plumbingfittingsdirect.com/brass1/images/40400t.gif

[Chris Padilla]

Jim,

I was poking around the web. I think I will do what you suggest:

From the 3/4" wall copper, go into a compression ball valve (or perhaps a sweat valve), then a 3/4" x 1" male reducer, then some SS 1" flex, then the WS. I think this will make my life easiest and accomplish what I want.

I just need to find the 3/4" x 1" male reducer...not sure I noticed any at the places I've looked but I'll check aqain....

Thanks!

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Looks like you had fun in SF....a well deserved break!

[Scott Coffelt]

Chris, that's always much better then working in the shop. I'm with you.

Also, what impacts to water pressure will occur if you change from 1 to 3/4 then back 1? I thought the general idea was to keep the mains larger then step down as you get closer which increases the pressure. No plumber but I thought that's what I heard.

[Chris Padilla]

Scott,

I'm no plumber either but from what I've noticed, it seems that all water softeners come with 1" MIP. 3/4" copper feeds my house and so that is what I am going to stick with. That is how the WS was hooked up initially and our water pressure seems just fine and still does....

[Jim Ketron]

Chris, that's always much better then working in the shop. I'm with you.

Also, what impacts to water pressure will occur if you change from 1 to 3/4 then back 1? I thought the general idea was to keep the mains larger then step down as you get closer which increases the pressure. No plumber but I thought that's what I heard.
Scott the pressure will be the same
It doesn't matter what size pipe you run it will always have the same static pressure. But you are correct on the size part if you don't have enough volume(pipe size) your flowing pressure will be low.
Chris has 3/4 water mains. So going 3/4 to 1'' back to 3/4 will not hurt it at all it should be the same!
Jim

[Jim Ketron]

Jim,


I just need to find the 3/4" x 1" male reducer...not sure I noticed any at the places I've looked but I'll check aqain....

Thanks!
Chris most HD or any plumbing supply should have them.
If you want to get it online here is the site I found the pic I have never orderd from them www.plumbingfittingsdirect.com (http://www.plumbingfittingsdirect.com) has them

[Chris Padilla]

Well, Folks, I'm back to work. As usual, I didn't get near enough done that I thought I would but oh well.

I still hate plumbing but it was a good project and learning experience to move the water softener. I learned a lot about how the house is plumbed and what faucets get hard vs. soft water.

The garage is mostly gutted of drywall...the water softener is officially moved and working and not leaking...the HVAC has been gutted and now I have access to the drywall there.

I still need to button up/tidy up the plumbing move but it is essentially done and working fine.

I might actually get to some electrical work by this coming weekend! :D

Back to work, I owe, I owe, it's off to work I go....

P.S. Let me add that this will be the last time my wife is leaving me "Home Alone" for any appreciable length of time! :eek: :o

[Jim Ketron]

P.S. Let me add that this will be the last time my wife is leaving me "Home Alone" for any appreciable length of time! :eek: :o
LOL!!!
Shes afraid! very afraid!

[Chris Padilla]

Jim,

She is afraid. It was a fiasco moving the water softener but I'm glad I did it. It is in a much better place now. The previous installers were wimps to install it where they did...it was TONS harder to plumb it where I put it! :D

Here are some newer pics...not much exciting. I finally found a good solution to getting my water softener much closer to the wall:

http://www.falconstainless.com and click on the pic of the flex pipe. This is corrugated SS pipe made for all sorts of water hook-ups. I just ordered up 2 24" tubes for my water softener...only $8 a shot! :) I will put a nice loop in the tubes and scoot the ws closer to the wall. Here is where I am at now--you'll quickly see the need for the corrugated flex line I ordered....

I also had the HVAC system removed and now have access to the drywall there. I won't removed it all but I will remove some.

The last pic are the two most wonderful girls in my life...washing my truck! I could just watch 'em work all day! :D

[Jim Becker]

SO...you're like living without A/C right now?? And SWMBO still washed the truck for you??? Kewel!

Nice job on the plumbing, Chris!

[Chris Padilla]

Thanks, Jim. I will probably redo the ?-mark jimmy-jig I did with the copper to mate up to the WS once the corrugated SS lines arrives. This will be the third (and final!? 3rd time's a charm?) reworking of the WS area...sigh....

You may have noticed some capped tees on the 3/4" (and 1/2" line for that matter). I am going to run street/hard and house/soft water lines for outside hose use. The 1/2" capped tees will be for the garage sink...location unknown as of right now.

The installer for the HVAC stuff is being very stubborn about NOT showing up at the house! :mad: He is supposed to come look at my gas line plumbing and "off the clock" reroute it for me before/during/after he installs the HVAC stuff. I can't even get him out to my house to look at the gas lines so we can communicate what I want done. I don't mind plumbing copper lines (well, I do but I can do it) but I don't want to mess with black pipe and gas lines.

I guess I just need to be patient. I need the dryer and fireplace lines put in the wall and the two large gas lines slightly massaged to minimize protrusion beyond the studs. I just gotta wait I guess....

[Steve Clardy]

So---- after reading all this remodel and lots of different ideas on your garage shop, I have a question.
So-------where does the frig and coffee pot fit in? Those are just as important as a table saw!! lol
Steve

[Frank Pellow]

Chris, I enjoyed reading about all the work you did and progress you made while I was away at camp.

I hate plumbing too -and for reasons I cannot explain I often find myself doing plumbing. However, I made a conscientious decision not to put water into my new workshop. I am sure that this was a good decision.

[Tyler Howell]

I love to plumb....... as long as I don't have to bucket it out first!:o You have to learn to love the hot soldier dripping close to your arm!
Hang in there Chris. This too will pass.;)

[Chris Padilla]

I think it's getting close to time to post some new pics. I have made more progress but not sure it is really picture worth yet:

I had the gas-lines massaged...came out nice except for one spot. I'll see if I can get the plumber back in to fix it. If he want the remaining $200 I owe him, he'll be back to fix it!! :)

I got some more plumbing done for putting both hard/street water and soft/house water on an outside hose bib (well, two of 'em). That went pretty well and came out nice a clean for once. As I expected, the only joint that has a very slow leak is the threded section! I'll get some good pipe thread goop at the h/w store tonight to help seal them.

I have some electrical done but now the majority should start now that pretty much all the plumbing is done. I'll post some pics soon.

Steady as she goes...one task at a time! :)

[Tom LaRussa]

I have some electrical done but now the majority should start now that pretty much all the plumbing is done. I'll post some pics soon.

Chris, I can't remember if you've said whether you plan to do all the electrical yourself, farm some of it out, or what. Just in case you plan to farm some of it out, this outfit did some work for us just before we moved from Pleasanton.

Email: moonlite_electric@hotmail.com
Call (510) 799-WIRE(9473)
Fax (510) 799-9483

They're good people, don't charge too much, and are willing to work with you if you want to do part of the job yourself. Not sure if they take jobs down as far as SJ, but they do give free advice by phone, so they could come in handy anyway.

[Chris Padilla]

Thanks, Tom! Much appreciated. I have to admit that most of my "problems" (i.e. challenges) are in figuring out the best way to route stuff so I can get everything I need in and not put too many holes in the load-bearing walls! I think I've just about got it, however.

Jim Becker happens to be out here in the Bay Area today and will visit me this evening. I'm looking forward to picking his brain for my shop set-up! :D

[Jim Becker]

Jim Becker happens to be out here in the Bay Area today and will visit me this evening. I'm looking forward to picking his brain for my shop set-up!
Hopefully, this splitting headache will go away before this evening...but regardless, just remember how much you're paying for my thoughts... :D

[Chris Padilla]

Hopefully, this splitting headache will go away before this evening...but regardless, just remember how much you're paying for my thoughts... :D
We have things out here to cure headaches.... :D

[nic obie]

We have things out here to cure headaches.... :D

Like what?

You gonna get him stoned?

I know he sports a ponytail but don't you think......... ;)

[Chris Padilla]

I didn't say anything! :)

[Chris Padilla]

Latest stuff....

The first two pics are some before shots of the gas line. In the first pic, the meter is on the other side of the wall and I have two gas lines (1" and 1.25" for the pool heater) coming out that went on the outside of the wall and worked their way back to the water heater/furnance/etc. the second one is at the water heater. Notice that I have two tees off the water heater line: one feeds the gas dryer and the other feeds my fireplace insert...all routed on the outside of the wall.

Well, after some ca$h to a plumber, I now have most of the ugly gas line buried in the wall. Pic 3 shows the vertical rise totally buried. A sharp eye will also notice some 3/4" copper line for water feeding outside bibs (I have hard/street water and soft/house water lines there). I also ripped several strips of 3/4" birch plywood to make a box that will go around the gas lines' horizontal run.

Pic 4 shows two sides of the box put up (God, I LOVE my Kreg jig...LOVE IT!). A sharp eye should notice a tee in the upper gas line. This is the new line that feeds both the dryer and the fireplace insert all neatly tucked inside the wall cavity. It really cleaned up the area around the water heater quite nicely.

The last pic is the back of my main panel (yes, for whatever reason, the operator side of the main panel faces outside of all place--all house in my neighborhood are like this. So unless I lock it up, anyone could walk up to my house and kill all my breakers and thus all power in the house!) and you can see how I decided to extend the box past it so I could take advantage of the space to help me route electrical!

I will need to take more pics of the progress made last weekend as I've now got some plastic conduit run in the box.

Fun, fun, fun!!!

[Jim Ketron]

Looking good Chris!!
You are just like me (all you lack is finishing):D
Jim

[JayStPeter]

Looking good Chris!!
You are just like me (all you lack is finishing):D
Jim

Don't listen to him, I think he's superman or something. Your stuff goes at a pace I'm more familiar with. :rolleyes:

Glad to see the curtain is still hanging in there :D

Jay

[Jim Ketron]

Don't listen to him, I think he's superman or something. Your stuff goes at a pace I'm more familiar with. :rolleyes:

Glad to see the curtain is still hanging in there :D

Jay
LOL!! your funny Jay.:D :D

[Jerry Olexa]

The Smithsonion wants that curtain!! In spite of the harrassing, you are doing a great job with quite a few unplanned obstacles! Thanks for avatar...Brad:)

[Bruce Page]

The Smithsonion wants that curtain!! In spite of the harrassing, you are doing a great job with quite a few unplanned obstacles! Thanks for avatar...Brad:)Jerry, with a mug like that, you should be in Hollywood making movies! :p

[John Miliunas]

Jerry, with a mug like that, you should be in Hollywood making movies! :p

Can't hardly argue with that, but coming from a guy with antlers on his head.... :eek: :D

Hey Jerry, how "North" in IL are you? :confused: :cool:

[Jerry Olexa]

I'm 30 minutes from Lake Geneva in McHenry County. Ive been up to Badger Hardwoods, We go To Lake Geneva pretty often and once in a while to Door County as well as the Kenosa Factory outlets (where's theres a B&D outlet and u could get a cheap interim blade for that Forrest for about $20). Never been to Kettle Moraine Hardwoods but plan to do so altho Now i'm looking for roughsawn now that I have a new planer.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

As long as the curtain is there things will go well for you Chris :D keep up the good work.

[Chris Padilla]

Hey Guys...let's keep this a bit more on topic, shall we? :)

A few more pics of the box...starting to fill it up with conduit, romex, copper, etc. :D :D

First pic shows some plastic conduit in the box. You might catch some flex heading up the stud bay to mate with the plastic. I used plastic flex to attach to the metal flex. The plastic flex then attached to the plastic conduit. Kinda crazy but it all worked and made the 90-degree bend sooo much easier on me.

Second pic shows more of the box. That white, thick romex hanging there is 8/3 that I salvaged from under the house...it was used for the a/c and will again be put into service for the new a/c. I am, of course, rerouting it better. Man, that stuff is hard to pull!!

Third pic is the back of the main panel. Again, that plastic flex came into handy although I figure out later that I should have used some metal flex...no reason to use plastic here and these little pieces of plastic flex complete with male ends are pricey at $5/shot. However, they made the job easier where I need them to over non-flex. I am being careful with running metal flex in the box due to the copper already in there...copper is a pain on the galvanic scale. Besides, plastic conduit is 1/4th the cost of EMT or flex and it bends pretty nicely. I'd still be struggling with bending EMT had I gone that route....:rolleyes:

The fourth pic shows a cleaned up w/d area. Notice the missing two gas lines coming off near the water heater...this is so much nicer/cleaner...worth every penney I paid for it.

[Richard Blaine]

:) Sorry, Guys, nothing new in the shop for today...took the wife and kid to San Francisco for the day and enjoyed ouselves. I've included some shots of us near Coit Tower and at Pier 39...it was a lovely day in San Francisco today...I just love that city!
I hope you don't mind a little critique on your photos.

If you'd like to improve the quality of your family snapshots, one thing you can do is have the people stand a little closer to the camera. For example, on the photo of you and your daughter with Coit Tower as the backdrop, I would have had you stand ten feet closer to the camera. The Tower will still be in the background just as you have it, but you and your daughter will become a more integral part of the photo. Just make sure that you're not so close that the depth of field will put you or the background out of focus.

I know you didn't ask, but this is what happens when you've been a photographer for thirty years.

[Chris Padilla]

Thanks, Richard...appreciate the insight...I'm a point and click kinda guy and I manage to do okay that way! :D

No progress worthy of pictures to update y'all with. It is a lot of little crap here and there but it is all important in the scheme of things.

I've decide (once again with the while yer at its...) to pick up a 500' spool of 2+2 wiring. 2+2 wiring has 2 RG-6 coax and 2 Cat5e UTP cables kinda glued together. I decided to skip the 2+2+2 which tosses in two MM optical cables. I'm going to put a distribution panel/center in the partition wall that I still need to build.

I spent the Labor-Day weekend thinking about and building/extending that box I put around the gas lines such that I could get access to the shaft created by the HVAC equipment that reaches all the way to the attic above the second floor. This will make getting the bundled wire to the 4 bedrooms much easier. This boxing in of the gas-lines is really saving my collective butt...I'm able to put a lot of stuff in it. I've already decided to make the box lid removable for future cramming.

With the garage opened up, I can also wire the downstairs in a few locations. Fun, fun, fun...when will it ever be done! :D

[Jim Becker]

I've decide (once again with the while yer at its...) to pick up a 500' spool of 2+2 wiring. 2+2 wiring has 2 RG-6 coax and 2 Cat5e UTP cables kinda glued together. I decided to skip the 2+2+2 which tosses in two MM optical cables.
Ah, let me know if you end up with some left over...I'm planning on using the same between the house and the shop building at some point and if you have about 150' or so when you're done...I'll buy it from you.

[Chris Padilla]

Jim,

You have a deal. It'll make swallowing the large pill for the spool easier if I know I can make some back by selling what I have left. However, rough calculations shows I may use a good 400' + but I'll keep you mind if I have any decent length left over. :)

[Dan Mages]

Chris. You might want to check to see if you can get your hands on a set with CAT6 instead of CAT5. Might as well go with the best tech available.

Dan

[Chris Padilla]

Dan,

They don't bundle Cat6 and besides, they are already pushing 1000BaseT over Cat5...it'll be around a long, long time. :) They can even push 10GigE over Cat5...for about 3 meters! :)

[Zahid Naqvi]

Dan,

They don't bundle Cat6 and besides, they are already pushing 1000BaseT over Cat5...it'll be around a long, long time. :) They can even push 10GigE over Cat5...for about 3 meters! :)

If you are wiring for LAN why not go wireless.

[Chris Padilla]

Zahid,

Perfectly valid question! While I am wiring for LAN, that isn't the whole thing. Basically, I'm putting in infrastructure for future stuff: phone lines, LAN, cable, audio, visual, home theater, etc. I have the garage opened up and it will make wiring easier so what the hey...put wires in wherever I might want them and then we will see how they work out in the future. They say to put in 10x the wiring you think you'll need NOW, and in 10-20 years it might come in handy...or next year. The garage will be the distribution point for all this stuff.

Right now, we go through a modem and dial-up to work (Cisco). We just don't have a serious need for broadband at the house...yet.... I pride myself in staying off the 'net and away from email over the weekend.

I went to http://www.hometech.com (they have a local store here) and picked up a 500' spool of "banana-peel" 2+2 made by Belden for $319. I'll post a pic tomorrow...it is pretty cool looking seeing such a large spool in my garage! :D

[Jim Becker]

I went to http://www.hometech.com (http://www.hometech.com/) (they have a local store here) and picked up a 500' spool of "banana-peel" 2+2 made by Belden for $319. I'll post a pic tomorrow...it is pretty cool looking seeing such a large spool in my garage! Smarthome.com is a little less for this product if spiral wrap is ok for you. $309 for jacketed and $269 for spiral wrapped plus $25 shipping. http://smarthome.com/8682.html Scroll down to the bottom of that page and they also have an auction for the same which is currently (as I write this) at $230.:p

[Chris Padilla]

Yeah, the banana-peel is a bit smaller in overall radius to make for easier 90s and it is easier to peel apart for sorting. I like the Belden name, too. As you well know, Cat5e from vendor to vendor varies all over the place. I find plenty of Cat5e that doesn't meet the spec. It makes for difficult testing in my job at times: am I getting a real failure or is the cable so out of spec it radiates (or is susceptible to) noise?? The magnetic vendors love cable, too. At least Belden is a name I know and trust so I decided to pay a little more. Besides, no shipping (although tax here is a whopping 8.25% so probably a wash) and I have it in my garage NOW! :D

Now I gotta rig up a little stand for it so I can pull it easily off the spool.

[Dan Mages]

Chris. I installed a panel and bundled wire kit from Future Smart (http://www.futuresmart.com) in my house. The wiring has 2 CAT6, 2 RG6, and 2 fiber bundled together. It was an interesting project and a fun install.


Dan

[Chris Padilla]

Doh! I guess I stand corrected. How did you terminate the Cat6 cable? The cable may be Cat6 rated but I wonder about the RJ45 you used...those could possibly be Cat5. Also, any patch cables, etc. and even the ports on any cards will all still be Cat5 or 5e but, hey, at least your infrastructure is all set for a long, long time.

What are you doing with the fiber cable? I opted to not go with it due to cost and frankly, I just don't see a need for it. Terminating the optical cable is pricey and tricky work, too.

Looks nice...I plan to put some sort of a panel in my house but not right away...perhaps in a year or two.... The Future Smart stuff does look very nice, however. I saw it at the place I bought my wire...they had a nice little display set up with 3 or 4 vendor's panels.

[Dan Mages]

I used CAT 5e plugs for the CAT6 wires. I dont need that type of power just yet. The fiber is just roughed in for right now. The bundle was only 20 cents extra a linear foot with fiber (I think). I dont have the skills, tools, or money to terminate it. Besides, I dont have any need at the moment for fiber.

Dan

[Chris Padilla]

Couple a new pics to show you but still nothing spectacular.

First pic is a 500' spool of bundled (banana peel) 2+2 wiring that I've decide to string all over the house. It contains 2 RG6 coax and 2 Cat5e UTP cables in one bundle. Belden is a good strong brand so I paid a little more for this spool ($319). The banana peel is a tad smaller in diameter than the jacketed stuff so it'll bend a little easier around corners and it also comes apart for sorting much more easily, too.

I'm going to put in a distribution panel much like Dan did above...later on.

Pic 2: After several PMs with Mr. 3-phase, Rob Russell, I've decided to relocate a sub-panel to a more appropriate spot. I was thinking to put that sucker under my house in the crawl space but it most likely wouldn't meet code so it is back into the garage. The cable hanging loosely above is some 8/3 NM that was strung for the original A/C. The black tape is a repair job to insulation that for whatever reason, mice seem to enjoy eating or chewing on. I've reloacted this cable. It will tap off the main panel via a 40 A breaker and feed this subpanel..the "A/C" sub-panel.

The main reason to run the 8/3 into a sub-panel is so I can put in a 15 A breaker to run some lights and outlets under the crawl space for my own convenience. So this sub-panel will need a 40 A breaker for the A/C and a 15 A breaker (maybe two) for lights/outlets.

I had the sub-panel already so I was trying to find a use for it and now I have it! :)

Many thanks to Rob for his patience in answering my 100s of PMs! :D

[Dan Mages]

You probably already know this, but make sure you run the cable 18" from any electrical cable and only cross any electrical cable at a 90 degree angle. This will minimize any signal degridation and interferance.

Dan

[Chris Padilla]

Dan,

Yep...I'll just have to be careful with overall shielding of either the electrrical and/or the telecom stuff. Unfortunately, I'll have at least one run of parallel: some 8/3 NM and the 2+2 for a good 20 feet! I think I'll put the 2+2 into some flex conduit and ground it well. No choice, unfortunately. :( Thanks for the reminder, however! :)

I'll post a few more pics and I've gotten the partition wall started. Slow, slow, slow but surely forward.... :D

[Jim Becker]

Yep...I'll just have to be careful with overall shielding of either the electrrical and/or the telecom stuff. Unfortunately, I'll have at least one run of parallel: some 8/3 NM and the 2+2 for a good 20 feet!
I know that that EMI thing is so new to you... :D

[Rob Russell]

Chris,

I hadn't looked at your garage post for a while. That chase you've built for all that stuff may generate some code violations.

It's a good thing the back is open, that way you can tell the AHJ it's a decorative cover for the wire/pipes. Let's hope they buy that. Otherwise, if they call it a "raceway", that would cause you some real grief because I don't believe you can run plumbing pipes through an electrical raceway. I seem to remember a code req about low voltage separation from line voltage, but can't find it. You might check with the AHJ before you go a whole lot further and cause yourself a ton of rework. If they decide to call that a raceway - you're cooked. No matter what, if you're running hot water through there, you want to insulate the pipe to minimize heating of the conductors.

Rob

[Chris Padilla]

Sigh.... No good deeds or bright ideas goes unpunished!

No hot water is running through there although I was going to do it for a short run but maybe I'll run that copper slightly differently.

It is/was decorative to cover all that ugly gas line until I got the bright idea to run conduit through it to make my life easier to wire up the garage.

I do plan to make it accesible with a removable lid.

Before I did all this, there was EMT running along side of the gas pipes. All I'm doing now is boxing it in (decorative) and, well, adding a lot more crap in it! Maybe I'd better vent this thing, eh? :) Run a fan through it? :D

Sigh...maybe I ought to keep the AHJ out of my garage! :o

[Rob Russell]

Now, I know you wanted to say was really http://www.fadzter.com/smilies/censored.gif .

OK - from the NEC (Article 100 - Definitions) : "Raceway - An enclosed channel of metal or nonmetallic materials ...". By definition, your wooden chase can't be a raceway.

BTW - if you're back to running a "40 amp subpanel, with a 40 amp breaker in it" - I'd ask your AHJ about that. They may give you grief about having a subpanel with a 100% load running off of it. If you have the 8/3, run a subpanel for the lighting and receptacles (you do need a convenience receptacle out by the A/C unit) and a separate 8/3 run straight to the A/C and a outdoor weatherproof disconnect switch (not a subpanel).

[Chris Padilla]

Yeah, we are a clean and friendly community here...no need for that kind of language to be printed...but I can sure think it! :D

Okay, no raceway...whew! :)

I currently have a "40 A subpanel with a 40 A breaker in it (and two 15 A breakers)" so I guess I'll need to get clarification for this. Too bad my 8/3 is NM or this subpanel just became a 50 A one and no worries.... :( So close yet so far.... Hmm, maybe I'll go price a ~40' run of non-NM 8/3 that can take a 50 A breaker. What kind of 8/3 will I need to look for, Rob?

[Rob Russell]

Yeah, we are a clean and friendly community here...no need for that kind of language to be printed...but I can sure think it! :D

Okay, no raceway...whew! :)

I currently have a "40 A subpanel with a 40 A breaker in it (and two 15 A breakers)" so I guess I'll need to get clarification for this. Too bad my 8/3 is NM or this subpanel just became a 50 A one and no worries.... :( So close yet so far.... Hmm, maybe I'll go price a ~40' run of non-NM 8/3 that can take a 50 A breaker. What kind of 8/3 will I need to look for, Rob?

Ask the AHJ if you can "relocate" the existing 40 amp subpanel and whether there are any restrictions on relocating it. That's the easiest route. If your area has adopted updated code since that sub was installed, they may disallow the 40 in a 40.

If you want to run a larger subpanel, SER (aluminum) #6 is good for 50 amps, SER #4 is good for 60 amps. If you go with NM, #6 is good for 55 amps, #4 is good for 70. SER is cheaper than NM.

[Chris Padilla]

Rob,

Perhaps I should make it clearer about this subpanel. I bought this (100 A rated, I'm pretty sure) subpanel two years ago to add a few circuits to my garage when I did a bathroom remodel (they share a wall with the house panel).

Now that I'm pulling all the garage circuits from the main panel, I no longer need this new 100 A subpanel until I came up with the bright idea to use it as an "A/C" sub-panel and run it with the 8/3 NM feeder.

Now I'm thinking to replace the 8/3 NM feeder with something that can be protected with a 50 A breaker in the main. Then I can use the 8/3 NM protected with a 40 A breaker to run to the A/C.

Clear as mud now? :)

(I was only calling it a 40 A subpanel 'cause it is [currently] protected off the main via a 40 A breaker...sorry for the confusion)

[Scott Coffelt]

Would that be Mississippi Mud or California Mud, what about a Mud Pie?

[Chris Padilla]

Mudslide!...we get those here! :)

[Jim Becker]

Mudslide!...we get those here!
Isn't that a beverage to be taken internally after working your buns off in the shop construction?? :eek:

[Chris Padilla]

Rob,

I found some 6/3 NM for $1.39/ft. at local h/w store...will check the borg and see what they have. I think I will replace the 8/3 feeding the sub-panel and "do it right" and sleep better at night. The "40-40" never really sat well but I will correct it now. Being a cheapa$$ was invading my thoughts here...this darn garage project really is adding up.

Stealth gloat, a VERY LARGE BOX (weighing nearly a 1/2 ton) will be showing up at the house between 10-12 Monday morning. It is coming from Austin, TX, but was originally built over in Europe.... ;)

[Jim Becker]

Stealth gloat, a VERY LARGE BOX (weighing nearly a 1/2 ton) will be showing up at the house between 10-12 Monday morning. It is coming from Austin, TX, but was originally built over in Europe....
'Hope you arranged for lift-gate service! (Congratulations...)

[Rob Russell]

I found some 6/3 NM for $1.39/ft. at local h/w store...will check the borg and see what they have. I think I will replace the 8/3 feeding the sub-panel and "do it right" and sleep better at night. The "40-40" never really sat well but I will correct it now. Being a cheapa$$ was invading my thoughts here...this darn garage project really is adding up.

6/3 NM will allow you to run a 55 amp subpanel. Given standard breaker sizes, that means a 50 amp sub. FYI, if you ran plastic conduit and pulled #6 THHN/THWN, you'd be able to run a 60 amp sub.




Stealth gloat, a VERY LARGE BOX (weighing nearly a 1/2 ton) will be showing up at the house between 10-12 Monday morning. It is coming from Austin, TX, but was originally built over in Europe.... ;)

Only 1/2 a ton? Piece of cake! http://www.fadzter.com/smilies/thumbsup.gif Congrats.

[Chris Padilla]

Only 1/2 a ton? Piece of cake! http://www.fadzter.com/smilies/thumbsup.gif Congrats.
Yeah, I'll have to really work it getting it through my 15' wide garage door but the slope on my driveway...now that's killer! :eek: :D :p

[Rob Russell]

Yeah, I'll have to really work it getting it through my 15' wide garage door but the slope on my driveway...now that's killer! :eek: :D :p

Chris, You want steep? I'm attaching a picture of the driver getting my machines off the truck. I had specified liftgate delivery. Our driveway is so steep that he couldn't get the machines up the inside off the trailer onto the liftgate. He parked in the street, got the machine down onto the liftgate, and then backed up the driveway with the machine as shown.

Be still my beating heart!

Rob

[Paul B. Cresti]

Chris,
Congrats on the MM finally docking. I have had mine up and running for a little while now and all I can say is it is a beautiful machine. I am not sure what phase machine you have but my 3 phase one has two feed speeds for plannning. One is slower, but not that slow, and the other is amazingly fast. I can put a 6 foot board in one side and by the time I walk over to the other side it is through. Oh by the way not one bit of snipe anywhere!

[Chris Padilla]

Haven't posted much lately on the Garage Gut. :)

Well, I've made enough progress that the FS-41 Elite needed to finally come out of its owner-induced coma! It is in my way and not easy to drag around while on the crate so I finally had some fun and took it out! :D You can see a large 500' spool of 2+2 Telecom cable that I'm planning to install.

The next 3 pics show some shots of the new partion wall that I put in to keep the washer/dryer area clean. I've got it all wired, plumbed water and drain/vent for the sink that will go right next to the door. I've also put in a 38" Channel Vision distribution panel for the 2+2 wiring that I will get to one of these days.

And, a parting shot of the monster J/P. :)

[Chris Padilla]

Few more shots. :)

[Jim Becker]

Oooh! Oooh! Oooh! The curtins are gone!! 'Looks like a certain young lady got her ears lowered, too...

Nice J/P. Good choice, especially since it's "real" now that there are pictures. :p

[Chris Padilla]

LOL!

Sad story there. I decided to wash the curtain as I had every intention of keeping it--Honest! :) It came out of the washer completely shredded and falling apart. I had to toss it...sorry! :)

[Ed Moehlenpah]

aren't you about ready for drywall then? I didn't see the j/p at the woodshow in San Mateo. I thought I might actually see one on display.

Ed

[Frank Pellow]

Chris, its good to see this thread re-activated.

I enjoyed all the new pics and especially the ones of your daughter driving your new "toy".

I am sure that everyone will be happy that the washer and drier are in their own partition.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Looks like there's a driver in the garage...er shop!! Cute little girl for sure. The MM looks happy to be outta the box Chris!

[Dale Thompson]

Hey San josey,
That is one really sweet little assistant that you have there. The smile is a killer!! :) Does she ever kid you about your funny looking proboscis?? NAW - she's probably WAY to nice to do that. ;) :)

Dale T.

[John Miliunas]

Awright! I was starting to wonder if you had *anything* in that big box! :rolleyes: So now that you have additional inspiration staring you in the face, I'll bet you start stepping the pace up a bit on finishing the shop! You've made some pretty good progress since you last shop progress post. Keep up the great work! Oh, and your daughter looks like one beautiful bundle of happiness! :) Get that shop done before you have to be spending your time chasing the guys away! :) :cool:

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Chris that is one beautiful girl there. She's so photogenic I think she should be in the movies. Then you can buy even more MM machines. Shame about the curtains but I'll never forget them. Alan

[Tyler Howell]

:cool:
CA Dude!

Looking good. Say if I missed it, make sure you have a good ground.
All your (Very) $$$$ electronics are here and one good ZAP can take them.
Good grounding and bonding will also minimize interference.
Taken a couple trouble call in the last month that involved this type of equipment and problem.

[Jon Olson]

Chris--The garage looks great. A lot of slick wiring and the partition wall is perfectly placed. Will really allow the garage to function smoothly. The J/P top is massive, aircraft carrier style. That willl sure make a lot of edges straight.

Your daughter lights up the room.

Jon

[Greg Narozniak]

Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very JEALOUS of that J/P, great looking machine. Maybe Jim B can sell me one in Ft. Washington :)

[Chris Padilla]

You guys are too much! ;)

The wall of the garage the C-man tool chest and the J/P are on needs wiring so that is one of the last major items to complete. I'm sure I can knock it out this weekend.

After that, I'm going to dig hard into some soundproofing measures for a couple walls/ceiling in the garage to try and keep some noise out of the house. (http://soundproofing.org/). After that, Ed, I will insulate and should be ready for drywall. :) When? Hard to say. I think I'll be lucky to have the place drywalled before Christmas to be honest! :o

Tyler, I'm pretty happy with my EGC/bonding and we don't get much lightning around here anyway. However, I may take some extra steps to further ground the flex I will snake through that "raceway" that will contain the 2+2 wiring (Telecom).

I'll try and keep the thread more updated...I just kept forgetting to take pics for some reason. :)

Yeah, my lil' assistant...she's great...always wants to see what I am up to in the garage. :)

[Chris Padilla]

Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very JEALOUS of that J/P, great looking machine. Maybe Jim B can sell me one in Ft. Washington :)
Wow...jealousy is one of the seven deadly sins, Greg! :eek: ;) ...and you've got it very²°!! ;)

I feel bad...what is your shipping address? I'll make sure Jim sends you his.... :p

[Greg Narozniak]

Wow...jealousy is one of the seven deadly sins, Greg! :eek: ;) ...and you've got it very²°!! ;)

I feel bad...what is your shipping address? I'll make sure Jim sends you his.... :p


With that J/P Unit I could have went on a lot longer :D LOL

[Jerry Olexa]

Chris, BOTH Martha Stewart and the Smithonian are upset over the lost curtain. They both had big plans for displaying it for future generations. Seriously, your shop/project is looking good and your daughter is a treasure!!

[Dan Mages]

Wow...jealousy is one of the seven deadly sins, Greg! :eek: ;) ...and you've got it very²°!! ;)

I feel bad...what is your shipping address? I'll make sure Jim sends you his.... :p

Don't forget that commandment about coveting your neighor's property. Nice toyl there. When are you going to put it to use?

Dan

[Chris Padilla]

I hope to at least turn it on before the end of the year!! :eek: Pathetic, aren't I? :o

I just have to focus on getting the shop done...focus, focus, huh? what was that?, oh, umm, focus, focus.... :rolleyes:

[Jim Becker]

I feel bad...what is your shipping address? I'll make sure Jim sends you his....
I think his original idea is much better...and I'm sure Michael and Sam will be glad to send him one of his own after I do a little "arm twisting" this weekend. (I'm just playing the Vanna White roll for the show... :D )

[Chris Padilla]

Guys,

I'm going to insulate everywhere I can. Do you reckon I need to put up a vapor barrier in the garage? What about the partition? What is it that determines a need or no need for a vapor barrier...is it a temperature gradient? How much of one is needed in order to dictate a vapor barrier? Frankly, I'd rather not go through the trouble/expense if I can be convinced. There wasn't much insulation in this garage in the first place and where there was, no vapor barrier was put up.

[Denny Lawson]

I hope to at least turn it on before the end of the year!! :eek: Pathetic, aren't I? :o

I just have to focus on getting the shop done...focus, focus, huh? what was that?, oh, umm, focus, focus.... :rolleyes:

Well if the old saying is true that one must take time to enjoy the journey..not just the destination..

Then you are having one heck of a Journey:eek: :D

Just funnin ya..This is the first time I've seen what was in the mystery box...coool:cool:

[Michael Stafford]

Chris, in general a vapor barrier is needed whenever you have heated space. Its purpose is to prevent warm moist air from condensing in the insulation as it passes from the heated space to the unheated exterior wall. Does that help? Keeps the insulation from getting watersoaked and losing its insulation value.

[Chris Padilla]

Hmm, looks like I should bite the bullet and put up a vapor barrier. I did have the HVAC guy plumb in an air register for heat or a/c....

[Scott Coffelt]

I think that if you at least have a vapor barrier on any internal (living area) walls your OK. I doubt you'll gain much for exterior garage walls.

[Chris Padilla]

Yeah, that was what I was looking for: living area vs. exterior. That'll save me some time and money to just VB those areas. Cool!

[Kelly C. Hanna]

You live in a somewhat dry state, I'm not sure how necessary it is, but if you do add it, you'll never have to worry about it.

[Chris Padilla]

Kelly,

True, but it does get a bit wet around here in the winter. You know it is a psuedo-Mediterranean climate here: cool wet winters, warm dry summers....

[Kelly C. Hanna]

In that case I would definitely do it. I know it's a whip though. I put on Tyvek once...what a pain!!

[Tom LaRussa]

Chris,

Long time no update...

Sheet rock up?

Don't be afraid to post new pics. We've (mostly) forgiven you for the curtain incident. ;)

[Chris Padilla]

Been a while, eh?? :) I have a few pics to post. :D

[Jim Becker]

SO, like...is there drywall yet?? ;) It really helps contain the sawdust that escapes the tools and cyclone...hee hee

[Chris Padilla]

Drywall? Paint?? Lights??? Okay, working on the lights...electricity is all done, however! :D :D

[John Miliunas]

Dang it, man! You're FAST!!! From studs to drywall in under 10 min. flat!:eek: I think you've found a new calling!:D Lookin' good, Chris!:) :cool:

[Jim Becker]

That's more like it, Chris...I can almost imagine sawdust any day now!

[Chris Padilla]

I've got those $40 T-8 fluourescents from Home Depot going in now. You need sunglasses in there when on. I bought 6 8 footers and I have 3 in and it already seems like plenty.

I love these T-8s!!! Silent as the dead of night!!

More pics at the end of the week as I finish those up.

Next will be airlifting the compressor back to where it was and then working on the DC!!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Go Chris! Glad to hear about those $40 T-8s! I've got 10 of them sitting in the way. I'll post pictures later on my accomplishments in the last week. Doggone computer has suddenly quit recognizing my wife's digital camera?

[Jon Olson]

WOW!!! Well done - much nicer than when I saw it last. The white out effect helps with the lights. You gonna paint a mural up on the wall?? :)

Jon

[Chris Padilla]

C'mon by, Jon! :) I painted it a semi-gloss white...there should be no shadow lines in this garage! :) Probably no murals either...unless my daughter gets a hold of some finger paints and tries to "help" daddy..... :D

[Steve Clardy]

Hey Brother Chris. I don't see Mom's favorite window curtain there.:confused:
You didn't throw it out did you?:confused::confused::eek::eek::eek:

[Jerry Olexa]

Chris, I too miss the curtain! It added character to your project:D . Seriously, you are pumping, man. Looks good. The wiring alone and pipes etc looks like a worthwhile project. Good choices. Thanks for the update.

[Chris Padilla]

Wow, it was a like a stroll down memory lane going through ALL the pics I posted in this thread. It sure has been a lot of work and there is still more to come.

My wife finally put her foot down (although quite gently in my opinion) and said that I have until the end of August to SOLELY work on the garage before I need to get back to the entertainment center in the TV room in the house. I feel fairly certain I can get quite a bit done by then but you never know...look how long it has taken me thus far! :)

Oh, that curtain is long gone. I put it in the washer to clean it up to reuse (honest, I did) and it came out of the washer completely shreaded so I was forced to toss it out! :D

[Kelly C. Hanna]

You mangled the curtain??? :eek: :eek: :eek: You better get another one equally as campy fast buddy!!!

[Cecil Arnold]

Chris, my mama told you can go to H--- for fibbing the same as for stealing. You sure about that curtain?

[Bruce Page]

Wow Chris, what a transformation! The new rock really looks good. I only have one concern for ya; the laundry room looks way, way too large! ;)

[Chris Padilla]

:D

Yes, the curtain was really a mess after washing...I was quite surprised when I pulled it out of the washer. I think the dirt was holding it together! :)

Yeah, the laundry room did take some area away from me but I'll survive!

:D

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Chris, that is really looking great! Nice and bright!! Looks like you are setting your shop up right, for years to come.

[Jim O'Dell]

Chris, it's looking real good. I'll be glad when I get to the drywall point on my remodel.
Couple things: Whats the idea behind the 4-gang electrical outlets above the doors? I don't think I've ever seen that before. And, the plug-in portable radio sitting on the sink is scaring me a little ;-))). Good to see the progress you've been making. Jim

[Bob Hovde]

Sheesh! Now I can't show LOML your garage pictures any more to show her what I need to do. She'll ask why I didn't paint after putting up the sheetrock. I guess I'll have to go back and do it now. :mad:

Bob

[Chris Padilla]

Chris, it's looking real good. I'll be glad when I get to the drywall point on my remodel.
Couple things: Whats the idea behind the 4-gang electrical outlets above the doors? I don't think I've ever seen that before. And, the plug-in portable radio sitting on the sink is scaring me a little ;-))). Good to see the progress you've been making. Jim

I'm putting in a DVD/VCR/TV there...the other opening contains cable! :D Probably shoulda just left it as a single outlet but I think I didn't have the right mudring handy so....

The radio has been moved...no worries! :D

[Chris Padilla]

Sheesh! Now I can't show LOML your garage pictures any more to show her what I need to do. She'll ask why I didn't paint after putting up the sheetrock. I guess I'll have to go back and do it now. :mad:

Bob

After buying north of $350 in insulation from HD, I found that they had (for a short, short time) a $90 gift card for buying that much insulation. So I took that and bought a 5 gallon bucket of exterior grade semi-gloss white for $94! It has worked out well...it is VERY bright in the garage...shouldn't be any shadow lines anywhere! :D

[Steve Aiken]

Chris, looks great. Lots of workmanship here.

What did you do for electrical, did you use a multi-wire circuit for your receptacle quads so each receptacle is on a different circuit? How many circuits did you put in for 120v receptacles and how many receptacles per circuit?

Steve

[Bill Lewis]

What did you do for electrical, did you use a multi-wire circuit for your receptacle quads so each receptacle is on a different circuit?

You know I did something like that back when I built my garage. All the outlets were split in to two circuits. I also ran it in 12 ga, and pigtailed every outlet. Frankly it was more work that it was worth. I just found that I never loaded any single circuit enough to warrent doing that again. Much eaiser to wire up single circuits, and run more of them. Most of the big stuff (DC TS Compressor) is on individual 240V circuits.

[Chris Padilla]

Chris, looks great. Lots of workmanship here.

What did you do for electrical, did you use a multi-wire circuit for your receptacle quads so each receptacle is on a different circuit? How many circuits did you put in for 120v receptacles and how many receptacles per circuit?

Steve

Yeah, all my 120 V is multi-wired but get this...I needed to GFCI protect them and I had to run a second neutral because GFCI can't share the neutral. Good thing I had my wiring in conduit...well, most of it. Some stuff is not GFCI protected but most of the outlets are.

I'd have to count to see how many 120 V outlets per circuit but probably 12 on one side of the garage and 10 or so on the other side. Probably way overkill but oh well...you only do this once. I have 8 240 V 30 A outlets, too! :D

I did EVERYTHING in #10, too.

[Steve Aiken]

Chris said,
I did EVERYTHING in #10, too.

#10, not #12? Holy, that must have been FUN:eek:

Bill said,
All the outlets were split in to two circuits. I also ran it in 12 ga, and pigtailed every outlet. Frankly it was more work that it was worth. I just found that I never loaded any single circuit enough to warrent doing that again .

The wisdom of trial-and-error, eh! After all, it's pretty hard to run more than 1 energy-sucker tool at any given time in a one man/woman shop:D

Steve

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Wow! You ran #10 multi wire through conduit to each outlet!?!? You are a better man than I! :)

[Chris Padilla]

Dunno if I'm "better"...lazy, yes! I too lazy to purchase spools of #10 AND #12 so I opted for #10.

All my conduit was 3/4" flex so I had decent room. Lets just say I used plenty of pull lube, too! :)

[Bill Lewis]

Chris,

Was that stranded, or solid #10?
If I had to guess it would be THHN stranded. Much easier to work with than solid wire. I don't think it is even possible to wire solid #10 to standard switches and outlets, If so, it would be a real bear. I think that's what Jeff is referring to. #10 is pretty stiff stuff. It'll wear you out. If you did use solid wire, then you are the man!

[Chris Padilla]

I'm a semi-man...stranded baby...all the way! :D

I also used the backwired Leviton outlets...made life much easier although it was a semi-challenge threading the wire into the backwire hole.

[Chris Padilla]

Okay, latest updates. Not too much.

Got the compressor back up on the "ceiling" and out of the way. Did a lil' bit of plumbing to the main air-feed to make it a tad more accessible. I was thinking to move the on/off switch but that look like more of a headache than I wanted to deal with.

That is about it. I'm ssssllllloooowwwwlllllyyyyy trying to clean up the garage so that I can get to doing the floors up with some epoxy/paint/whatever stuff it is for garage floors.

[Jon Olson]

Sorry i wasn't available to lift it up with you...but I'm kinda short :)

Glad its up and out of the way.

Jon

[Chris Padilla]

Sorry i wasn't available to lift it up with you...but I'm kinda short :)

Glad its up and out of the way.

Jon

They have these neat things they call "ladders" that help with us short folk in the world... ;)

Yep, I'm happy it is outa the way and useful now! :)

[Don Baer]

Hey Chris;
Now you can use the compressor drain as a shower too.

:D

[Bruce Page]

Chris, it looks like a lot of work & planning went into hanging the compressor up there, but aren’t you worried about earthquakes? I was living in So Cal (San Fernando Valley) in 1971 when the Sylmar quake hit and it shook things around pretty good. :eek:

[Chris Padilla]

Hey Chris;
Now you can use the compressor drain as a shower too.

:D

LOL! Good one, Don. Maybe as an emergency eye-wash, too? :D

I plan to cut-up a small piece of hose and put it right into the sink...we'll see how "everywhere" the water gets....

[Chris Padilla]

Chris, it looks like a lot of work & planning went into hanging the compressor up there, but aren’t you worried about earthquakes? I was living in So Cal (San Fernando Valley) in 1971 when the Sylmar quake hit and it shook things around pretty good. :eek:

Earthquakes? In the Bay Area?? :confused: ;) I'm going to strap it further in with some of those earthquake straps that are mandated for water heaters to keep them from tipping over. Otherwise, the compressor is pretty solid up there.

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Chris,

That is a neat, neat idea! I have been strugling with buying a compressor because I really don't have room for one. I may be copying that idea.

[Chris Padilla]

Chris,

That is a neat, neat idea! I have been strugling with buying a compressor because I really don't have room for one. I may be copying that idea.

Jeff, I'm just happy that I have a vaulted ceiling in the garage...my cyclone DC will be going in the opposite corner of the compressor although I plan to have it as free-standing as possible to mitigate sound transfer.

The platform is two pieces of 3/4" plywood laminated together and I used 5" 3/8" lag bolts (6) to secure the platform to that enormous beam.

The compressor was actually very difficult to get onto the platform because it rubs against the ceiling slightly. However, it is there to stay and I shudder ever having to take it down for repairs. Believe it or not, I can actually reach the air filter that is located on the very top of the compressor. The platform holds the weight of the compressor no problem but I added the chains and wil add water-heater EQ straps just to err on the side of caution.

[Ken Garlock]

Chris, it looks very nice. A good use of limited space :cool: Isn't it amazing what some pulleys and rope can do.

[Jim Becker]

Ya know Chris, you're going to be all tied up with marrying your daughter off before you get this thing done!! :D :D :D

(Looking good!)

[Bill Lewis]

Believe it or not, I can actually reach the air filter that is located on the very top of the compressor.Wow Chris, how TALL are you?!?;)

I can't tell from the pictures, but tell me you did use some flexible hose between the compressor and the galvanized pipe. If not, you WILL develope a leak somwhere in that pipe.

BTW, you never said HOW you got that compressor up there.


my cyclone DC will be going in the opposite corner of the compressor although I plan to have it as free-standing as possible to mitigate sound transfer. I think the compressor would actually have more sound transfer than a cyclone. Even though there is less of a mechanical connection with the compressor, the radiant noist level is higher. Check out some of the previous theads about vibration isolation used on cyclones.

[Joe Mioux]

Chris, you started this remodel project the same time I discovered SMC. I have truly enjoyed your garage "evolution" project.
It is really shaping up! Congrats
JOe