Stain alternative - Dye?

[Doug Hobkirk]

I've only refinished by 1) sanding to 320, 2) staining with Minwax or other oil-based stains and then 3) adding protective coats of polyurethane or shellac. The challenge is to get the correct color - sometimes I need to mix stains to get the correct shade.

I've done 30 pieces of furniture (often just the top of a table) in the last 6 months and it has worked well 28 times. In the two failures, some areas became very dark. In the first case the result was splotchy. In the second case (today's case) the result is more wide-spread (see pictures).

This case: I believe the wood is maple and it's probably 70-100 years old. The drawer front has much more figure than the rest of the carcase or was originally present on the top. The grain pattern on the top seemed pretty helter-skelter and there were dark areas - I was quite sure that staining was not going to work - but I need to learn. I stained with Golden Oak oil stain. The results were that the dark areas became slightly darker and the top looks cruddy. The pictures are taken without flash or tripod (sorry for the blur).

I have re-sanded it which has removed some of the stain. Now I need to learn what I should do in a situation like this.

Should I add dye (or some other colorant) to a clear shellac or polyurethane finish and apply several layers? Will that mute the dark stains and the unattractive grain pattern?

PS - I refinish donated furniture that we deem should be sold to defray operational costs for Household Goods Recycling Ministry. This piece will either be sold or recycled to a needy family, depending on my results.

PPS - THANKS A LOT for reading this a THANK YOU VERY MUCH for all suggestions.

PICTURES: Entire top, corner detail (traces of attaching nails [I assumbe they're nails] are visible), and the front of the highly figured drawer (the original top was this color but not the figure).

[Neal Clayton]

yes spraying a colored shellac will 'even out' oddities such as this. shellac builds a film, the more film you build, the less grain you see, and the more uniform in color the wood will become.

you just have to find the happy medium between the color you want and grain visibility.

note that on darker colored shellacs, the 'splotchy' result that you get from poorly sealed wood before staining can still occur. not so much if you spray the shellac, moreso if you wipe/rub it. so your application method can vary the process. if you're going to wipe it, you still need to seal the wood with a clear sealer first.

[Howard Acheson]

First, let me say you have something quite old and unusual in the top. It appears to be maple and made out of one piece of wood. Boards like that are now longer readily availabe. It's a piece that might have had some value as an antique. Now that it has been refinished, it will have little or no value.

The dark discoloration you have in the top is quite normal for maple. Combine that with the fact that maple is a wood that has a great tendency to color unevenly when a pigment stain like Minwax is used. Most often, maple is first lightly colored with a dye stain, then seal coated with shellac and then the final color is applied with a gel stain. Then a clear coat is applied, This process minimizes the uneven coloring.

You have two choices at this point. One is to chemically strip the finish and start over. A second choice would be to get some gel stain and apply it carefully to try to even out the coloring and more closely match what you have.

What finish(s) are on the top now?

[Doug Hobkirk]

Neal -

Seal with Zinzer Seal-Coat and then stain? I think I've found it very difficult to get the stain to penetrate when I tried this (Dark Walnut stain [to match the legs] on mahogany [I think] ).

What do you recommend to color the shellac? Is the Zinzer Seal Coat (# cut) a good shellac to use?

Howie -

Excellent reply! The top was bad enough that it was unsellable (in our judgment). The top is sanded bare wood now.

Do you recommend any particular brand of dye (I've only used pigment stains)? Any particular gel stains? Do the gel stains conceal the grain more and more as I add more coats (I have never used a gel stain)?

I'm retired and hate to spend money on volunteer work but I need to try this and learn. There's a Rockler 20 miles away, a Woodcraft at 30 miles, and a very good professional painter store at 5 miles.

[Prashun Patel]

You can get Transtint concentrated dye at Woodcraft or Rockler. Rockler's got free shipping now, so you might not even need to drive. A 2oz bottle will last you a LONG time, so it's a good investment (IMHO).

If it were me, I wouldn't try to match the top to the sides too much. I'd use dyes to get it close. When the pieces are on different planes, the matching is less critical than when they're on the same side of the piece. I only say that bkz it's REALLY hard to get and KEEP it exact.

Second, if it were me, I wouldn't use a gel stain. I'd aim to highlight and accentuate the grain - not obscure it. I know it's discolored; that's the beauty!!!!

Last, I don't get the 3rd pic of the 'highly figured' drawer front. Is the bottom of that pic the drawer front? Bkz if yes, then what you're calling figure I'm seeing as checks and cracks.

To keep it simple, you might not need the shellac. Just dye and topcoat with an oil varnish, which will amberize it a little too.

[Howard Acheson]

Doug, only you know what you want to accomplish. It the intent is to restore the item to an almost "like new" condition, then I would strip, dye, shellac and use a wiping gel stain to color. If, however, all you want is a saleable item, then a wiping gel stain can get you there.

Gel stains are thick formulations of oil based pigment stains. All pigment stains will obscure the grain to some extent. You've already applied a pigment stain with the Minwax you've used. Evening out the coloring will not significantly obscure the grain unless you apply lots of stain and/or go through the process multiple times.

Do you have a clearcoat on there now? If not, apply a coat of shellac. Lightly scuff sand the shellac or existing clear coat. The point is that a gel stain applied over a clear seal coat can be wiped judiciously after application of the stain to leave varying amounts of color in areas of the top. Also, if you don't like how things are coming along a rag dampened with mineral spirits will remove the gel stain and you can start over. Once you have the top the way you want it, apply a couple of clear coats and you are done.

[Vito Baratta]

I agree with Shawn. Dyes have much smaller color pigments in them and will color much more evenly. I used dyes on my last project for the first time and I am never using any oil based stain ever again.

In my opinion, you should definitely use a dye.