Can I PEG wooden balls?

[tom martin]

A friend asked if I could turn some wooden balls for her brother. He would like to put them in his garden or something, anyway I remember seeing a Raffan video of Richard turning some so i gave it a shot.
I did 4 of them and thoroughly enjoyed it. It's a lot of fun. I had told her that being green wood they would crack and split over time and she was ok with that. I oiled three of them and put one in a paper bag about 2 weeks ago. The oiled ones have already got major cracks, but the one in the bag is doing ok.
I remember that there was a lot of Buzz about Polyethylene Glycol about ten years ago. I haven't heard alot about it since. Doing a search I found a site that sells Pentacryl which is PEG. They claim it reduces checking and cracking to less than 1 %.
I haven't seen any post on it here and was wondering why.It was a Canadian site that was selling this stuff-is it banned in the US?
The web site mentioned using it on bowls, but I would be a little concerned about it being food safe. I don't think it would be a problem if I coated my balls with it however. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
Anyone use this???????

[alex carey]

never heard of it, but just thought I'd say those are some nice looking balls...

[Don Carter]

Tom:
I am not sure if this is what you are looking for, but Woodcraft sells Pentacryl.
http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=129318&FamilyID=1793

Hope this helps.

All the best.

Don

[tom martin]

Thanks Don,
15% off and free shipping to boot!!!!!!!! I'm going to give it a shot. Has anyone else tried it??? They say you coat or submerge in the solution, let it drip dry, and allow it to dry for a few weeks (instead of a few months)

[alex carey]

is this the same as dna?

[tom martin]

Alex,
I think its more like antifreeze. Here is what Woodcraft says about it
Carving or turning green wood is certainly faster and easier than working with dry stock. But sometimes the extra work involved with slowly and carefully drying the wood to avoid checking hardly seems worth the trouble. Not any more! Pentacryl is a revolutionary new product that combats the negative effects of drying by displacing water and moisture in the wood fibers. Your wood will dry quicker and more evenly, and the Pentacryl residue even lubricates your tools as you work.

This non-toxic solution doesn't stain the wood or affect finishing in any manner.
The recommended method of application is total immersion, but the product can also be brushed or sprayed.
Compared to the traditional wax coating method, you'll find the drying time reduced by as much as 90% with Pentacryl.
On average, a green 6" x 6" x 2" bowl blank would absorb 2 ounces of solution, be fully saturated in a week, and, if turned thin, dry in about three weeks.

[Jeff Nicol]

Tom, I have 2 tubs of PEG that I would get rid off if you are interested. PEG came in a wax like cake and then you shaved it off and mixed it with water to create the solution. My Dad had bought it when he was working at the university here, a large oak tree that is the symbol of the school blew over in a storm, so he was contracted to saw it up and get some of the wood ready for others from the school to work into art and other useful pieces. So I now have the PEG and I don't plan to use it here are some pics of it. PM if you are interested. Here is a link to it at Rockler.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=686&cookietest=1

Jeff

P.S. Pentacryl is not PEG, it is a totally different thing.

[Joe Pfeifer]

I have heard soaking green wood in a solution of dish soap will prevent it from cracking. I have never tried it though because it is supposed to make the wood look waxy. Since these are going outside, the finish might not be a problem. Here's one article on it:

http://www.woodcraft.com/articles.aspx?articleid=313

[Bob Hallowell]

Tom, I normally don't say this to a guy but those are some really nice balls you got there! I don't think I could get them near that round good job!

as for your other question. I have know clue but being solid I would say they will crack no matter what.

Bob

[Bernie Weishapl]

ROFLOL Bob I was going to say the same thing but you said it for me. Great looking turnings Tom.:D:rolleyes:

[Don Carter]

Bob:
I tried to stay away from the subject of the pictures...ROTFLOL!;)

All the best.

Don

[Reed Gray]

Made me think of Howdy Doody. I made some out of cedar. Went to a fence contractor and asked him if he had any cut offs. He gave me a bunch of 4 x 4 and 6 x 6 pieces. Made some pagoda type things, light houses, hedge hogs, balls, etc, none of which sold so I gave a couple to the fence guy, and kept the rest. With cedar and red wood, no need to treat them, just let them weather, and the more weathered they get the better they look. The balls that you have will succumb to rot faster without treatment. You could try any 'outdoor finish'.

As far as the soap soak, which I do a lot, it does nothing to prevent cracks, and doesn't do anything to change the look of the wood, unless you have been soaking a lot of black walnut, then put in a piece of soft maple or sycamore. It does make things a lot easier to sand out.

robo hippy

[Kurt Johansson]

I have been using PEG regulary for the last twenty years or so. It is not the same as antifreese which is highly toxic.
Most of us have eaten PEG as it is used in medical products, it is food safe.
I have been using it for bowls and balls, the bowls I usually soak for about a month after they have been rough turned, bowls need a much longer soaking time as they are solid so I usually soak them for about three months, after soaking they can be dried quite fast with no cracking.
Please note that there are several different varietes of PEG depending on, I beleive, molecular weight. PEG labeled lower than 1000 is liquid and should not be used as it never dries. Personally I use PEG 1500 which has worked for me. Higher PEG numbers need a longer soaking time.
Sorry for my English, but I have been studying English for only four years,
1953 to 1957.
Regards to all
Kurt Johansson in Sweden

[Dick Strauss]

Kurt,
Thanks for the information! I have wondered about the varieties of PEG I see advertised.

Your English is fine. In fact, it is better than many native speakers here.

Take care,
Dick

[Greg Ketell]

Reading a bunch of responses from Google, PEG and pentacryl are not the same thing. PEG is polyethylene glycol. Here's a quote I found: How does it work? "While PEG works by plugging up wood cells," Dale explained to me, "Pentacryl coats the cell walls of green wood to keep them from shrinking or collapsing during drying."

The people who didn't like pentacryl (or PEG) didn't like the cost or the mess or the "plastic" look it gave the wood. And some said it didn't penetrate well enough into dense woods (especially mentioned was burls).

Just do a search on "pentacryl peg" and you will get tons of information. But like every thing else in the world, you will find posts from people who love it and from people who hate it.

Good Luck. Sorry I don't have any first hand info to give.

[tom martin]

Thanks for all of the information. I followed Greg's suggestion for a search and spent the last hour reading how turners around the world deal with this problem. I am going to try a few things
1. I will anchor seal a couple first and allow them to dry over the next year or so. I'm not too concerned about marketing these as they could always be cut in half and returned for bowls.
2. I am going to get some pentacryl and soak a few overnight. It is pricey, but for really spectacular wood it may be worth it.
3 The ball in the paper bag is drying fairly well. I'm going to leave it there and monitor it for a while. This is the most cost effective method if your not in a hurry (and you have the storage space)
4. I'm going to talk to my good neighbor Ken and ask if I can harvest some of the cedar that he has.The trees have been cut for a couple of years, and I remember seeing some large solid logs . I usually don't turn soft wood but for garden balls it sure seems like a good fit.
5. I would like to take Jeff up on his excellent offer for PEG. From what I read it seems like the one major drawback is the possibility of the Peg leaching out of the finished piece. In this application it wouldn't be a big deal.
Again thanks to all. It never ceases to amaze me how knowledgeable this community is and how willing everyone is to share. Hopefully I can repay this generosity with the results I see over the next year or so!
Tom

[Kurt Johansson]

Peg will be leaking or seeping trough finishes if you use PEG with a number under 1500. Especially in a hot and humid environment.
I have never experienced any plastic look or waxy surfaces during my years using PEG, but please note that soft woods need a shorter soaking time.
Once upon a time there was a book"Working green wood with PEG"
by Patric Spielman, it can be found on Amazon.
Kurt Johansson Sweden

[jim carter]

kurt,
thanks for the info. i too am a swede. my family name is amundsen.

[jim carter]

i meant amundson. i forgot the spelling

[Kirk Miller]

I am new to this woodturning game so forgive me if I am mis-speak. Polycryl and Pentacryl are both used to stabilize wood. For very soft wood, such as spalted types it is reccomended to treat with Polycryl before Pentacryl. I have both and am experimenting with them right now. I have used pentacryl on some spalted birch. It made a noticable difference. That being said it also made a noticable difference when it came time to sand. I had a hard time getting all the sanding marks out. When I got to the finer sanding the sand paper seemed to clog up much worse than normal. I have a very soft piece of redwood I am experimenting with right now. I will try to remember to post the results when I am through

Kirk