Difference between bowl tools and spindle tools?

[Rick Cicciarelli]

Seems like the only difference is in the flute width between a spindle gouge and a bowl gouge. Am I missing something? Is there really that big of a difference? Why?

[Gordon Seto]

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o83/gbseto/five-gouges.jpg
(Cover photo from http://www.thompsonlathetools.com/ )
The difference is not the width of the flute, it is the curvature and the depth of the flute; they are all milled from round tool steel. From left: V bowl gouge, U bowl gouge, Spindle Gouge, Detail Gouge & Shallow Detail Gouge.
On the exterior of the bowl, both types of gouges can be used except the bowl gouge is more versatile with the side grind. With various tool grinds, this is going to be complicated. On the interior of the bowl, spindle gouge can only access to shallow & gentle curve.
Don't let the name of the gouge confuse you. You can see from the Bob Rosand and Jimmy Clewes video, they demonstrated using a bowl gouge on spindle work. (Bob uses BG as a roughing gouge; Jimmy uses BG in long stem goblet). With BG usually the limitation is accessibility.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Gordon gave you some good info and one thing I will add is Al Stirt at one of his demo's I attended said it has to do with the angle of the grind. He said I would never use a spindle gouge or spindle roughing gouge inside a bowl unless you want a major accident. He said you can use a bowl gouge on a spindle but if you want to do detail work the angle of the grind on a spindle gouge plus the shallower flute lets you do much finer detail work.

[Dean Thomas]

I was taught that it is primarily the angle of the grind, but that the depth of the flute certainly plays a large part.

Think about bowls with pretty much stand up walls. Point your bevel down that wall and then make the curve at the bottom. With a typical spindle gouge, you could make the wall cut just fine. Once you try to make the curve, however, you run the risk of having no bevel in contact with the wood and all that implies from bad cut to lack of control.

Steep bevel means that you can have a fairly tight turning radius. Short steel thickness means that you have a better chance of keeping the bevel in contact with the wood.

Hope it helps.

[Jim Becker]

There is also a design difference with some of the tools. Bowl gouges are pretty much universally round stock all the way into the handle...they can, well...handle...a lot of stress. Many spindle tools have a "tang", particularly spindle roughing gouges, that inserts in to the handle and these tools cannot take a lot of stress. Safety is very much at issue with their improper use.

[Gordon Seto]

The right tool is just the first step. We still need to know how to use each of them safely and efficiently. An airplane without pilot is useless.

[Dean Thomas]

... Many spindle tools have a "tang", particularly spindle roughing gouges, that inserts in to the handle and these tools cannot take a lot of stress.
Really?

The only spindle tools that I've seen with tangs are the roughing gouge and skews (which normally don't qualify as gouges :cool: ).

I've handles 3/4" and 1" gouges that were ALL round stock with HUGE handles on them, bored with round into the handle. I do know that P&N tools (Patience & Nicholson from Australia, I believe) sell tools without handles that are really designed to fit into handles made by others so they come with "shanks" that are really just the tool round necked down to a specific diameter to fit the "pro" handles. Hope that helps.

[Gordon Seto]

The only spindle tools that I've seen with tangs are the roughing gouge and skews (which normally don't qualify as gouges :cool: ).

.

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=IT-CONG.XX&Category_Code=WIS
The Continental Gouge

[Doug Thompson]

Bowl gouges need a deep flute so when it's cuts the force from turning is driven into the tool rest, so the deep flute allows angles that cut when the wood is driven from the top down. Spindle tools (because of the shallow flute) cut when the wood is driven into the nose of the tool.

When a tool is sharpened we follow the flute shape so if you want a bowl gouge with a small nose radius you buy a V shape tool, if you want a large nose radius buy a U shape flute. You can't sharpen a V shape flute to a large nose radius or a U shape to a small nose radius because you loose your cutting angles... this is why we have different flute shapes. Spindle gouges work the same way, the wide flute on a spindle gouge is sharpened with a large nose radius and the detail gouge to a smaller radius because the flute is narrow.

We use a 60 angle on a bowl gouge because it has more meat behind the cutting edge to take the stesses for example from roughing a bowl. The spindle gouge takes lighter cuts and doesn't remove as much material so a 40 degree angle works fine.

This can get real deep and the are more exceptions than rules but this is the basic idea.