Sawstop professional cabinetmaker's saw

[steve brownell]

Just heard that SawStop is consumer testing their soon-to-be-released professional cabinet makers saw with a few end users. The first production run saws will be shipping to folks who will report back on usage of the saw, totaling at least 10 hrs per week through April. Saws will ship to them the 2nd or 3rd week of March, with a 10% discount.

Retail pricing for the 36" & 52" set up will be between $2800-3000 (approx) 220V operation, Spring '09 availability.

I'm passing on the trial and discount, as I want to see it and use it prior to committing. Just wanted to pass the info along in case anyone was wondering.

[Ray Dockrey]

What is the difference between this and the cabinet saws they produce now. The price range's seem the same.

[Tim Malyszko]

From Popular Woodworking:


SawStop Unveils a Less Expensive Cabinet Saw (http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/SawStop+Unveils+A+Less+Expensive+Cabinet+Saw.aspx)

http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/content/binary/SawStopPCS.jpg
In a move that will surely tighten the competition in the table saw market, SawStop (http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/ct.ashx?id=9860895a-7bb2-41a5-9cae-d8f841621a61&url=http%3a%2f%2fsawstop.com%2f) announced plans to introduce a less expensive version of its cabinet saw that will use the same blade-stopping technology on its industrial cabinet saw and contractor saw.

The SawStop Professional Cabinet Saw is expected to cost somewhere between $2,500 to $2,800 (without accessories) and should be available during the spring of 2009, company officials said. The company’s industrial cabinet saw costs between $2,799 and $3,899, though after Oct. 1, the price will increase to a range of $3,099 to $3,899.

The lower-priced SawStop cabinet saw will compete with other premium saws, such as the new domestically made Delta Unisaw and the Powermatic PM2000, which starts at about $2,500. Both of those saws have upgraded guards, but they do not include the blade-stopping technology of the SawStop.

SawStop showed a pre-production model of its Professional Cabinet Saw at the International Woodworking Fair in Atlanta and pointed out the changes the company made to reduce the price. The new saw uses different blade-elevation controls and does not include the nice gas shock on the industrial-level saw, which assists the user in raising the blade.

Also, there is less cast iron in the trunnion assembly, the saw has a smaller tabletop and it will be available with a 3 horsepower single-phase motor only.

The Professional Cabinet Saw includes a nice Formica-faced T-square fence system, plus all the enhanced guards and blade-stopping technology found on its other saws. The saw will weigh between 515 and 540 pounds and will be available with 52”- or 36”-long fence rails.

[steve brownell]

What is the difference between this and the cabinet saws they produce now. The price range's seem the same.


you know, i'm asking myself the same question. it would have been great if it was a mid-range price, but it is close to the industrial saw (price-wise)

[Paul Ryan]

I guess they have a hybid comming out shortly after this professional model. I am intrigued by this professional model. I was starting to contimplate spending 5k on a new version. After the saw, the fence, the mobile base, an extra cartrige, and a dado cartrige, + sales tax it came up to just short of $4800. I am interested to see what the professional version will be like and cost. At first Gass said under $2500 now I hear under 3k including fence and shipping. But at 3K plus the acc. I come up with $3682. Thats about $1100 less. A decent savings but how much lighter duty is the saw?

[John Thompson]

I went over the saw pretty well one morning at IWF. OK.. but not near as beefy as the current as mentioned. The trunnions are much smalller and it does not have the gas shocks. No better.. no worse than anythig else in that price range IMO from what I saw.

Sarge..

[Vic Damone]

No better.. no worse than anythig else in that price range IMO from what I saw.

Sarge..

Ah come on, it certainly does one thing better than any other in that price range.

[Mike Heidrick]

The price of this newer cheaper saw includes the table and fence which is $579 additional on the industrial version according to sawstop reps at IWF. Above it says without accessories. Who knows wht it will be.

[John Thompson]

Ah come on, it certainly does one thing better than any other in that price range.

I probably should have been clearer, Vic. I don't come up from my shop until late and the post was in haste around bed-time. I was simply referring to the components of the saw which are heavily down-sized from the standard Saw-stop.. hence the price.

The blade break you refer to as the "one thing".. I felt would be obvious to those that value a blade brake. I personally won't pay the extra to get a blade brake. The current Saw-stop is an excellent saw without a blade brake as it is built very well and should be for the price point.

"I" just won't pay the extra it would take currently to have a blade break. My TS cost $1800 new but it doesn't have a blade break or the gas shock raising system which makes humping a 5 HP motor up and down a lot easier. And the gas IMO will absorb some of the impact when the "thingy" trips as it's a pretty major impact IMO from seeing it actually do it on film. Nor does my saw have a riving knife.

But.. tolerance wise my saw is a tight as the SS on arbor run-put.. miter slot alignment.. table top flatness and the machining of the components.. It has slightly larger trunnions.. I provide my own safety features which are used daily without exceptions.

Bottom line.. I think the new SS will be well recieved if.. if there is a major difference in the price between it and the current SS if your main concern is a blade brake and that is the main concern for many.

Sarge..

[M. A. Espinoza]

Curious, what you heard about the hybrid? I got the feeling this new model is the "hybrid".

I originally also heard around 2500 for the new model which seemed OK.

Just have to wait and see I suppose.



I guess they have a hybid comming out shortly after this professional model. I am intrigued by this professional model. I was starting to contimplate spending 5k on a new version. After the saw, the fence, the mobile base, an extra cartrige, and a dado cartrige, + sales tax it came up to just short of $4800. I am interested to see what the professional version will be like and cost. At first Gass said under $2500 now I hear under 3k including fence and shipping. But at 3K plus the acc. I come up with $3682. Thats about $1100 less. A decent savings but how much lighter duty is the saw?

[Brian Frances]

I think it will definitely help to capture more of the hobbyist market share now! Does anyone know if it will have the riving knife or similar dust collection? At that price point I would consider it over other good saws on the market today! This is going to put a serious dent into the other TS companies!

I wonder if the price includes the lovely $450 delivery charge that SS charges everyone. I guess since it has 4 wheels and a motor, SS can charge close to the same delivery charge as Honda!
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Mark Roderick]

I just can't understand why anyone would buy a Sawstop. The huge danger with table saws isn't cutting yourself on the blade, but kickback. So you get rid of only, say, 20% of the real danger while paying a big premium to a company with no history. It seems to me a marketing trick, convincing people that the big bad spinning blade is a huge hazard (the natural reaction of the layperson) while ignoring the real danger.

It's like paying a premium for 256-bit encryption for online credit card transactions while freely giving your credit card to gas station attendants. Sort of.

[William OConnell]

I just can't understand why anyone would buy a Sawstop. The huge danger with table saws isn't cutting yourself on the blade, but kickback. So you get rid of only, say, 20% of the real danger while paying a big premium to a company with no history. It seems to me a marketing trick, convincing people that the big bad spinning blade is a huge hazard (the natural reaction of the layperson) while ignoring the real danger.

It's like paying a premium for 256-bit encryption for online credit card transactions while freely giving your credit card to gas station attendants. Sort of.

Sorry I'll respectfully wholeheartedly disagree.
Kickbback is not nearly as life altering as the big bad spinning blade. One second later your mangled for life. Getting cut on the spinning blade IS definately the huge danger, just ask some of the highly talented and thoroughly experienced pros here, two of which I know have had this horrifically traumatic experience alter there lives.
Ive survived kickacks . I only consider myself lucky actually to have not let my mind be wandering and make that one small movement. I work wood for a living for the last 27 years. Ive had the unfortunate experience of seeing what that spinning blade can do to people I care about. Its not always a clean cut, and kickack by the way, is a cause for the hand to hit that blade, which is in fact the real danger.

[Ron Bott]

I
I provide my own safety features which are used daily without exceptions.
Sarge..

Unfortunately this doesn't preclude you from an accident. The Sawstop is not intended as a replacement for safe shop practices, it provides an extra insurance policy in case of an accident that might occur despite using safe practices.


I just can't understand why anyone would buy a Sawstop.

Actually I can't understand why anyone with the means to do so wouldn't buy one. To each their own I guess.


Does anyone know if it will have the riving knife or similar dust collection?

I recently inquired to Sawstop about the "professional model" and was told that it will have a riving knife and what was described to me as "over and under the table dust collection that will be 99% efficient and a really big hit".


Curious, what you heard about the hybrid? I got the feeling this new model is the "hybrid".

They told me that if the "professional" models which are being tested now do OK, they will be available around June. There will then be a hybrid at the end of 2009 that will be identical to the "professional" cabinet saw with the exception of a 1 3/4 HP 110v motor and a less expensive aluminum fence for "around $500 less".

[Paul Ryan]

I wonder if the price includes the lovely $450 delivery charge that SS charges everyone. I guess since it has 4 wheels and a motor, SS can charge close to the same delivery charge as Honda!
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

From what I understand the 3k includes the fence and the shipping charge. The lovely acc. that they talk about would be mobile base and dado cartrige. I wonder if this saw will accept a 6" dado. That is what I have and I really don't want to shell out the $$ for an 8" since I dont use a dado that often.

[John Thompson]

[quote=Ron Bott;1066295]Unfortunately this doesn't preclude you from an accident. The Sawstop is not intended as a replacement for safe shop practices, it provides an extra insurance policy in case of an accident that might occur despite using safe practices.


I am aware that it doesn't preclure me from an accident and it does not take the place of safety practice. I simply stated that I am not interested for the simple reason I cannot afford the difference in price from a new or used TS and... have no personal intention of not using the one I have currently or have had and used for 37 years without the brake.

The brake is a good feature but.. I often wonder just how many think it and having a riving knife will preclude you from an accident? That is the impression I get often from some of the comments. I had a riving knife on a TS 8 years ago when very few in the U.S, knew what they were.

A blade stop cannot stop kick-back any more than a standard TS.. nor can a riving knife.. but many appear to have the attitude of if you have those you are "good to go". I would ask.. where is the support for stock left of blade.. crown guard.. short fence.. friction support talbes..etc. as all those contribute to countering kick-back but there is still no gaurantee.

I run all those things on my TS and I know well that I am not precluded. The only way I would be precluded would be to add a Power feed and IMO that is even a better option than a blade brake. And having one on a TS does not preclude you from an accident on a jointer.. planer.. BS.. miter saw.. etc. etc..

Not having one is just my choice. If someone wants and can afford one it is there choice. If you give me one for free.. I will gladly accept.. say thank you and use it just as I do all the other things I just mentioned as I am also aware of the individual importance of all them used in unison. :)

Have a good day...

Sarge..

[george wilson]

The SawStop can only use 10" blades,and 8" dado,for which you must also buy the special dado brake pad. I got one for work before retiring. My replacement was a new woodworker. Personally,unless I also had another saw available to take my special blades,like my 6" .020 kerf guitar fret blade,and some others,I'd stay with my regular table saw. Unless you readjust the SawStop brake,it will not start when you use another 10" blade,except for the blade that came with it. Why? The saw is very particular about the blade diameter. A 10" Forrest blade would not start,because IIRC,the Forrest blade was 9 15/16" diameter,and did not sit close enough to the brake.

The other brake must be installed and adjusted when you use the dado.

Never cut mirror plexiglass. It will fire the brake unless maybe you use rubber gloves. Your body capacitance (sp?) will be transferred to the blade. Tiny metal particles left by cutting anything metallic may trigger the brake.

I have a friend who has had several brakes and blades get ruined for no apparent reason. That's $185.00 a pop,approx.with a $100.00 blade. I think this has happened due to metal dust left from cutting mirror plexi.He has an architectural model shop.

I'd like it better when they come up with a system that isn't as fussy as the present one. And NO,you still cannot get the saw to start even with the brake turned OFF unless all the usual criteria,like blade diameter adjustments,have been made. I really can't see why the system still has to be satisfied even if it is turned off. I'd like it a lot better if it could be used with special blades with the system off.

[mreza Salav]

A blade stop cannot stop kick-back any more than a standard TS..


That is true, and the intention of the brake is not to prevent kickback



nor can a riving knife..
This is just plain wrong, very wrong. A riving knife does *reduce* the risk of kick back *significantly*.


but many appear to have the attitude of if you have those you are "good to go".
Nobody says these features reduce the risk of injury to zero but they reduce its severity and it's probability of happening significantly.
It's like "an air bag on a car reduces the chance of serious injury in an accident". Now you may say I'm super careful in driving and I'll never have an accident. So I don't see any point of paying extra for a car that has an airbag.




Not having one is just my choice. If someone wants and can afford one it is there choice. If you give me one for free.. I will gladly accept.. say thank you and use it just as I do all the other things I just mentioned as I am also aware of the individual importance of all them used in unison. :)

Have a good day...

Sarge..Sure you are free to make your choice and so are the others. Just wanted to express my opinion about some of the statements you made here.

[Dell Moore]

I wish this technology was standard. I have never understood with the major TS makers did not invest in this technology. Having had one close call, and heard tooo many horror stories about sliced off fingers, I can't see why someone would not want one of this saws. Being on the shorter side, I'm always worrying when I reach across the saw to push a piece of wood clear.

I'm going to have to think long and hard on this one....

[John Thompson]

That is true, and the intention of the brake is not to prevent kickback

This is just plain wrong, very wrong. A riving knife does *reduce* the risk of kick back *significantly*.

Nobody says these features reduce the risk of injury to zero but they reduce its severity and it's probability of happening significantly.
It's like "an air bag on a car reduces the chance of serious injury in an accident". Now you may say I'm super careful in driving and I'll never have an accident. So I don't see any point of paying extra for a car that has an airbag.

Sure you are free to make your choice and so are the others. Just wanted to express my opinion about some of the statements you made here.

Mreza.. I did not under any circumstance say that a riving knife cannot help "reduce" kick-back". What I said is that it cannot prevent it 100 %. Read carefully where I said it is just one component that helps reduce Kick-back. I had a riving knife on one of my TS for 7 year and I assure you it cannot completely stop a kick-back from happening.

I will add that the main differnce in a riving knife (and don't read that as only difference) is the riving knife is positioned closer to the rear of blade than a splitter closing the gap the stock has to travel before it enters the riving knife. But.. there is still a gap left with a riving knife which allows a window of opportunity for an extreme piece of reaction wood to hit a long fence and rebound back into the dangerous rear teeth.

Use of the short fence could eliminate reaction wood from spreading.. hitting the fence and rebounding as it leaves a free zone after the stock has been severed on the blade. But.. how many will add a short fence?

A riving knife will not stop a piece of stock riding up the blade after kickback from launching... unless you add some type of crown gaurd. How many have a crown gaurd?

I said that I get the impression on occassion from some comments that you are safe by having a riving knife and blade brake. I did not say that every swinging tree limb is under that impression.. just from some comments that give that impression?

So.. please read carefully what I say and if you have any questions... feel free to ask as I will be happy to clarify and give you the exact reason I said it to begin with.

I thought I clearly pointed out that I can't afford to make a swithch but that won't stop me from using my current TS which has added safety features that I do use without fail. So.. that is the main reason for my choice. But.. maybe that wasn't clear to you either.

Regards...

Sarge..

[mreza Salav]

Sarge, my mistake. I misread that part regarding riving knife.
What you said is correct, it reduces the chance of kick back but it doesn't eliminate entirely.

I too don't have a sawstop but still use my table saw and try to take every precaution needed. All those precautions should be taken *even when using a SS*. The only difference (and it's a big difference!) if something goes wrong (for whatever reason), there is a next layer of protection to save limbs.
I'll upgrade to a SS eventually. Just like feather boards, riving knife, stop block, etc. the brake is a device to reduce the risk of injury (or its impact).
It has a high price but so is the price we put on our limbs. So if I can afford it and I want to stay in this hobby for the long run, I better do it than be sorry after an accident.

[John Thompson]

Sarge, my mistake. I misread that part regarding riving knife.
What you said is correct, it reduces the chance of kick back but it doesn't eliminate entirely.

I too don't have a sawstop but still use my table saw and try to take every precaution needed. All those precautions should be taken *even when using a SS*. The only difference (and it's a big difference!) if something goes wrong (for whatever reason), there is a next layer of protection to save limbs.
I'll upgrade to a SS eventually. Just like feather boards, riving knife, stop block, etc. the brake is a device to reduce the risk of injury (or its impact).
It has a high price but so is the price we put on our limbs. So if I can afford it and I want to stay in this hobby for the long run, I better do it than be sorry after an accident.

Thanks for taking the time to read the whole thing Mreza, as we all seem to be guilty on occasion of spot picking a sentence.. etc.. that in itself might mean one thing if used in contest with the rest of a paragraph but... appear to be a total different animal used as a stand alone statement.

And if you are going to stay with this and you can afford to upgrade.. that would be great. I have a brand new 5 HP and it will probably be the last saw I own. I retired early and have to work within a budget in these economically trying times. So... I am stuck with what I have but I refuse to get "stuck with a blade tip"... so I have to work smart.. alert and use every trick I have learned in 37 years on safety. :)

Regards...

Sarge..

[mreza Salav]

Sarge, I'm 32 and if life permits expect to do this hobby for many years.
Besides, I currently have a contractor saw. I can get by with this; have had a few chances to upgrade to a decent unisaw and could afford doing it but decided to hold on so that I do only one upgrade (and that will be to a SS).

[John Thompson]

Sarge, I'm 32 and if life permits expect to do this hobby for many years.
Besides, I currently have a contractor saw. I can get by with this; have had a few chances to upgrade to a decent unisaw and could afford doing it but decided to hold on so that I do only one upgrade (and that will be to a SS).

If you want it badly.. you are wise to not compromise. I always wanted a Power-matic floor mortiser @ $1K but.. I could just not justify that amount even though I cut tons of mortises but am not commercial. I cut them by hand for years.. then a bench-top until.. Curt Wilke called me to offer the last Bridgewood Industrial he had (same a Grizzly for $2195) for $800. I jumped and the dream got realized in this case.

I have cut around 1000 mortises on it since as I did 40 just last week and don't regret it at that price as I can sell the monster to a door shop for more as they have already ask. An investment really.

So.. wait on what you want (SS) and in the meantime... follow all safety rules.. use all safety devices.. don't cut when tired or thinking about things other than concentration on the cut and keep the lane clear when the blade is spinning.. the SS will come with patience as you seem to be exhibiting.

Regards...

Sarge..

[Neal Clayton]

I wish this technology was standard. I have never understood with the major TS makers did not invest in this technology. Having had one close call, and heard tooo many horror stories about sliced off fingers, I can't see why someone would not want one of this saws. Being on the shorter side, I'm always worrying when I reach across the saw to push a piece of wood clear.

I'm going to have to think long and hard on this one....

because the inventor tried to brow beat them into it. he pitched it to them, with a huge license fee, when they refused, he ran to the CSPC to try and force them to buy his invention, at a price of almost 10% of the gross wholesale price of any table saw.

anyways, as others have stated the danger on a table saw is from flying boards, not the flying blade. do riving knife makers get 10% of the wholesale price of a new saw? doubt it. the price the owner is asking isn't worth it, that's why it didn't sell.

[Chris Padilla]

Is it going to be easy to tell an "original" SS from the "pro" SS now??

[Paul Ryan]

Chris the 2 big differences I can see are the cabinet access door is on the right with the industrial saw, and is on the left with the pro saw. And I guess the table on the new pro saw is 27" deep, instead of the 30" on the industrial saw. And due to the access door being on the other side the bevel wheel has been moved to the right as well.

I can't understand why some people are so upset with Steve Gass over the whole legislation thing. WHO CARES! It is by far a safer saw than anything out there period! Yes proper techniques and accessories will make your saw safer but the blade brake is by far and away the safest to prevent your self from getting cut. Kick back still cannot be stoped entirely but the chance of loosing fingers or worse with kick back is pretty nill. Sarge, makes the most sense, from what I understand from his posts is that he would love to have a SS but from what they cost it isn't with in his means due to retirement (Sarge I hope I didn't put words in your mouth). But I hear other people say, "I wont buy one because Steve Gass tried to have it mandated." Take about a lame excuse, from what I here in that statement is, "I am too good I will never get hurt on a table saw." I dont fault him for tring to have it mandated, I would have done the same thing to help my business grow, but it didn't work. Personally I wish every new table saw designed had to have some sort blade brake technology. From what Gass has said the technology isn't what makes his saws so expensive, it is that fact that he has a small company and maufacturing cost are higher because of his lower volume. And I have never heard anyone say that saw stops are pieces of junk. It seems to be whether it is a cabinet saw or a contractor saw it is one of the best in that segment, and it has a safty feature that others don't.

[Greg Cuetara]

It seems as though the price point could be right on. The problem I have right now is that the contractors saw was supposed to be $700, which would have been a great price point, and when they finally released it it ended up being around $1,600 or $1,700. If their $2,500 estimate right now jumps to $3,500 I think they will miss their target audience. If they could hit the right around $2,000 I think they would sell a lot more saws.

I do agree with Paul that if you won't buy a SS just because of what the company or their president has done you are missing out on a great product. If you don't think you need it you don't have to buy it. I think I have heard this elsewhere on the forum. The SS break is similar to an airbag in the car. It is there and you hope by driving safe you will never need to use the airbag but it is there in case of an accident. The SS break does not take away common sense.

Greg

[John Thompson]

I will add something to Paul's defense of the guy trying to sell the technology. I won't get involed in the shoud he or shouldn't he as I am not in the market so it's really irrelevant to me but...

Perhaps he asked to much for it? I don't know. Perhaps he should have ask for a smaller amount but get royalities on every unit sold as records or now DVD's? I don't know but this was new technology at the time and he should have realized not fine tuned at that point.

He was dealing with long time U.S. manufacturers who at that time hadn't even recieved a mandate on adding riving knives and had no intentions of doing so. It cost to re-engineer to change the guts to recieve one so why should they? They had been selling saws with a splitter and a cheap plastic gaurd for 70 years. We bought them and continued to buy them so why upgrade when the public accepted what you already had up to that point.

Riving knives were not a priority at that time.. much less some new technology that was unproven and the asking price was high from what I hear. Why open up another can of worms if the buying public accepted what had been standard for many years with no known loss of sales.

So... perhaps the blame lies partly on the inventor and partly on the manufacturer for not having a close look and counter-offering. I think it was and is a very complicated and risky deal for them at that time but things are rather clear now. People want a rivng knife for the most part and they seem to want a blade break.

But.. who shoulders the original blame for the way things worked out? I don't think that question can be truly answered then or now. The bottom line is you will or won't pay the asking price as matters currently stand and that is a personal decision at this point. Just my opinion of course.

Sarge..

[Greg Pavlov]

......So... perhaps the blame lies partly on the inventor and partly on the manufacturer for not having a close look and counter-offering. I think it was and is a very complicated and risky deal for them at that time but things are rather clear now. People want a rivng knife for the most part and they seem to want a blade break.

But.. who shoulders the original blame for the way things worked out? I don't think that question can be truly answered then or now. .........Sarge..
No, I don't think that the question can truly be answered then or now, nor have I seen any real evidence that the inventor set the price as high as a few of the manufacturers have claimed since then. And if I were to make a rule not to buy anything from a company that tried to get legislation passed to give it an advantage, there wouldn't be much that I could buy from much of anybody: it's a time-honored tradition in the US, going back to at least the first part of the 19th century when canal companies pushed through legislation that tried to cripple the new railroad industry.

[Randal Stevenson]

I will add something to Paul's defense of the guy trying to sell the technology. I won't get involed in the shoud he or shouldn't he as I am not in the market so it's really irrelevant to me but...

Perhaps he asked to much for it? I don't know. Perhaps he should have ask for a smaller amount but get royalities on every unit sold as records or now DVD's? I don't know but this was new technology at the time and he should have realized not fine tuned at that point.

He was dealing with long time U.S. manufacturers who at that time hadn't even recieved a mandate on adding riving knives and had no intentions of doing so. It cost to re-engineer to change the guts to recieve one so why should they? They had been selling saws with a splitter and a cheap plastic gaurd for 70 years. We bought them and continued to buy them so why upgrade when the public accepted what you already had up to that point.

Riving knives were not a priority at that time.. much less some new technology that was unproven and the asking price was high from what I hear. Why open up another can of worms if the buying public accepted what had been standard for many years with no known loss of sales.

So... perhaps the blame lies partly on the inventor and partly on the manufacturer for not having a close look and counter-offering. I think it was and is a very complicated and risky deal for them at that time but things are rather clear now. People want a rivng knife for the most part and they seem to want a blade break.

But.. who shoulders the original blame for the way things worked out? I don't think that question can be truly answered then or now. The bottom line is you will or won't pay the asking price as matters currently stand and that is a personal decision at this point. Just my opinion of course.

Sarge..

There was a big hubub between Steve and Papa Grizz on another forum over what he asked. Suffice to say, they would have to agree to disagree on what they said.

Besides the new "untested" tech, something that was mentioned long time ago (maybe on the Sawstop website), was the response by the manufacturers own attorneys. If Joe blow can invent this in their garage, why hadn't they done this already, and why is xyz company not offering it on all their saws (initially they were looking at adding it to select saws, allegedly). This has come up on the web, in cases, since.

As for him trying to get it legislated, and/or people views on that, that is politics, and not an allowed discussion.

[Neal Clayton]

No, I don't think that the question can truly be answered then or now, nor have I seen any real evidence that the inventor set the price as high as a few of the manufacturers have claimed since then. And if I were to make a rule not to buy anything from a company that tried to get legislation passed to give it an advantage, there wouldn't be much that I could buy from much of anybody: it's a time-honored tradition in the US, going back to at least the first part of the 19th century when canal companies pushed through legislation that tried to cripple the new railroad industry.

and when the railroad companies got together with the oil companies we passed anti-trust laws.

just because people have shady practices doesn't mean we should embrace shady practices.

[Gregg Feldstone]

A SS dealer in Texas told me they are now mandatory in Tx school shops. The HS in my town was lucky enough to win a contractors SS in a state HS lottery. Have any other states mandated them in schools? If so, I would think that alone might cause other manufacturers to join the bandwagon.

I have a small question about my new 3hp cabinet SS.
Compared to my 3hp unisaw, the sawstop is MUCH quieter on startup and I feel almost no vibration. Because of this it "feels" like the unisaw had more power. The belt system is totally different and appears to have been more "direct" with the unisaw, ie three belts going directly from the motor to the arbor without any intermediate pulley. I know that cutting a 12/4 piece of hard maple or other hardwood will be the ultimate test, but I don't plan to do that until a project calls for it.....so.....HOW do you former unisaw users compare the power of the 3hp SS to your 3hp unisaw?
Do any of you wish you had spent the extra 300 clams for the 5hp motor?

[Rob Price]

getting back on topic, a bit, I've been emailing SS about this saw in particular.

$2559 gets me the saw, 52" rails, extension table, AND shipping- this is with the 10% discount the OP was talking about. Add a mobile base, Dado brake, dado insert, extra brake, and you're still sub $3K.

I'd say this is comparable to a new Uni or PM2000 range plus shipping.

So do I buy sight unseen based on the good reviews of the current saw and contractor saw, or wait until it's "field tested."

as far as the buisness practices, do we hate the airbag people for making those standard? do we hate bill gates for making windows standard? (well okay, maybe we do). I don't fault a guy for trying to make money on a good idea, that's called capitalism.

[Vic Damone]

This has all been very well explained by SawStop. Here's one example.

Wow! I have sort of a love-hate relationship with these long threads on SawStop. It is fun to read, but I don't get much done while doing it. Actually, this has been one of the more civil threads on SawStop so I think you are all to be commended for your general civility to each other. Anyway, I thank Ken for pointing it out to me and mentioning that some folks would like to hear from SawStop. Well, wish granted for better or worse.

As for the saw itself, I think pretty much everyone who has seen/used one has been happy and uniformly people seem to believe it is a significant step up relative to a Unisaw/PM 66. The saw is designed to withstand the braking loads without damage and includes a pivot joint, similar to the normal joint used to raise and lower tablesaw blades, to permit the retraction without damaging anything. The front of the arbor block (the end opposite the pivot joint) is secured with a strong spring detent type release to allow the retraction to occur. During normal use, the blade/trunnion assembly travels vertically on a pair of steel guide shafts, so the retraction is completely independent of the normal elevation control.

I know many folks have been sort of bent out of shape about the petition we filed. We would not have filed the petition if we did not believe it was the right thing to do. I talk pretty much every day with some woodworker who thought they were being safe and had an accident - often with life-changing consequences.

This doesn't have to happen (or at least only very, very rarely) anymore and, in my opinion, the only reason it continues is that the existing power tool manufacturers are not paying for the injuries that occur on their products and therefore have very little incentive to redesign and retool their products to incorporate something like SawStop. Delta, for instance, told me that they weren't interested in the technology prior to any discussion of a royalty and only the most superficial discussion of what it might cost to implement. If saw manufacturers had to pay the cost of the accidents that occur on their products, they would be charging 10 times as much and would very quickly adopt SawStop or something like it. At present, it is the unfortunate woodworker, and you and I (through insurance premiums) that have to bear this cost.

In view of what I see as the callous disregard of the saw manufacturers for the safety of their customers and their unwillingness to do something on their own to prevent injuries, I believe that the petition we filed was the right thing to do to force the manufacturers to change. I believe it is very clearly justified on the merits if you look at the benefits to society if it is granted.

As I'm sure some of you are thinking, we at SawStop also believe that we stand to gain financially if the petition were to be granted, but believe it or not, that wasn't the primary motivating factor. We have always believed that the petition didn't have much chance of actually being granted given our tiny political clout and the substantial political clout of the power tool industry. However, I believe it was simply the right thing to do to try and stem the flood of devastating injuries that occur every day to woodworkers around the country.

By the way, yesterday we received what is our third call from a customer who was very glad they had SawStop on their saw when someone accidentally made contact with the blade - in this case a female student in a college woodshop class. I can't tell you how satisfying it is to know that we have already prevented three potentially very serious injuries and that is just the beginning.

Steve Gass, President
SawStop, LLC

#2
04-26-2005, 7:06 PM

[Don Bullock]

Vic, thanks for the quote.

I certainly don't regret purchasing my SawStop.

[Gregg Feldstone]

Hey I know we are on a tangent, but that's what makes the Creek fun.....so....would someone please look at the 2nd to last post and tell me what you think? Thanks

[Paul Ryan]

Gregg,

I'll add my quick 2 cents. You can read my position from some of the other posts. But I think it is a real disgrace that here we are almost 5 years since the 1st sawstop. And still none of the other manufactures have come out with there own system. I dont know what to take from Steve's letter. How much is true how much is hog wash. I dont fault him for trying to make money everyone would do the same thing. But with the technology that is out there today to make all sorts of things safer. There should be more choices than 1 manufacturer making a saw with a blade brake.

[Jacob Griffith]

Hi Gregg,

I'm not sure which part you wanted some more detail on, but I can tell you that Illinois (where I teach) does not require them. We upgraded to a SS last year (5HP, 3 PH) while the other shop has a PM 66. I know a lot of shop teachers that have got them or wish they had them.

As for the Delta, I never used a unisaw, so I can't comment on that.

[Mike Heidrick]

I am thinking $2550 for that new scaled down 3hp cabinet saw is a DARN AWESOME PRICE. No shipping charges (even if you get it at a local store), no tax. Heck you could make money on it when you were done with the 45 day eval. Good luck in anyones decision to get in on the test! Sure do love my 5hp cabinet SS. It cost a lot more (fully outfitted) than $2550 even in 2006!

[Rob Price]

I'm in. I'll post my thoughts when the thing shows up.

[Andrew Taft]

I just signed up too. Supposedly shipping 3rd or 4th week of March. Will post pictures when it arrives.

andrew

[mreza Salav]

Where do you guys place your order? does this discount also apply to Canadians?
I checked both woodcraft and sawstop webpages and nothing about this :confused::confused:

[Paul Ryan]

I ordered today as well. I ordered with the short fence, mobile base, extra cartridges and throat plate. Had the final talk with SWMBO and she basically said what are you waiting for.

[Dave Avery]

Where do you guys place your order? does this discount also apply to Canadians?
I checked both woodcraft and sawstop webpages and nothing about this :confused::confused:

I have the same question.....

[steve brownell]

I think it will definitely help to capture more of the hobbyist market share now! Does anyone know if it will have the riving knife or similar dust collection? At that price point I would consider it over other good saws on the market today! This is going to put a serious dent into the other TS companies!

I wonder if the price includes the lovely $450 delivery charge that SS charges everyone. I guess since it has 4 wheels and a motor, SS can charge close to the same delivery charge as Honda!
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon10.gif


For saws they are offering during the trial period saws, yes, the price does include freight.
36” set up - $2499
52” set up - $2559
Mobile base - $175

[steve brownell]

getting back on topic, a bit, I've been emailing SS about this saw in particular.

$2559 gets me the saw, 52" rails, extension table, AND shipping- this is with the 10% discount the OP was talking about. Add a mobile base, Dado brake, dado insert, extra brake, and you're still sub $3K.

I'd say this is comparable to a new Uni or PM2000 range plus shipping.

So do I buy sight unseen based on the good reviews of the current saw and contractor saw, or wait until it's "field tested."

as far as the buisness practices, do we hate the airbag people for making those standard? do we hate bill gates for making windows standard? (well okay, maybe we do). I don't fault a guy for trying to make money on a good idea, that's called capitalism.

I was thinking the same Rob, even with the discount offered by SS and the freight (included) I still passed, as I wanted to try-it-before-buying.

[mreza Salav]

For saws they are offering during the trial period saws, yes, the price does include freight.
36” set up - $2499
52” set up - $2559
Mobile base - $175

So nobody cares to reply to the question a few of us asked earlier:
From where can you get this saw at this trial price? Who do you contact?

[Ron Bott]

So nobody cares to reply to the question a few of us asked earlier:
From where can you get this saw at this trial price? Who do you contact?

I believe you had to be on their email list. I received an email that announced the "trial" offer of the news saws, pricing info, etc. I think it was less than a day later another email indicated that all the available saws were accounted for. Looks like everyone else will have to wait until June, the scheduled availability date, assuming all goes well with the pre-production models.

[Rob Price]

I thought my earlier post was clear, I EMAILED sawstop about the saw. That's how I got in touch with them, you can call too.

[mreza Salav]

thanks. I called them and they said only to a handful of select people.
Will wait and see.

[Rob Price]

my PCS ships today! SS asked I not talk about it publically (ie forums/blogs etc) until the official release. I guess my lips are sealed... I'll be sure to keep notes. I already have my first project for it- a router station and then probably a torsion box assembly table, and then...

[Paul Ryan]

I just thought I would let you guys know. There are still quite a few saws left to purchase under the field test program. I talked to Dylan at SawStop yesterday about my saw. It is shipping today. He asked me if I new anyone else that would be interested in testing one out. It is a pretty good discount right now between the 3-4 hundred mark. The new saw does not ship with the over under dust collection. That will arrive later, this summer, when the final production saw is released. It will be sent to field testers free of charge. The field test saw is covered by a normal warranty, and if any changes are made to the final production saw, those changes will be made to the test saws as well. SawStop doesn't expect any changes due to the heavy testing they have already done. Just thought I would pass the info along. If you are interested in checking this out. Call or send SawStop and email.

Looks like my wife has got her wish. I'm not complaining.

[Frank Trinkle]

OK.. just talked to Dylan! Awaiting program email, and I'm gonna jump!