PDA

View Full Version : Why's everybody baggin' on IKEA?



John Sanford
02-26-2009, 1:58 AM
Alrighty then, I live somewhere where we don't have an IKEA. I've been into one twice. I don't understand the virulent disdain that so many on here have for them.

What's the beef?

Bob Luciano
02-26-2009, 2:10 AM
It's imported landfill. Least around here you can get anything they sell off the free listings on CL. I guess there is a need for disposable household goods but it is all they seem to sell

Joe Jensen
02-26-2009, 2:15 AM
None from me. IMHO they have the absolute best products available at the price points they sell. Who can compare, maybe Walmart or Kmart crapola. If I were just starting out afrer college, my first appartment would be furnished by them. Having said that, I don't think many of their items would survive a move once assembled.

I did buy some of their book cases for my kids bedrooms as they were cheaper than I could build, even if I used sheathing. They look nice, have real beech veneer, and even some hardwood. If you look close, a table that seems to be made from solid beech will have legs that are some cheap core with veneer on all sides, very well done, but veneer.

I read they they hire very good designers who design trendy items to a strict price point. Like, the best coffee table for $39.

I bought a kitchen table to use as a desk for the kids room. I was solid butcher block beech, beech veneered rails and legs. About 30" deep by 50" wide. Price, $60. I bought and modified it to fit a 40" open because it was soo much cheaper than buying wood and building from scratch. AND, because all this furniture is temporary. the kids go to college soon and we won't have this furniture once they are gone.

Paul Greathouse
02-26-2009, 2:40 AM
"Virulent Disdain", thats a good one, I'm going to have to remember that.:D If veneer is what someone wants, thats fine for them but I can build a much finer set of cabinets that will be superior in both apperance and craftsmanship to any of the mass produced brands.

I think most of the guys that are knocking IKEA are just calling a spade a spade. They can detect true craftsmanship and have a bit of disdain for anything thats not. The mass produced cabinets look good from a distance, they are designed to catch the eye but when you get up close you can see the difference if you know what to look for.

Rick Fisher
02-26-2009, 2:46 AM
Nothing wrong with Ikea..

Folks who are starting out .. have no money..

Woodworkers tend to respect quality construction.. Ikea is landfill with a photo finish. :)

If folks cannot afford much.. Ikea is awesome.

chris beserra
02-26-2009, 2:53 AM
The kitchen stuff is really nice for a non-custom cabinet, better than most of the HD or Lowes stuff. The best part is the hardware - everything is Blum and Blumotion. Due to the huge volumes they deal with, you can get Blum hinges and drawer glides for soooo cheap :)

Or... you can buy the kitchen cabinet carcasses for just a ridiculously low price and make your own doors. The particle board used in Ikea kitchen cabinets is the higher grade material. It's also great for garages, laundry rooms, and just about anywhere.

Non-kitchen Ikea merchandise - really check it out first so you know what you are getting.

Don Morris
02-26-2009, 4:19 AM
It all ships flat that's what makes it easy to transport; a big plus. I bought some when I was on active duty and was transferred to Italy and needed easily shipable temporary furniture for 3 to 4 years. Assembled it in Italy. It worked out fine. Looked nice, sold some to the local Italians when we left. Kept some, and that was 20 years ago. I still have it in the garage where it doesn't take much traffic and heavy use (lightly reinforced by me). But permanent long lasting stuff, no way. Reasonably nice veneer, if you don't have heavy wear on it, it will last a while. Nothing with a solid core.

We bought a bedside lamp from there recently. Was just the right design/fit for what my wife wanted. She's a Swede and we were there getting Swedish meatballs and Lingonberries when she saw it.

Chris Bruno
02-26-2009, 6:58 AM
We recently bought our first Ikea 'furniture' pieces - a storage unit + changing table for the kids' playroom. Its solid pine with a reasonably durable poly finish.

It has these plastic doors and drawer fronts that a a 'playful' color for the kids, but they would be very easily replaced with doors I could make myself once the kids get older and we want it to look less 'romper-room'ish.

If it had dados and plugged screw holes, it would be almost identical to what I could build myself, and it was WAAAY less time for me...

I think with the Ikea, as with most place that sell goods targeted for the lower end of the price scale (Harbor Freight comes to mind), there are pieces that aren't worth the effort to drive there and then there are some real gems. I actually think Ikea happens to have a higher percentage of gems than most of the low cost stores I frequent.

My brother happens to be a real Ikea nut...him and his wife like the modern looking furniture - and Ikea offers it for pretty low prices. He actually breaks out the poly glue when assembling their furniture.... his attitude is that the good furniture wouldn't knock down anyways, so by gluing it together it helps bring the Ikea up a notch... just another viewpoint for you.

-Chris

Dave Avery
02-26-2009, 7:26 AM
The kitchen stuff is really nice for a non-custom cabinet, better than most of the HD or Lowes stuff. The best part is the hardware - everything is Blum and Blumotion. Due to the huge volumes they deal with, you can get Blum hinges and drawer glides for soooo cheap :)

Or... you can buy the kitchen cabinet carcasses for just a ridiculously low price and make your own doors. The particle board used in Ikea kitchen cabinets is the higher grade material. It's also great for garages, laundry rooms, and just about anywhere.

Non-kitchen Ikea merchandise - really check it out first so you know what you are getting.

Exactly..... I couldn't buy the materials to make cabinet drawers for what I could buy the entire Ikea cabinet. And the're pretty good quality - certainly good enough to last the 20 years that most cabinets need to last before they're ripped out for remodeling....

Per Swenson
02-26-2009, 8:24 AM
A month or so ago I saw a Cragslist add, Ikea...Furniture assembler.

50 bucks a hour. Two hour minimum.

Hey, that's great. I mean whats your overhead? A screwdriver?

Tough times.

Per

Byron Trantham
02-26-2009, 8:55 AM
My wife and I bought a bunch of Ikea office furniture over 25 years ago [before I even knew what a circular saw is]. The stuff is still in great shape. It's been moved twice by commercial movers (who did not break the stuff down). Still standing. The finish is still in good shape. I have no idea of what their is stuff is now but I would imagine it hasn't changed much since they are still in business.

Sonny Edmonds
02-26-2009, 9:27 AM
Because I don't like it when somebody comes to me for a custom project, then gets indignant when they don't get an Ikea price.
If you can't see what all this imported crap has done to the USA and the American labor market, no amount of explanation can help you see clearly.

I'll give you this much, it beats the crap flooding in from China.

"Ya know, Vern, some folks will never be able to see the forest through all them trees!" :confused:

John Callahan
02-26-2009, 9:32 AM
What's the beef?
The Swedish meatballs they have are pretty darn good. :rolleyes: DW likes Ikea and I've suffered through assembly of a few wardrobe closets among other things which included a few trips back to store .......... never seemed to have it all in stock and remaining stuff came in piecemeal. DW rolls her eyes when I call it the "Swedish Cardboard Furniture Store". All in all though it's good stuff at it's price point- better than most anything else I've seen. I couldn't have built the wardrobe closets for the same money. They've held up fine, survived a move, and now do duty in the basement. I think some of the beef is that for many, Ikea has become the symbol of a "disposable society". Heirloom it most certainly is not but I think it has it's place ................. hopefully not again at our house.

Michael Wildt
02-26-2009, 9:39 AM
Who cares about the furniture, I go there for the swedish meatballs!!!

Seriously, it is like any other store, it all depends on what you're looking for. Some items work some don't. Same with high end stores.

I got some nice table legs, metal, for my desk (solid core door slab) that no one else carried.

Michael

David G Baker
02-26-2009, 9:39 AM
Could be that the image that Ikea brings to mind is that it is the Harbor Freight of the type of items that they sell. Most of the time the items work if not over used or abused.
When I first started setting up a household everything was raw, self assembled particle board that served me well until I made enough money to buy better. Like John wrote they now occupy a place in the basement and shop still functioning fine.

Chris Friesen
02-26-2009, 11:20 AM
Some Ikea stuff is solid wood, although it's often laminated up from smaller pieces. This could be viewed as recycling scraps. :)

I just bought two large loosely-shaker dressers from there because we have a new baby and I won't have time to make new dressers for quite a while. The funny thing is that the black-brown stained version is all solid wood, but the white painted version is mostly particleboard and fiberboard. It's definitely not solid cherry, but at $300 instead of $7000, I'll take it.

Someday I'll build the cherry version though...

Dewey Torres
02-26-2009, 11:40 AM
It may just be me but most of their furniture I find slightly undersized for my taste. The housewares items section usually had good deals though.

Richard Niemiec
02-26-2009, 11:52 AM
Alrighty then, I live somewhere where we don't have an IKEA. I've been into one twice. I don't understand the virulent disdain that so many on here have for them.

What's the beef?


The stuff is built "just good enough" to sell, and sells cheaply, which works for some folks who have the need furnish a home but not the bank account, and god bless as it fills a marketing niche.

But for anyone who can make furniture, or who knows the difference between well and poorly made goods, IKEA stuff just doesn't cut it, and never will. Lets face it, cheap is cheap. Sort of like Bernie Madoff's ponzi scheme, if it sounds too good to be true, it's not. Somebody earlier put their finger on it, "IKEA = Landfill with a photo finish." YMMV.

Tom Esh
02-26-2009, 1:00 PM
One particular Seinfeld episode did it for me. Since then I've never been able to look at the stuff without exclaiming "Aye! KEA!" :D

fRED mCnEILL
02-26-2009, 1:31 PM
A friend had to remodel here kitchen due to frozen pipes and water damage. Ikea cabinets came in at less that 1/2 comparable competitor. And she had it within a week. The trick is figuring our what you need. It is quite involved to get it right. But if you like the Ikea style(which I don't) there is nothing wrong with it.

In my mind anything other than solid wood is bogus for kitchen cabinets. But I think that most commercial carcases are NOT solid wood. So that puts me in the minority.

Fred Mc.

Jeffrey Makiel
02-26-2009, 2:07 PM
A month or so ago I saw a Cragslist add, Ikea...Furniture assembler.

50 bucks a hour. Two hour minimum.

Hey, that's great. I mean whats your overhead? A screwdriver?

Tough times.

Per

Per,
Assembly usually requires an allen wrench. And... it's provided with the furniture. :)

-Jeff :)

Scott Wigginton
02-26-2009, 2:35 PM
Per,
Assembly usually requires an allen wrench. And... it's provided with the furniture. :)

-Jeff :)

Like a furniture happy meal, new tool included!

Hmm.. sounds like most of the projects I build anyway ... honey, you know that edge profile you love so much for that table? I'm off to the store to get it just for you :D

Paul Steiner
02-26-2009, 2:52 PM
Per,
Assembly usually requires an allen wrench. And... it's provided with the furniture. :)

-Jeff :)


This is sad but true, several times in college I picked up beer money assembling ikea/walmart furniture. $20 at the most. But IKEA is landfill furniture and if you don't believe it go to any college town the second week of May. Ikea furniture on curbs, broken into pieces in trash cans, thrown in dumpsters, or just left in the dorm or apartment where the student lived. It May last a few years but it all ends up in the landfill.

John Schreiber
02-26-2009, 2:55 PM
I think it's the difference between furniture you buy for today vs. furniture you buy for a lifetime and more. Ikea has attractive well designed well built disposable furniture.

I think it's bad for the soul to live in a disposable world.

Like others have said, their prices are incredible for what you get and that pushes down the price people think furniture should cost. It is frustrating when I can't get materials for what they sell a whole piece for.

Rod Sheridan
02-26-2009, 3:57 PM
OK, I'll step up and say the heretical on a woodworking forum.

IKEA furniture is excellent.

Now that you've had time to stop laughing, or are wondering what I'm smoking, here's my rational.

1) The design is outstanding. Proportion, functionality, surface treatment are all excellent looking.

2) Engineering. It has outstanding engineering, from material utilization, simplicity of design, optimized strength for expected loads, it's engineering excellence.

3) Preservation of resources, face it, most of it is made of the stuff we empty out of our cyclones. It uses a minimum of solid wood, veneer or foil on the remainder.
Much of the Ikea furniture lasts a while (transient students excepted), so it may be more resource respectful than that stool for the workshop you made out of the last piece of unobtanium on the planet.

4) Some of it is made in America ( I watched a show on the new Ikea factory in Virginia??). The factory esentially saved the ex tobacco town from ruin.

Wait a minute, if it's made in Virginia that does make it imported crap!!!!:eek:

So, it's not that I want a living room full of Ikea furniture, however it does have many positive aspects.

The breakfasts, lingonberry jam and roll mops are great too.

regards, Rod.

Mike Parzych
02-26-2009, 4:01 PM
I believe they're becoming the new Pottery Barn. Used to bne you weren't really a woodworker until somebody asked if you could build them something they saw at Pottery barn.....and do it cheaper, by the way.

Chris Tsutsui
02-26-2009, 4:39 PM
My first post and it's to say that as a "hobbyest" I have nothing against ikea. :)

People that can afford fine woodworking KNOW the quality difference between a particle board laminate dresser, compared to a solid wood dresser with dovetail drawers on high end guides.

It's just sad that Ikea is putting a lot of shops out of business. The only thing good about them is they ARE satisfying many people with providing designer furnture for the best bang per buck. It may not be heirloom quality, but as long as people keep buying, they will continue to dominate that market.

Still, I will gladly make myself fine furniture because people still appreciate craftsmanship when they see it.

In the long run, I just hope that Ikea doesn't harm the "culture" of fine woodworking and discourage too many woodworkers and/or put too many small shops out of business...

Brian Kent
02-26-2009, 5:01 PM
A lot of its utility can be found if you shop there in August. I used to see wall to wall students looking for dorm structures they could afford.

I recognize the frustration of trying to compete against their prices if you are building life-time furniture.

Dave Cav
02-26-2009, 5:41 PM
I pretty much agree with Rod and some others, and in fact my entire master bedroom is done with Ikea furniture. About seven years ago we moved into a new house. The master BR is about 3X as big as the old one, and our old BR furniture was REALLY crap. At that time I still didn't have my shop set up and I didn't have time to make a whole bedroom full of stuff- two dressers, a bed, armiore and a couple of bookcases. We went to Ikea (the only time I recall having gone there) and found some decent, solid (sort of) pine stuff. The sides are made of glued up smaller pieces, but everything matched, the build quality was decent, and all the drawers and doors all still work fine after seven years. The price was reasonable, and it did a good job of filling up the room. It's not "fine furniture" and I'm sure I'll eventually get around to replacing it, but I have a sideboard and a full set of Mission office furniture that are going to get done first.

Back in the late '70s we bought some knocked down "Danish Modern" furniture. It wasn't cheap, and it was teak veneer, but it went together with QD fittings, and after a couple of years it was falling apart. It made the Ikea stuff look like heirloom quality furniture.

Rod- PM me about your Airhead!

Larry Edgerton
02-26-2009, 5:49 PM
I have never seen an IKEA store.......

Tony Bilello
02-26-2009, 6:13 PM
:)I have not seen one reply to this thread by an Ikea owner claiming it's quality furniture. I think you get a good product for what you are paying for.
I am a part time woodworker making furniture pieces for sale. I don't feel threatened by Ikea. It fills the needs of a certain market that either dont want to spend a lot of money on furniture for whatever reason or can't afford to. This does not affect me. These people would not buy from me anyway. Given their budget, if Ikea didn't exist, they would be buying furniture from Goodwill or a resale shop.
I am not competing with Ikea. I am competing for $$$$. My major competitors are the gasoline companies, the farmers, the food stores, the drug stores etc.

Let the games begin. :)

Bruce Benjamin
02-26-2009, 7:13 PM
Because I don't like it when somebody comes to me for a custom project, then gets indignant when they don't get an Ikea price.
If you can't see what all this imported crap has done to the USA and the American labor market, no amount of explanation can help you see clearly.

I'll give you this much, it beats the crap flooding in from China.

"Ya know, Vern, some folks will never be able to see the forest through all them trees!" :confused:

It sounds to me like the problem isn't with Ikea but with the type of people your business attracts. Blame the intelligence of your customers instead of Ikea.

I agree that imports have hurt the American market but some of the fault lies with the American manufacturers. And what difference does it make whether the stuff is imported from Europe or China? Any imports hurt the American market so why differentiate? Would you feel better if it was an American company that was making the cheap furniture?

It looks like you have 3 choices: 1) Build cheaper furniture to keep the prices down. 2) Learn to be a better salesman to explain to the complaining customers why your furniture costs more. 3) Find a different class of customers and blow off the rest.

Bruce

Jim Mattheiss
02-26-2009, 8:53 PM
I have an Ikea Poang chair. It's a bentwood chair with a pad velcroed on. I performed the 2 am bottle feedings for both of my children in that chair or it's twin.

13 years later one of those chairs is in the corner of the living room and it's my laptop chair. I'll replace it eventually with a Morris Chair when I have the skill to actually build a Morris Chair for myself ...

+1 on the Swedish meatballs.

The best part of Ikea is walking around and reading the names. It seems to me that some american is looking at the items, thinking of adjectives and related words and then saying them in a swedish accent. At some point they come up with something that sticks. Some of the names almost seem tongue in cheek!

Jim

Tom Majewski
02-26-2009, 9:45 PM
I've bought Ikea kitchen cabinets. IMO they're great. A few steps up from builder's grade or Borg stuff. All solid wood on front, no particle board on the doors, facework, and all the hinges and drawer sliders are still smooth after 5 years.
The freestanding base cabinets I bought, like http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/90049200 I couldn't buy the stock for their prices. All solid Beech and stainless steel.

Kevin Groenke
02-26-2009, 9:47 PM
Obviously it's important to know what you're getting, but if you do, the prices on some IKEA's stuff is nearly unbelievable. I couldn't even buy the stock for the price. Yeah, it's not what I would build, but I'm not gonna build EVERYTHING, not all at once anyway.,

FÖRHÖJA - island, solid birch $99

PRONOMEN - 1-1/8x25x96 solid beach countertop $79

HELMER makes good shop storage.

Their triple clad FAVORIT cookware is comparable to AllClad for a fraction.

+1 on the POANG chair, I doubt I'll ever approach the simplicity, quality and comfort with anything I'll ever make. I think it look pretty good too.

The HJUVIK faucet isn't cheap but it ROCKS!!

I avoid the PB core stuff, I hate minifix kd fasteners, but I kinda like IKEA and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

-kg

Dave Sabo
02-26-2009, 10:05 PM
Chris - I think you and others may be drinkin the KoolAid. Sure, IKEA uses Blum & Blumotion and gets a great deal because of volume. But.............what they don;t tell you is that Blum makes that stuff on contract for IKEA only and to IKEA's specs and price point. You are not getting the same full extension drawer runner with soft close that you'd get at you local cabinet hardware supplier costing 25 bucks a throw. Is it good enough? For the money - probably, but lets not forget we're still comparing apples to oranges. My neigbor just got a brand new BMW 1 series. Much newer than my top of the range 750il, which do you think is the better car? But they are both BMW's he says. Names and labels are no assurance of quality these days.

Pat Germain
02-26-2009, 10:06 PM
Asking woodworkers what they think of IKEA is like asking fine Italian chefs what they think of Olive Garden. :D

My perspective is the stuff at most furniture stores is even lower in quality than IKEA and it's priced much higher. I have visited many, many furniture stores. Just about everything in them is particle board with contact paper. Most people look at it, think it looks swell, and pony up. Then people see this stuff in their friends' houses and they buy it too. Thus, you end up with expensive, custom homes full of particle board and contact paper furniture. :rolleyes:

I think IKEA is a major step up from that stuff. When my son moved to Seattle a few years ago, we went to the IKEA store. (That place ginormous!) The boy got a very nice queen sized futon with a steel frame for a song. It's a great bed/couch. He also got a small table and four chairs made of solid wood. It's a very soft wood with some kind of oil finish, but I thought it was a swell buy. He would have paid more for particle board and contact paper at American Furniture Warehouse.

As for IKEA furniture not surviving college students, what would? Sheesh, you could make furniture out of cinder blocks and college students would trash it. And I think a lot of students these days throw out their furniture because they don't want to haul it away. Rich college kids will just get new stuff.

Anything an accomplished woodworker makes in his shop is going to be far superior to almost everything available in the new furniture retail market. The only real competition for furniture we make is fine antiques and a few specialty, custom guys.

So, IKEA is the Olive Garden of furniture stores. I think that's just fine.

Mike Robbins
02-26-2009, 10:23 PM
I actually mostly like IKEA, but have mixed feelings. I've got 3 of the Poang chairs, two downstairs and one upstairs in my office. Got a sofa with removable slipcovers in the sitting room- cheap removable slipcovers are great, particularly with dogs around. Scale is good for smaller houses and rooms. The design and engineering is pretty well done and simple. It is what it is.

Is their stuff disposable? Yes. But then again I guess so is 90% of what I see at Pottery Barn, Ashley Furniture, or even a Basset outlet these days. IKEA is light years ahead of the Sanford crap at Wal*Mart. If I was on a tight budget and needed to furnish a living space NOW I'd probably buy a bunch of stuff from there. Servicable quality (no better, no worse) for a low price- as opposed to servicable quality with a sales pitch for a higher price at most other retail outlets.

The pricepoints on some bits are insane. I know I couldn't buy the materials plus hardware for some of the items. The hate is probably because of this. It sets an expectation of what something 'should cost'. This makes it harder to sell a finely crafted solid wood dresser for $1200 when you can get a servicable one at IKEA for $250.

Deeper down, I think some of the disdain is because it corrupts what we feel furniture should be. IKEA furnature is like kitchen cabinets, it has a finite lifetime. It's mortal. It doesn't live through the ages like some federal pieces have over the years, like some pieces folks on this forum have made will live on years from now. IKEA furnature is contemporary, but temporary. A well crafted QSWO mission table is permanant. It lives on.

Most consumers aren't willing to pay for immortality, for fine craftsmanship. That's what IKEA reminds us of. And it makes us sad.

Greg Pavlov
02-26-2009, 10:24 PM
I think it's the difference between furniture you buy for today vs. furniture you buy for a lifetime and more. Ikea has attractive well designed well built disposable furniture.

I think it's bad for the soul to live in a disposable world.
A huge amount of the goods we buy that are disposable now weren't 50 years ago, but I don't think that all that much has changed in furniture. What we see of the good old days is the well-built stuff that managed to survive. What we don't see is all of the very cheap furniture that was made for factory workers, etc that is long-gone. Houses are like that as well: very few people lived in Victorians, but sometimes it seems that way because most of the ramshackle buildings that the majority of the people inhabited are long-gone.

Pat Germain
02-26-2009, 10:40 PM
^^ Very good points, Greg. It's like all the people I know who inherit fine antiques and exquisite jewelry from relatives. I used to wonder why I never inherited anything like that. Well, I eventually figured out my family members never had any money. All the stuff they owned wore out and was thrown away. There was nothing left to pass down, which is OK by me. I do have some very beautiful pictures of my ancestors. :)

Come to think of it, I probably wouldn't want that aquamarine, naugahyde couch and faux marble coffee tables my grandparents had anyway.

Tony Bilello
02-27-2009, 12:33 AM
A huge amount of the goods we buy that are disposable now weren't 50 years ago, but I don't think that all that much has changed in furniture. What we see of the good old days is the well-built stuff that managed to survive. What we don't see is all of the very cheap furniture that was made for factory workers, etc that is long-gone. Houses are like that as well: very few people lived in Victorians, but sometimes it seems that way because most of the ramshackle buildings that the majority of the people inhabited are long-gone.

I always try to stress that point. As a matter of fact, the finer furniture built today is far superior in quality to almost anything built a few hundred years ago, mainly due to new techniques and new technology. Most people never get to see this stuff unless you look in Architectural Digest or similar magazines. I can assure you that an $8000 dining table will be an heirloom.
Who has $8K to spend on a dining table? The same kind of people that bought the equivelant pieces 200 years ago that you see in museums.

200 years ago not many furniture makers made junk. And even fewer people could aford it.

John Sanford
02-27-2009, 12:42 AM
A month or so ago I saw a Cragslist add, Ikea...Furniture assembler.

50 bucks a hour. Two hour minimum.

Hey, that's great. I mean whats your overhead? A screwdriver?

Tough times.

Per

No, the overhead is more than just a screwdriver. Travel time to and from the jobsite. If working legally, then you may need to get a handyman's license, pay unemployment insurance, workman's comp, liability insurance, social security on both sides of the paycheck, etc. Then there's the risk. You're going to other folk's homes. There's a reason pizza delivery is one of the most dangerous jobs in the country, and it ain't because of the pepperoni.

That rate is pretty high, $35 is much more reasonable. However, in this day and age when so many folks have minimal manual skills, there will be folks who will pay $50 an hour for assembly of RTA items. Aside from a home gym or jungle gym/swingset, nothing in the RTA world should take a competent assembler more than an hour, so the 2 hour minimum is goofy.

Mike Null
02-27-2009, 7:03 AM
You obviously haven't attempted to put together a doll house with Christmas morning fast approaching.

Dave Avery
02-27-2009, 7:45 AM
Chris - I think you and others may be drinkin the KoolAid. Sure, IKEA uses Blum & Blumotion and gets a great deal because of volume. But.............what they don;t tell you is that Blum makes that stuff on contract for IKEA only and to IKEA's specs and price point. You are not getting the same full extension drawer runner with soft close that you'd get at you local cabinet hardware supplier costing 25 bucks a throw. Is it good enough? For the money - probably, but lets not forget we're still comparing apples to oranges. My neigbor just got a brand new BMW 1 series. Much newer than my top of the range 750il, which do you think is the better car? But they are both BMW's he says. Names and labels are no assurance of quality these days.

The 1 series is faster and handles much better - what else would you want in a car?

Per Swenson
02-27-2009, 7:49 AM
I am only gonna dicker with you a little bit, John.

2 hour min assumes the guy, just to show up, gets a hundred bucks.

Folks furnish whole apartments in NJ with Ikea.

Do you think some entrepreneurial kid on Craigs list is concerned

with WK Comp, Tax's, the gubbimint in general?

Cash is king. You know, like the kids that shovel driveways.

Me? I may agree with you, but I give the kid credit for putting down the bong and cell phone.

Per

Chris Kennedy
02-27-2009, 8:49 AM
A month or so ago I saw a Cragslist add, Ikea...Furniture assembler.

50 bucks a hour. Two hour minimum.

Hey, that's great. I mean whats your overhead? A screwdriver?

Tough times.

Per

Cheaper than that -- allen key.

John Carlo
02-27-2009, 9:24 AM
I'm building a bunch of laundry room cabinets out of red oak plywood with solid oak face frames and raised panel doors. Why? Ego! Most of our friends come in through the garage and right through the laundry room and then they see what I do with all those tools out in the shop.
Now, get past ego and the fun of working with wood and tools and I have to admit, the IKEA stuff is very tempting. My daughter is a very successful designer and she would probably appreciate the clean modern lines and finishes of the IKEA cabinets. But then, I have the laundry room all trimmed out in red oak with the same for 6 panel doors so you see a certain "richness" to the house when you walk in. Still, instead of being out in the shop I could be in the house drinking beer, eating chips, and watching the idiot box.

Dave Sabo
02-27-2009, 9:36 AM
The 1 series is faster and handles much better - what else would you want in a car?


Dave a 1 series is not faster, not really close. And, you'd have to define the parameters of handling before I'd be willing to concede that point.

Dave Avery
02-27-2009, 2:00 PM
Dave a 1 series is not faster, not really close. And, you'd have to define the parameters of handling before I'd be willing to concede that point.

Depending on sources, the 135i automatic is 4.7 seconds 0-60 with the automatic. BMW quotes 5.2 for the 750. If you're talking about top speed, who cares..... no sane person explores top speeds on public roads.

Going back to the spirit of the original post, not all Ikea stuff is junk. Yes, you usually get what you pay for, but paying for kitchen cabinets that will last 100 years when they'll be thrown away in a remodel 10, 20, or 30 years later is wasteful.

Your implication that the 1 series is of lower quality than the 7 series, particularly given the 7 series VERY spotty early quality performance, is not supported by the facts. Paying a high price does not guarantee quality. Ask my pal who owns an Escalade.

John Sanford
02-27-2009, 10:18 PM
I am only gonna dicker with you a little bit, John.

2 hour min assumes the guy, just to show up, gets a hundred bucks.

Folks furnish whole apartments in NJ with Ikea.

Do you think some entrepreneurial kid on Craigs list is concerned

with WK Comp, Tax's, the gubbimint in general?

Cash is king. You know, like the kids that shovel driveways.

Me? I may agree with you, but I give the kid credit for putting down the bong and cell phone.

Per

Hey, I give him lotsa credit! I've done that sort of work, hence I know what's involved and such. Lacking an IKEA here, I can't really imagine anybody getting that much RTA in one shot, except maybe a business.

If the dude can get folks to pay him that much, more power to him. All I can say is "them newfangled subcompact drivers are your friend!!"

Kelly C. Hanna
02-27-2009, 10:39 PM
They are cheapening our country and making it OK for those who know no better to love crap. Imagine being impressed with particleboard and you get the picture.

I can only imagine how many woodworkers have lost out to the antichrist of good taste. I know I have lost two small projects to them myself and I am not even a full time furniture builder.

Personally I will never set foot in one and the wife is banned as well.

Pat Germain
02-27-2009, 11:03 PM
They are cheapening our country and making it OK for those who know no better to love crap. Imagine being impressed with particleboard and you get the picture.

I can only imagine how many woodworkers have lost out to the antichrist of good taste. I know I have lost two small projects to them myself and I am not even a full time furniture builder.

Personally I will never set foot in one and the wife is banned as well.

I'm sure auto manufacturers who hand-crafted their cars one at a time and sold them at a very high price felt the same way about Henry Ford's crappy, mass produced cars. It is the way of the world, my friend. And it's nothing new.

Bad taste goes back to early man who displayed tapestries of dogs playing poker in their caves.

Stephen Edwards
02-27-2009, 11:11 PM
They are cheapening our country and making it OK for those who know no better to love crap. Imagine being impressed with particleboard and you get the picture.

I can only imagine how many woodworkers have lost out to the antichrist of good taste. I know I have lost two small projects to them myself and I am not even a full time furniture builder.

If people are happy with particle board and paper that looks like wood grain, that's their choice and their business. We can't dictate what is "good taste".

If people care enough about and can afford custom built furniture or cabinets, good for them and good for us who are woodworkers! If they don't care or can't afford it, we didn't lose out because some company has a system and a product line that people are satisfied with. If we don't get a job for a particular piece it's because the customer isn't willing to pay our price and are satisfied with what they can get within their budget. That's the free market.

Kelly C. Hanna
02-27-2009, 11:19 PM
Yessir you are correct about that. Sad but true. But I won't be contributing to their success. I like technology as much as the next person, but I draw the line at the lack of quality.

I needed to convert my pool room into an office recently. Instead of buying a cheap set of glass and metal desks I bought two older solid Oak desks and converted one into a drafting table. I guess I just think like that. Probably the same reason I don't drop off a crew of unskilled workers to build decks at people's houses like 99.9% of the rest of the deckbuilders in our area.

We all draw the line at certain things in life....someday you will probably do the same.

Pat Germain
02-27-2009, 11:26 PM
I admire your high standards, Kelly. Alas, such dedication to quality does seem rare these days.

I'm a big fan of science fiction author Phillip K. Dick. Many of his stories take place in a world where everything is run down and falling apart and nobody knows how to fix or build anything. The older I get, the more reality I see in those stories.

Stephen Edwards
02-27-2009, 11:35 PM
Yessir you are correct about that. Sad but true. But I won't be contributing to their success. I like technology as much as the next person, but I draw the line at the lack of quality.

I needed to convert my pool room into an office recently. Instead of buying a cheap set of glass and metal desks I bought two older solid Oak desks and converted one into a drafting table. I guess I just think like that. Probably the same reason I don't drop off a crew of unskilled workers to build decks at people's houses like 99.9% of the rest of the deckbuilders in our area.

We all draw the line at certain things in life....someday you will probably do the same.

Kelly, I agree with your concept of style and taste. Like you, I'd much rather have the old oak desk for a drafting table than some shiny new glass and metal "thing" that has no character.

My "lines" have been drawn for decades. My point is that there's nothing that we can do to convince others to have the same sense of taste that we have, whatever that may be. Nor should we. People who build as you and do have our customers. The PB manufacturers have theirs. We can draw OUR line but we can't draw the line for other people. It's impossible to do and frustrating to even attempt. That's my point.

Dave Sabo
02-28-2009, 12:33 AM
Depending on sources, the 135i automatic is 4.7 seconds 0-60 with the automatic. BMW quotes 5.2 for the 750. If you're talking about top speed, who cares..... no sane person explores top speeds on public roads.

And we all know that rational folks would be interested in the 0-60 times for those drag races at the track or in front of the mall. Montana has no speed limit and few people on the roads, parts of West Texas and Nevada have straight flat roads that can easily and safely handle 100+ mph if yuo choose not to obey the statutes.

Anyway - what I am saying is the component quality in the lower series cars is not as good as the top range ones. Is it good enough????

Per Swenson
02-28-2009, 1:39 AM
And if I throw Ikea furniture off the roof at 32 feet per second per second......
will it compensate and will I feel better in the morning?
Just askin.

Per

John Callahan
02-28-2009, 8:18 AM
............. depends on if you have to clean it up afterward. :D

David Keller NC
02-28-2009, 9:30 AM
"I always try to stress that point. As a matter of fact, the finer furniture built today is far superior in quality to almost anything built a few hundred years ago, mainly due to new techniques and new technology. Most people never get to see this stuff unless you look in Architectural Digest or similar magazines. I can assure you that an $8000 dining table will be an heirloom.
Who has $8K to spend on a dining table? The same kind of people that bought the equivelant pieces 200 years ago that you see in museums."

Hmm - I'm clearly behind on this thread, but I thought I should comment here, because the above statement is misleading. One could easily draw the conclusion that furniture made today is of superior quality to furniture built 50 years ago because of technology, but not several hundred years ago.

It's incorrect to assume that very little of the "ordinary man's" furniture from colonial times hasn't survived because it wasn't of high quality. In fact, a great deal of it survives to this day, perhaps more so than the pieces that are seen in Sotheby's catalogs and museums. It's just that it doesn't bring stratospheric prices the way Newport secretaries do, and the design of much of it stood the test of time and since it wasn't labeled, it's not possible to tell the difference between a tavern table made in 1753 from one made in 1895.

Moreover, almost all of this furniture, though intended to be cheap and utilitarian, is constructed to extraordinarily high standards. It's just that our mentality as a society has changed radically from even our grandparent's day, much less our great,great,great,great,great grandparents. Very, very little of what was produced several hundred years ago was intended to be disposable, but almost everything today is.

Jim Becker
02-28-2009, 10:30 AM
John, I don't understand it, either. My experience with Ikea...since they first came to the US with their first store near here, and with the exception of a single item, has been very positive. There low-end stuff is, well, low end. But the quality at the other end of the spectrum is quite good. And it's not all "particle board", either. My daughter's dresser is solid pine. The only non-pine component is the 1/4" MDF back panel. Bringing it home made my Highlander smell of pine for nearly a week. I have leather love seats and a matching chair that have been in service since the early 1990s and look nearly new outside of a few small scratches.

Their kitchen cabinet systems are extremely well engineered...the only downside is the lack of careful matching of lumber in doors and drawer fronts, but they have metal Blum drawers as well as Blumotion. The hanging rail system for upper cabinets is wonderful and with the advantage over a French cleat that you don't have to drop the cabinet slightly to allow for the fit over the cleat...nice when you don't want to do a crown molding.

My office desk system has been with me since the early 1990s, too. It also looks nearly new.

Do I consider them a purveyor of fine furniture? No. But I'll shop there for basics and "immediate needs" before I'd patronize a lot of the "regular" chain furniture stores which are truly selling inferior stuff for way too much money.

Bruce Benjamin
02-28-2009, 1:16 PM
Yessir you are correct about that. Sad but true. But I won't be contributing to their success. I like technology as much as the next person, but I draw the line at the lack of quality.

I needed to convert my pool room into an office recently. Instead of buying a cheap set of glass and metal desks I bought two older solid Oak desks and converted one into a drafting table. I guess I just think like that. Probably the same reason I don't drop off a crew of unskilled workers to build decks at people's houses like 99.9% of the rest of the deckbuilders in our area.

We all draw the line at certain things in life....someday you will probably do the same.

Kelly, I wonder how far you actually take your claimed high and noble standards of where you, "Draw the line". I used to be a chef for a decade or so. I was very good at what I did and I worked in some pretty nice places up and down the West Coast. The places where I worked served excellent quality food and charged prices consistent with that quality. Yet, for some reason some people would decide to go to a cheaper place like Appleby's or some other corporate cookie cutter restaurant or even McDonald's. It sure didn't help our lunch or dinner business when another one of those slightly-better-than-fast-food places opened up nearby. They employ cooks without any special skills that work for less money and they don't use top notch ingredients. Hmmm...Starting to see the parallels here, Kelly?

So, when you go out to breakfast, lunch, or dinner do you always go out to the place where you support a true craftsman that serves the highest quality ingredients? Or do you sometimes draw that, "Line" of yours a little lower? Maybe you can save a few bucks, get it a little faster, make it a little more convenient and go for the trendy but cheap chain restaurant or maybe even hit up the fast food drive through. :eek: Yeah, that's what I thought. It sounds great to start preaching to everyone about your impeccably high standards but just how far do you actually carry that in your life? You may not eat out very often but if you ever have eaten at a less than top of the line restaurant then in essence you've also bought furniture from Ikea.

Some people just can't afford the best things in life all the time. Some people don't see the need to always strive for the best they can afford. I've never been to Ikea but from what it sounds like there are some guys on this forum who know what good furniture is and they feel the quality of Ikea isn't too bad after all. Yet there will always be someone claiming to have some sort of noble set of standards by which they live, sneering at the rest of us who don't. Well, the standards are noble until you ask them about how they spend the rest of their money...:rolleyes::p

Bruce

John Schreiber
02-28-2009, 4:28 PM
Kelly, I wonder how far you actually take your claimed high and noble standards of where you, "Draw the line". I used to be a chef for a decade or so. I was very good at what I did and I worked in some pretty nice places up and down the West Coast. The places where I worked served excellent quality food and charged prices consistent with that quality. Yet, for some reason some people would decide to go to a cheaper place like Appleby's or some other corporate cookie cutter restaurant or even McDonald's. It sure didn't help our lunch or dinner business when another one of those slightly-better-than-fast-food places opened up nearby. They employ cooks without any special skills that work for less money and they don't use top notch ingredients. Hmmm...Starting to see the parallels here, Kelly?

So, when you go out to breakfast, lunch, or dinner do you always go out to the place where you support a true craftsman that serves the highest quality ingredients? Or do you sometimes draw that, "Line" of yours a little lower? Maybe you can save a few bucks, get it a little faster, make it a little more convenient and go for the trendy but cheap chain restaurant or maybe even hit up the fast food drive through. :eek: Yeah, that's what I thought. It sounds great to start preaching to everyone about your impeccably high standards but just how far do you actually carry that in your life? You may not eat out very often but if you ever have eaten at a less than top of the line restaurant then in essence you've also bought furniture from Ikea.

Some people just can't afford the best things in life all the time. Some people don't see the need to always strive for the best they can afford. I've never been to Ikea but from what it sounds like there are some guys on this forum who know what good furniture is and they feel the quality of Ikea isn't too bad after all. Yet there will always be someone claiming to have some sort of noble set of standards by which they live, sneering at the rest of us who don't. Well, the standards are noble until you ask them about how they spend the rest of their money...:rolleyes::p

Bruce
At first, this seems like a fair comparison, but I don't really think it is. Food by it's nature is disposable and different restaurants meet different needs.

Part of our confusion is the difference between fancy and high quality. Furniture like food can be either, neither or both. Craftsmanship is a separate axis and can present or absent.

Ikea has excellent, trendy design and quality ranges from medium to poor. A burger at McDonald's is not fancy, but my perception is that it is equal in quality to what you get at all but the very best restaurants. Neither involve craftsmanship.


I prefer high-quality long-lasting furniture with classic design over low quality furniture with trendy design. For example, most Shaker chairs were made on an assembly line basis.

I prefer restaurants which are locally owned and run whether they are high-end or low-end. Unfortunately, quality is more variable in local places than it is at the chains.


I make both of those choices because I don't want to live in a disposable society where personal relationships and objects are used for a little while, then thrown away. I prefer to reward craftsmanship, and some of my best memories are of food made by craftsmen-chefs (most in France, where even a ham sandwich is an artisan object), but I can seldom afford to.


I hope that makes sense. It's a complex and charged issue.

Larry Edgerton
02-28-2009, 4:40 PM
Kelly, I wonder how far you actually take your claimed high and noble standards of where you, "Draw the line". I used to be a chef for a decade or so. I was very good at what I did and I worked in some pretty nice places up and down the West Coast. The places where I worked served excellent quality food and charged prices consistent with that quality. Yet, for some reason some people would decide to go to a cheaper place like Appleby's or some other corporate cookie cutter restaurant or even McDonald's. It sure didn't help our lunch or dinner business when another one of those slightly-better-than-fast-food places opened up nearby. They employ cooks without any special skills that work for less money and they don't use top notch ingredients. Hmmm...Starting to see the parallels here, Kelly?

So, when you go out to breakfast, lunch, or dinner do you always go out to the place where you support a true craftsman that serves the highest quality ingredients? Or do you sometimes draw that, "Line" of yours a little lower? Maybe you can save a few bucks, get it a little faster, make it a little more convenient and go for the trendy but cheap chain restaurant or maybe even hit up the fast food drive through. :eek: Yeah, that's what I thought. It sounds great to start preaching to everyone about your impeccably high standards but just how far do you actually carry that in your life? You may not eat out very often but if you ever have eaten at a less than top of the line restaurant then in essence you've also bought furniture from Ikea.

Some people just can't afford the best things in life all the time. Some people don't see the need to always strive for the best they can afford. I've never been to Ikea but from what it sounds like there are some guys on this forum who know what good furniture is and they feel the quality of Ikea isn't too bad after all. Yet there will always be someone claiming to have some sort of noble set of standards by which they live, sneering at the rest of us who don't. Well, the standards are noble until you ask them about how they spend the rest of their money...:rolleyes::p

Bruce

I made it through 2008 without doing business with any chains, with the exception of fuel, where we are at their mercy in my neighborhood. I have never bought a thing from WalMart, I eat at hole in the walls, and I order supplys from small companys, and I get better service because of it. It is a choice one can make, but I am only responsible for myself and the trail I leave behind.

I do what I do and I will not tell you what you should or should not do, and only ask the same.

I guess my question is why is a cheap furniture chain even being discussed at all on a forum that is dedicated to furthering the art of woodworking? Seems counterintuitive.

Steve Mellott
02-28-2009, 6:15 PM
Several months ago, my wife asked me to make her several shelving units for her sewing room. I carefully calculated the wood requirements and headed to the lumber yard. On the way, I decided to stop at IKEA. The IKEA cost was significantly less than the cost of my materials alone and I thought the quality was fairly good so I bought the IKEA shelves. It's not heirloom quality, but for a sewing room, its fine. (I also checked with the Sagulator to ensure that the shelves wouldn't sag over time.) I also learned that the local quilt shop has used IKEA shelves in a commercial setting for a number of years and have been very happy with the quality.

Since then, I've also bought several of their kitchen cabinet carcasses and have been very happy with those. The hardware on the IKEA cabinets seems to be better than the hardware included on the cabinets that were professionally installed in our home several years ago.

I've used my saved money to buy more "toys" for my new lathe and have used my saved time to focus on other aspects of woodworking that I really enjoy (pen turning, scrollsawing, etc.).

Regardless of how you feel about imports/American or quality/non-quality, IKEA does an excellent job understanding their customer base and then marketing to them. I know people who go to the IKEA cafeteria even when they don't plan to do any shopping in the store. I also know people who take out ot town visitors to "tour" the IKEA store even when they don't plan to buy anything. The store has done a very good job of building a loyal customer base.

Vic Damone
02-28-2009, 6:40 PM
I'm sure this isn't news to most of you but it may be worth a reread regarding any manufacture using this material.

"Glass LR, Connor TH, Theiss JC, Dallas CE, Matney TS.
Of the materials used in construction of buildings which can elute complex mixtures of organic compounds, products such as particle board are known to release formaldehyde into the indoor environment. We have employed a modification of the Ames Salmonella/microsome assay with both DNA repair-proficient and -deficient strains and determined that one such material, particle board, emitted mutagenic and genotoxic substances. The materials offgassing from the particle board demonstrated a dose-related response in both mutagenicity and toxicity. It was also observed that incubation at 37 degrees C produced a decrease in both endpoints which was related to time of incubation. In addition, detectable amounts of twelve other organic compounds were identified as offgassing from the incubated particle board.
PMID: 3520959 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]"

Charles P. Wright
03-01-2009, 12:24 AM
The stuff is built "just good enough" to sell, and sells cheaply, which works for some folks who have the need furnish a home but not the bank account, and god bless as it fills a marketing niche.
Either that or kids. If our kids draw on Ikea furniture or it gets destroyed from their abuse, there is no reason to be upset about it. If it was a piece of fine furniture that you spent lots of cash on, you are going to get upset.

Jeff Caskie
03-01-2009, 7:35 AM
Regardless of how you feel about imports/American or quality/non-quality, IKEA does an excellent job understanding their customer base and then marketing to them. I know people who go to the IKEA cafeteria even when they don't plan to do any shopping in the store. I also know people who take out ot town visitors to "tour" the IKEA store even when they don't plan to buy anything. The store has done a very good job of building a loyal customer base.

I agree 100%. Just ate there last night as a matter of fact (due in part to this thread). It is better to go on a weekday though, as it is very crowded on the weekend.... with lots of kids crying etc.

I am one who loves the 'look' of Ikea furniture... especially their kitchens. If I were to build a kitchen, I would model it after one of theirs. The contemporary/modern look is more my style and I think they do a great job at it. It is a great place to walk around and get ideas and I always take newcomers who have never been.

I understand why those who make a living building furniture and/or kitchens would not like to be compared to Ikea. However, I think that it would a great resource for them to gather ideas and find ways to improve upon. I could say the same about furniture stores however, I hate walking in those. Salesmen/women watch you enter, follow you around and stalk you until they can go in for the kill. I hate that and can barely last 15min in one of those.

I also walk the isles of Lowes and Home Depot all the time looking at things and getting 'ideas'. Many people hate those stores as well... but not me. I do wish there was a local Woodcraft I could walk, but it is a hike to go to one of those...

Kelly C. Hanna
03-02-2009, 11:54 PM
Kelly, I wonder how far you actually take your claimed high and noble standards of where you, "Draw the line". I used to be a chef for a decade or so. I was very good at what I did and I worked in some pretty nice places up and down the West Coast. The places where I worked served excellent quality food and charged prices consistent with that quality. Yet, for some reason some people would decide to go to a cheaper place like Appleby's or some other corporate cookie cutter restaurant or even McDonald's. It sure didn't help our lunch or dinner business when another one of those slightly-better-than-fast-food places opened up nearby. They employ cooks without any special skills that work for less money and they don't use top notch ingredients. Hmmm...Starting to see the parallels here, Kelly?

So, when you go out to breakfast, lunch, or dinner do you always go out to the place where you support a true craftsman that serves the highest quality ingredients? Or do you sometimes draw that, "Line" of yours a little lower? Maybe you can save a few bucks, get it a little faster, make it a little more convenient and go for the trendy but cheap chain restaurant or maybe even hit up the fast food drive through. :eek: Yeah, that's what I thought. It sounds great to start preaching to everyone about your impeccably high standards but just how far do you actually carry that in your life? You may not eat out very often but if you ever have eaten at a less than top of the line restaurant then in essence you've also bought furniture from Ikea.

Some people just can't afford the best things in life all the time. Some people don't see the need to always strive for the best they can afford. I've never been to Ikea but from what it sounds like there are some guys on this forum who know what good furniture is and they feel the quality of Ikea isn't too bad after all. Yet there will always be someone claiming to have some sort of noble set of standards by which they live, sneering at the rest of us who don't. Well, the standards are noble until you ask them about how they spend the rest of their money...:rolleyes::p


Bruce

Bruce...man you are sumpthin else with that attitude huh? Not only did you NOT even give me a chance to answer, but you haughtily assumed you were correct and answered for me....since I have the time, I'll bust your assumption wide open....might even get banned for this one, but here goes.

Maybe my post about Ikea wasn't a completely fair one since I've never been there. Didn't know that there was any real wood in the store. My perception of the store isn't good because of what I have seen from there in people's homes and that's been all junk. It was not directed at you in any way, but from your response I guess I hit a nerve.

I don't know how noble and I know I am nowhere near impeccable, but yes, I do live the dream. I spent 20+ years in the restaurant and bar biz. Worked at the Mansion in Dallas all the way down to Judge Roy Beans. I have worked in every star designation except 7. Spent over 6 years of that time as a chef myself in several small houses in Dallas. All were home owned. Worked in a chain twice in my life, both for very short stints.

I RARELY eat at chains anywhere...pretty much don't care for them. My usual haunts are places that have creative menus and those who have one or two units. My favorite steakhouse is in Rockwall, TX...a place called Culpeppers. They own the place next door [The Oar House].

I never go to McDonald's and am not a huge fan of fast food. Last week I ate at five different restaurants for lunch, none were fast foods and none were nationwide chains. I did meet Jim Becker at a Salt Grass once....it wasn't that bad at all, but I don't frequent them.

It goes further. I have never bought a new vehicle or a new house. I own mostly vintage stereo equipment with the exception of a 2001 Sony AV system. Even my speakers are 20+ year old Infinitys. I listen to mostly albums when it matters although I do have a ton of concert DVD's. There ya go....GUILTY! I buy old albums off the web and the DVD's I get come mostly from Amazon.

My house is a 109 year old veteran without a level floor anywhere. My daily driver is a 1970 Chevy truck and the playtoy I am building is a 1967. Most of my truck parts come from guys like me who rebuild them and trade parts. I cook at home mostly from two vintage smokers...one that is home built.

My bedroom is filled with my own rustic cedar furniture and the rest of the house is all used stuff that is very well made. Not one ounce of particleboard anywhere.

I prefer to help out the local heros over giving money to a chain store, but I do break the rules when it comes to lumber and supplies. I buy most of my decking, etc from Home Depot [large gasp huh Bruce?]. Yep, I do so because their treated pine is more stable than any yards' in town....and less expensive.

I buy tons of old tools...none of the staionary tools in my shop were new when bougtht, but the few I do buy new...Amazon again.

So there you have it. I guess before you go shootin' your mouth off again about what I do ya might better ask first, you might be surprised. Your response smacks of a personal attack that was totally uncalled for, especially since you don't know me. Your assumption did little more than show your butt in public.

Darius Ferlas
03-03-2009, 12:23 AM
I like IKEA for the reusability of their furniture. About 10 years ago I furnished 2 bedrooms, a living room and a dining room with their furniture and I liked it. Functional, and reasonably well built. I moved twice since, and little got out of alignment. Whatever did was easilly fixed with one of their hex bits.

Some pieces were disappointing (hollow structure bookshelves or table top venneers). But at least I didn't spend a fortune and while most of the furniture is still in very good shape, if needed I have plenty of nice beech veneer material for drawer boxes, jigs and such.

Most mass produced European furniture is very similar to IKEA, but despite my overall satisfaction with it (considering the bang for the buck), I would rate IKEA as low to mid range quality in EU, i.e I've seen much better quality. It certainly is not as highly thought of in some of the countries where some of their products are manufactured.

Bruce Benjamin
03-03-2009, 1:27 AM
Bruce...man you are sumpthin else with that attitude huh? Not only did you NOT even give me a chance to answer, but you haughtily assumed you were correct and answered for me....since I have the time, I'll bust your assumption wide open....might even get banned for this one, but here goes.

Maybe my post about Ikea wasn't a completely fair one since I've never been there.

Uhhh...What's your point again? I didn't get that far...;):D But I do wonder what star designation goes up to 7 stars. I didn't think such a designation existed. Would that be in the AAA guide?;) "Yeah, but this one goes to 11." :D:D:D Take it easy, Kelly, which should be easy for you considering the impeccable life's resume you listed for me.:) I guess I should go back and read it since you went to all of that trouble and all...;):D

Bruce

Keith Outten
03-03-2009, 8:00 AM
I suggest that you guys turn this conversation around, that is all the warning you are going to receive.
.

Alex Shanku
03-03-2009, 8:31 AM
I guess my question is why is a cheap furniture chain even being discussed at all on a forum that is dedicated to furthering the art of woodworking? Seems counterintuitive.


I agree. I just dont see the point. We all know that the quality of this furniture is lower than the stuff you can build yourself. Its cheap in price and many people want that. Not a "mystery" at all. Pretty clear, actually.

Why isnt this in the "Off-Topic" forum?

Tony Bilello
03-03-2009, 9:49 AM
by letting the woodworkers know where the market is going. It's not just cheap furniture, there already is tons of cheap furniture manufacturers. It's also the style. People buy what they like. They are attracted to the 'look' with quality coming in second.
I am only a part-time furniture maker these days and the work requested is no different than when I had a large shop and was full time. Some people want new and different. As far as traditional style furniture goes, there are tons of manufacturers from the very cheap to the very expensive.
I dont think this post should be considered "off-topic". If it goes that direction, many members on here would not see it. I generally do not frequent the "off Topic" forum and many others also do not.

Chris Padilla
03-03-2009, 10:41 AM
John, I don't understand it, either. My experience with Ikea...since they first came to the US with their first store near here, and with the exception of a single item, has been very positive. There low-end stuff is, well, low end. But the quality at the other end of the spectrum is quite good. And it's not all "particle board", either. My daughter's dresser is solid pine. The only non-pine component is the 1/4" MDF back panel. Bringing it home made my Highlander smell of pine for nearly a week. I have leather love seats and a matching chair that have been in service since the early 1990s and look nearly new outside of a few small scratches.

Their kitchen cabinet systems are extremely well engineered...the only downside is the lack of careful matching of lumber in doors and drawer fronts, but they have metal Blum drawers as well as Blumotion. The hanging rail system for upper cabinets is wonderful and with the advantage over a French cleat that you don't have to drop the cabinet slightly to allow for the fit over the cleat...nice when you don't want to do a crown molding.

My office desk system has been with me since the early 1990s, too. It also looks nearly new.

Do I consider them a purveyor of fine furniture? No. But I'll shop there for basics and "immediate needs" before I'd patronize a lot of the "regular" chain furniture stores which are truly selling inferior stuff for way too much money.

Ikea is pretty cool, I must admit. It is an interesting "warehouse" setup; the organization of their products is nice. It is a clean, well run business and I can understand the allure when the prices seem "too good to be true."

We have one item in our house from Ikea and it is a shelving unit that lives in my wife's sewing room. It fits well, works well, and I suspect it'll last quite a long time being in there. One thing Ikea has provided us is design ideas. We got the Tansu (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=92396) idea from Ikea!! We saw something like it there she wanted to buy, I said, "No way, I can build something nicer" and such the design was born.

They also have wonderful, cheap (think Costco) food: hot dogs, cinammon rolls, etc.

Keith Outten
03-03-2009, 11:37 AM
Sorry Tony I meant keep it friendly.

Cody Colston
03-03-2009, 1:24 PM
Why isnt this in the "Off-Topic" forum?

That's exactly what I was thinking. This thread has nothing to do with woodworking or power tools but rather, it's about the quality of Ikea furniture.

I think I'll start a thread here on who you like better...Ginger or Mary Ann. I could mention the Bamboo huts to make it woodworking related. ;)

and yes, I know that Bamboo is a grass and not a wood...

Chris Padilla
03-03-2009, 3:50 PM
Why isnt this in the "Off-Topic" forum?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

;)

Dennis Peacock
03-03-2009, 3:53 PM
That's exactly what I was thinking. This thread has nothing to do with woodworking or power tools but rather, it's about the quality of Ikea furniture.

I think I'll start a thread here on who you like better...Ginger or Mary Ann. I could mention the Bamboo huts to make it woodworking related. ;)

and yes, I know that Bamboo is a grass and not a wood...

Hey Cody, That all depends on how you look at it and what product. You can get Bamboo flooring ya know. ;)

Now to keep the thread on topic....Ikea? Never bought any and I don't like buying furniture from "furniture stores" any way. Too much "stuff" in the stores that I highly classify as "junk". I had a furniture shop owner try to sell me a "solid cherry" bedroom suit.....until I proved to him that it was a cherry veneer on top of particleboard......then the tune changed to "well it's solid cherry veneer." Nuff said. :(

Chris Padilla
03-03-2009, 4:01 PM
I think I'll start a thread here on who you like better...Ginger or Mary Ann....

Ginger...end of thread. :)

Brian Effinger
03-03-2009, 6:35 PM
Ginger...end of thread. :)
Ginger and Mary Ann together ;) Now thats the end :)

John Schreiber
03-03-2009, 6:41 PM
Ginger...end of thread. :)
You've got to be kidding. Mary Ann of course.

But the reason this is woodworking related came up just today. I'd been sketching out a plan for a platform bed with a friend of the family. I'd build it, she'd paint it and pay for materials. We came up with an idea she liked, then I priced the lumber and it came to about $160. She then told me that she could get exactly what she wanted, already painted at Ikea for $180.

The tools connection is that I want to hit something with a hammer at this point.