Need advice

[Chris Rae]

I have been turning about six months and I need some advice. I have been thinking about buying some micro-tools because I want to make some small birdhouse ornaments and some very delicate finials and things like that. I have regular sized tools but they seem too big to do small delicate work. What do some of you use for small delicate things? Are the micro-tools worth spending the money on? If so, which ones would some of you recommend? Thanks for the help.
Chris

[Gary Max]

We use micro tools for detail work on mini's-----but as far as the turning goes---a 3/8 spindle gouge and a 3/4 skew.

[Tamara Brown]

Wow, great minds think a like...I also want to know about the micro tools!

[David Drickhamer]

I use a set of micro chisels for PSI http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LCAN8MD.html
But more often than not my go to tools are home made. I make some of my tools from allen wrenches and dental tools. Making your own tools can be half the fun.
Dave

[David Walser]

...I have regular sized tools but they seem too big to do small delicate work. What do some of you use for small delicate things? ...Chris, Alan Lacer starts out some of his demos by turning some very small tops with his large (1 3/8") skew. The point, small sized work does not automatically require small sized tools. You should use the largest tool you can comfortably handle AND that will comfortably fit in the area to be turned. Larger tools tend to flex less than smaller tools and their extra heft makes them easier for most of us to control.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Chris - so far I have used what tools I have on hand and have found myself limited as to what I can do as far as details because of the thickness of the skew or overall bulk of a standard size turning tool. I plan on making some finials to go with hollow forms and have been thinking about the ones David listed or this 5 piece set. I haven't made my mind up yet but will more than likely pick one of these sets.

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LCMINI2.html

[Gordon Seto]

Unless you are turning ultra miniatures, regular size tools would be fine. I think it has to do with tool grind, and access to detailed area.
A full size tool allow you to reach over the tool rest further without chattering. Try a detail gouge (which is a spindle gouge with very shallow flute). A steep angle with heel grind back allow you to reach deep into tight area.
I find the detail gouge is more useful than micro tool in turning small objects, the tail stock and head stock would prevent the tool rest getting close. A small tool would flex when extended over the tool rest. A detail gouge has more steel remaining and therefore more rigid.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o83/gbseto/Detailgougegrind003.jpg

[Curt Fuller]

I have several homemade tools that are pretty small and work well on Christmas ornaments, finials, etc. One is a 1/4" skew. It's made from a piece of 1/4" HSS drill rod. You can buy it on Enco's website.http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=383-7015&PMPXNO=941073&PARTPG=INLMK3 I just grind the end to a flat taper and sharpen it like any other skew. Other than that I use a Thompson 3/8" spindle gouge ground with a long fingernail grind.

For hollowing small ornaments, birdhouses, etc I use several curved scrapers made from allen wrenches. I just make a handle for them and then grind most of the 90 degree angle off the wrench leaving about 1/2" to use as the cutter.

1st pic is of an allen wrench hollower, 2nd is the small 1/4" round skew.

[Steve Campbell]

Hi Chris. I bought a set of small tools from Woodcraft a while back. I thought they would be just the thing for pens and small turnings. The trouble is you have to have the tool rest up so close or you get chatter. Also I don't know how you sharpen your tools. I use a Wolverine jig and all my small tools are too small to grind on the wolverine. I have a belt sander I can sharpen them on but it takes me a lot longer and I really have to work to keep the right angle on them. I hardly ever use them.
I would recommend regular tools and just take light cuts.

Steve

[Gordon Seto]

I don't know how you sharpen your tools.

Steve,
Try what Bonnie Klein recommends. Turn off the grinder, allow the momentum of the grinder coasting down to grind the small tools. Use very light touch and use free hand grinding.

[Chris Rae]

Thanks much for all the input and advice, I appreciate it. You've given me some food for thought, and brought out some things I haven't considered.
Thanks again,
Chris

[Bernie Weishapl]

I turn lots of birdhouses and the tools I use are a 3/8" spindle gouge, 1/4" round skew, 5/8" skew, and I keep a 3/8" bowl gouge handy. Unless you are going to make micro mini birdhouses, boxes, etc. I don't see a need for micro tools.

[Dean Thomas]

I'm with Gordon on the use of pretty much regular sized tools.

If you're doing birdhouse ornaments where the body of the house is under 1-1/2" in diameter but more than 3/4", standard tools will do you well. You might want to pick up a nice square scraper to make sure it doesn't flap in the breeze when extended out an inch plus over the tool rest.

Small tools are not always fun to use. Gouges, anyhow. When I first started, I bought a set of very four small gouges, unhandled. Largest was 3/16" and they went down to something like 3/32". I'm a big guy and turning with these teeny tools even for teeny projects is exactly like trying to turn with a skinny needle. I can sharpen them fine, but getting the speed right so that the tool cuts without chatter is a heck of a challenge. Not worth the time to me. Scrapers out of extra length Allen wrenches is a wiser use of money and time, IMHO.

See if you can lay hands on Dick Sing's birdhouse ornament book. He does use a scraper, a skew, and his favorite 3/8" spindle gouge for virtually every house he makes. I've played a bit and made a couple of half-scale ornaments that were really pretty cute and rather dainty. 3/8" spindle gouge and my little 1/4" round skew. Plus a couple of Forstner bits for starting the innards. On the "full size" ornaments, same tools! I think I could make some 1/4 sizers and still use the 3/8" spindle, maybe move to a detail gouge of the same size. Maybe.

I don't have any pix of the half-scale ornaments, but there is a pic of the full-scale ornaments elsewhere on SMC with birds eye maple, and another with spalted maple attached here. These were my Christmas 2007 ornaments/presents. Hope it will help in this discussion. Body of thinner birdhouse is about 1.25" wide for reference purposes.

OTHER ORNAMENT (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost.php?p=729227&postcount=11)

[Jeff Nicol]

Chris, I posted pics of a bunch of my mini tools a few times. If you go to the sticky at the beginnig of the forum there is one for members albums. Go in my albums and there is a picture of them. I use just about anything to make a tool out of.

Jeff

[Steve Campbell]

Thanks for the tip on sharpening Gordon. I will give it a try. Also as long as I'm talking at ya, I went to the Nova site you posted a while back and ordered one of the Nova chucks. I have one just like it so it was nice to get another at that great price. I couldn't believe how quickly I got it. Just wanted to say thank you very much.

Steve

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I got a free set of Wi--on micro tools with my mini lathe. I would suggest to save whatever the cost is. As other have posted, normal sized tools work. I tried to use them and all I get is chatter. I have a Tormek and sharpened and honed them, getting no reduction in chatter. Maybe a better quality set would help, but even at free, I was disappointed. I even though of re-gifting, but I'm not that cold hearted. LOL. But, it does come in a nice box and collects dust just fine.

I do have a small diamond shaped mini chisel that I cannot remember what it's name is or where I got it from. That is quite handy for small detail work. Someone else may have a name for that diamond shaped chisel.

[Jeff Nicol]

Steve,
Try what Bonnie Klein recommends. Turn off the grinder, allow the momentum of the grinder coasting down to grind the small tools. Use very light touch and use free hand grinding.
I use the belt sander cutting away from me for better control for grinding. Then just a diamond card to touch them up when needed. This is mostly for the tiny ones I use for hollowing 1:12 scale mini's.

Think small!

Jeff