OMG - Not Another Dust Collector Question

[Brad Wood]

Hi,

I've read through a lot of posts here regarding dust collection. All I can say is wow, what a mess of options, theories, and opinions.
So many variables, where to start.

I am still at the stage of trying to understand the differences between the various designs, and I think I am starting to figure that out.

My shop is a garage which is shared by a car, motorcycle, craft area for LOML, regular house storage, and my wood stuff... so, it is a multipurpose room and I am limited on how much I get to use.

I know it is better to buy bigger than I expect to need. I don't have a lot of space in the shop, I don't want to build a shelter outside to house the system, I don't have 220 readily available without doing some electrical (which I don't know how to do comfortably).

Reality is, I need something small... likely something that I would connect to each machine as needed rather than have a network of pipe in the garage running to each machine. (a lot of my tools are, or will be, on rollers so I move them around based on what I am doing and the size of the piece I am working with).
Lack of $$$ is another reality.
I am a hobbyist that probably spends about 8 hours a weekend, maybe twice a month, working in my shop area.

So, while I realize most of you would rather go bigger and buy once, I would rather just get something that fits my current need/space, and if I get a big boy shop some day I can always upgrade. I
Right now I connect my Craftsman shop vac with a 2.5 hose to my table say using a 4" to 2.5" reducer. I don't get a whole lot of suck time before the filter is clogged.

So, I've attached a few pictures....
Am I better off continuing to use the shop vac and get something like the Onieda dust deputy, or building the Theil design?
Would I be better served at getting one of these little guys from Grizz or Rocker and then putting one of these homemade cyclone jobs in the middle?

Harbor Frieght has similar unit as the Grizz for a bit cheaper, but I hear it is a lot louder, should I stay away?

Thanks guys.

edit: oh yeah, up until this week, I only connected the shop vac to the TS... but now I have a jointer, planer, and band saw.

[Matt Benton]

I am in you're exact same situation (minus the motorcycle). My shop shares a 2 car garage with a car, storage and lawn equipment.

If you have a jointer and planer (and a TS, for that matter), you need to forget about anything that comes from the factory with a 2.5" inlet.

Are your machines going to be stationary, or mobile? If mobile, you can cut corners on DC performance, to some extent, by having a single, short run and wheeling your machines to the dc whenever you use them. If you want your machines stationary (which is not easy in your situation), you'd need a better DC setup.

Here is what I came up with. $300 gets me all the cfm I need for any one machine...

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=105272

[Don Bullock]

Brad, I hear your pain. My advice I'm sure will make Bill What's His Name (the DC guru) cringe, but I'll throw it out anyway. If you actually work in your shop less that 16 hours a month you don't need a sophisticated DC system. Your ShopVac should be enough, but I would recommend the Dust Deputy to eliminate the clogged filters problem. I must add, however, that this "system" will not keep up with your planer. A planer just puts out too much in a short period of time. Good luck.

[Joel Earl]

Oh Brad - she is a confusing and garbled topic isn't she:)

I'm tossing out just one thought - why not a 110 upright DC w/ bags....used one or even the HF one? Keep the cost low with either - but yep, prolly a bit more than the options you outlined. At least this would be able to keep up to the planer. That HF goes on sale alot for around $149-179. A used unit or similar you can usually get for less than that.

I ran that HF for a long time, rolled around as needed, and it served me real well. No it wasn't perfect but a lot more suck than a shopvac or similar and not that much more in cost - especially when the extra benefits get figured in.

Okay - confused the mess again didn't I .... sorry. Ones budget and realistic needs are first and foremost and you know what they are. Matt and Don also dead on for certain applications too. Best advice any of us can offer is don't break the bank and don't be afraid to make a mistake. I think it better to screw up smaller than bigger. The $$$ pain will be less;)
Good luck in this goofy DC decision making process

edit - the 3 you show are all loud. To my ears it doesn't make much difference which one is on. I'd look at the HF over the Grizz offering. The small HF is decent for what it is - friend uses today nearby. I had the Grizz and it had no more power than his HF. Noise difference - not sure if there's much but it's been awhile since I had that Grizz so my ears/hearing has prolly changed too

[Brad Wood]

Table saw pretty much has its own spot, and the router table doesn't move, but the BS, Jointer, and Planer, will be mobile so I can move them against the wall out of the way when not in use.
Matt, interesting pictures but I don't think I can afford that space at the moment... not gonna sell the Harley, so I need to work around it.

Do any of you guys know anything about that Rockler or Grizz unit I posted pics of? Rockler has a 4" hose that goes from 4' to 21', it seems like if I had the DC motor anywhere in my space, that hose could travel to any unit.

[Brad Wood]

I might actually have space for this - its the G8027 and runs 110

is this what you are talking about Joel?Does the HF one have better specs?

edit: well, cfm wise the HF sucks more apparently. but the footprint of this unit seems to be more fitting to one spot I can think of where it could go

[Joel Earl]

The Grizz - yes. See my post above.

The Rockler somewhat interests me but not cheap and seems to me maybe the hose dragging around would be issue in time. I might be wrong...

Maybe someone who owns it can offer more --- I just struggle with hoses gliding all the time on a floor. And a coiled hose usually doesn't stay springy to long if my garden hoses have been indictive of them in general.

[Joel Earl]

Yep - that's the one in Grizz flavor
Look at the HF one too.... over on Woodnet forum a HF Gem. It's a solid unit for the money - the bags are not great but once they get coated a bit they are better. They can also be replaced at a later date if desired.
They've sold a ton of them for a reason - it fits a certain buyer and need. Single tool at a time it does fine

[Matt Benton]

Brad,

My setup has a smaller footprint than the Griz you're showing.

My garage holds the following:

Car
Dust Collector
J/P combo
MM20 BS
Jet BS
2' x 6' workbench
DP
2' x 4' router table
shelving
lawn equipment

I save alot of space by stacking my machines together, then rolling them to the DC when I use them (of course, the car comes out first)...

[Joel Earl]

Brad and Matt -- Matt has a real similar setup to what I had when I tossed my original HF up on top of a home made cyclone body. His is nicer - footprints similar in size.

He's onto an idea if the budget, etc works Brad. Now the water is real muddy - I'm taking the higher ground and looking at it swirling around ..... :D

[Tom Adger]

Go to www.clearvuecyclones.com (http://www.clearvuecyclones.com). Look under product info/videos. Watch the cyclone mini. I bought one several months ago. It handles my jointer and planer. I was tired of continuously cleaning out my shop vac filter. Now, nothing in the shopvac. It all goes into the cyclone drum. Whether you buy the mini, or the powered version, either Clearvue or Oneida, be sure to get the cyclone version. It keeps the filter clean.

[Rob Russell]

Using a vacuum cleaner as a DC is the wrong move.

Brad - given your current situation, buy a DC on rollers and move it from machine to machine as you work. Make sure that you can get a bag that filters to 0.1 microns and that the DC has the blower capacity to move air through a bag that's that tight.

[Sonny Edmonds]

Well, there's lots of ways to skin a cat.
If you think you will stick with a shop vac, and are tired of emptying it every 5 minutes, try a collector barrel in front of it.
But know that a shop vac pulls some mean inches of water pressure, so you'll want something like this set up. (Click on picture below)
This barrel now lives as the drum for my cyclone system. But a 55 gallon separator ahead of your shop vac gives a huge amount of chip collection to your shop vac.
If you are going to get a bonified dust collector, get one with a pleated filter at least.
Dust collection is probably the most important tool in your shop. Because it cleans up after all the tools in your shop.
Scrimping on it will only lead to more expenses later upgrading a mistake.

[Rob Russell]

Sonny,

For a machine like one of the 12" "lunchbox" planers, a shop vac is the wrong solution.

A shop vac pulls high static pressure but low CFM.
A DC pulls lower static presure but much higher CFM.

The CFM in combination with the static pressure is what is needed to properly clear chips and dust from a tool.

A shop vac is fine for a router, but you need something a bit larger for your general purpose machines.

[Ken Harrod]

One of the big concerns is the fine dust particles that can be a cause of various lung issues (depending on the wood you use, how long you are exposed, blah, blah, blah).

The main concern for most of us is the fine dust covering all our other stuff, such as the motorcycle, car, wife's stuff etc... If you don't do it very often and are just looking to help keep the garage clean, one of the cheap 2 bag systems will do you justice, IMO. I would roll it out the door, though, so any fine dust particles get blown outside and not all over your other stuff in your garage. Yeah, that might adversely effect your heat/ac as you are sucking 1100 cfm from the garage and blowing it outside, but it helps keep the place clean, reduces the noise, and will help you out with the health concerns.

Then, one day when you get bored, build your own cyclone, just cause you can.