Picking a Dust collector

[Matt Barber]

Hi guys,

So I've been reading up a little bit on different dust collectors and what most of you have and I'm wondering what size I will need in terms of HP and CFM. I don't have a terribly big shop 24' x 12' so it's physical size does matter a bit as my shop is filling up fast.

I have a General 10 Cabinet saw, and a sears radial arm saw. I'm looking at getting either the grizzly GO457 or GO513x2 bandsaw and I'm wondering what size of dust collector I will need for these size tools and for the size of my shop.

I'm having a hard time justifing to myself spending more than 500 dollars on a dust collection system but maybe its just because I don't understand the importance of one. I see a lot of people get 2 HP dust collectors that are between 500-1000 dollars and I would personally rather spend that money on getting a better bandsaw or tool. I've never had dust collection before so maybe I don't know what I'm missing so if you guys got any insite that would be awesome.

I'm currently looking at something in the range of the Grizzly G1028z 1-1/2 HP collector with 1300CFM or the General Int. 1HP collector with 750CFM. Do you guys think this will be sufficient. If I go with the the 2HP General its pushing $600 Canadian and thats starting to get kind of steep in my mind. One last thing; how much should I factor in price wish for all the fixed piping for the system?

Matt

[David Christopher]

Matt, with a shop that size and filling up fast I would look into one of the quieter more powerfull shop vacs. some of the ones they have now will do the job that you are looking to do and more. DCs take a fair amount of space if it is going inside

[Leo Graywacz]

A 1 to 2HP collector is good for one, maybe 2 machines at a time. The 2-3HP is good enough to start a ducting system to each machine. If you don't mind the woodchips on the floor and dust in the air then you don't need the collector. If you are working for a living them you cannot do without one. It is a time saver, so much less cleanup. It keeps the ships out of the cutter area which will give a better cut and keep the tooling sharper longer. I had a 1 1/2HP single bag collector and it was a pain to switch from machine to machine. I often neglected to do it. I had to clean out the tablesaw because it was stuffed, chips on the floor, always. Took a lot of time to clean up and it looked unprofessional.

[Matt Barber]

I'm definately looking at a fixed duct system if I go with a dust collector at all. I don't have the room to move a dust collector around and hook it up everytime I use a machine. On that note though I will only be operating 1 machine at a time. I was also reading on Onieda's website about ductwork sizing and I'm not an HVAC guy but if I increase the duct size to 5" or 6" for my dead run down my shop and then decrease to 5" or 4" flexable pipe when I connect to the different saws it should keep my CFM up enough so that I have sufficent suction without having to go with a larger dust collector. I hope that line of reasoning makes sense.

Matt

[David Christopher]

Matt, I have the 1029Z from grizzly and I like it really well. I think it would fit your needs

[Leo Graywacz]

I have a medium size shop and use an Oneida 2 1/2HP cyclone. I have my main trunk mostly at 6" and my down feeds are all 5" until the entry of the machine where there is a 5" to 4" reducer. I can usually use 2 machines at a time. Because my planer is at the end of the line I usually use this alone. You have probably seen this pic before, but I'll post it anyway.

http://fototime.com/34B3BAF32E6CC7E/standard.jpg

[Kevin Davis]

Matt,

I have a small shop, 12' x 25', with a BS, TS and J/P combo all hooked up to a G0548 2 HP Canister Dust Collector with dedicated duct to each with the shut off flus. It has really helped reduce the dust and chips and I would do it all again. It filters to 1 Micron, has the hard canister on top. It looks like it is $524 delivered.

[Rick Fisher]

A dust collector should be the most used tool in the shop.

Regardless of what large piece of machinery your using, the dust collector should/could be chugging away in the background.

There are tools like Drum sanders which wont operate well at all without adequate dust collection. They will clog up, burn ... possibly even become a fire hazard. (okay.. with me running it :rolleyes:).

I wouldnt get anything less than 3hp with at least a 15" impeller. It will match your needs as your machinery inventory grow. Oneida has a 2.5hp which would be a good choice as well.

Another huge asset is a wireless remote control. Its something I really miss on my newer machine.

[Sonny Edmonds]

Matt,
Dust collection can be one of the most important tools in a shop, actually.
If you are choking to death, and blowing MDF boogers, it won't be much fun to be in your shop, now will it? :rolleyes:
12 X 24' is kind of a snug fit. I don't usually recommend a corner collector set up, but it might be best for your shop. I usually recommend a central location so the system has no long distance runs to draw on.
What you need is the best collection system you can afford. And to keep your hoses as short as you can, and your pipes (S&D) as close as you can to your machines.
Use blast gates to control the draw of the system to only the tool you are using.
Jet makes a still highly reliable collector (http://www.amazon.com/708626RCK-Horsepower-Canister-Collector-230-Volt/dp/B00064NG2O/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1235533027&sr=1-4) that uses a canister filter on top. But anymore, many have followed suit on that configuration.
Think about it. Then think about it, again.
If you go cheap at the onset, you will likely be replacing things further on down the line.
If you spend more now, you may never have to spend more again.
Tools are a very important aspect of your shop.
And a good collection system is probably one of the most important tools. Because it will service all the others. ;)
If you can possibly upgrade your thoughts to a Cyclone System, you would not want later on for more. :)

[glenn bradley]

My 1HP unit could not keep up with my G0513X but, band saws are notoriously difficult to catch dust on. My 2HP cyclone does an adequate job on the BS and really kicks on my TS, RT and other tools. The 1HP now serves the jointer and planer only and does quite well.

[Jack Ellis]

I just came home with a well used but serviceable 3 HP dust collector for my new shop (under construction). Paid a song for the DC and all the ducting I'll ever need.

However, I've probably taken three years off my life. This unit came from a woodworking school that's closing and since I know the seller, I stuck around for a few hours to help him dismantle the place.

There was fine dust everywhere, even though he had two of these DCs in his shop. It's years and years of accumulated fine dust that coated everything. I've probably inhaled a pound of the stuff.

Spend on a dust collector, good filter bags and an air cleaner. If today was indication of what I can expect in an enclosed shop that gets reasonable use, I'd be happy to spend ten times as much.

[Joe Jensen]

Matt, as you can see, this question will get answers that range from "I've been doing this as a pro for 30 years and I never have any problems" to "Any exposure to particulates is a gigantic risk to your health and you need a 5HP min collector and giant pipes everywhere."

I recently visited the a commercial shop where the owner was selling everything after 30 years. He had a really small Delta dust collector that looked newer than anything else in the shop. When I asked about it, he said that he only bought it to keep the city inpector happy. Hard to see how he worked in that place, 2" - 12" of fine dust EVERYWHERE.

In life for most of us everything is a tradeoff, time, money, space, comfort, safety, etc. I have been an avid hobbiest for 30 years. I didn't have any dust collection system until 4 years ago. I bought one because I use one of the 3 stalls in my garage to actually park a car, and I was tired of spending 30 min with a shop vac cleaning after every time in the shop. I would want to go spend 20 or 30 min in the shop after work, but wouln't because I dreaded the cleanup.

I personally think the Festool sander with good shop vac was a much more important purchase for my health than the dust collector. I find the dust collector to be convenient, and it seems to get most, but I mostly work with the garage doors open so I never had that much in the air. But with sanding, that was another story. The Festool solved that problem.

I have a 19.6 foot by 30 foot 3 car garage for a shop. I am more space limited than money limited and I find the 2HP Oneida fits well, and it does a good job. If I had the space, I'd get a Felder RL160 or an equivalent high static pressure system to increase CFMs through the relatively small ports possible with most machines.

If I were in a small shop like yours, I'd start with a good vac like a Fein or Festool and I'd buy a Festool 150/3 sander. I dust collector will take a ton of space. If you do a dust collector, the portables with bags take twice the floor space, go with a Cyclone. If you do a stationary, keep in mind that the duct, fittings, ports, and gates can really add up. I think I have more in those parts than in the collector itself.

[Rod Sheridan]

As I got older, I looked back on the instances in my life where I bought something inexpensive (ie considered price instead of future requirements) and realized that I had wasted a lot of money on upgrades.

The last dust collector I purchased was an Oneida 1.5HP cyclone that is the best equipment purchase I've ever made.

Take a good long look at your shop requirements, and buy a much better unit than you need right now.

Forget about buying your first collector, buy your last one now.

Regards, Rod.

[Rick Moyer]

As I got older, I looked back on the instances in my life where I bought something inexpensive (ie considered price instead of future requirements) and realized that I had wasted a lot of money on upgrades.

The last dust collector I purchased was an Oneida 1.5HP cyclone that is the best equipment purchase I've ever made.

Take a good long look at your shop requirements, and buy a much better unit than you need right now.

Forget about buying your first collector, buy your last one now.

Regards, Rod.


This is really good advice and something we probably all have done. Unfortunately, buying the last anything usually comes at a higher price point than one could afford at the time, so we compromise in order to get what we feel we need now. If I had waited for the table saw I wanted I wouldn't have a jointer; if I waited for the jointer I wanted I wouldn't have a bandsaw, etc. BUT, the money lost on buying, then selling later, MIGHT be close to what you would have spent anyway, who knows? That something each one of us has to evaluate for ourselves. The smart thing I guess would be to borrow what you need once and never change your tools, but it seems there is always something bigger and better coming along. Does your TS have a riving knife? How many folks have gone from a Unisaw or PM66 to a Sawstop?!! Does your "lifetime" bandsaw have enough HP and resaw for you now, and does it have a footbrake? I guess we all have to decide what's best for us at the time and go from there.

[David Romano]

I have to suggest what I own, Total cost less than 600 dollars

2 hp Jet DC 1200 for $429
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=19777

or
http://www.cpojettools.com/products/710700bk.html?ref=froogle710700bk


with a cartrige filter from Wynn Environmantal for $103 http://www.wynnenv.com/35A_series_cartridge_kit.htm

plus build yourself a baffle designed by Phil Thien

see
http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=756834#poststop

and
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=755146#poststop



David

[chet jamio]

Short answer:

Do what David just suggested or buy the Grizzly G0548 and add a Phil Thien baffle.
http://grizzly.com/products/2-HP-Canister-Dust-Collector/G0548


Long answer:


I'm definately looking at a fixed duct system if I go with a dust collector at all. I don't have the room to move a dust collector around and hook it up everytime I use a machine.
To work as intended, a fixed duct system needs a 2hp DC. A 1.5 might do an okay job, but the price jump for 33% more hp is typically small ($20 more for Grizzly, $30 less for Jet). Another option is use a long piece of flex with quick disconnects at each tool. Most people who go this route find that it’s a pain to keep moving the hose and often don’t move it for quick cuts. Fixed duct is the way to go.

Once you’ve accepted that you’re getting a 2hp or bigger, the next step is to decide single stage or cyclone. Either should have a canister filter. The “buy your last tool first” is a nice slogan, but not practical for most of us. However, your first DC should have a cartridge filter. Be prepared to spend at least that much. I ended up upgrading my "2 micron" bag filter with a Wynn filter. It looks reasonable with the $103 price tag, but it was near $200 after shipping. It’s cheaper to get the canister from the start.

Back to the single stage versus cyclone question. Given the same hp motor and cartridge filter, a single stage will flow more CFM. The main benefit of a cyclone is not having to clean the filter. Sure, it allows you to dump blocks of metal into the ductwork without it contacting the impeller, but that’s an odd thing to desire. The cyclone body typically adds about 3 inH2O of resistance. Even if you only clean your single stage canister filter once a year, it will never add that much flow resistance, especially if you add a baffle. You can ignore the cleaning benefits, they don’t add up to better dust collection. Also, a dirty filter does a better job of filtering. So a single stage will flow better and have similar filtering. For those on a budget, once you find that they are half the money, it's an easy choice.


On that note though I will only be operating 1 machine at a time. I was also reading on Onieda's website about ductwork sizing and I'm not an HVAC guy but if I increase the duct size to 5" or 6" for my dead run down my shop and then decrease to 5" or 4" flexable pipe when I connect to the different saws it should keep my CFM up enough so that I have sufficent suction without having to go with a larger dust collector. I hope that line of reasoning makes sense.
For duct sizing, think of designing roads for cars. Operating one machine at a time is like being the only car in existence. Why would you ever need a 6 lane highway? If a single lane is enough for a single car, adding more lanes doesn’t help. If you’re designing roads for a city with multiple cars (several machines running at once), then you need to have multi-lane highways where the individual roads come together. In your case with only one car, there’s no benefit to having different size roads (ducting) for different parts of your drive. However, there are some negatives (FPM and/or CFM reduction, cost, complexity). The philosophy of reducing duct size as the run progresses is fine for big shops with multiple machines running, but it has no place in a one-machine-at-a-time home shop. All your ducting should be the same size. Whatever that size is will be determined by your DC. With a 2hp machine, it should be 6”.

[Matt Barber]

This is all awesome advice guys. I hope you'll bear with me, I've got one more clarifing question. I've noticed that there seems to be about 3 different designs in DC's. Whats the difference between the DC's with bags, canasters, or cyclones and what makes one better than the other? It seem slike the cyclones, say from onieda, or on the top end of the scale and the bags are on the bottom.

Matt

[Joe Jensen]

This is all awesome advice guys. I hope you'll bear with me, I've got one more clarifing question. I've noticed that there seems to be about 3 different designs in DC's. Whats the difference between the DC's with bags, canasters, or cyclones and what makes one better than the other? It seem slike the cyclones, say from onieda, or on the top end of the scale and the bags are on the bottom.

Matt

Their are really two main differences, with cyclone and without. When the filter (bag or pleated) gets dust in it, the airflow decreases. The specs you read for nearly every machine (except the European rated machines) are with brand new filters with no dust. I've read that after a little use, the actual CFMs drop as much as 50%. The cyclone in a system removes 95-99.9% of the material before the air hits the filter. The can make a benefit two ways, 1) less clogging of the filter so more airflow, or a smaller filter so the machine is smaller. Most home oriented cyclone systems use the smaller machine approach.

I chose a cyclone because I am space limited and I wanted the max CFM in actual use for the space I had. If I were ordering again, I would have asked Oneida to swap the short pleated filter that came with my 2HP unit for the tall filter they put on the 3HP commercial system. (more filter means more cfm once in use with actual dust) :)

[Will Levin]

I have had my 26x38’ shop for less than a year now. I picked up a used 1.5 hp delta dc for $200. It does well connected to my jointer but can’t seem to keep up with 18” powermwtic 180 planer (early ‘70s model I believe). Tablesaw uses shop vac and I don’t have any other machines. DC HAS 4’ of metal pipe and the 4’ of flexible pipe going to planer. Is that run too long or is it just not enough cfm from the DC? I don’t want to move the dc around, currently use blast gates and dc sits in corner. I am willing to upgrade and either sell my delta dc or move it to other end of shop to use with future bandsaw etc. Question is whether I will get the needed cfm from 2hp or need to go big $ for 3hp. Thanks in advance for any advice