Festool Domino eliminate mortiser?

[George Lohnes]

Let's see if I can ask a Festool question without starting a food fight :)

I just purchased a used Domino and have been playing with it a bit. I do not pretend to know all the ins and outs.

However, my question is this: As a hobbyist, is there any reason that I need to keep my tennoning jig and/or my table top mortiser?

Not trying to be provocative at all... just thinking this could free up some space and maybe some cash.

thanks
George

[Bob Luciano]

Keep if for bigger stuff or when you want them to be part of the design instead of hidden

[george wilson]

Dominos and dowels are not as strong as real mortise and tenon joints. If the reduced level of strength is ok with you,use it. Do not use it when you need real strength,like in building a workbench. ( that would be the ultimate in needed strength,of course.)

[John Thompson]

I build a work-bench every summer to sell for wood money. They all have 4" x 4" legs and through mortises. A Domino is good but it won't get you that wide or that deep. I would keep it but I have no clue just what you do and how often.

Good luck...

Sarge..

[Rick Fisher]

I seem to do a lot of aprons. I used domino's for aprons the first time this year. I was really dissapointed.

I really like making mortise and tennon joints. I am way too slow at it and probably not that good at it either :) .. but I can tell you that if your fussy about strength, there is no comparison.

[Bob Childress]

Leaving aside the strength argument for now, it depends on what you are doing and what you enjoy. For people who enjoy the process, milling traditional M&T joints is satisfying in itself. For those driven more by the end product, the Domino is the bee's knees.

Yesterday I was able to cut 28 mortises for a headboard in about 15 minutes using my Domino. For me, that's a real plus. :)

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi George, I know you're going to laugh at my answer, I always seem to be out in left field on this one.

I don't own a Domino, I own a hollow chisel mortiser, the General International model.

I have the utmost faith that the Domino is a high quality machine, that does work of exacting standards, however I'll probably never own one, just like I don't own a router or a biscuit joiner.

It's not the money aspect, I own primarily General equipment, along with a Hammer J/P.

It's the noise of the hand held tools like the biscuit joiner and router that turn me away from them.

I use a shaper for the rare times I need biscuits or splines, and of course it does edge treatments.

So I think I'll keep using the hollow chisel mortiser for the mortises, and the shaper for the tenons since I like the relative quiet of the stationary machinery.

Like most of my decisions, it probably wouldn't stand scrutiny, however it's what I'm familiar with, and used to using.

Regards, Rod.

[Chris Padilla]

I own a Domino and I like it quite a bit. I have a tenoning jig for my TS but have yet to use it. I may one day but I dunno. I don't own a hollow-chisel mortiser. I also own a nice set of LN mortising chisels...rarely used.

The Domino is great for fast floating tenon joints where one feels they are adequate for the application. There have been a few times where I wished the Domino could hold a larger bit and delve deeper than it does but certainly there are limits to what a handheld mortising tool can do.

Really, only YOU can decide if you'll ever need the other mortising tools you have or if the ca$h is more important now.

[Paul Johnstone]

I have a domino, I am keeping my seldom used benchtop Mortiser for a couple of reasons..

1. They just don't seem to be a good seller used. I think I paid around $300 new for mine. I have seen them listed at $175 used and not sell. So I'm thinking I'd have to price at $150 or so to sell. Now $150 isn't a trivial amount of money, but for that amount, I might as well keep the mortiser in case I need it.

2. Someday, down the road, I might replace my interior doors and make my own. I don't think I'd trust the domino with that. Maybe it's fine, but I think I want something stronger.

If I didn't already have a mortiser, I probably wouldn't buy one. Although I have no regrets, the mortiser helped me out enough in the pre-domino days.

[Mats Bengtsson]

I own a Domino and I like it quite a bit. I have a tenoning jig for my TS but have yet to use it. I may one day but I dunno. I don't own a hollow-chisel mortiser. I also own a nice set of LN mortising chisels...rarely used.

The Domino is great for fast floating tenon joints where one feels they are adequate for the application. There have been a few times where I wished the Domino could hold a larger bit and delve deeper than it does but certainly there are limits to what a handheld mortising tool can do.

Really, only YOU can decide if you'll ever need the other mortising tools you have or if the ca$h is more important now.

One disadvantage of the domino I found is going the opposite road as the previous replies. The Domino is not good at handling mortises into thin pieces, it needs a minimum cutting depth.

--- Mats ---

[Tim Malyszko]

I have a Domino and Mortiser and almost sold the Mortiser because it went unused since buying the domino. Last week, however, I needed to cut a full mortise for a lock i was putting in a humidor door. The Domino wouldn't do it. Yea, I could have drilled it out and cleaned it up with my hand chisels, but it was much easier to grab the mortiser and do it with that. After that experience, I'm glad I didn't sell it.

[Joe Meazle]

I am a hobbyist, pretty much. I have a hollow chisel mortiser (with and modified x-y vise), a slot mortiser (homemade multirouter thingy) a set of Ray Iles pigstickers and I used a borrowed Festool Domino just last night, on my bowling alley workbench project, sorry George. I must confess dominos were used for alignment and not strength. If you are looking for a simple fast way to make joints the Domino is great. If you want to enjoy the process of making a piece of furniture or enjoy the look of exposed joinery then the domino falls short. I happen to really like the look of a tusk tennon, a through wedged tennon or a draw bored tennon.It is hard to do those things with a Domino. Think about the arm of a classic Stickley Morris chair with is through tennon rising proudly in a pyramid shape from the vast flat desert like plane of the broad arms. It adds interest for the eye and the hand.
For me a huge part of the hobby is figuring out and trying different processes. To the chagrin of SWMBO producing furniture quickly is not.

For me it is more like riding an old motorcycle down the back roads on a vacation. Some folks just want to get there as quick as they can (screaming kids in the back seat can do that to you) so they hop on the freeway with the very same things on every other exit. I tend to prefer the back roads and a cup of coffee from a real cup and saucer poured by a waitress that still calls you “hun” or “sugar” at some old roadside cafe with an old lunch counter that has the pattern just about worn off the old Formica . But like most of sometimes I have to go through the drive through at MickyD's and hit the Interstate.

Joe

[Chris Padilla]

Joe,

I don't mean to start a holy war here, but I'm curious about the application in which you used dominos for alignment and not strength. Can you expound on that? :)

[Chris Padilla]

One disadvantage of the domino I found is going the opposite road as the previous replies. The Domino is not good at handling mortises into thin pieces, it needs a minimum cutting depth.

--- Mats ---

Interesting, Mats! I've been going through my 50 mm x 10 mm dominos like popcorn and all my smaller dominos have yet to be touched. You are correct, however, that there is a minimum depth of cut. However, with some ingenuity, I think you could set up the Domino to cut shallow if you need it to. Since you control the plunge action, this is possible.

I haven't yet tried cutting mortises into small pieces but there are some doohickys sold on eBay that can make this easier. They are essentially aluminum spacers with magnets that attach to the fence/face of the Domino that are supposed to make this job easier. I have them but haven't tried them.

[Larry Fox]

Ditch the mortiser and buy a set of chisels with the $$ and save the tenon jig. The resale value of the tenon jig vs the utility of having it for "those times" makes sense to me. I have a Domino and both use it and like it. I had a dedicated mortiser and don't miss it. For the number of mortises that I cut it is sometimes easier to chop them by hand than setup the mortiser. Ymmv though!

[Joe Meazle]

Chris,
No holy war from me I think all methods have their merits. I am installing a Veritas twin screw vise as my tailvise/end apron. I will use the bolts that came with the vise for strenth but the Dominos have made it easier to align the surface of the vise with the surface of the bench. The vise is made from a very heavy chunk of hickory. There are other ways I could have done this but the domino as very smooth and the ablitly to cut some of the slots longer was very useful in dealing with the cross grain situation. The fact that i am using bowling alley means that I am dodging nails which was much easier with the domino than it would have been using a spline or a mortise and tenon (like on a breadboand end)
Joe

[Scott Coffelt]

I have both and find I still use the bench top morticer some, but not as much as I did in the past. I find the biscuit jointer seems to be the real loser with the domino.

[Chris Padilla]

Actually, in my Tansu (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=92396) project, I'm using the biscuit cutter and domino quite a bit. I used biscuits for gluing on edge-banding, and the dominos for gluing in the support/divider panels.

[Chris Friesen]

I'm curious about the application in which you used dominos for alignment and not strength. Can you expound on that? :)

He mentioned it was for a bowling alley workbench top. I'm guessing he used dominos to keep the laminations aligned while face-gluing.

[Mats Bengtsson]

Interesting, Mats! I've been going through my 50 mm x 10 mm dominos like popcorn and all my smaller dominos have yet to be touched. You are correct, however, that there is a minimum depth of cut. However, with some ingenuity, I think you could set up the Domino to cut shallow if you need it to. Since you control the plunge action, this is possible.

I haven't yet tried cutting mortises into small pieces but there are some doohickys sold on eBay that can make this easier. They are essentially aluminum spacers with magnets that attach to the fence/face of the Domino that are supposed to make this job easier. I have them but haven't tried them.

I am mostly using the 6x40 myself (due to favoring materials around 15-19 mm). I am switching to a Leigh jig for joining some thinner pieces, but I agree it can be done with the Domino, only it will not be as easy as when using it for its preset sizes.

I saw they are going to release a new bit for the Domino, so they are expanding the range.

--- Mats ---

[Chris Padilla]

I saw they are going to release a new bit for the Domino, so they are expanding the range.

--- Mats ---

Interesting. Any links and do you know the size they are putting out? I guess they will need to provide another size of dominos, too....

[Narayan Nayar]

I'm curious about the application in which you used dominos for alignment and not strength. Can you expound on that? :)

To reiterate what Chris said, I also recently used dominos for alignment and not strength.

Just a week or so ago I was putting together an 18" deep benchtop from dimensioned lumber. Dominos are not going to add any strength to 3" tall face-laminations, but due to limitations in my machinery (and my back), I built two 9" sections, jointed them, planed them, then glued those together using dominos for alignment only.

And to speak to the OPs point, I don't have a mortiser, but that bench (seen here (http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=105172) is made entirely with different flavors of M&T joinery, and the domino was only used in the application described above (benchtop alignment). If I had a mortiser, I would have used it. But I don't, so I used a brace & bit, a forstner drill, a router, and mortise chisels for the various mortises. I have other shop and home projects which use the domino exclusively.

I sold my biscuit joiner after a month of having the Domino. And since I won't be making large mortises very often, I doubt I'll get a mortiser (if I do, it'll probably be a horizontal slot mortiser for use on my J/P combo).

[Chris Padilla]

Narayan, me thinks you 'n I need to hook up...BA Bretheren! :D Drop me a PM. :)

[Bob Childress]

Interesting. Any links and do you know the size they are putting out? I guess they will need to provide another size of dominos, too....

I heard 4mm.

[Mats Bengtsson]

I heard 4mm.

Yes, it is 4 mm, and with a length of 20 mm, and the link is gone (it was posted on a french festool web page).

--- Mats ---

[Thomas S Stockton]

Not a hobbyest but make a living building furniture. It comes down to the right tool for the job and the right joint for the job. I currently have a Domino, biscuit joiner, multirouter and bench top mortiser all get used and I wouldn't want to be without any of them. I use my multirouter about 90% less than I used to since I got my Domino but for larger joints and making chairs you can't beat a multirouter or slot mortiser. My bench top mortiser gets used mostly to cut square holes for ebony pegs when I build Greene and Greene style furniture. Unless you really need the money keep them you will probably need them at some point and you will take a big hit if you have to buy the stuff twice.
Tom

[Chris Tsutsui]

If I remember correctly, a magazine tested the 3/8" mortise and tenon joint held up to like 1200+ pounds, while the Festool 3/8" domino was 800 lbs.

I never considered a domino because then I'd have to buy the right size collection of dominos. I'm also afraid that I will become addicted to Festool so I keep convincing myself that I do not do production work so I don't need it... (Money is also an issue)

I just have the Delta mortiser and will use my table saw/band saw to cut tenons.

[John Sanford]

Okay, bear with me because I'm not familiar with the size limitations of the Domino.

Behind the chair I'm sitting in is a A&C plant stand. It has 40 1/4" square M&T joints. Can a Domino do those? I built two of the stands. While the mortises were't all that deep, there were a LOT of them. Could I have cut them by hand? Maybe, who knows how long it would have taken! I used a machine, and I wished it would have been a dedicated HCM.

Keep the HCM. Stash it in a corner if necessary. If you don't use it for 3 years, then part with it...

[Rick Fisher]

I came back to this post because I said I was dissapointed.

I used the Domino again today. This time was to hold a bullnose onto plywood. It was great.

When holding and using it, I believe its the best quality tool in my shop.. It makes me want more Festool products.

I think its a great improvement to the biscuit jointer.. I will likely never use my DeWalt biscuit joiner again.

Sell the mortiser.. no way..

[Larry Edgerton]

Not in my world........

It may be a better biscuit, but it in no way can be compared to a mortice and tenon.

That being said, I have tried one and it is a nice tool, but I do not see where it pays for itself for what I do. I use biscuits on all of my trim, and the domino may work better, but the cost is more and it is already something I do that my competition is not doing, so I can not justify the cost there.

On casegoods I do M&T on all of the faceframes, cabinet doors, etc.and although the Domino would be slightly faster, thats not what I do this for, and I will continue to use traditional methods. On doors it would be a crime to use the Domino. I don't see the mortise and tenon as being slow when considering the strength gained. I have a mortiser and a tenoning setup that works pretty well, I will usually spend the better part of a day on a full kitchen doing mortise and tenons.

I have a dadoing machine I just bought from Leigh Betsch that I think will speed up my tenons again once I get it jigged up, will be working on that this week as I have a cabinet job in the shop.

Why does it have to replace it? This is not an either/or profession, every tool has its place, every technic its purpose. I can see that it would be useful, but a replacement, no way.

[Ed Gibbons]

I don't have a domino but I bet if you put two tenons in the joint the strenght would equal a standard mortise and tenon of equal size.

[Chris Padilla]

Ed,

FWW in a very recent issue did a comparison of a buncha joints. I started a thread about it so search on my name and FWW or joint or something and you can check it out.

[Mats Bengtsson]

Ed,

FWW in a very recent issue did a comparison of a buncha joints. I started a thread about it so search on my name and FWW or joint or something and you can check it out.

I read the thread, or lots of it. Basically the thread seem to be saying it is a pity they did not do a comparison in such a way that it became a usable compariso. Instead they are comparing one type of joints done in one size and orientation with another type of joint with another size and orientation, leaving all comclusions beyond the basic (longer and wider is stronger) impossible to draw from the result.

Is there anyone having a link to a comparison done in a fair way?

-- -Mats ---

[Tony Scolaro]

It has saved me so much time. I do some true mortise and tenons these days but have been doing a lot of loose tenons before I bought the Domino. I do a lot of panel and frame construction that doesn't need max. strength no question in my mind the fastest and consequently the best for $$. I have three biscuit jointers and use them all. They are preset for the work I do filling orders for a gallery. One is a Lamello. I don't use any for alignment of boards. I use cauls. Occasionally I will use a shim under the caul for a recalcitrant board along with mallet. When I was fresh into WW I used blind splines from time to time.

You can make over lapping slots with it and make your own loose tenons to fill it like you would when employing other methods like a router and a u box with a fence to make the mortise. I have used the Domino for 2" loose tenons. The only limitations I have found was in thickness over 3/8". I probably wouldn't use if for chair construction.

Tony

[George Lohnes]

Absolutely fantastic answers guys.

Even when I don't necessarily "agree" with the answer the logic and rationale behind the answers was really helpful.

I have a mortiser which I have used about twice at most and really have trouble doing (actually the tennons... but you get the idea).

After all this input, I think I will keep the mortiser for now. I think as I progress in my woodworking I may end up feeling the desire to make more traditional designs vs the "get it done quick" mode I am in now... and for that the mortiser is a good keeper.

thanks... the question ellicited a lot more response than I expected!

George

[Larry Edgerton]

Absolutely fantastic answers guys.

Even when I don't necessarily "agree" with the answer the logic and rationale behind the answers was really helpful.

I have a mortiser which I have used about twice at most and really have trouble doing (actually the tennons... but you get the idea).

After all this input, I think I will keep the mortiser for now. I think as I progress in my woodworking I may end up feeling the desire to make more traditional designs vs the "get it done quick" mode I am in now... and for that the mortiser is a good keeper.

thanks... the question ellicited a lot more response than I expected!

George

Wise choice.