BLO then Shellac

[Dave Lehnert]

I have built a Jewelry box out of walnut. Last night I gave it a coat of Boiled linseed oil thinned down. It looks OUTSTANDING!
I was going to give it a coat of Bulls Eye clear Shellac (Spray can) Never used Shellac so I am kinda afraid of messing it up.

My questions...

- I am tempted to skip the Shellac and just give it a coat of wax (Minwax)

- If I go with the Shellac, How long do I need to let the BLO dry?

-How many coats of Shellac?

- Any tips on using the Shellac? I used some on a test scrap and it was glossy. If I rub it out, how is that done and with what?

[Prashun Patel]

Shellac will offer protection that the BLO does not.
If you have the facility to spray then IMHO, spraying shellac is the easiest. On a small piece like that, though, it should not be difficult to pad it on or brush it even if yr new to shellac.

I like to rub shellac out with 4x0 steel wool and paste wax. Easy and fast and smooth.

[mike holden]

Dave,
I would second Shawn, although I like to pad shellac on with a "rubber" made of t-shirt material. As to how many coats? Apply until you like the finish. Shellac dries to the touch in about 20 minutes so multiple coats in an evening is quite easy. Also, shellac comes in multiple "cuts" or concentrations. If you mix your own you have full control of the concentration, if you buy then you can get at least two, the sanding sealer which is about 1 and 1/2 pound cut and the standard zinser can which is 3 pound cut. There is also a "french polishing" can available, and I do not know what the cut is on that. I buy the standard, and cut it 50 - 50 with alcohol and apply by hand. The point is: the difference between the different cans is the concentration not the product. (and *your* alcohol is probably cheaper than theirs - grin)
For the BLO drying time, I would give at least 48 hours. Should be dry to a thumb rub - do this in an inconspicuous spot though, in case it is not dry enough (grin)

Sample boards are your friend!

Mike

[Greg Crawford]

One tip from the finishing instructor at Woodcraft here in Houston, use your nose. If you can still smell the product, it's not fully cured. That was for oil-based stain, but may work for straight oils too. I know tung oil can take up to a week when it's not thinned.

[Prashun Patel]

I would also add that even though shellac dries lickety split, be patient and only do 2-3 coats in a day. I've experienced bubbles that work their way to the surface over a few days if you get thickety too quickety with it.

Also, remember that shellac is a fused, single layer finish, so 'building' isn't going to be as practical or as applicable as with a varnish. After about 2-3 'build coats', subsequent coats should really be aimed at leveling and smoothing. That's kind of the philosophy of the french polish.

[Ken Werner]

+1 for shellac over BLO. I usually pad on several [3-6] coats, starting with 2# dewaxed, ending with 3# waxed [both out of the can Zinnser]. Allow 1-2 days for the BLO to dry in a warm place. Allow the shellac to dry hard, then rub down with 0000 steel wool and wax. This creates a finish which has real tactile appeal as well as visual beauty. Post a picture when you're done.

[Howard Acheson]

For a small project, the Zinnser Spray Can shellac is an excellent alternative. It sprays very well as long as you keep an even distance from the surface. Practice on something first.

Let the BLO cure for at least 48 hours.

"Coats" of shellac melt into each other. The best plan is to spray light coats letting each dry about an hour. Sand lightly after the first coat with 320 paper. Dust and then spray on a couple of more coats. Shellac wants to be a thin finish. More than three to four coats is not a good idea.

[Jim Becker]

While I agree that it's typical to let the BLO cure 24-48 hours before coating with the shellac, I've successfully applied de-waxed shellac over BLO after about an hour, similar to the "fast" finish method that Jeff Jewitt spoke about in Fine Woodworking a year or two ago. In fact, I've gone from oil through shellac and Target USL in the same day on face frames for built ins, but that was a special case that I was willing to "risk" it for timing reasons. I do prefer to wait at least to the next day for each of the steps.

[Dave Lehnert]

Thanks for all the info. The BLO has been drying for about a week now. Just have not had the shop time so I should be safe now.

One other question on the rub out of the shellac.
I found this article on the web and it talks about using auto rub compound. I have read about this process but have no first hand experience. Thought I would give it a try on this small project.

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=CAC8702E992E4261B4C283873365DEBD&nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=1FBEAA748B2C4E1296C6DCDD8CACD18F

[Neal Clayton]

i'm sure others have posted this, but since this is your first time with it from the sound of it...

1) don't apply it too thick, or it will 'alligator' (this is obvious to see when it happens).
2) if you do apply it too thick and it does 'alligator' leave it alone. when it dries (10 minutes should be plenty) you can put some alcohol on a plain ole painter's rag and buff down the bad spot, then spray it again. if you try to smooth it while it's wet you'll just make a bigger mess
3) it will dry in minutes, but it takes a day or so to fully cure. until it has cured you can put fingerprints in it, so again leave it alone. if you have to move the piece do it quick and try not to touch critical places.
4) when you go to rub it after it has cured, don't use alot of pressure. you can remove it completely if you press too hard, especially on sharp/molded edges. just lay your hand on the wool, and rub until it feels smooth. it might not look smooth, but that's where the wax comes in after, don't worry about how it looks if you plan to put anything else on after the shellac.
5) a wax after the shellac will even out the surface after you've buffed the shellac.
6) as an alternative to the wax, you can use a satin/flat/otherwise dulled varnish if you prefer. i prefer the satin varnish since it's more permanent than the wax, but that's just personal preference. the nice thing about de-waxed shellac is anything sticks to it, so you can use it over/under/between just about any other finish.
7) yes it will be glossy, that's the nature of shellac. that's why you buff it down and put wax or varnish or lacquer or whatever else you want on the top if you don't want the gloss.

if you find yourself completely impressed and obsessed with shellac, i agree with others that it's much easier to spray especially on intricate details, so a spray gun will be nice to have if you choose to use shellac alot in the future. again a benefit of shellac, when the alcohol is gone it's completely non-toxic, so it's pretty friendly to spray with too. just set up a sawhorse and a drop cloth outside, stand upwind, and spray away, it's pretty harmless stuff.

i use shellac pretty much exclusively. i find it easier and cleaner than staining, so i use colored shellac in lieu of staining and satin varnishes on top of it. no mess to clean up, no oily rags to deal with, no worry about breathing fumes all day, and as you get more proficient with it you can finish things very fast, due to how fast it dries.

that's why they still sell it and people still use it after three thousand years ;).

[Howard Acheson]

Let me make this point about rubbing out shellac. All shellac results in a very thin layer. Shellac has very few solids and is over 75% alcohol--spray can shellac contains even less solids. What this means is that it takes quite a number of applications to build up a film thickness that can be sanded or abraded without risking a sand-thru. The good news is that you can always fix a sand-thru by adding a couple of more coats.

[Neal Clayton]

yeah, that's true too. with garnet i typically do 7-9 coats. with amber or blonde, i'd do 10-12. this is with a spray gun, wiping would probably be roughly half that. of course with a 5 minute dry time the 7-9 coats go down in under an hour, but yeah, you get the idea...