Do I need a Radial Arm Saw?

[Jimmy Williams]

My grandfather was an avid woodworker up until his death several years back. At the time of his death I was just getting into woodworking and didn't have enough room for his tools so my grandmother sold or gave away most of the bigger stuff.

Long story short, my uncle wound up with the radial arm saw that my grandfather had. The other day my uncle asked if I would like to have the saw as he never got around to using it and probably never would get around to using it.

To be honest I am not sure what all you would use the radial arm saw for. I currently have a table saw, band saw and compound miter saw and would think that between those three I would be able to do what the radial arm would do.

So other than for sentimental reasons, do I need this saw for some operation that I am missing? BTW - I still don't really have the room for it. It is one of the older Craftsman saws. I am unsure of the model number.

Thanks

[Mark Roderick]

The only capability a radial arm would add is the ability to crosscut with a dado blade.

[Rod Sheridan]

Radial arm saws are great for breaking noses, cutting fingers off, and shooting rip cuts across the shop.

OK, so that was a bit tongue-in-cheek, however they are more dangerous than other cross cut machines. (Ask yourself why you see so few machines except for the industrial class).

They are good for cross cutting larger items, as well as dadoing, however there's always the safety issue.

Now that 12" sliding mitre saws are common, most people don't purchase radial arm saws.

I might also point out that while General and The Original Saw Company make nice, accurate machines, that's not always what frustrated owners of low cost radial arm saws say.

It takes a lot of accuracy and rigidity to control a saw blade out on the end of a 24" long arm.

Regardless of what you do, check your new saw against the Emerson recall list......Rod.

[Randal Stevenson]

Has your miter saw ever been too small? Wished you had a sliding compound? If you have space, it will cut wider things for you, and has family history, otherwise, the fact that your asking the question, tells me that you seem to be getting along fine without it.

I have an old DeWalt, that I am replacing with another old DeWalt (GWI model). I got it for around the cost of a cheap miter saw. I have the room, and it is a lot harder for my family to try to borrow it.;)

[David G Baker]

I would love to have a radial arm saw for large items that I can't cut with the table saw or the miter saw. If I had a compound miter saw that would do the work then I would go that route.

[Rob Russell]

If it's free, you can use it for rough cutting wide stock to length and - as has been noted - use it for crosscut dados on wide boards.

Beyond that, It's another surface to put stuff on.

I have heard of folks putting a sanding disk on one.

[Pat Caulfield]

When I bought my jointer, the seller threw in an old (60-70s vintage) Dewalt RAS. It has become one of the most used saws in my shop.

I have never done any ripping on it, but it is great at 90 degree crosscuts.

It cuts wider stock then my non-slider 12" miter saw and for me it seems to be more precise, but that is just my opinion.

You do have quite a bit of exposed blade with it and it can run a cut due to the blade spin direction.

It is another tool in the arsenal.

Pat

[tim young]

I asked a similar question a while back on another forum and the answer was a resounding yes. 99% of the woodworkers preferred the RAS to a SCMS. Mostly because it will cut wider boards. None of them were using the RAS for ripping. Several were using it for dado's. I had a nice DeWalt SCMS. Some of the same safety issues you have with a RAS are there with a SCMS too. The blade wants to run into you. I chose a 1964 Delta/Rockwell model 30-C 10" RAS. DeWalt has a very nice saw from the same time period too. I think the Rockwell 30-C is one of the best 10" RAS's ever built. I plan to use it for dado's, disc sanding and 90 degree cuts. If I want to cut angles, I will do that on my CMS or make a few angle jigs for the RAS. I was able to buy both 1964 RAS and a new Hitachi 12" CMS for what I sold mt SCMS for. My RAS and CMS will use the same fence/bench in my shop. So I'm not losing any space.

[Fred Hargis]

I have just recently acquired an old Dewalt, rebuilt it, and it is now installed in my shop. It's like having an old friend back. My first stationary tool (and only one for about 12 years) was an RAS. It was a Craftsman, and I couldn't keep this particular one aligned no matter how much effort I put into it. So, when Emerson offered the recall route, I let it go. I thought a miter saw would give me enough functionality to make up for the loss; I was wrong. But with the RAS back, I feel whole again, and the best part is that this holds it's settings, and even returns to them when I move...and I can get fairly good DC on it as well, something I could never do with the miter saw I have. But an RAS is not for everyone, and if you haven't missed having it...it probably won't be as welcome in your shop.

[Lee Schierer]

I have a radial arm saw and frankly it doesn't get used a lot. I can do 98% of my cuts on the table saw just as fast and more accurately. I use the RAS for making cuts when I have a set up on my TS I don't want to change. A RAS is hard to keep aligned and is generally not as accurate as a miter saw. The stops are close, but not close enough to cut four miters on a picture frame and have them all line up properly.

Yes it can do compund angle cuts, but how often do you need to do that?
Yes you can cross cut with a dado blade, but you need to take small bites.

A 10" RAS has no more cut capacity than a 10" TS or at least not enough to make it worth the shop space.

Cross cuts are done with a push while you pull motion that can be difficult to master.

Kick backs are easier to create, particularly when ripping.

Cuts are not as clean because you cant have a zero clearance insert.

[Bob Rufener]

The price is right. Take it and use it. I don't know if anyone mentioned but I would recommend that you purchase a good negative hook crosscut blade. Before I had a negative hook blade, I was very cautious when using the RAS as it seemed to want to come right at me. The negative hook blade has made a world of difference. I use mine almost exclusively for crosscutting boards. It's easy to set up a stop block to cut same length boards. I have used it for dadoing boards as well and it works well for that.

[keith ouellette]

The only capability a radial arm would add is the ability to crosscut with a dado blade.

I have done this a few times. I just cut some dados at a 38deg angle for an attic ladder I am building. Here is a picture of it cutting a piece of scrap and the finished cut.
111247

111246



Even though the blade is exposed I feel very safe using the RA for a cut like this because I clamp the wood down and my hands are no where near the blade.

I tried a rip cut with it one time. I'll never ever do that again. I must have fed the wood the wrong way because it shot across the room.

I also like it if I need to make an angle cut on something long and wide where using the miter sled/gauge on the table saw is just impractical.

I have it just for cross cutting dados. (Just in case I ever get to build and sell custom book cases).

I payed $75 at a garage sale. If you want one (and you have the room) it would be worth it to by one used at a good price like I did. This one will make a 7/8 wide 1" deep dado very easy and clean.

[Ken Higginbotham]

I'd get it and horse trade for something you do need/want ;)

[keith ouellette]

I have a radial arm saw and frankly it doesn't get used a lot. I can do 98% of my cuts on the table saw just as fast and more accurately. I use the RAS for making cuts when I have a set up on my TS I don't want to change. A RAS is hard to keep aligned and is generally not as accurate as a miter saw. The stops are close, but not close enough to cut four miters on a picture frame and have them all line up properly.

Yes it can do compund angle cuts, but how often do you need to do that?
Yes you can cross cut with a dado blade, but you need to take small bites.

A 10" RAS has no more cut capacity than a 10" TS or at least not enough to make it worth the shop space.

Cross cuts are done with a push while you pull motion that can be difficult to master.

Kick backs are easier to create, particularly when ripping.

Cuts are not as clean because you cant have a zero clearance insert.


As far as having to take small bite with the dado blade I find that un true. As i said in the previous post I did 7/8 wide by 3/4 deep very easy in one slice.

But your right about most everything else.

[Brad Townsend]

I inherited an older Craftsman RAS from my dad. I used it of and on for years and built some basic stuff using pretty much it alone. It did a lot of things, but none of them particularly well. When I retired four years ago and got serious about woodworking, I took the motor off the saw and sent it in for the hundred bucks. (I probably could have sold the entire saw for more, but my conscience wouldn't let me.) Since then I've set up an entire shop and never once have I missed the RAS.

[Frank Drew]

Jimmy,

I wouldn't want to set up a woodworking shop without a table saw, jointer and planer, but I made custom furniture professionally for over twenty years without a radial arm saw (but I had a sliding table saw for most of that time). Lots of people make good use of one, and some even consider it more important that a table saw (:eek:), but I never missed having one.

Bear in mind that you need clear space (usually wall space) both left and right of the saw itself.

[Ray Phillips]

My first big power tool I purchased in January 1980 was a Crftsman 10" RAS. I still have the same saw and I have used it for just about every cut one can make on it. I have used it for ripping but now since I have a good table saw I use the RAS for cross cuts. I did put a Freud negative hook blade on it and it made a world of difference. The consensus on the creek is that one constantly has to realign the saw. I do check my alignment and I don't find that it needs alignment that often. I don't know of any power tool in the shop that one can be aligned one time and one time only. All tools need tuning on occasion. I use my RAS very often. I also have a Dewalt CMS but I find myself using the RAS more often than the CMS. I also received the recall and put the new blade guard on my saw and found that it was a PITA changing blades with the recall guard so I put the old guard back on it. As I stated earlier I have had the saw 29 years and I still have all my digits. If I were in your shoes I would take the RAS and use it and then if you decide you don,t like it then you could sell it and by other tools. What do you have to lose? Just my .02

[Fred Hargis]

A RAS is hard to keep aligned and is generally not as accurate as a miter saw. The stops are close, but not close enough to cut four miters on a picture frame and have them all line up properly.

I would not make that as a blanket statement for all RAS'. It would have been true with my Craftsman, but it is most certainly not true of my Dewalt. After a complete teardown and rebuild, it took me maybe 3-4 hours to get everything back in alignment. Then I discovered that moving to miters and back was as easy as using the well-designed stops it has, and it is every bit as accurate as any other wood cutting tool I own. It does cut miters that allow perfect frame corners, and it returns to exactly 90° after this movement. I'm just saying...a bad RAS is a nightmare, but a good one doesn't deserve the general rap ascribed to them.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

If you have the room, would you value having one of your grandfathers tools in your shop? Even if you use it rarely, it may be worth having, just for sentimentality.

[Ken Higginbotham]

If you have the room, would you value having one of your grandfathers tools in your shop? Even if you use it rarely, it may be worth having, just for sentimentality.

Or you could donate it to the ken higginbotham retirement estate :p

[Stephen Edwards]

If you room to store it, I'd take it. You may build another tool using parts from the RAS down the road sometime. I've seen it done before.

[Chip Lindley]

IF you have read all these posts and still have no use for the RAS, at least find a good home for it! These old saws have their uses for woodworkers who enjoy using them. The big trend is toward sliding chop saws today, but they are limited in stability AND ability. IF you let the saw go, don't whine later, because some of us Old School Guys *told you so!*

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Two big misconceptions regarding radial arm saws that give them a bad rap...

1. They are not a multi purpose tool as historically touted, and not a substitute for a table saw or molder/router. Rip cuts are just plain hazardous on a radial arm saw in my opinion;

2. Sears Craftsman polluted the radial arm saw market with inferior homeowner equipment. Their offerings went out of alignment easily, or had too much play in the carriage joints and flex in the post/arm assembly. Unfortunately, Sears’ equipment was relatively inexpensive and retail stores were everywhere giving rise to large sales volume.

A couple of small misperceptions...

3. If you don't rip with it, they are very safe in my opinion. That is, they don't chop fingers off as readily as claimed. The path of the blade is fixed in both direction and length. The stock is also in a fixed location. Therefore, set your hands in a safe position, and leave them there. Unlike a table saw or bandsaw, you must continually monitor the location of your hands as the stock moves about.

4. The blade rotates such that it climb cuts and therefore lunges at you. Use a negative rake blade and/or a thin kerf blade. If the stock is hard and thick, use two passes.

My radial arm saw is a piece of junk in quality. But, I'd rather have it than not have it for the crosscutting and dado-ing functions it performs. Again, I have recognized its limitation versus sales ploy.

-Jeff :)

[Jeff Miller]

I have two and I would not want to be without either one


This one

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f32/woodfarmer/Twelve%20inch%20RAS/12ras028.jpg



And this one

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f32/woodfarmer/Dewalt%20Dust%20Collection/owwm034.jpg



JEFF:D

[Rob Diz]

I have a late 60s vintage RAS that my Uncle purchased new.

Do I use it every day - nope. But I sure use it.

I used it last night to cut off the end of a long piece of 9/4 walnut that was 13 1/2 inches wide. All I had to do was clear off the moldings I am also making right now that found a temporary home on the table:rolleyes: I guess I could have used a crosscut sled on my TS, but that would have been awkward and a bit of a hassle.

The price is right, but be sure to get a neg hook blade, and check it against the EMerson recall. You could get a new bed/safety set up otu of the deal for free.

[Art Kelly]

I've had my Craftsman since 1975. Have ripped full sheets of plywood--never had a kickback, planed 6/4x12"x8' natural-edged planks (the planer blades are hard to find now, and the table has to be big and dead-on parallel to the carriage, and it takes a long time), done limited thickness sanding with a drum sander, cut slots with end mills--even in 1/2"-thick aluminum.

I would hate to be without it. Do you have the manual?

My table is integral with the TS and Router table, and is 15 feet long, more or less. Used lots of leveling jacks to make the table flat. You can PM me if you'd like to see the table-tuning procedure I used.

But...you really have to think about what you're doing, use push sticks for ripping, use the anti-kickback device, and make ABSOLUTELY SURE everything is locked down before you turn it on. Use stabilizers on the blade. Hold-downs are used often--during ripping the blade is trying to lift the work off the table.:eek:

A contractor's helper I know cut his hand off with a miter saw, so like I said, you have to have your head screwed on pretty good when you use a tool whose blade is moveable while turning.

Oh yeah, and like flying, there is absolutely no smoking for 24 hours and no drinking within 50 feet of the machine.

No, wait...:confused:

Art

[Neal Clayton]

i use one for dadoes as well. when you need to cut dadoes in a window frame that's 12 feet long, or a door frame that's 10 feet long, well, that just doesn't work well on a table saw with a miter sled. especially doesn't work well since i don't have 12 feet of clearance around my table saw, so it's more like impossible.

yes it takes a long time to square one up, and a cheap one won't tend to stay that way, but it is useful, if you need to cut dadoes.

[mark harvel]

Hello. I acquired my first RAS for free from a guy who was scared to use it. I had always heard the horror stories about them as well and had never felt like I was missing something by not having one in my shop.

I was a little apprehensive of it when I first used it from everything Id heard about them. I thought they were hard to control and the thing was going to want to dive at me as soon as I started a cut. I couldnt beleive how easy it is to control. Ive made thousands of cuts on mine since and have never had the blade "climb" the wood and zip toward me. I really dont understand what all the hype is about. I see no added danger compared to any other operation in your shop. Yes you have to keep your fingers and nose out of the line the saw is going to take to make the cut, but that goes for any tool. I must admit, Ive never used mine for ripping so I cant comment on that.

Mine is one of the "cheap" craftsman models so I dont really trust it to come back to square every time I move it. I always check from both sides with a framing square any time Im moving it back to 90 degrees. I have to say, it has always came back to square so far.

One advantage that may not have been mentioned yet is the accessory power shaft opposite the blade. You can use it for sanding, routing, drilling, sharpening, etc. if you dont have a router table for instance. I never used one in the past but im definitely glad I have one now.

[Fred Hargis]

I can't help but wonder what your decision is on this after reading the w-i-d-e range of responses...so what will it be: yea, or nay?

[Ken Higginbotham]

I think there are two issues with ras's. One, as somebody already said, it's hard to control the saw at the end of a 24" arm. The second is the saw tends to want to 'pull' it's way into the work. On the upside, if you need to cut 2x stock where precision is less of an issue then issue one from above in not as import. And moving a saw across a long, heavy 2x something is much easier than the other way around. Which makes it ideal for doing dado cuts in larger stock...

As far as the saw wanting to pull itself into the work - This means that you have to remember to keep kind of a 'stiff' arm as you pull the saw through. That makes it kind of an anxious, un-natural exercise if you don't do it regularly...

Just my 2 cents :)

[Wally Knight]

I have a Craftsman that I bought new in 1976 and I still get good use of it. Unlike most, I don't pull mine through, but push it like a circular saw.

[Ken Higginbotham]

There's an idea... :)

[Jimmy Williams]

I can't help but wonder what your decision is on this after reading the w-i-d-e range of responses...so what will it be: yea, or nay?

If I recall correctly, the saw looks like the first one Jeff Miller posted. I am going to call my uncle and see if he has the manual for it as well. My grandfather was very meticulous in keeping everything so it should be there (assuming my uncle is as meticulous).

If he does have the manual then I'll probably drag it home and see if I can squeeze it in the garage somewhere. Even if he doesn't have the manual I'll bring it home. More for sentimental reasons than anything but after reading through the responses I can recall a few times where it would have been nice to use the RAS instead of messing up a setup on the TS.

Where can I go to find out about the recall that several people mentioned?

Thanks for all of the responses

[Randal Stevenson]

Where can I go to find out about the recall that several people mentioned?

Thanks for all of the responses

I believe it is radialarmsawrecall.org. Last I heard, it was easier to call and reach them then email (via the site) as it was either broken, or ignored.

[Michael Prisbylla]

Just another voice weighing in here. I've had a Craftsman RAS of the vintage you're talking about. HATED it, absolute hatred. It was impossible to set up with the needed precision to make it a fine woodworking machine. Fast forward to today - I have 3 (though selling one) older DeWalts. I don't own a table saw (lack of room) and don't really miss having one. I probably will someday when I get a shop with enough room, but that's not going to be for a while. That said, my machine is set up correctly (a time-consuming procedure) though this doesn't have to happen more than once a year or so. It is also made with a quality that allows it to stay precise. I rip, bevel, dado, plough, miter, bevel-miter and even mold with it. I love my RAS. An older DeWalt can be had for about $100-$300 and is well worth the money. The Craftsman really is only useful as a crosscut machine.

[Roy Fleming]

I have to disagree with the comments about accuracy of a RAS and that pull cuts are hard to master and that you can't have a zero clearance insert. I have a Dewalt MBF that is more accruate than any miter saw I have owned. If I do a 5 sided cut to check squareness(as you would do when making a cut-off sled for a table saw), I cannot measure the variance on the 5th cut. As for using the pull stroke to crosscut a piece of wood, if you have the correct blade which is designed for a RAS with negative hook, pulling a crosscut is never a problem. As for the zero clearance insert, if your main table is covered with a piece of tempered hardboard, you create zero clearance with your first cut.

[Simon Dupay]

You can probably find the manual at OWWM.com.

[Jimmy Williams]

I wanted to say thanks to everyone that offered up advice and opinions. this truely is the best site out there. I did find out that my uncle has the manual for the saw and he said the date on the manual says 1969. the model number is 113.29410. According to the recall site, this saw already has the upgrade kit on it. That doesn't sound right but I'll check it out once I see the saw again. He said that there are a bunch of attachements and extra blades for it as well. Now I am pretty excited about this.

Again, thanks to everyone.

[Ken Higginbotham]

Here's a bit I didn't know until recently: the 113 in that number can be used to trace the saw back to who built the saw for sears:

Link (http://www.owwm.com/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=222)

So 113 would be Emerson Electric Co (http://www.owwm.com/MfgIndex/detail.asp?ID=286). This was helpful to me as I could not find a good manual reprint on a craftsman bandsaw I am tinkering with but once I found out it was built by Skil I found a good owners manual...

I think I'm correct on this - ?

[Art Kelly]

If you decide to use this saw, once the table is tuned up, don't use it (the table) for pounding, beating, or otherwise bashing things. You'll have to tune it again if you put any big work on it.:mad:

Art

[Fred Hargis]

. the model number is 113.29410.

Again, thanks to everyone.
Jimmy, I looked up a photo of that saw (http://www.owwm.com/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=5130) and if I got it right, it is considered one of the best C'Man saws out there. This one is reputed to hold it's settings, and be reliable on the angles. I think you really latched onto something.
BTW, my F-I-L had one of those, and it belongs to my son now.

[Peter Scoma]

I'd def keep it.

Also, am I the only one cutting dado's on my SCMS???

PS

[Kevin Barnett]

Cuts are not as clean because you cant have a zero clearance insert.

Acutally, that's not true the "insert" is the support board. Unless, of course, your support board looks like swiss cheese from running the blade into it.

I get very clean cuts on mine.

[Frank Stolten]

I think the one point about using a RAS that doesn't get enough emphasis is the absolute need to use a negative hook blade. Since a RAS is basically making a climb cut, using a conventional blade with a positive hook angle just increases its natural tendency to self-feed and can actually be unsafe, especially for someone not familiar with using a RAS. I had the same problem myself with my first RAS before I knew anything about using the correct blade and I was constantly fighting the saw's tendency to cut aggressively. Once I installed the correct blade the difference was like night and day. Now, it cuts accurately and effortlessly with zero tendency to self-feed. I only use it for cross cuts and it's a pleasure to use.

[Ed O'Neill]

I've been reading all the comments regarding the radial arm saw and agree with most. I couldnt get along without mine. I have had the same 9" Craftsmen for 40 years and use it almost daily. When I was learning woodworking in my neighbors professional woodworking shop I was instructed to never move the saw from 90 degrees under pain of death. My RAS is used for crosscutting and for crosscut dados ONLY Eg. bookstacks
As for accuracy its pretty darn close to 90 degrees. The RAS sits in a continuous 16 ft. bench utilizing a 2X2 extruded aluminum fence. I find the RAS invaluable for cutting work to length and my UniSaw for all the rest of my needed cuts. Ed

[Ken Higginbotham]

My Dad has a RAS so I'll have to inquire if he's ever tried a neg hook blade. I'm guessing not. Thanks for the tip.