How many TPI for coping chair rail?

[Augusto Orosco]

I am in the process of installing some chair rail moulding on top of some paneling in our first floor bathroom. After watching a few videos on how to cope it in order to fit inside corners, I practiced on a short piece.

I used my coping saw, which came equipped with a 15tpi blade (got them from LV), and even though I achieved the desired results, it took a lot of effort and time to cut the wood (in contrast to what I have been watching in those you-tube demo videos). I am using generic pre-primed pine moulding from the Borg. Question: Why is it so hard to make those cuts? Is it because I am completely inexperienced and need to practice more (highly likely) or is my 15tpi blade not aggressive enough? If so, what's the best blade for this task (one that would cut faster, but still allow me to follow the moulding profile closely)?

Any input is greatly appreciated!

[Larry Edgerton]

You need more practice most likely. Most beginners put too much pressure on the blade. Try lightening your touch. Don't hold the saw so tight.

Even after thirty years of trimming houses I will have to reintroduce myself to the coping saw after some time has passed.

I just finished one with a lot of chair rail and base cap. I have a trick I use to speed up the process. I make jigs that i slide the piece in and use a forstner bit to cut the predominant curve, and then I do my angle cut to show the profile. Makes that tight curve easy to cut. Hard to explain on the internet though.....

[Mike Henderson]

It isn't chair rail, but I tried cope cuts on crown molding and decided it looked better with just a miter cut. It's been quite a few years and the miter cuts still look good (haven't opened up). I think the secret is to cut the pieces a tiny bit long so they are pushing into the inside corner and hold the miter together.

Mike

[Augusto Orosco]

You need more practice most likely. Most beginners put too much pressure on the blade. Try lightening your touch. Don't hold the saw so tight.

.....

Thanks, Larry. I tried my hand at it again last night. Your advice helped a lot. It was still somewhat of a struggle, but everytime I reminded myself to lighten my touch, things got considerably easier. I think the profile I chose was not the best for a begginer, though. It has a couple of curves with a very small radius that seem to make a good fit difficult. I think I need make deeper (steeper?) copes to have it perfect.

Mike, I thought about simply making a miter as you suggested, but the walls' corners are off square, and I don't feel confident about making miters are odd angles; everytime I try it's usually a disaster.

[Prashun Patel]

In my experience, once you learn how to cope, it's actually EASIER than mitering because you don't have to be exact on the cope degree.

I have a cheap coping saw and cheap blades - don't even know the TPI. It's all about technique and feel - and a good file and rasp. Back cut it roughly to the line and then file yr profiles down with a tiny rasp and file. Once you get the hang of it, it's quite easy.

Of course, problem is, it takes me about 4 copes to get into the groove, at which time I'm usually done with the room!!!

For crown, one of the reasons I LOVE MDF is bkz of the way it copes. For chair rail, I think yr right to go with solid wood bkz it'll take dings better and yr eyes will notice the sharper profiles.

At the end of the day, remember that caulk is your best friend in a corner.

Also, if you can prepaint yr wall and the rail before it goes up, then do so. If you really want to get finnicky, just prepaint the top and bottom edges of the rail with the top coat before installing. Your nailer can slightly shatter the glossy sheen of the top coat if you paint the field of the rail. Often, a decent puttying and repainting the holes is all that's needed, but in certain light, you'll pick up the texture differences, so you're best bet is to nail through the primer, and then putty and reprime and top coat the whole thing at once.

[Mike Henderson]

Mike, I thought about simply making a miter as you suggested, but the walls' corners are off square, and I don't feel confident about making miters are odd angles; everytime I try it's usually a disaster.
Yeah, the walls are NEVER square - at least in my experience. However, that hasn't been a problem for me when putting up crown molding. The amount of off-square is not enough to cause problems - a 45* cut still works fine.

I haven't done chair rail so it might be different, but I have done base molding. My suggestion would be to take a couple of scraps. If you want to be accurate, measure the angle of the corner and divide the angle in half - but 45* may work fine. Cut the scraps and try them in the corner to see what they look like.

If you do use a miter, try to "spring" the inside piece to put a small amount of pressure on the joint. Solid wood doesn't shrink much in length with changes in moisture but I find the spring is good insurance.

If you have a "rounded corner" where the drywall mud was not done square and flat, you'll have to cut the tips off the miters to accommodate the corner. You can use a block plane while you're fitting. If you cut too much, you can caulk the small hole or use drywall mud.

Please note that I'm not an expert - I've only done this in my own home. So take my advice with a grain of salt.

Mike

[Rob Cunningham]

My grandfather told me many years ago " Let the saw do the work"
Keeping that in mind has helped me when using any hand saw, especially a coping saw with it's thin flexible blade.

[Chris Padilla]

See my signature. :D

For coping, practice, practice, practice. I'm still not all that great at it but if the shape of your room guarantees you a double-coped piece, go Mike's route and investigate miters. :)

[Bill White]

:mad:The trim guy one our home used a 1/2" cut on the caulking gun to finish his miters. Looks like "whodathunkit". Oh well! Keeps me busy.
Bill

[Ken Deckelman]

I use a small round file, as well as a small flat file to clean up the cut after coping close to the line, then test fit it to a piece of scrap material. With the files it's very east to fine tune the fit.

[Neal Clayton]

use craftsman style moldings, they're all butt joints ;).

[Larry Edgerton]

Augusto, you do not need to miter, and you do not need caulk!

Make your mind up that this is how it will be and you will be successful.

About that jig.....

If you have tight curves, make a jig that drills a hole exactly on the curve. Cut your trim so that the cope cut is reveiled Pick a forstner bit that closest fits the curve or is a little less radius. Now, on a peice of scrap pin two strips on either side of your trim so that it is snug, but not so tight that a peice can not be slid in. These strips should stand just taller than your trim. Now drill a hole in another piece of scrap with the bit you have selected. Use hardwood if available. Slide this on the strips with the trim in place until the hole lines up with the curve that needs to be coped. Pin in place.

You now slide in a piece, drill the hole, 45 to the edge of the circle, and cope what is left from both directions. On some moldings I will drill more than one hole if there are two or more curves to cope.

The beauty of this method is that the hard curves are cut by the drill. I measure my length and slide the piece in to the hole, so I do not have to figure out the length from a curve. I never have to make a trip back to the saw with this method, most moldings fit every time, and I never use a file.

If you want to try this and are still confused [I would be!] PM me a number and I will give you a call.

[RANDY SCHWARTZ]

You need more practice most likely. Most beginners put too much pressure on the blade. Try lightening your touch. Don't hold the saw so tight.

Even after thirty years of trimming houses I will have to reintroduce myself to the coping saw after some time has passed.

I just finished one with a lot of chair rail and base cap. I have a trick I use to speed up the process. I make jigs that i slide the piece in and use a forstner bit to cut the predominant curve, and then I do my angle cut to show the profile. Makes that tight curve easy to cut. Hard to explain on the internet though.....

I would be interested in more information on coping using this techinique.
Any help would be great. If needed we can correspond via email.

[geoff wood]

one trick is to outline the cut you are going to cope with a pencil, if you use the edge of the pencil it will outline the cut line and make it easier to see.

[Richard Niemiec]

Augusto: I've installed over $6000 of millwork in my house, and I've found that using a coarser toothed coping saw blade is much better than the fine blades. Nothing special about the blade, Home Depot grade medium or coarse, not fine. Light touch, and do outline the edge with a pencil as suggested above, and fine tune with some wood files until you get a perfect fit. Good luck.