Making Mortise and Tenons on Long Boards - Whats the best way?

[Brent Ring]

All,

I am making a queen-sized bed for my son, and need to do tenons on the ends of long (80") bed rails. I was wondering, from a mechanical (tailed) perspective, what is the best way to form the tenons? Router, Circular saw, band saw? I could do it on the table saw, but the setup would be brutal.

Thoughts or ideas? These will not be thru tenons. Is this a case where it is time to do some hand work?

[Wilbur Pan]

Thoughts or ideas? These will not be thru tenons. Is this a case where it is time to do some hand work?

Yes. ;)

Seriously, that's how I would do it. Trying to move a piece of wood that long around is asking for trouble. Out of the powered methods, I'd pick the router, but the time you'll spend making jigs for the router is going to completely swamp any time savings you were looking for by using a powered method over a handsaw.

[John Thompson]

I did 40 mortise and tenons Saturday. I hand cut tenons with a 19 T pull saw if under 4 and a band-saw when over 4 to save time. But a 80" piece presents a major challenge as you noted on a TS or BS..

I would hand saw them or... use a floating tenon in your case with that stock as it would eliminate working with the 80" long piece keeping the tenon down to a small piece to produce to be glued into the 80" piece.

Sarge..

[frank shic]

floating tenons would be a LOT EASIER than trying to set up a router jig to cut the cheeks. i'm sure your son will love the final product whichever way you choose to do it though!

[Brent Ring]

I just had a thought that, In addition to the bed hardware, I could use 3 - 3/8" dowels glued into one end, and then they can slide together and let the bed hardware hold it tight. That might make the most sense - floating tenons would be ok - but I think dowels might do the trick - thoughts?

[Rod Sheridan]

Backsaw and chisel followed by a shoulder plane.....Rod.

[Greg Hines, MD]

I would use a router to cut the tenons, and then clean them up with a block or rabbetting plane. Floating tenons would work too, if you can mortise horizontally. If not, then it too would be a difficult procedure..

Doc

[Glen D. Huey]

Brent, I just did this operation over the weekend. I use a plywood jig that I call a square platform jig. The jig attaches to the stock with a single clamp and a pattern router bit runs against the edge of the jig. It's very easy to make and to use. You can watch a short video at here (http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/Dirt-Simple_Router_Jigs_Video/).

[Ed Calkins]

How about a Festool Domino :) Ed

[george wilson]

There is really no substitute for old fashioned mortise and tenons for strength. Dowels do not have the strength or gluing surface of a solid tenon. Dominos are a shortcut,which is also not as good. Biscuits are a poor substitute for properly joining edges of boards.

Right now,in the latest issue of Fine Woodworking magazine,there are a few angry comments from the Dowelmax(?) people,and the Domino people charging that their methods were not correctly used,because their joints failed to be strongest in a recent joint strength comparison. Who are they kidding? 3 little dowels do not equal 1 full width tenon. Neither do loose dominos.

All these new systems offer the lure of doing it easier,but don't kid yourself about which way is strongest. The required final strength of the joint should be your guide to how to choose the joining method.

A very long piece of wood is problematic,but a router could pare down the cheeks of the tenon pretty fast. The mortise isn't hard to cut on a bedpost,since the post is horizontal while you are cutting the mortise.

[John Thompson]

You didn't mention using the hardware originally, Brent. With that addition the dowels accompaniing the steel hardware should be fine IMO.. For that matter the last two beds I have built... heavy hardware was used without any additional support and no problems in two and three years respectively. But.. these were oak and I did insert and glue a rectangular plug in the end of the stretcher with long grain instead of the end grain for the screws to be driven in.

Sarge..

[David Keller NC]

I just had a thought that, In addition to the bed hardware, I could use 3 - 3/8" dowels glued into one end, and then they can slide together and let the bed hardware hold it tight. That might make the most sense - floating tenons would be ok - but I think dowels might do the trick - thoughts?

Generally speaking, dowels don't hold all that well, particularly in a very high-stress joint like a bed frame corner. The way you're suggesting would simply require the dowels to align the joint, but if the bed bolt becomes even the slightest bit loose, there's a fairly high probability that the dowels will fail, either breaking themselves or coming loose from the glue joint in the rail.

A M&T would be far stronger, and it doesn't even have to be a really good, glue-joint fit. Just close enough to prevent extreme racking in the joint, and the bed bolt will take most of the shear forces.

Making a M&T that's good enough for such an application is really pretty easy with a handsaw, but you can also very easily do it on a bandsaw with an infeed support.

[Paul Demetropoulos]

Making tenons on long stock is a breeze with a radial arm saw, my preferred method when I only have a small number to make.

[george wilson]

I didn't see the part about bed hardware. If you are using long bedbolts,where the nut is recessed into the rail some distance from the end of the rail,then a couple of largish dowels would be o.k.. All they do is keep the rail from rotating and turning over.

When I made my last workbench,I used 4"X6" legs of beech. The runners under the bench were 2"X6" 's. I cut a dado down the center of the backside of each runner. 1/2" steel bars,threaded on the ends lays in the dados,and stick through the legs on each end. Heavy,large washers are under the nuts.There are dowels on the ends of the runners to keep them from rotating,should the wood get dryer during the Winter,and get a bit looser.This setup makes immense rigidity for the bench.

[Brent Ring]

Sorry - I should have mentioned that I am using bed hardware for the rails - I wont be for the footboard though. That will be glued in permanently. I think I will use the router bit ideas offered for the footboard. I dont own a RAS, so that won't work, but I appreciate the suggestions.

I think with the hardware, I will still use the router as I want this to last.

Thanks

Brent

[Tony Bilello]

The Mortise and tenon is far stronger than dowels (actually, just about anything is on a board this size) and also stronger than the Domino.
A hand cut tenon is not that difficult. What is the worse thing that could happen with a hand cut tenon? ...Too thin? No problem, just glue a piece of veneer on the cheek and sand down to size.

[Roger Lance]

Brent...for making tenons on long heavy stock I've used this method....1) the stock should be about 2" longer than needed...2) use a circular saw with a square guide and cut a cerf on all four sides of the stock...position the cuts at the depth to produce the tenon...the two on each side parallel and even with about 1" of extra board left to the end of the board...the distance between the cerfs on one side of the board will be the desired length of your rail...3)now use a router with straight bit set at depth to produce tenon...work from the cerf outward that way that bit of extra stock will help support the router and keep it level...4)cut off the waste on end to give tenon of desired length and use hand tools to adjust tenon to desired thickness to fit mortise.