Replacement iron question

[Joel Goodman]

I have replacement irons from LN, LV and carbon steel iron from TWW. None of them required much time to flatten the back. The LV was absolutely flat, the LN nearly and the back of the TWW was slightly concave (think Japanese plane) so it flattened in a few minutes. I am thinking of getting a Hock iron and chipbreaker for a #6 I just got (stealth gloat) and wanted to know how much flattening they needed. Anyone have experience with these?

[RickT Harding]

I just got my first hock for my MF #9. The chipbreaker looked like it was a bit polished on the back. The blade took some work. I think I had everything up and going inside 20min for back flattening and the bevel.

[Casey Gooding]

I've used Hock, Lie-Nielsen and Lee Valley replacement irons. The Lee Valley are certainly the flattest of the lot. Though, you can't go wrong with any of them.
I usually go with which ever I can find the cheapest at the time.

[Mike Henderson]

The Hock blades I've gotten have not been flat but they haven't been too bad either. Certainly not enough work to not buy them.

Mike

[Joel Goodman]

Thanks for the replies.

[Jim Koepke]

Joel,
I was just sharpening a Hock blade today. It did come with some abrasive marks on the back, but nothing that was not easy to take care of quickly.

jim

[David Keller NC]

Joel - I have exactly your situation - an antique #6 that I wished to use as a roughing plane, and the original stanley iron wasn't nearly hard enough or thick enough to take the abuse of peeling off heavily cambered, thick shavings in hardwood.

I replaced the iron with a Hock A-2 iron and chipbreaker. The Hocks, to my knowledge, are not ground after heat-treating the way L-N and LV irons are, so they take more work to get the grind marks out and to flatten the back. They also seem to be far harder than either the L-N or L-V irons I've messed with, so it takes more work.

That said, I'm thoroughly convinced of their superiority - I now have 9 of these irons, both manufactured by Ron in California and his French sub-contractor. All of them have been superb - both very hard and also very tough (not sure how he does that!).

My experience with L-N irons has been a bit more variable. I've about 20 of these, and the vast majority of them have been quite good, but a couple have been unacceptably soft, or unacceptably brittle. L-N replaced these (cheerfully), and the replacements have been just as good as the ones that performed well out of the box.

That said, I find that the Hock blades sharpen to a keener edge, and they keep it longer, than any other blade in my shop, including the antique cast-steel Sheffield irons in infill planes.

[Douglas Brummett]

Depends on the blade. I have tuned about 6 hock irons and chip breakers in the last few months. One blade was perfect and polished up to mirror finish within 5 minutes. Most take 10-20 minutes. One ugly duckling took about an hour. I probably should have sent that one back, but I didn't realize it was so bad until I already had 30 minutes into it and figured it would be finished soon. Also of note, I have received one blade with a fair amount of bevel damage and required a regrind back about .050"

The chip breakers have all been well prepped and ready to use. Be careful, one of mine sliced my finger without hardly touching it.

In the end I still highly recommend Hock irons and breakers. I also recommend preparing yourself to work them in since not every one is perfect.

[Terry Beadle]

I have a Stanley 605 bedrock with the cryo A2 Hock 2 inch blade. I'm using a Clifton stay set chip breaker on it.

This plane is the most used and appreciated plane in my kit. The hock blade was a present from my brother Steve and so it's like having him around and that's something personal. Thanks again Bro!

I always thought Hock was good but I really didn't know until I started using it in comparison to my japanease smoother iron, the Clifton 03 HSS, and the LN low angle jack. We are so lucky to have such a wonderful selection of blades made out of really great steels. All the blades give great service in my opinion. I'd like to know if any one has some experience with the M2 steel blades from Austrailia...but that's off thread.

However, the Hock out shines the O2 blades and gets as sharp as the Japanease smoother iron. This is not a scientifically based opinion but when I get in trouble with a piece of challenging grain or really hard hardwood, the Hock does the job. So does the Japanease blade. The others usually require a resharpening or a honing job to do the work, but they do it. I will say that the Japanease smoother iron holds an edge ever so slightly longer but that opinion is probably not fairly arrived at as the bedrock is working much more often than the Japanease smoother.

Mr. Keller's experience is extensive and spot on IMO.

[george wilson]

If the Aussie blades are M2 ( I haven't heard about them),that is a high speed steel. High speed steel is too coarse a grain to take as sharp an edge as some might like. I made our kitchen knives out of some new old stock SOLID high speed steel power hacksaw blades,big ones 1 1/2" wide X 3/32" thick X 18" long. They do not seem to hold an edge much better than our other knives. HSS is a special steel made to cut other steels. It is tempered at such a high temperature that it can become red hot and still cut steel. That meant you could run the machines at higher speed than with carbon steels,Mushet steels,and various other tool steels they had in the early 20th.C. Thus the name.

Old,slow machines had to either be modified to run faster,to stay competitive with other machine shops,or scraped.

When carbide came along,so did more speed increase. Once again.machines were obsolete.

I am getting off topic,but steels that perform well in some situations they were designed for,do not perform well in other situations. Wood can be,and is,very abrasive,depending upon the species. It can dull HSS very well.

[Karelian Tonttu]

I know this is a 2 month old thread, but I wanted to say something about the "Aussie M2" that's mentioned here. I think that's Paul Williams' Academy Saw Works M2 blade. I use it on my 60 year old Record No.4 and honestly I can't think of a better blade for what I do (plane soft like spruce to moderately hardwood like rosewood and maple, fortunately not some crazy Aussie wood that think they are stones).

While there are other good replacement blades available from the usual establishments, and I do have a couple of A2 from the usual guys (ye know who), I actually prefer this M2 over them. While I have no microscopic photo to prove the quality of the edge, I feel they take sharper edge than the A2, and definitely holds edge longer.

I think, rather than getting all theoretical about the grain size and what HSS is supposed to be, if one's willing, get one and try it out. While LN and Hock blades would be a safe bet with established reputations, Aussie folks at woodwork forums have very good thing to say about Paul Williams' M2. Some may not like such a hard steel for their iron, but even then, you don't see many regarding this blade as inferior to LN or Hock blades. I just got a couple old Stanley planes (type 11 #7 and 60 year old #60 1/2), I'll be ordering M2 blades for these as well. If Academy Saw Works offered M2 blades for LV bevel-up planes, I'd replace A2 with it in a heart beat (although sharpening will be a bit of rough task, but not so bad with scary sharp setup). I know M2 blade isn't necessary for every day planing of soft to moderately hardwood, but they are good blades, and I don't think most pepole will be disappointed with it even if not completely satisfied.

Though there is one thing M2 (at least mine) blade doesn't like. That is being used for jointing thin hardwood (like 3mm, or 0.120"). Repeatedly jointing on the same part of the blade doesn't dull the blade, it'll causes that part of the edge to crumble. If that happens, you have to grind it back and it's PITA to grind this thing. Other than that, it's super nice in every way.

P.S. I'm not talking about other M2 blades, only about ASW M2. So I don't know how other M2 would behave. I don't think all steel of the same type are created equal anyway.