Carter Bandsaw Guides

[Brent Smith]

I'm thinking of putting some Carter guides on my 14" 1.5 HP Delta Bandsaw http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=56056&cat=1,41036,56060 . I have a Laguna 18 for resaw and ripping, so this saw will be used mostly for curved work with a 1/4" or possibly 3/8" blade. Any comments or suggestions on these guides for this purpose.

[David DeCristoforo]

Carter guides are "the best". Can't be beat. Worth every penny. The best way to improve the performance of any bandsaw. I hope I'm not being to vague...

[glenn bradley]

My dad put Carters on his 1950's 14" Delta. Wow is an inadequate statement. What a difference. Pricey but they do what they claim. He had to return the first set as they didn't send the hex post version. Be sure to clarify when you order ;-)

[Bill Huber]

I think David and Glenn both like them and I have looked at them. Now to add to Brent's question just what do they do to make the saw so much better then say cool blocks?
I have cool blocks on my Jet and there is a bearing on the back of it so what will I gain by adding the Carters?

[Carroll Courtney]

Good question Bill,I to hope someone will reply to your question.Looking forward to a good answer.I do like the way that the blade rides against the back bearing.----Carroll

[Howard Acheson]

Fine Woodworking did an analsis on blade guides for 14" bandsaws. Their conclusion was that Cool Blocks were the clear winner for general purpose saws. The only operation where a roller guide was viable was for resawing. And, for resawing, they liked the Ittura Bandrollers.

The issues with the large diameter roller guides like the Carters was that the large diameter moved the contact and support point further away from the cutting position. In other words they did not provide good support for curved cutting activities. The Cool Blocks more securely supported the blade as they are set up in contact with the blade. In addition, the Cool Blocks did not damage the blade if the blade mistracked and they could be used on any width blade. Finally, the Cool Blocks were the least cost solution.

I too, await some data on how Carter Guides "improved" the cut of a bandsaw.

[David DeCristoforo]

"... just what do they do to make the saw so much better..."

Think of the "cool blocks" or any other "fixed" guide as being a bushing as opposed to the ball bearing guides. Advantages are the same as they would be in any other situation where you were comparing a bushing to a bearing. The ball bearing guides can actually be in contact with the sides of the blade which is not the case with any "bushing type" guide. The biggest advantage is that any possible deflection if the blade at the critical "moment of entry" is eliminated. Also there is much less friction and much less possibility of scoring the guide which is always an issue with "block" style guides as is the vastly reduced wear factor. All of the above may be classified as "hair splitting" but I truly feel that the performance of the Carter guides justifies their cost.

PS I don't agree with the FWW conclusion. Don't forget, even though you read it in FWW, it's still just someone's opinion. I'm not trying to sell Carter guides here. I have just found them to be "the best"...

[glenn bradley]

The main improvement on my dad's was that they stayed in alignment when raised and lowered. Blade drift essentially disappeared. The stock Delta setup would require adjustment at 1" off the table and a readjust for 3" off the table. The Carter's, once aligned are pretty much hands-off until you change blades. Perhaps any quality modern guides on a saw this size would do as well(?).

For smaller blades, I could see where a block would put the control closer to the work if you were doing tight curves. Dad runs a 3/8" blade almost exclusivly so the 'contact' point above the material surface has been no issue. So, I guess the improvement is more than just the bearings, its the quality of the whole arm assembly and mountings.

[Chip Lindley]

Cool Blacks are made of phenolic! (plastic) It is slippery stuff BUT it wears out fast. Doing much curved work, I find I must take out the cool blocks and put a new flat 90deg. face on them TOO OFTEN, after a groove is worn in them.

Although I do not use Carter guides, they are on my LIST OF THINGS TO DO! The ball bearings make SENSE. and will provide much more stability than *plastic* does. The only Negative I have read about Carters is the lower guides get in the way of tilting the table to 45deg. NOT a problem for me, as I spend all my time trying for a true 90deg angle between blade and table!

[Rick Fisher]

I have Carter Guides. They are like cool blocks on the sides and have a roller (big) on the back?

....

Carter seems to have a few different designs.

I can recommend these ones as excellent. The only thing I dont like about them is that you need an allen key and/or screwdriver to adjust them.

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/P1020319.jpg

I have an 18" Delta with stock guides as well. These guides are so far superior to the stock guides on the Delta, they make the Delta guides seem worthless.

These guides would make any saw greatly improved. They are super strong .. they put all the emphasis for sawing on the motor and the sharpness of the blade. ... if that makes sense.

[Jacob Szajkowski]

I put Carter bearings on my 1970's 14" bandsaw and it made a huge incredible difference. I can't saw enough good things about them. I also installed a new tire on the bottom wheel and now the saw shakes like a banshee. I am thinking a new steel bottom wheel is in order.

[Lance Norris]

If you going to use this saw for curved work and wont use a blade larger than 1/4" consider the Carter Bandsaw Stabilizer. I use one on my Ridgid 14" with a 1/8" 14 tooth blade for bandsawn boxes and it works great with the tiny 1/8" blades. You cant really control a small blade like that with regular guides.

[Howard Acheson]

>> The ball bearing guides can actually be in contact with the sides of the blade which is not the case with any "bushing type" guide.

In fact, Cool Blocks are intended to be set in direct contact with the blade. They are made with a graphite impregnation that greatly reduces friction.

A further problem with roller guides is that if the blade slips or otherwise become misaligned, the guide bearing and/or the blade is damaged. There is no risk of this with Cool Blocks.

[Bob Slater]

Does anyone know if cool blocks or the Carter guides are the best choice when working with a metal cutting blade? I am going to use my 14" Delta for mostly metal.

[Jeff Mohr]

If you going to use this saw for curved work and wont use a blade larger than 1/4" consider the Carter Bandsaw Stabilizer. I use one on my Ridgid 14" with a 1/8" 14 tooth blade for bandsawn boxes and it works great with the tiny 1/8" blades. You cant really control a small blade like that with regular guides.

I second that. The stabilizer was a GREAT addition to my Grizzly 14 inch.

I don't have the other Carter accessories as I personally found it unnecessary to purchase bandsaw guides that cost close to a third of the saw. Maybe for a bigger saw, but my 14 inch does fine with factory settings and most of my work is curve work anyway.

[Pete Bradley]

Well, I'm gonna be the wet blanket and ask a couple of hard questions. I'm seeing a lot of generalities about a night and day difference and some unrelated problems that got cured, but few "before" and "after" specifics on machines that started out properly adjusted. For example, I can't see how new guides would have cured Glenn's guidebar alignment problem, other than having to pull the guidebar and properly readjust during the installation. Not saying there's anything wrong with the Carters, I'd just like to understand what really worked better. So now you can cut tighter curves? Cut more accurately?

Pete

[michael osadchuk]

....I have the Carter guide set -looks very much like the one Lee Valley is selling - on a General 490 15" bandsaw and don't notice any performance difference from when I used "cool blocks" or homemade phenolic blocks.... I bought the Carter guides from General at a woodshow but didn't put them on for several years and they have been on for several years now.... I don't do any resawing but when I put the Carter guides on they reduced the height sawing capacity of the saw significantly (to 6 and 3/8" from a bit over 8" with the stock guide assembly)..... the Carter guides are certainly a solid assembly but in my case did not appear to add any noticeable performance


good luck

michael

[Lee Schierer]

Cool Blacks are made of phenolic! (plastic) It is slippery stuff BUT it wears out fast. Doing much curved work, I find I must take out the cool blocks and put a new flat 90deg. face on them TOO OFTEN, after a groove is worn in them.

How do you true up your worn cool blocks?

[Thomas S Stockton]

Pete
I can give you an example I had with my mini-max s45. I bought the guides that use all sealed bearings of the same size for back and side support when they first came out years ago. The saw was probably 5 years old when I put them on and was in very good tune and I was able to resaw veneers with no problem before I installed them.
The problem with the original guides was that they were hard to set and really didn't support the blade side to side so the cut was a little rougher than I would have liked, but since all my sawn veneers went through a sander it wasn't much of a problem just took longer. I put the Carter guides on and they are very easy to set, stay set and support they blade much better because you can run tighter tolerances side to side. Quality of cut was better so less time sanded. In some ways the change was subtle but they really did transform the saw from a tool that worked pretty well into one that worked great. the other thing they did was make it possible to walk up to the machine set the resaw fence and start slicing veneers without having to make sure the guides were set properly. The one drawback I've found is they do make a racket so for general use I run the a little loose side to side.
Tom

[Ben Franz]

Does anyone remember, offhand, when FWW published the review? Can't seem to find my index.

[george wilson]

My factory guides have worked fine,too. My 14" Delta is almost like new,but I bought it used in 1964. My only complaint is that the thumb screws always seem to get loose by themselves.

I think a lot depends upon not what fancy stuff you have on a machine,but,especially with a bandsaw,what kind of personal skill you have with the saw. I used a very thin 1/8" blade very nicely with the original guides on scroll work.

[Rick Fisher]

My factory guides have worked fine,too. My 14" Delta is almost like new,but I bought it used in 1964. My only complaint is that the thumb screws always seem to get loose by themselves.

I think a lot depends upon not what fancy stuff you have on a machine,but,especially with a bandsaw,what kind of personal skill you have with the saw. I used a very thin 1/8" blade very nicely with the original guides on scroll work.


Skills are definately the most important asset, but I recently resawed a 5 1/4 x 9 1/2" Parrallam beam which was 6' long, into 1 1/2" x 9" slabs.

Each cut took about 2 minutes. On a 1 hp x 14" saw, it would have been a much .. much more challenging task.

I used a mag featherboard and a new 3/4" blade and the cut was as straight as an arrow. No real skills, just power and control from a big motor and a strong framed saw with heavy duty guides.

I cut it for a friend, I wanted to see how the saw would handle it. My buddy was helping support the beam, when I turned the saw off he started to laugh and said .. wow.. that was so easy.

[Brent Smith]

Sorry for the delay in getting back to this thread. Thanks all for your input. I have used cool blocks on the saw before and while I liked them, I'm looking for a bit more stability from guides. I found they tended to wear a bit unevenly when doing a lot of curved work. Most of the curved bandsaw work I do is furniture related and doesn't require extremely tight curves necessitating a 1/8" blade, so I think the Carter stabilizer may not be the best product for me.

I would jump on the Carter bearing guides if David D wasn't so wishy washy about them :). But, even though he wouldn't say how he really feels about them, I think I'll give them a try.

[Howard Acheson]

>> How do you true up your worn cool blocks?

Rub them on 120 grit sandpaper tack glued to a flat surface.