tenon hand saws

[jim sauterer]

looking for recommendations on a quality tenon saw.i know lie nielsen is quality any other brands that arent as expensive but of good quality.also are used saws worth buying i have no idea how much it cost to resharpen handsaws.any thoughts appreciated.thanks jim.

[Ben Davis]

I would say that for someone who doesn't know old saws and either know of someone who sharpens saw or can do it yourself, that you are better off purchasing a good quality new saw.

LN saws are, in some cases, faithful reproductions of classic saws first made in the 1800's maybe earlier (their dovetail saw comes to mind). However, don't discount the specialty took makers either. If you are willing to purchase a good saw to have for your kids, these should be in the mix as well.

You might also consider posting this over in the Neander sub-forum for a little better exposure to the guys who do this kind of work for fun every day.

Doc

[Chris Padilla]

Mike Wenzloff & Sons is a good place. Mike frequents the forum as well so you can contact him that way or just google.

[Gary Herrmann]

Some day I'll save up for a Wenzloff or Grammercy etc saw. Until then, my vintage Disstons work very well. You can pick up a 60+ yr old Disston tenon saw for $40-$50 quite easily on the bay. That's for one in very good shape. If you don't need a shiny blade or don't mind some staining, you can find them for less.

I've also seen Disston tenon saws go for over $200 on the bay. Those usually turn out to a couple people getting caught up in "winning" the auction. For that kind of money, I'd go for a new saw. Figure out what you want and be patient. You'll find it.

You want the blade to be straight, preferably with no missing teeth. A tight handle is good (meaning it doesn't wiggle when you grasp the handle and shake the saw). Steve Cooke in PA will sharpen a back saw for $15, I think. He's sharpened and set several of my saws - and they cut beautifully. Having someone like Steve sharpen them means you can buy a crosscut and have it filed rip, or vice versa - depending on what your use will be. Yes, you will lose a bit of depth if you go that route.

Some day I'll take the time to learn to sharpen, but for now - $15 is fine. I'll wait till I have several beaters to practice on - as well as when I don't have a number of projects I'm building for other folks.

Google Steve Cooke to find out contact info. Google The Disstonian Institute to learn about Disston saws. You'll find a lot of posts here about cleaning up old saws. It isn't hard or time consuming.

Or buy a new one - you'll spend more, but you'll have a great saw ready to go. You decide what works for you.

[Alan DuBoff]

Jim,

Names are confusing and sometimes seem to obfuscate things to do with saws. There are really only 2 types of saws, at the tooth level. There are rip and there are crosscut teeth.

When you say you want a quality tenon saw, the implication is a rip filed saw which would be used for tenon cheeks, that procedure is used to remove the waste around outside of a tenon. However, you will also need a crosscut saw to cut the tenon shoulders.

Do you truly want this saw for the purpose of cutting tenons, or are you going to use the saw for other tasks?

What is called a tenon saw varies in sizes, as it does in type of tooth that is filed on the saw.

Let's just step back for a moment. I would like to ask you just what you anticipate using the saw for? That could determine the depth of the plate and/or the thickness, and certainly if you would need a rip or xcut tooth on the saw to accomplish the task at hand.

[lowell holmes]

I have both rip and crosscut LN carcass saws. I don't hestate to crosscut with the rip saw. You can get by with just the rip saw with the 15 pti.
I prefer to make crosscuts with the crosscut saw though. I do recommend both saws. I have LN saws because there were no alternatives that I knew about when I bought the first saw. I would certainly entertain a Wenzlhoff saw at this time. The new LV saw is interesting as well.

Tage Frid sharpened all of his saw as rip saws. I'm not that extreme though.

As to rehabing old saws, I didn't know what a saw was supposed to do until I got my first LN saw. It was a dovetail saw. After I had a saw to provide a bench mark, I have successfully reworked old saws almost to the leverl of th LN saws.



:)

[Mark Singer]

The old saws are really good if sharpened and tuned well. Be careful that it is dead straight! I have a few beauties mostly British and I smile each time I use them....I also smile cutting tenons on my bandsaw:rolleyes:

[jim sauterer]

thanks everyone i think i will look for cross and rip cut.my fear of old on ebay is what some of you are saying straight and tight.i have looked there have been some lie nielsens but they go pretty high.all i have now are a couple of cheap japanese saws.seems like lie,wenzloff and adria go for about the same price range.thanks jim

[jim sauterer]

well i bought a lie nielsen rip and crosscut saw off a gentleman on woodnet.pretty good deal.thanks guys jim.

[Alan DuBoff]

Jim,

I know some folks may scoff at the though of getting a pair of saws like you did, but honestly I think it makes sense. You have a good pair of saws to accomplish most joinery.

I would also recommend getting a the proper size file(s) and learning how to sharpen them. Don't forget to get a handle or make one, the tangs are fairly dangerous without on.

[Matt Benton]

I just bought my first hand tools, the LN dovetail and crosscut saws, as well as an LN LA jack. I don't really like the handles on the saws, but they can be re-shaped easily enough.

I am heading down the slope, soon to be out of control...:rolleyes:

[dan grant]

check these out http://www.medalliontools.com/default.html very nice very good comunication, bought a set of 14", crosscut and rip and they cut very nice, i have managed to pick up a few deals on the bay as in a 40s diston #4 brand new for 50$, dont think it ever cut wood, and it cuts as good or better then the others that i have

[george wilson]

Matt,what don't you like about the LN handles ? Among the usual run of handles,they are exceptionally artistic and well executed. I am curious. I don't care for the straight handle dovetail,but the rest are nice.

[Matt Benton]

George,

Well, as these are my first saws, I hope I have enough to go on to even have an opinion, but it seems like the hook at the front-top of the handle is too small for my index finger to fit comfortably, and the angle on the back of the saw seems to be too pointed. Seems it should be a softer curve.

I know I need to try some other saws before passing judgement, just initial impressions...

[Ray Gardiner]

George,

Well, as these are my first saws, I hope I have enough to go on to even have an opinion, but it seems like the hook at the front-top of the handle is too small for my index finger to fit comfortably, and the angle on the back of the saw seems to be too pointed. Seems it should be a softer curve.

I know I need to try some other saws before passing judgement, just initial impressions...

Hi Matt, I have a friend who grips his saw that way.. the normal three finger grip is with the index finger pointing down the saw.

Sorry I don't have a picture to refer you to..

Regards
Ray

Edit: For what it's worth the Lie Nielsen handle derives from the Independance Saw, which was in turn inspired by a 19thC Richard Groves Saw
It is probably one of the more comfortable saw handles around.

[george wilson]

Matt, I was suspecting something like the grip. As stated,you lay the finger straight down the side of the handle. Many saws have much less of a hook.There isn't anything wrong with the design of the saw from the grip perspective. I have large hands,and 2 original Groves saws which I like very much. I even copied them. Usually,I don't like to copy things,but used to get paid to do just that.

[Matt Benton]

George and Ray,

Thanks for the advice, I figured the grip I was using wasn't quite right.

I was gripping the saw too low on the handle. Moved my grip up as high as I could, and it was much better...

Thanks again...