Decision - AI mk2 or LN chisels?

[Cliff Polubinsky]

I'm thinking of changing my chisel set (tax return is burning a hole in my pocket) and so I'm asking for advice from my two favorite forums. I currently have the Ashley Iles bevel edge and while I like them, as many have said, the handles are large, and I would like smaller side bevels.

I'm trying to decide between the new Ashley Iles Mk2 and the Lie-Nielsens. I've seen some reviews that say that A2 is harder to sharpen and doesn't take as sharp an edge as O1. I've also never seen a review by anyone who had the LN's who didn't like them. Nor have I seen a review by anyone who had the Mk2's that didn't like them.

Is it pretty much a wash between these 2? Would I really notice a difference between them?

Thanks for any feedback.

Cliff

[george wilson]

The trade off for any steel that stays sharp longer,is that it is harder to sharpen. There is a very small difference between the level opf sharpness that 01 or A2 will take. they will both get sharp enough to shave with,though the o1 will shave slightly easier. I submit that the first few cuts you take with the 01 will erase that slight extra edge. Start with a 220 diamond stone,then black,then white ceramic stones.Strop with Simichrome on leather,and they'll sharpen up quickly.

I think I recall someone saying they had a problem with the temper of the LN chisels (could have been the plane iron),but I'm sure that LN would replace any defective tool. They did replace a plane iron for me that was a few points below the hardness they stated.

I have made many tools from 01,now,I use A2 for most tools.

[Casey Gooding]

You will never regret the Lie-Nielsen set.

[John Keeton]

Couple of sets of LN for sale on "the bay."

[Cliff Polubinsky]

Couple of sets of LN for sale on "the bay."

John,

Yes, I saw those. Thanks for the heads up. The 10 chisel set is way more than I'm looking for. The 5 chisel set has 6 days to go and from the bidding in just the first day, it will be interesting to see where it ends up.

May be a possibility. It will bear watching.


Cliff

[John Keeton]

Cliff, I should have said this earlier. I have not used the LN chisels, but they have a good following. However, I did recently purchase the Blue Spruce dovetail chisels, and they are fantastic. They are a little more expensive than the LN, but boy are they sweet. Very light, small handles, and very easy to use. Just a thought.

[Mike Cutler]

Cliff

I don't see a bad decision either way. Both chisel sets have been met with high regard from everyone that's bought/used them.
I have the LN chisels with cocobolo handles, beautiful chisels, take a keen edge with no problem, and well made. The cocobolo handles looks great, but in all honesty, is not the chisel handle material for me. The chisels keep slipping off the cocobolo. Still, they are pretty.
I'm going to try and make a set of handles out of some padauk, or bubinga in the spring.

[george wilson]

Cocobolo is an oily wood. Bubinga is also,and not as pretty. Have you tried wrapping a thin sheet of paper around the tang part of the handle,and trimming the paper below where it would show,then hammering in the handles? Paper really holds slippery metal when I am milling it in the milling machine. The vise jaws are smooth,too,and paper works great. Maybe it would also work on the cocobolo.

Another idea: If you do not wish to get glue inside the sockets of your chisels,glue the paper around the tangs of the handles, Wrap it down tight with string,so no gaps result. Then,take the string off when the glue drys,and seat the handles home. That way,you haven't gotten glue into the sockets. You could go around the top area of the paper with a dark brown,or black ink marker to ensure that you don't see the top of the paper when installed.

[Rick Erickson]

Cliff, put me in the camp of not having a bad thing to say about the LNs. I own several of their bevel-edge chisels and they are superb. I also own 3 of their mortise chisels and although I haven't used them as much they too work great. I don't think you can go wrong with any of their chisels.

[Alex Shanku]

I own a set of A.I.'s, and am completely happy. They do everything I ask of them; I work those chisels pretty hard.

The L.N. look and sound like a great tool, and I am sure I would enjoy working with them. But, regardless of that, the A.I.'s have not disappointed.

Al

[Joe Meazle]

I love my AI sets.

[Mike Cutler]

George

I'll give the paper trick a whirl. I really like the look of the cocobolo handles, and if a thin sheet of paper was all I needed that would be great.
Thank you for the suggestion.



Cocobolo is an oily wood. Bubinga is also,and not as pretty. Have you tried wrapping a thin sheet of paper around the tang part of the handle,and trimming the paper below where it would show,then hammering in the handles?

[Doug Shepard]

I upgraded to the LNs from a set of blue handled Marples and the only negative thing was also the handles (the standard hornbeam) falling off. I finally put a drop of epoxy on them based on LNs webpage Use/Care info and haven't had a problem since. They take an edge better than the Marples and keep it a lot longer. The darn things get so sharp I've slid a couple into the leather tool roll and had them skewer through the leather with zero resistance. I've never used the AI so cant comment there. A number of folks that went to the Berea conference came back positively enthralled with some new chisels being made by Blue Sprice so those may be worth looking at too.

[george wilson]

I assumed the LN chisel owners would not like to gunk up their sockets with epoxy. Also,from reading about the backs of backsaws coming loose,that were epoxied on,I am assuming that the epoxy might shock loose. If I was to glue in my handles,just glue,no paper,I think some Loctite might give a better bond. That stuff is sort on like rosin. I Loctited a threaded 5/8" vertical rod onto a metal lathe compound,which had no "T" slot to bolt the toolpost into. I used green loctite. It was the very devil to get loose when I needed to. From its texture,I could see it would have taken shock well.IIRC,the green loctite was the semi permanent type.

[David Keller NC]

"I think I recall someone saying they had a problem with the temper of the LN chisels (could have been the plane iron),but I'm sure that LN would replace any defective tool. They did replace a plane iron for me that was a few points below the hardness they stated."

That was me - I have a set of 5 L-N bevel edge socket bench chisels that represent the very first sets that rolled off the line when they were introduced. These are a bit soft - the edge will roll when paring any reasonably hard wood. However, based on comments on this site and others, I have to think that my set was just new introduction hiccups, perhaps in the tempering. I'm certain L-N will replace them, I just haven't got around to it yet.

Personally, I would not bother attempting buy L-N items off of e-bay unless it's an unusual plane that doesn't see much demand (like a butt-mortise plane, for example). Someone esle has posted speculation that one of the reasons that L-N tools almost always fetch at least 80% of the retail price, and sometimes more than the new price, is that they can be shipped to another country without the duties/tariffs that a set directly from L-N would incur. If you live in this country (US), I'd think it'd be a lot better to pay the extra 10-20% and get a lifetime warranty.

[Danny Burns]

Neither!

Look at the Blue Spruce chisels!

http://www.bluesprucetoolworks.com/

They don't come any finer!

[george wilson]

David,I am wondering if they (LN) tried to harden their first chisels without shielding them from the air. If so,there would be a soft skin on the steel surface up to 1/32" thick. At the higher temps. needed to harden,the carbon burns out near the surface of the A2.

I sometimes put a little bit of brown paper into the stainless steel foil envelope that I wrap A2 in when hardening. That burns out any oxygen in the envelope. I do not have an inert gas furnace,which would actually be the best solution.

[Berl Mendenhall]

David, I've often wondered about resale of LN on ebay. I've seen some go for retail. I've thought what is wrong with you people, you can go to LN and get brand new with a guarantee for that kind of money. Guess I never thought they were maybe going out of the country.

Berl

[Cliff Polubinsky]

Thank you all for your input.

Just ordered the LN set today from my local Woodcraft. The owner was gracious enough to advance Saturday's sale prices and after a little begging even bumped the discount up from 10% to 15% for the 5 chisel set with the toolroll :D. The things that swung me over to the Lie-Nielsen's were that they were US made, sockets instead of tangs so the handles can be swapped back and forth with longer ones when needed and easily replaced if damaged. I have a number of their planes and have always been happy with them (except for the No. 95 edge plane - just can't get that one to work right. Thinking of selling it or trading someone for the chisel plane). I have absolutely no complaints with my present AI's except the higher side bevels and long handles. But since I'm planning this to be my last set of chisels I'd always be kicking myself if I passed on the LN's this time around. Prorate the higher cost over the new AI's for the years I'll hopefully have them and the cost difference is negligible.

Cliff

[Mike Cutler]

Cliff

Congrat's on the new chisels! They're beauties, and you'll really like them.

About your model 95.
The 95, 98,99 and the 1/2" shoulder plane are LN's more difficult planes to make. The angles and hand work required to make and fit them are pretty labor intensive.
I had a set of the 98 and 99 and could not get them to work properly at all. I thought I was a real dolt. I finally got a chance to talk to LN at a show to get them to show me how to set up my planes properly. They had them for about a minute or two, took them from me, and apologized for the defects in my planes. 2 week later I had a new set of planes that were set up and worked properly delivered to my house. Point being, it may be the plane, and not you that is inhibiting you from setting up the plane.
LN is a stand up company. Call them on the phone,and they'll either help you over the phone, or have you send them the plane.

[Cliff Polubinsky]

Mike,

That's worth a try. I have a handplane class at Marc Adams in April with Chris Shwarz and Thomas Lie-Nielsen. I'll take it along and give it one last chance.

Cliff

[Rob Luter]

Thank you all for your input.

Just ordered the LN set today from my local Woodcraft.




I did the same a couple of weeks ago. I don't have a local Woodcraft, but happened on one while traveling on business. They were having a 15% off event on LN tools. I've not had a chance to use them yet as they showed up earlier this week while I was on the road again. They sure are pretty though.

[Tom Godley]

Cliff - that looks like a great class!

[Jim Becker]

I have AI chisels and love them. I've used L-N chisels and loved them. Tough choice! LOL I'd have to base the decision on how the handle feels, personally...that's actually what got me to buy the AI tools from Joel when I did. The test drive in his old NYC showroom one afternoon where several different brands were available on the bench to play with.

[Cliff Polubinsky]

I don't have a local Woodcraft

Rob,
You're welcome to use mine. It's only a couple of hours from you :rolleyes:.

They said my set should be in Tuesday. Let me know what they're like to set up.

Cliff

[Cliff Polubinsky]

Tom,

Yes. Looking forward to it. I've taken a couple of classes at Marc's school and it's always been well worth the time. Nice place. Good tools and excellent instructors.

Cliff