Need spalting advice

[Richard Bell CA]

Well, I'm going to try spalting some wood. After doing some reading, I am thinking about a concotion from a USDA bulletin consisting of beer, non-sudsing ammonia, nitrogen rich fertilizer, oak leaves and grass clippings. I have some freshly cut silver maple in three configurations: half rounds, 2 1/2" thick X 16" x 5' long slabs, and rough turned bowls. I will smear the concotion on the surfaces and then place the wood in plastic bags.

I am sure someone in this forum has done this type of thing before, so I would appreciate your experiences, comments, advice.

Thanks

Richard

[Cody Colston]

Don't place the wood in a plastic bag. It will just mold.

I've never done anything except leave it outside in the shade, usually in a leafy area. The spores that promote spalting are already in the air, grass, etc. After about six months, it's ready although that varies a bit between wood species.

[Jeff Nicol]

Well, I'm going to try spalting some wood. After doing some reading, I am thinking about a concotion from a USDA bulletin consisting of beer, non-sudsing ammonia, nitrogen rich fertilizer, oak leaves and grass clippings. I have some freshly cut silver maple in three configurations: half rounds, 2 1/2" thick X 16" x 5' long slabs, and rough turned bowls. I will smear the concotion on the surfaces and then place the wood in plastic bags.

I am sure someone in this forum has done this type of thing before, so I would appreciate your experiences, comments, advice.

Thanks

Richard
Richard, Let us all know how it turns out, maybe your concoction will become the magic potion for spalting!

Jeff

[Daren K Nelson]

I spalt alot of material (in whole log form) and have heard the beer/manure concoction...to be honest mother nature does a better job. What Cody said, shady spot-throw some leaved on it and be patient. Since you mentioned silver maple here are a couple pictures of a chunk that laid just like Cody said. My only problem with what I think you are talking about is those pieces you are talking about sound at least partially dry/if not dry. You will not get spalt in dry wood, the natural sugar water contained in the cells is what feeds the spalting microorganisms. Rewetting the wood with a concoction all you will get is mold and dry rot.

[Steve Schlumpf]

It would be interesting to find out if the solution works - but for me - I have to agree with Cody. I leave everything in log form, keep in a shaded area so it doesn't dry out and mother nature does a beautiful job with it.

Best of luck with it!

[William Bachtel]

I wood leave it outside, and cover with leaves or something natural, and wait, that will be the hard part. Check it so it does not get over done.

[Richard Bell CA]

Thanks for all of the replies. I would agree that leaving a log out and letting nature take its course would be the best approach. I am considering the approach I suggested for multiple reasons.

1) I notice most of you are from the midwest. I know from my time out there that the summers tend to be warm and humid, with frequent thunderstorms. This would seem to be ideal conditions for spalting. However, I live in inland California. The summers are hot (100F+) and we rarely get any rainfall in the summer months. As a result, it gets bone dry, even in the shade.

2) I don't have the space or the equipment to work with logs. I cut my wood in the field and haul it home. It is easier for me to work with pieces.

3) I simply like to tinker and experiment. The maple is relatively bland right now and it was free, so I don't have much to lose.

Here are a few of the links I have been reviewing:

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/techline/producing-spalted-wood.pdf

http://www.woodcentral.com/russ/russ4.shtml

http://www.ohiodnr.com/tabid/5255/Default.aspx

There is also an interesting article in the August 2008 issue of Fine Woodworking (no. 199) pages 30-32.

To address some of your questions:

Daren: The wood was cut within the last week and I have been keeping it wet. It has not dried out yet.

Cody: I know what you mean about the mold. I sometimes put bowl blanks in plastic bags for a short time prior to turning, and they frequently mold. A few years ago I was turning some silver maple and neglected one piece in a bag for a few months. When I went to retrieve it I found it had spalted. I turned the 11" diameter bowl shown in the photos (apologies for the photos, I am still coming up to speed in this area). The wood was completey sound - no punky areas. It may have developed more character if I had left it longer, or it was allowed to spalt in a more natural setting. However, it was still a significant improvement over the relatively bland as-cut maple. I have had similar experience with pecan in a bag. In both cases the spalting was the result of pure luck rather than an intentional effort.

Thanks again for the replies, and I will try to post at a later date with my results.

Richard

[travis howe]

Way off topic for me but I love spalted woods.

Are you all saying that good spatled woods come only in log forms, that any precut lumber isn't worth the chance for spalting?

[Steve Schlumpf]

Travis - I am not an expert but it has been my experience that the log form is very simple cause you stack them in the shade, seal the ends to slow down moisture loss and forget about them. I have spalted roughed out bowls by leaving in a plastic bag for a month. It works but is seriously on the smelly side!

The spalt takes place by the different bacteria that feed off the tree's sugar water. Different bacteria - different colors of spalting. Pre-cut lumber - even if left to air dry would not have the necessary moisture levels to allow the spalt process to take place. You might be able to experiment a little by throwing some water on a few pieces and then cover in plastic. Might work - but I have not heard of it being attempted.

[neil mackay]

Hmm, Spalting is not easy where I live it tends to be dry and warm to very dry and stinking hot 104-116f or 40-45C. What ever humidty we get is quickly blown away by the wind.

[Jeff Nicol]

Travis, I have a sawmill and sometimes the slabwood spalts after it is cut from the log. Some of the slab is cut all 4 sides and has no bark on it but the wood is wet yet from being fresh cut. I have seen other boards that were kiln dried cut offs from building a house or cabin that laid on the ground and started spalting. I think it all comes down to time, moisture and the right fungus to start growing in the wood. I saw an article somewhere a year or so ago that some one did the dirt and leaves thing in a controled box in the basement or someplace that would stay pretty moist. In your area a box made with the dirt and stuff in a plastic tub and a framed plastic cover to create its own little ecosystem might do the trick with flat boards. This way you can control the moisture and temp as you see fit. Ideas are flying through my head right now as to what I would try.

Good luck and it can't hurt to try!

Jeff

[Richard Bell CA]

The method describe by Jeff, placing boards in a plastic container, is pretty much what the author did in the Fine Woodworking article referenced above, but she used vermiculite to help control the moisture. She also mentions the use of plastic bags, although cautions against sealing completely because the fungi require oxygen. I think the intent is to create a "microclimate" that is favorable for spalting. I saw this as a way to compensate for the dry climate.

Daren, Cody, Steve: I have been thinking about what you said, and when I heard the term "log", something else popped in my head. My first thought was of a tree trunk or branch, 6'-12' long, weighing hundreds of pounds. However, I think what you meant (and I misunderstood) was something of a length more suitable for firewood, on the order of 16"-20", maybe a little longer. This would be easier to handle. If this is the length you are talking about, then we are now on the same page.

As for my current effort, I think I will try several different methods including 1) the "concotion", which is Rob's method in the USDA article, in a plastic bag, 2) no additional treatment placed in a bag and 3) no additional treatment covered with partially composted shavings and leaves, which is as close as I can get to the method favored by most posters. I may have to wet them down periodically in the summer, or maybe cover with a tarp.

In my reading, the best term I came across to describe spalting is "consistently inconsistent". I think this is true.

Richard

[scott schmidt grasshopper]

hi I have a spalting pile. its a couple old mdf sheets on the bare ground with damp sawdust layered over it. then put your blocks/ log sections on the damp sawdust and then cover with more sawdust/ shavings when you get it all built, wet it down with a hose and cover with a tarp or plastic sheet. do not seal it . just keep the wind and sun off I do it in the shade of my shed and have spalting growing in a couple weeks. every now and then I add or remove peices .I added a nicely spalted green peice to help start the right fungus.the pile doesnt take up alot of room ( 6 ft sq) and give me lots of wood to turn. fungus loves 65 degree weather and 50% humidity which the shaving mantain. every now and then add more fresh shavings to keep the sugar aval and it will selfsustain for a long time. watch for bugs from the bark areas and also carpenter ants ,
good luck

[Burt Alcantara]

I had a few silver maple logs that I wanted to spalt. Since I live in a fairly dry climate I put the logs in different places around the yard. The only log that spalted was under a small poplar with a good amount of shade. After about 1 1/2 years the spalting took.

Unfortunately, most of the log had deep checking so I didn't get much from it.

David Ellsworth uses beer and yeast and just leaves them to stew in this brew. It helps that he lives in a humid climate.

Burt

[Gary Chester]

Perfect time for this post!!!

We just cut down a maple in the backyard, and while I like maple... this is some pretty boring maple, no interesting grain or coloring.

So I got out my "toy" chainsaw and cut it up and spread it around the yard. Some pieces I left round, some I split down the pith, some in direct contact with the soil, some with decomposed shaving pile spread around them, some vertical, some laying flat. Maybe I'll go pour beer on a few... although, that's alcohol abuse.

Now... patience, patience. patience

[Tom Green]

Richard,
Where in CA do you live? The climate here is about the same as you describe. I currently have a couple pieces of maple in a garbage bag full of oak leaves and a couple pale ales. I'll have to check tonight and see if anything is going on with it.
Tom

[Richard Bell CA]

Tom:

I live in the foothills east of Sacramento, so about 100 miles away. If anything, your summer temperature is probably a couple degrees warmer than mine. I would be interested to hear about your experience with the maple.

By the way, good choice on the pale ale, one of my favorites.

Richard

[Jarrod McGehee]

I know this is off topic by a large margin but, Hey Richard where in California are you? I'm in the San Diego area.