Catch of the day?

[Jim Koepke]

I am fairly new at turning and have not had any training to speak of.

Finding a mentor would be good, but living in the sticks, none have been found yet.

My main problem may be something someone here can explain to help correct my error.

While turning, I often lay the skew on the surface of the wood and get a nice smooth surface. Often, when working on a detail like a bead, the tool will all of a sudden be grabbed and slice across the wood, usually leaving an ugly scar and causing a loss of the detail being created.

Is there something that can be done to avoid this?

Is there a cause for this that can be explained or avoided?

I do not know the terms people use, like "going uphill with a skew" has no meaning to me other than knowing some say it should not be done.

It is really frustrating to have something shaping up to ones best hopes then all of a sudden have the tool pulled across the face of the work. Heartbreaking comes to mind.

Any help will be appreciated and thanks in advance.

jim

[Pete Jordan]

Hey Jim,

My advice would be to get a hold of one of Alan Lacer's videos on using the skew.

They are excellent!

[Jamie Cowan]

I might not fully get what you mean, but if it is what I think it is, it is the corner of the skew catches and shoots across your work. I've had that problem, and corrected it by putting a slight camber on the edges at the tip and tail. unfortunately, it no longer gives a uniform cut actross the entire width, but it doesn't catch as easily anymore. I also have a thicker skew that has a steeper angle (almost like this/\), and that doesn't seem to catch like the regular skew. I dunno. That's where I'm at, anyway.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Jim - I'm not a skew expert and really do not use it much in my day to day turnings but might be able to clear up the up-hill/down-hill thing. Lets say you are working on a spindle and the end closest to the headstock is a larger diameter than the end at the tailstock. If you cut the spindle starting at the largest diameter (headstock) and move the cut towards the smallest diameter (tailstock) - then you are cutting downhill. Wood likes to be cut that way and the results will be a smooth surface. If you try to cut going uphill, (it can be done) chances are the skew will dig in and you'll have a huge catch. When you cut downhill - you remove the wood at a constant taper. When you cut up hill - you are trying to cut into an ever increasing diameter of wood and the skew (or whatever) will dig in - instant catch!

Hopefully someone with a better description will jump on here and be able to explain it in clearer terms.

Only suggestion about training, if no one is around you, would be DVDs. Best of luck and be sure to ask questions!

[Bernie Weishapl]

I was having the same problem when I frirst started. It was recommended I the Alan Lacer's The Skew Chisel. It is excellent and solved my problem.

[Jim Koepke]

I guess I will have to start saving my money and buy the video.

The skew is not catching on the end, I have had that happen though. It is in the middle of the blade, not using the blade full width, but at an angle to the center of the work. Then, all of a sudden, it seems to dig in and cut a spiral slash.

Thanks for the help, any more ideas would be appreciated.

jim

[Rick Prosser]

I have had the "middle" catch before - both because of a dull edge, and because of a slight reduction in pressure on the tool. The wood is exerting a force opposite the way you are cutting, so if you ease up on the tool, it can push the tool away and cause the issue you describe. For me, the fix was to keep the skew sharp, and control the tool (practice). The angle of the edge on the wood will make a difference it how reactive the tool will be also. I usually try to keep it about 45 degrees.

[Jeff Nicol]

Jim, What I believe is happening is that when you start to get past a point on the cut where the bevel is getting tipped up and not riding all the way to the bottom of the cut. So you need to tip the skew handle up and out to maintain a good bevel rub and clean cut. Also the speed of the wood towards the center of the spindle is slower than the outside of the spindle so that will affect the speed of your cut. So if you don't compenate for these changes when you hit that spot the skew edge above the curl coming off will dig in and create your spin out!

Hope that helps, you will see what I mean if you watch your cut.

Jeff

[Allen Neighbors]

I was thinking it. Jeff said it. I think you just let your bevel come off the wood slightly. It happens to me all the time, because I have a built-in tremor, and have a hard time with the skew. I've tried a few beads with it, but never get one finished.
When your bevel pressure becomes nil, the cutting edge of the skew will become like a knife blade, and you can't hold it against the cut, without a bevel-rub.

[Curt Fuller]

If you're like me, that happens when I'm making the right hand side of a bead. Because I'm right handed, it's easier for me to roll the skew from the center of a bead towards the left. When I try to go from center toward the right my body gets in the way of the tool handle and I lose the angle that rides the bevel. What I've done that helps for me is to learn to hold the skew left handed while cutting toward the right. That puts the handle at the other side of me. I think it's all in riding or rubbing the bevel but it might also be in the fact that I have a little too much turning muscle to work around too.

[Jeff Nicol]

I will also make the first cut with the long point down as it is much easier for me. Then come back and make the finish cut with the long point up. If you are using a straight grind on the skew that is a bit harder that a curved or radius grind. But it still comes back to practice as much as you can to keep your skew skills sharp! Sounds like lots of puns!

Turn safe,

Jeff

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks all for the help, I am a little unclear on "riding the bevel" is this keeping the edge and the bevel on the piece being cut? That seems a bit difficult for a small bead, guess I will have to work on the physics of that move.

My tool rest is usually set at the height of the center of the spindle being turned, is this correct?

Curt, this is interesting, because my problem seems to happen most often when going to the left or towards the head stock. I am somewhat ambidextrous, so switching hands works easy for me. Maybe my right brain running my left hand works better than my left brain running my right hand.

Talk about the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing.

So now, I will have to pay attention to the details and see if it can be figured out.

Thanks again,

jim

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jim....Riding the bevel is the mantra for a skew user! Yes...that's exactly what it means as you described it.

As Bernie recommended get Alan Lacer's video "The Skew...Dark Side-Sweet Side". In it Lacer shows you how to sharpen a skew. He recommends beginners start with a straight skew. Then he recommends a curved skew. He shows you how to use the skew and how if you don't use it correctly, you will get "skate" as you describe.

With a few weekends of practice, the skew has become my favorite tool. Bernie preaches the skew too! For roughing out...turning pens....most spindle work....the skew can and does leave a finish that often sanding damages the skew's finish. It is a great tool but requires technique and practice. Once you learn....you'll wonder how you ever got along without it. Don't give up! It takes technique and practice. If I can do it...anybody can.

[Dean Thomas]

You've gotten a boat load of good advice and good things to work toward.

The Skew is a tool that needs to be used "intentionally". You can use a gouge with one hand once you start the cut and finish it pretty well. Not so with the skew. YOU have to control it at all times and you have to concentrate more than with other tools. Focus would be a good word, too.


Thanks all for the help, I am a little unclear on "riding the bevel" is this keeping the edge and the bevel on the piece being cut? That seems a bit difficult for a small bead, guess I will have to work on the physics of that move.
"The bevel" is an issue. "Riding" is an issue. It took someone really persistent to help me understand that all that ground area on the skew is the bevel, but keeping ANY of that ground area in contact with the wood at the same time as the cutting edge is using the bevel to guide the cutting edge.

"Riding" is a huge misnomer for me, worse than "rub" the bevel. Lots of words might also be used: glide, float, engage. The bevel needs to have contact with what it is you want cut. Yes, very, very fine line and one that is really easy to cross from nice cut to catch. Just like shaving your skin (trying to be diplomatic for both gent and lady turners/shavers). You don't scrape those hairs off, you slice them. And you slice them by keeping the bevel in contact with the skin. If you lift the bevel off the skin or if you move left to right instead of to and fro, you have a nick or a slice where you don't want it. Same with the skew.

And if you do not get the edge sufficiently engaged that the little teeny bit of bevel immediately behind the edge can guide it, it'll skate. It's not a question of muscle, but you do have to absolutely control the tool until you are properly engaged.

Hope it helps.

[Jeff Nicol]

You've gotten a boat load of good advice and good things to work toward.

The Skew is a tool that needs to be used "intentionally". You can use a gouge with one hand once you start the cut and finish it pretty well. Not so with the skew. YOU have to control it at all times and you have to concentrate more than with other tools. Focus would be a good word, too.


"The bevel" is an issue. "Riding" is an issue. It took someone really persistent to help me understand that all that ground area on the skew is the bevel, but keeping ANY of that ground area in contact with the wood at the same time as the cutting edge is using the bevel to guide the cutting edge.

"Riding" is a huge misnomer for me, worse than "rub" the bevel. Lots of words might also be used: glide, float, engage. The bevel needs to have contact with what it is you want cut. Yes, very, very fine line and one that is really easy to cross from nice cut to catch. Just like shaving your skin (trying to be diplomatic for both gent and lady turners/shavers). You don't scrape those hairs off, you slice them. And you slice them by keeping the bevel in contact with the skin. If you lift the bevel off the skin or if you move left to right instead of to and fro, you have a nick or a slice where you don't want it. Same with the skew.

And if you do not get the edge sufficiently engaged that the little teeny bit of bevel immediately behind the edge can guide it, it'll skate. It's not a question of muscle, but you do have to absolutely control the tool until you are properly engaged.

Hope it helps.

Dean, Great way to explain the skew and it's issues!

Jeff