RUST: I hate it, how to prevent it...

[Mac Houtz]

I have been lurking on here for quite a while and I have noticed that there are several forum members and neanderthals who are from Williamsburg. I am hoping they or others might be able to help me with a problem.
100% of my woodworking takes place in an electrified but unconditioned barn-shop in Tidewater Virginia.(Think 100% humidity in the summertime). All my handtools are thus stored in said barn. I try to keep all my chisels, planes scrapers etc, antique and new, free from the budding rust that seems to plague them, but nothing seems to offer a permanent solution other than constant attention. Especially my chisels: currently they are all stored spaced apart in the lower, lined drawers of a snap on tool box, and they always seem to develop some surface rust fairly quickly no matter what I coat them with. (and no, the barn roof does not leak). I am also on the water, so the salt air doesn't help one damn bit...
I am in the process of building a new tool cabinet that will have drawers to house things like chisels, angled shelf-slots for planes, and brackets to hang saws on. Is there any way to line the drawers with some sort of material or fabric that could be impregnated with oil and thus help my tools stay shiny and rust free? Is there something I can use on tools that are going to be hanging on a peg? This is getting to the point where I just want to take all of my nice tools in the house to live with me....but I dont know that the wife will stand for that.....

Any help would be appreciated....

[John Keeton]

Try this http://www.rustbloc.com/cgi-bin/dept?dpt=H&srch=AW

There are other brands, and I use these in my cabinets. Seems like I got them from either Lee Valley or Peachtree????

[Mark Roderick]

Rather than lining the cabinet with a special material, you might try heating it just a bit, perhaps with a very small space heater turned way down? I'm thinking that if you could drop the relative humidity a little, from 80% to 60%, that might do the trick. Has anyone else tried this?

[george wilson]

You aren't in good circumstances. THE OLD TIMERS used to keep lumps of camphor in their machinist's chests. It did work. The chests were kept closed,of course. I used to buy lumps of arifical camphor in the drug stores. Don't know if they still have it. If you google around,I'm sure you could find it. The camphor gradually evaporates away,so if you must buy a supply,keep it tightly wrapped up. I'd GUESS that aluminum foil,then Saran wrap over it would be o.k.,but I never tried to store it as I got it locally. It might attack the Saran wrap,so keep an eye on it.

Of course,the piece you are actually using is left unwrapped in your toolchest. Many an old toolchest has smelled of it,and many of those old chests were used in shipyards around here. There seemed to be a very slight touch of wax like coating on the tools,and they weren't rusty.

[Mac Houtz]

if those Rustbloc things work that might do the trick....

As far as heating it up goes, I think theoretically it would work just as you say. Unfortunately in practice, if I put a space heater in my shop I might as well call the volunteer fire department and tell them there is a practice burn in their near future and to be ready...

I thought about camphor, but like you not sure about procuring it etc...

[Brent Smith]

I use the Bullfrog rust inhibitors John does, and also a silica gel absorbent in each drawer or cabinet I keep tools in http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=53828&cat=1,43326 . I also run a dehumidifier during the spring and summer months when humidity here can get pretty intense.

[george wilson]

You could get a damp chaser,like they use inside pianos. They are electric rods,about 18" long,IIRC. They stay abouit as hot as real hot water,and keep the humidity low. I just remembered I have one in one of my cabinets. Only a few degrees warmer that outside temp keeps things from rusting.

[Pedro Reyes]

Not sure this would work in your circumstances, but you could try desiccant, easiest/cheapest source would be kitty litter, put that in a sock or cheese cloth or women's stockings and have them inside drawers, switch them regularly, you can if you have the patience bake them dry in the oven, but kitty litter is not expensive so up to you.

/p

[Justin Green]

http://www.silicagelpackets.com/

Has anyone tried these?

[Bruce Page]

Or… you could move to New Mexico. I apply past wax once or twice a year, whether the tools need it or not.
Of course we don’t have very much hardwood out here and what we do have is ridiculously expensive, but there’s always tradeoffs. :rolleyes:

[george wilson]

The damp chaser is your best option.

[Dominic Greco]

Mac,
A friend of mine who collects firearms suggested that I look into Goldenrod Dehumidifiers (http://www.goldenroddehumidifiers.com/) They are just installed in your cabinet and they keep the humidity low enough so that you don't get that spontaneous rusting you are exhibiting.

I plan on installing on in my tool cabinet sooner or later. But for now I have the Rust Inhibitors as sold by Lee Valley. The rust inhibiting pads have been cut up and each of the (6) drawers got a nice sized piece. I have one canister in each side of my cabinet near where my planes are stored.

This being said, I STILL get a bit of rust on my planes if I don't wipe them down just before I put them away for the night. My sweat seems a bit more corrosive than others! So each night after I'm done working, I wipe down the planes and other tools I used with Johnson's Paste wax or some Renaissance wax.

[george wilson]

The goldenrod is the same as the damp chaser,except for the color.

[David Martino]

There was a thread here a while back (can't find it now...) and in addition to the above, some people mentioned using a simple low-watt light bulb in closed cases to add a little heat and keep condensation from forming. Probably a low-tech version of the heater bars?

[Jim Koepke]

Gee, this could even warm up the planes. Currently they are freezing when I go out to the shop on cold days. There is a small heater out there, but fear of fire and the cost to run it have me turning it off. The dehumidifier freezes up on cold days also. No problem for me to work in the low 40s and high 30s, as long as the water does not freeze and break my lapping stones. Not sure if it got up to the 50s or not today, got so busy it wasn't noticed that the heater didn't get turned on. Usually open the doors if it is warmer outside then close them when taking the dog for a walk to the mail box. Just forgot about the heater when coming back and doing some more work.

jim

[Gregg Feldstone]

Has anyone tried both the Empire manufacturing products and the Bullfrog stuff? http://empiremfg.com/. If so, how would you compare them ?

Has anyone else found that tabletops seem to actually rust FASTER, after the first use of Topsaver?

[Greg Crawford]

I've seen the rubber mat liners treated with corrosion inhibiting stuff. Don't know if it works.

I buy kitty litter that has "dessicant" as the only ingredient. Around here I find it at HEB gorcery stores under there house brand name. I put some in a sock (washed first if it's old ;-) ), and put it with my tools. If I think it's saturated, I just replace it. It's the cheapest kitty litter in the store, so it's also economical.

There's also camelia oil and Boeshield T-9.

For my shop (along the Gulf coast, also 100% humidity), I got two BORG $90 window AC units. They don't keep it as cool as the house, but definitely help control the humidity, which keeps the shop comfortable enough not to be driven out by the hot, humid conditions. They cost about $1 a day running both for 8-10 hours a day. However, they will keep the temp. below the dew point at times (dew points here are mid to upper 70s at time), so opening the overhead door and letting in fresh, humid air instantly causes condensation on any exposed metal surface. The T-9 keeps rust off, but it's not slick, so I wax my machine tops after the T-9 dries. Applied 2-3 times a year and it works wonders. Wax by itself doesn't do much at all.

[David Keller NC]

Mac - As someone very aquainted with industrial corrosion inhibition, I feel for you. You have the worst possible environment, and that includes worse than complete submersion in seawater.

There is really only one thing you can coat your tools with that will really keep your them rust-free, guaranteed, while in storage in a non-conditioned environment - coat them with cosmoline. Materials like camilla oil, 3 in 1 and even boeshield T-9 does not provide a significant enough hydrophobic film thickness to ensure against moisture penetration over several weeks or months in the kind of environment you're in, though they will all be worlds better than clean steel or iron. There's good reason that the US Army packed rifles in cosmoline before putting them on a boat to Korea or Vietnam.

The only other choice is a sealed cabinet with some means of dehumidification control and a vapor phase rust inhibitor - preferably electric dehumidification, since you don't have the problem of remembering to check and re-charge a dessicant. This solution is not as hard as it sounds - "sealed" can be as simple as a metal mechanic's tool chest with rubber weatherstripping and a front-fold drawer protector, though a shop-built cabinet (out of plywood) can be made to seal far better than a commercial, off-the-shelf unit.

Lastly, this'll sound a bit goofy, but I've a number of antique tools to store, and the only place is the attic. That space gets near 100% humidity in the summer, so I went to the grocery store and purchase a bunch of the "disposable" left-overs containers. I added a silica gel packet, the tools, and some ferro-wrap rust inhibiting paper and sealed them. After a couple of years, no rust issues. Not a convenient storage system to work out of, but it is good for long-term storage.

[Eric Brown]

No, not the ones from a vacuum cleaner. There are some used for food storage that are about the right size. Pull a vacuum, seal, and no rust.

Eric

[Jacob Reverb]

Mac,

I live over on the Eastern Shore, so I feel your pain. I'll just throw a couple ideas out there:

1. Believe it or not, storing your tools in wooden cabinets/drawers will prevent rust better than storing them in metal drawers/cabinets. The wood acts as a thermal insulator to some degree (slowing down condensation, etc), and it soaks up some of the moisture/dew that we're constantly bombarded with. Tools rust less in wood cabinets. I didn't believe it until I saw it, but it's true.

2. Drain oil is your friend. I keep a squirt can filled with 50% drain oil and 50% kerosene. Anytime I'm finished with a tool or machine (TS, jointer, bandsaw, etc) for a while, I give it a squirt and wipe it down with a rag that I have saturated with the same stuff. When you want to use the tool again, just wipe off the oil film with some sawdust or shavings and have at it. I've tried a zillion different products for preventing rust, but nothing works as simply or reliably as plain ol' drain oil.

Hope this helps. Ain't living by the bay grand?

J

[Chris Kennedy]

Mac,

Welcome to the Creek.

As a fellow Tidewater inhabitant, I know exactly what you are talking about. I am always fighting rust. One of the things that has driven me nuts is during the summer is that I have been working in the shop, and I get rust spots from the drops of sweat that fall off of me. I keep my planes in plane socks in a cupboard, and they seem to be okay provided that I am not sweating all over them during the summer. At those times, I work at wiping them down and keeping them coated in Boeshield/paste wax/WD-40 -- something to slow it down.

I do have one suggestion for longer term storage. My wife's grandmother lives on Patrick's Creek off the Poquoson River. I was cleaning out her shed at one point and found toolboxes that were rusted beyond imagination, but the tools inside were almost spotless. The toolboxes hadn't been opened in at least twenty years, and the tools were older still (most were pre-WWII).

I think it was cathodic protection -- the electro-potential of the metal toolboxes was lower than the tools inside, so it rusted first. They use this to protect pipelines and the like. You basically hook your object to be protected to something of lower potential which you sacrifice.

By the way, I'm in Newport News near CNU if you are interested.

Cheers,

Chris

[Mac Houtz]

Thanks for all the helpful replies. Some of the things mentioned had occurred to me already, but some of the products were news to me and I am looking forward to trying them out.
I agree that the summertime when you are sweating all over the tools is probably the worst, but this thread was prompted by a discovery this past weekend in my chisel drawer. I just got done building a cradle for my first daughter late last fall, with a boatload of handcut dovetails, so all my chisels were out and in use as late as Dec 1st or thereabouts. At that time they were all cleaned well and coated with rem oil and some wax, but just in the two months since then, during some windy, cold, but humid weather some of my blue chips were getting surface rust spots etc.

I also agree that the metal toolbox is not helping matters one bit. It is a red snap on, but is painted so is much better protected than the chisels from corrosion. Knock on wood my planes all seem to do ok as long as I keep them coated.

Nice to hear from you Chris. I live up in Gloucester, but I work in the Blues every day, I am over in Oyster Point....

[Scott Wigginton]

Seems I'm not the only one fighting this losing battle, leaving the Penninsula to the Dismal Swamp hasn't changed things either.

Is the barn insulated? My detached garage is partially insulated and I've noticed my jointer on an uninsulated wall wants to rust much faster than the my other CI tools (even with a liberal amount of Boeshield).

I don't like the idea of using a space-heater for a long term solution (especially since it only solves the winter problem). I've been thinking about a dehumidifier once I get it sealed up better, tho with the recent drop in temps freezing might be an issue (gas bill said the avg last month was 38, 5 degrees colder than last year).