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Cliff Rohrabacher
02-18-2009, 9:04 AM
I have been messing around with sourdough yeasts.

Where I live, you can collect wild yeasts that will rise breads but, they don't have any remarkable flavor qualities. They are just not interesting.

There are other strains of yeasts like that wild yeast found in California on the coast that will impart a rich nutty sour-ish flavor. Others occur in places like New Zealand and even Russia. Each is different in the flavor they impart and often different in how fast they can grow.

I got a itty bitty package of dried wild yeast from SanFrancisco. I took me a while to get the culture up through about 10 days of feeding reducing the volume and feeding again a couple times a day but now I have a culture of starter that produces what I believe to be the best bread I have ever made. I've been baking bread domestically for more than 30 years. The texture, crust, flavor, and crumb were all better than any I'd achieved to date.

YA gotta toss out most all the culture and re feed over and over to get a "balance" ( whatever that means) of Lactobaccili and yeast to get the right flavor. The lactobacilli being more fragile than yeast.

A friend told me she gets her starter yeasts from Rasins which makes perfect sense given as how most come form California. She ties 'em in cloth bag and soaks 'em in a flour & water mix and squeezes the juice out of them when they plump. They she feeds the culture for about 15 days till she's got a good healthy culture of sttarter going.
I only paid $6.00 for my packet of dried yeast. But I liked her journey. It sounded appealing.

I may never buy commercial yeast again.

Benjamin Dahl
02-18-2009, 10:41 AM
Cliff, that sounds great. I make my own bread occasionally. I used to do it more and usually had good results but have not had the time recently. I have never tried gathering my own yeast but that sounds excellent. Good baking!
Ben

Jim Becker
02-18-2009, 11:19 AM
Thanks for that, Cliff. Very interesting and "food" for thought!

Belinda Barfield
02-18-2009, 11:22 AM
Can someone invent some "aroma broadcasters" (kinda like speakers, only for noses) for my PC. I would love to smell the bread baking. Sounds wonderful Cliff. Thanks for sharing!

Lee Schierer
02-18-2009, 11:43 AM
Can someone invent some "aroma broadcasters" (kinda like speakers, only for noses) for my PC. I would love to smell the bread baking. Sounds wonderful Cliff. Thanks for sharing!

What's better than the smell is a slice of still warm from the oven bread with a little butter and honey on it.

Chris Padilla
02-18-2009, 11:44 AM
Cool...we're good for somethin' out here on the left coast! :D

'Round here, grapes don't have enough time to be turned into raisins...they end up in an oak barrel...then a glass bottle.... :D

Paul Atkins
02-18-2009, 1:05 PM
About 7 years ago my wife and I made a starter from some wild grapes growing here in Chico. Changing it from wine to bread starter was the first step and then the feeding/waiting the next. We have been using this starter all this time and it has 'matured' over these years. One of the best concoctions is the sourdough waffles and pizza dough. Our latest variation is a whole wheat starter from the same original bit. Wonderful! The picture is of the whole wheat w/seeds we have been making every other week for a few months now. It's a 3 day process from refrigerator to hot bread, but just takes planning. I think I'll have some toast now with honey and butter ---------

jeremy levine
02-18-2009, 3:09 PM
Recently my wife brought home this book ( from the library)
http://www.amazon.com/Local-Breads-Sourdough-Whole-Grain-Recipes/dp/0393050556/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234987491&sr=1-1

It contains some amazing info and recipes really worth checking out (no pun intended). Right off some of the best breads I've made in 15 years came out of this book. Much of the books talks about yeasts and starters. BTW I have nothing to do with the authors other then buying his breads.

Joe Pelonio
02-18-2009, 3:43 PM
We've done sourdough for 25 or 30 years, and brought a starter with us from the San Francisco Bay Area in 1993. Unfortunately we failed to feed it and lost it a few years later. The natural cultures in the air down there are unbeatable. We have a new starter going now that's several years old but not the same. Maybe I need to order the SF yeast off the internet.

Cliff Rohrabacher
02-18-2009, 6:43 PM
there's a lot of sources:
http://www.sourdo.com/original_san_fran.htm
http://www.sourdoughbreads.com/
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/landing.jsp?go=DetailDefault&ref=ti&id=1522&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=ingredients&utm_content=sourdoughstarter&utm_term=sourdough+starter&gclid=COG3qOiFv5gCFQIyxwodNz6ocA#
http://www.sourdo.com/

Ben Franz
02-19-2009, 12:28 AM
I've been a home bread baker off and on for several years but haven't tried any wild yeast doughs yet. The process has been described as just like adopting a pet and I'm not quite ready to have to find a "starter sitter" as well as dog sitter every time we go away for more than a couple of days.

I have read that local wild yeasts tend to take over starters even if the original yeast was from, say, San Francisco. Has this been the experience of any of the bakers reading this thread? Just curious.

Cliff Rohrabacher
02-19-2009, 8:26 AM
The process has been described as just like adopting a pet

A pet you can stuff in the fridge and leave for a long periods preferably not exceeding a year.

You can dry it and store it in the fridge for long periods, or you can freeze it if you mix it with a little glycerin which will make the Lactobacilli a tad tougher than they would be otherwise.



I have read that local wild yeasts tend to take over starters even if the original yeast was from, say, San Francisco.

It can. Then again, it might not. I'd guess this has lots to do with how robust your local yeasts are as well as how exposed you leave your culture. If all you have is a cheesecloth between your culture and the world outside you'll likely get contamination.

At any rate local wild yeasts won't be harmful they'll just obviate the reason (flavor) you got a yeast strain from a place like California.

Joe Pelonio
02-19-2009, 10:23 AM
We keep ours in the fridge, take it out and feed it every Saturday and use some for baking. Besides bread, it makes fantastic pancakes but we have used it for cinnamon rolls and donuts too. Even made sourdough pumpkin donuts on Thanksgiving morning. I have gone as long as two weeks without feeding it and had no problem.

Michael Schapansky
02-19-2009, 3:07 PM
I made my starter from organic grapes. There is plenty of yeast to get a good Mother going. I used the method from the Bread Baker's Apprentice. Good book. Also the La Brea bakery cookbook has a good starter concoction in it. Now if I would only remember to feed it EVERY day, maybe I could keep it going.

Chris Padilla
02-19-2009, 3:25 PM
I made my starter from organic grapes. There is plenty of yeast to get a good Mother going. I used the method from the Bread Baker's Apprentice. Good book. Also the La Brea bakery cookbook has a good starter concoction in it. Now if I would only remember to feed it EVERY day, maybe I could keep it going.

Well, if you have kids, treat it like one of your kids. If you don't have kids, then PLEASE, do not have any!!! ;) hahaha :D

Dan Mages
02-19-2009, 3:36 PM
I hate being the dissenter here, but those sourdough kits from exotic locations are all but worthless after about 1 week as local yeasts will take over the starter. If you want a good book on the theory and practice of maintaining starters and such, pick up a copy of Allen Scott's Bread Builders.

2 bits,

Dan

Dan

Joe Pelonio
02-19-2009, 3:55 PM
With the starter covered in the refrigerator, how do the local yeasts get in there, just from when you open to feed or use it?

Tim Morton
02-19-2009, 7:01 PM
i thought this was a music thread...:cool:

Michael Weber
02-19-2009, 7:37 PM
I've baked bread as a hobby for many years. Tried sourdough for a while but lacked the discipline to properly keep it. Ordered my original starter yeast from a place that collects from all over the world. My particular strain was from the middle east. All the rage now in bread baking circles is 'kneadless bread' which is kind of like sourdough in that very little bread yeast is used in a very wet dough. This creates a long rise period similar to sourdough but without the sour taste which some people don't like (my wife):rolleyes: It does give the dough time to develop it's own flavor by conversion of starch to sugars. The wet dough is baked in a covered iron pan at 500:eek: degrees. Lots of info on the web about it. search for New York Time minimalist bread. It creates a great tasting open, stretchy crumb and a crackling crust.