On the precipace; help me out please

[Rick Moyer]

I have often thought about getting a lathe but have resisted because of 1. lack of knowledge
2. not much room
3. not much $$ in pocket
I was looking at reward offerings on my credit card and I can get a Jet mini, albeit without the other stuff I would need to buy (I know, it's a long list). Anyway, I have some questions, some I think I know the answer to and some I don't.
What I think I know:
A. I might get hooked and eventually want a bigger lathe, but may not be able to afford one anyway, so a mini it will be
B. Would prefer to be able to turn small bowls and vessels, but maybe pens, stopper, etc. might satisfy me:confused:
C. I could get either of 1014VS or 1220 (not VS). I like the 3/4hp of the 1220 but concerned about the low end rpm

What I don't know:
D. What "must have" items I would also need ASAP. Tools, obviously, but what else?
E. What could I turn on either lathe besides pens and stoppers? Do some of you JUST turn pens, etc, and are happy with that?
F. how large a bowl/vessel/HF could I reasonably make on either lathe, and which would you choose and why?

As you can tell, I don't have any experience with turning, but I know many of you didn't either when you got started. I don't have anyplace nearby that I know of to tryout or be mentored, so I would have to learn on my own. Some books/dvd suggestions would also be appreciated. I may not even "step over the edge" yet; still contemplating.

[Sean Troy]

There are a lot of benefits of starting out with a mini-lathe. You are forced to learn how to take light cuts, a major plus down the road. The cost when first starting out also. When and if you decide to continue turning and want to upgrade to a larger lathe, you can keep the mini for turning smaller parts of a larger project. Jets are good and from my experience, have good customer service. Find your local turning club and attend a meeting. Ask lots of questions.

[Frank Kobilsek]

Rick,

I am impressed with the fairly new Jet 1220 (I think that's it), Bigger than a 1014, yet still portable. Take a look at that one. It would do small bowl and vessels along with the pens, stoppers, etc.

Just jump and don't look back

Frank

[Jeff Nicol]

I have often thought about getting a lathe but have resisted because of 1. lack of knowledge
2. not much room
3. not much $$ in pocket
I was looking at reward offerings on my credit card and I can get a Jet mini, albeit without the other stuff I would need to buy (I know, it's a long list). Anyway, I have some questions, some I think I know the answer to and some I don't.
What I think I know:
A. I might get hooked and eventually want a bigger lathe, but may not be able to afford one anyway, so a mini it will be
B. Would prefer to be able to turn small bowls and vessels, but maybe pens, stopper, etc. might satisfy me:confused:
C. I could get either of 1014VS or 1220 (not VS). I like the 3/4hp of the 1220 but concerned about the low end rpm

What I don't know:
D. What "must have" items I would also need ASAP. Tools, obviously, but what else?
E. What could I turn on either lathe besides pens and stoppers? Do some of you JUST turn pens, etc, and are happy with that?
F. how large a bowl/vessel/HF could I reasonably make on either lathe, and which would you choose and why?

As you can tell, I don't have any experience with turning, but I know many of you didn't either when you got started. I don't have anyplace nearby that I know of to tryout or be mentored, so I would have to learn on my own. Some books/dvd suggestions would also be appreciated. I may not even "step over the edge" yet; still contemplating.
Rick, I love the varible speed on any lathe, the versatility is a must have for me. The others without VS are just fine. If you ever think you would want to turn a large out of round object then the VS is important IMHO. You must get a chuck of some sort as the ease of change and variety of sizes they can hold helps in just about every step in turning. The tools that are a must have is a good bowl gouge and a good heavy scraper plus the standard skews,spindle gouges, parting tools. The question "what can I turn on either lathe besides pens and stoppers?" That is a question that only you can answer, after you learn some things or see something that you want to turn then you can try and turn it. The only thing that will limit you is swing over the bed, legnth of bed and the power to turn what you may want to turn. If you have a very active imagination you will want to turn everything and anything.

So what it boils down to you have to start and see where it goes, I started with 1 cheap 12"x36" lathe and now have 3 lathes with the big one the PM3520B and the original one and a Steel City mini lathe. If you love the hobby of turning you will continue to grow and expand your abilities and desires to turn bigger and more involved things. Your questions have to many variables for us to answer until something specific comes up.

Either of the lathes are great to start, but as is always saed buy the biggest lathe you can at the time and go from there!

Good luck and have fun,

Jeff

[Gordon Seto]

Join the local AAW chapter first.
http://www.woodturner.org/community/chapters/LocalChapters.asp
It is the best value and has the best resource. Don't rush into buying; know what you want to do and start from there. There are a lot of stuff that looks useful in catalog description, but you can better do without them.
I personally like variable speed. If I have to choose between the two, I would get the 1220. The importance of VS is more obvious in larger lathes. The 1014 and 1220 are really good within its capacity. The limitations on the 1014 are its capacity and horse power; the 1220 is a big upgrade in both area. With that being said, I would wait for the opportunity for the 1220VS. It has a slow speed of 200 (vs. 500 of the non VS model), which is more beneficial for slightly off balanced turnings. I have the 1014VS, which I was very pleased with. I bought the 1220VS mainly because of the slow rpm.

[Aaron Wingert]

As much as I'd encourage anyone to get into turning, be aware that the cost of the lathe is about half of what you'll spend to really get started right. It isn't just a lathe and a cheap set of tools...Then there's a slow speed grinder or other system for sharpening (which you can't really get along without), a chuck, pen mandrel, and all sorts of other necessities. Not to mention the wood.

I agree with what was said about getting a variable speed lathe. I have a Jet 1220vs, and can't imagine not having the ability to slow it way down using the VS dial on the low speed belt setting.

[Belton Garvin]

I have the Jet 1220 non-VS and have been pretty happy with it. Changing the belts is not a big deal (you get tired of it, but not a big deal). The extra 1/4hp over the 1014 is a big plus as well as the extra capacity. In reality you aren't going to throw a 12x20 block on the lathe and expect it to work out. I have put on a 11x7 blank of green maple and it handled it pretty well. It took a little bit to get the blank roughed down having to take light cuts to keep from bogging the motor but still succeeded. IMHO the 1014 is just too small for anything but pens, stoppers and trinkets. Once you start turning you will want to turn anything you can get your hands on and it will inevitable get to be bigger than your lathe can handle...even with the 1220, but it's a great entry lathe.

Mandatory items needed.
1. A stand, either metal or wood, but something to get the lathe at the right level and stable.
2. Turning tools. If you can afford them get good ones, otherwise buy a set of Craftsman or Harbor Freight to get buy with and learn on.
3. Sandpaper. The pen rolls work pretty well for anything you can turn on these lathes.
4. CA glue. Just got to have it. You'll understand once you start turning.
5. Safety gear. Glasses or shield, Respirator for sanding. Smock is a nice to have item.
6.Grinder for sharpening your tools. A jig is helpful also.

If you get into pens they are very deceiving. Each different style requires a different drill bit and bushing set. Those can add up pretty quick depending on the quality of drill bits. I bought my lathe originally to turn pens, Including the lathe I had spent almost $1000 before I turned my first pen. Real Eye opener! Very worth it!

Hope this helps and doesn't scare you away. Just realize its a deep vortex you will probably never recover from.

Bear

[Curt Fuller]

Rick, I would personally go for the 1220 simply for the larger swing. VS is nice I'm sure but if you've never had it you wouldn't miss it. Changing speed with step pulleys takes only a few seconds. Also, regardless of whether you decide you want a large lathe someday down the road, you'll still use the smaller lathe for small turnings. One observation I've seen over the years on the forums is that most people with the big lathes, PM, Oneway, etc still turn things in the 6-8" range. Even a 10" bowl can easily be turned on a 12" lathe and that's a pretty nice sized bowl. Plus larger wood can be hard to come by and even harder to keep from cracking.

To go along with your lathe the first thing I would suggest beyond a basic group of chisels, would be a good scroll chuck. I'd recommend a Oneway Talon but there are other good ones that are less expensive. I turned for a couple years without a chuck and it's sort of like driving a car without an engine. Fred Flintstone could do it but it makes such a huge difference to be able to hold wood on the lathe with a chuck. Get a 3/8 bowl gouge, a 3/8 spindle gouge, either a 1/2" bowl gouge or a roughing gouge for your rough turning, a 1/2" square and round scraper, and a parting tool. Once you've figured out how to use those tools then you'll better understand the use and need for some of the specialty tools and you can get them as you need them.

[Rick Moyer]

Join the local AAW chapter first.
http://www.woodturner.org/community/chapters/LocalChapters.asp
It is the best value and has the best resource. Don't rush into buying; know what you want to do and start from there. There are a lot of stuff that looks useful in catalog description, but you can better do without them.
I personally like variable speed. If I have to choose between the two, I would get the 1220. The importance of VS is more obvious in larger lathes. The 1014 and 1220 are really good within its capacity. The limitations on the 1014 are its capacity and horse power; the 1220 is a big upgrade in both area. With that being said, I would wait for the opportunity for the 1220VS. It has a slow speed of 200 (vs. 500 of the non VS model), which is more beneficial for slightly off balanced turnings. I have the 1014VS, which I was very pleased with. I bought the 1220VS mainly because of the slow rpm.

Unfortunately the closest AAW chapter is an hour or so each way; not out of the question, but also not likely to happen often. I suspect I'd be doing more self-learning. Thanks to all of you for your responses. From my readings elsewhere there doesn't seem to be a consensus on variable speed vs. not, with cost figured in. I'm leaning toward bigger over variable within a certain budget, therefore the 1220 may suit better than the 1014VS. The 1220VS would be nice but would overstretch the funds, given the other stuff need to purchase. If and when;) I "jump" I 'll keep you all posted. Meanwhile I'll keep reading responses to my questions.

Assuming a purchase of a 1220, what would you recommed specifically as far as a chuck for small bowls, and what specifically of the other "must-haves"?

[Cyril Griesbach]

There are a dozen AAW clubs in PA and the link Gordan provided is where to find them. Locate the one nearest you and contact them and get hooked up because:
1. You will find lots of helpful people willing to get you started
2. Most clubs have a lending library of books, videos, possibly lathes and
tools.
3. You will most likely be able to find someone willing to mentor you with issues such as sharpening, tool choices, simple and inexpensive ways to mount wood for turning and lots more as you get started.
4. Give serious consideration to the Jet 1220VS for most of the reasons already given in this thread.

In addition to my PM3520 I also have a jet 1014VS on which I've turned small bowls, hollow forms, plates and platters, pens, bottle stoppers, various spindle turning projects to name a few. Many turners doing beautiful work have nothing but a mini. I have a friend in central Illinois whose shop is in a closet in his apartment and does some beautiful work. I know of others who pull out the mini and go to work in their kitchens producing lots of special things. A mini lathe is not necessarily a limitation and other than some gouges and other (most not truly necessary) tools a must have is a grinder to sharpen your tools and a jig system is a definite PLUS.

Welcome to the wonderful world of turning and keep us posted as to your progress.

[Brian Brown]

Unfortunately the closest AAW chapter is an hour or so each way; not out of the question, but also not likely to happen often. I suspect I'd be doing more self-learning.

Rick,

My budget and shop space both say I can only have a mini. It has served me well, and I have been able to make some fairly large items. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=60154 This one is about 10" high and 6" wide. I have also made platters that are about 10" diameter. When you turn something about 8-10 inches, you run into some Horsepower and torque issues, but it still works. You will just have to spend a little extra time, and be lighter on the cuts (or the motor bogs down). Slow speed is a must for turning out of round blanks. I have tried it on my mini (slowest speed 500rpm). It is hard on your lathe, and dangerous.

As for what you have to have: Lathe obviously, grinder to sharpen, tools (don't get too carried away here), and an experimental attitude. A chuck is not a have to have item, but you will find that it soon becomes a really, really, really, really, really, really want to have item. There are some really inexpensive chucks out there, and they make good requests for Christmas/birthday gifts. Of course you will spend the rest of your life aquiring every other turning gadget, and some will be more useful than others, but that is part of the hobby.

As far as finding a turning group in your area, contact the group no matter how far they are away from you, and ask if there is somebody closer to you who could mentor you. There may be more than one. If so, carpooling to the meetings may be a reality. I find that you can learn more talking to people on the way to a meeting sometimes than you do at the metting. You may also find a used lathe through your wood turning group. If not, I find that minis are often available on Craig's list. If there is a mentor nearby, he/she may be able to help you determine if a lathe is in good condition, and if it is a good buy.

Good luck! We expect to see pictures of your work right away! :D

[Kirk Miller]

Rick,
Get as much Lathe as you can afford. I turn on a Jet 1014vs right now. I have made bowls, vases, and quite a few bottle toppers. I would set your size limit at around 8 inches in diameter. That much really taxes the lathe. You just have to slow down and take your time. Do I wish I had a bigger lathe.......You betcha! I had no idea I would enjoy turning so much. I bought the lathe so I could make custom handles for the Custom rods I build. I havn't made one yet. I am too busy perfecting my lathe skills.....lol You could look into a local turners group. I know mine offers classes. That would allow you to get your feet wet and see if you like turning. I could go on and on about getting started in turning. I really enjoy it but I know its not for everyone.

Kirk

[Bill Bolen]

Great advice from all above...now just close your eyes and jump...I promise we will catch you...Bill..

[Bill Bulloch]

I bought the Jet 1014 back in October; in December I bought the Jet 1236. It didn't take long to realize that I needed a bigger lathe. I'd recommend you get the 1220.

The 1014 has a spindle reach of 14 inches, but after you add the Chuck and the Spar Center you can only turn an 11 inches Spindle. Then if you are going to turn a Pepper Mill, for example, you'll have to add the drill check and forster bit, and that will restricted you to a 6 inch Pepper Mill. But, with the 1220 you'll be able to make a 10 or 12 inch one.

You'll soon want to move up from the 8 inch bowls and the 1220 will let you turn a 11 inch bow.

The 20 inch reach of the 1220 will let you turn longer items like the Rolling Pen.

I like the viriable speed. Having said that ,though, let me assure you that changing the belt speed on the Jet lathe is real simple and only takes a few seconds.

[Brian McDermaid]

Rick, 3 months ago i was in the exact same spot. I wanted to get into turning but wasn't sure i wanted the 'commitment'.

For xmas my wife bought me a semi-complete package from Penn State Industries that included a midi lathe, a few tools and everything needed to make pens/pencils (here is the link (http://www.pennstateind.com/store/TCLPROXX.html)).

By the end of day xmas i had a shop full of wood chips and a handful of pens & pencils.

Total cost: ~$250.

From there it goes downhill...

If you don't have a grinder you'll need one (i already had a crappy Ryobi 6" that i use): $50-$200.

That grinder will need a good aluminum oxide grinding wheel (80grit seems to be the favorite): $20-40

You also might need some type of sharpening jig (The Wolverine (http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=125676&FamilyID=1998)is popular.. i made my own for free): $0 - $150

At this point i was able to turn a few salt/pepper shaker's... fancy pens and pencils (more $$ for bushings and kits).

Then you get bored with spindle work and want to move into face turning (BOWLS!!).

Chuck: $45 - $300 (i bought the Nova Midi @ $90)
Bowl Gouge: $20-$100 (PSI 1/2" bowl gouge @ $20, scraper 1/2" @ $18)
I also had to buy a fingernail sharpening jig (http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=125677&FamilyID=1998): $50 (you may have luck making your own... i didn't)

You'll also need...
wood
sandpaper
exotic wood
finishing supplies
fancy figured exotic wood
face mask
dust protectors (so the fancy figured exotic wood won't kill you)

and the list goes on!!!

Last weekend i turned my first bowl... The part of my garage that i used to call my shop has now turned into 'my studio' :cool:.

I guess my point is... spend however much $$$ you feel comfortable with and block out how much you spend on the rest. In my mind i spent $250 (and i'll never add up the rest :)).

~Brian

[Reed Gray]

If you are going to splurge anywhere, do it with the vs 1220. Once you get the variable speed, you can't live without it, unless you are going to specialize, and never need to change speeds. There is no drop off in torque in the lower speed ranges.

Another reason to contact the clubs is that of 'used' tools. Some one is always upgrading, and the cost is much lower than new. The demonstrations are my biggest learning experiences in my 11 years of turning. You can see things being done, and ask questions about how to do things. Of course, you can get several different answers on how things are done, but then you go home and experiment to see what works best for you. Most clubs will have a web page, and e-mail available. You can get on the lists, and pick and choose which demos you want to go to. There probably are some turners in your area, and like me, most of us can't resist talking shop.

Are you planning to sell any of your works? Once word gets out, you can find it pretty easy to support your habit. If you are going to sell bowls, the smaller ones sell okay, but you really need bowls in the 12 to 14 inch range. That may be a while down the road. My first lathe was a 12 by 36, 4 pulley lathe. People kept asking me for bigger bowls. My big lathe paid for itself 3 times the first year I had it. I do have the Jet 1220 VS, and I use it mostly for lidded boxes. My big lathe is a Robust. Insert 'Tim the Tool Man Taylor' proto-simian grunts here......

I once figured that the formula of 'lathe cost = half of what you need to get going' isn't right. For me, it seems more like the lathe cost is maybe 1/4. But then, I have a lot of toys.

robo hippy

[Wally Dickerman]

Rick, I don't know what limit you've set for yourself dollar wise, but you can get into turning for no more than $500 if you want to. I taught classes at Woodcraft for about 10 years and we used the Jet mini, 1014 with no variable speed. You can find these for around $250. The quality is good. You will need a grinder if you don't already have one. The Woodcraft 8 in. slow speed grinder at under $100 is a very good choice. I have one myself.

Don't let anyone tell you that you must have a 4-jaw scroll chuck. They weren't even available before 1990. (long before most the turners on this forum were into turning) We turned lots of bowls without them. All you really need to get started is the faceplate that comes with the lathe. That's what everybody used in the old days. Actually a faceplate is the most secure fastening there is. You can use it along with a glue block.

Don't buy tools in a set. Depending on what kind of turning you plan to start out with, pen turning, bowl turning or whatever, you can get by with 4 or 5 basic tools to start. Add tools as you need them. I suggest that you buy quality tools but not the expensive premium tools. Craft Supplies has their Artisan line at good prices, and Penn State has a very low priced line, Benjamin's Best. They are M2, high speeds steel, the same as tools priced much higher.

All of the above is much better than I had when I started turning 70 years ago.

Wally

[Gordon Seto]

I am extremely lucky to live between two very active Clubs; 25 miles each way.
They don't call this hobby a vortex for no reason. This is a dark hole and very demanding on your wallet. Not everybody does things the same way. It is better for you to learn and form your opinion and spend your own money on your own priority.
Each of our Club has over hundred members. I know for the fact some of them are couple hours away each way. Usually they take turn car pool to the meetings.
There is nothing wrong with self taught. But I believe the resource from a local club would shorten your learning curve and save money. There are a lot of DIY version of tools that are as effective as store bought.
One alternative is to buy the best lathe you can afford and postpone the purchase of secondary things. Make and sell some small items from kits to finance your hobby.
Don't write off the local clubs. Most clubs allow you to attend couple meetings before you join (except when they have an outside professional demonstrator). A large number of members are retirees; you may be able to find another member close to you and willing to give you some mentoring.

[Rick Moyer]

Great advice all! stll thinking more than anything else.

[Dave Lehnert]

I am not a big woodturner. Just happed to read this post. I have very limited time on a lathe but have made many projects over the years. I learned in high school how to turn a bowl without a fancy chuck. Never know what one was till years later. Just used a faceplate with the blank glued to another block of wood with thick paper glued in between. Sharpened my tools on a $30 bench grinder.
All of the advice given by others is good. My point is as a beginner it can get scary fast reading what it will cost to get up to speed as the pros. Scary to the point where you may say "forget it" Just start out with a lathe and add as needed. There are many different ways to do the same thing.

[Dennis Ford]

I agree with Wally, most of the extra items are luxurys that you may want (and will probably get eventually) but don't actually have to have.
A good lathe is a must have.
A grinder is a must have.
Bowl gouge, spindle gouge, skew & parting tool are must haves.
A faceplate is a must have, I would recommend having at least two.
These basic tools will let you learn how to turn and then you can add items as you want to spend the money. If money is tight you can turn a whole lot of stuff with just the items above, I did it for years.

I have a 1220 (not VS) and it is a great lathe. In my opinion the minimum speed of 500 is reasonable for this size of lathe, I may be biased on this as I also have a large lathe for the big or out of balance stuff. Anything that can not be turned at 500 rpm would require a lot patience anyway.

[Dean Thomas]

Gary's right. Don't buy yet. Join your local AAW chapter and LEARN some. Visit shops and see the what and why.

Yup, after a lathe you need at least two things: Tools & a way to sharpen 'em.

Harbor Freight's more expensive set (under $50 normally, sometimes at $35) gives you a cheap set that will get you through the sharpening learning curve. Then buy Doug Thompson's tools one or two at a time as you grow. Woodcraft has their 8" grinder on sale for another week or so, $85 with decent wheels; that makes a pretty good start. You'll want other wheels later.

All that said, ANY Jet lathe is worth your while. EVS is a nice thing, but you can do a lot without it. Belt changes are seconds instead of instant, but hey, it just ain't that hard. When you're on budgetary restrictions, you might opt for the larger, more powerful lathe and put up with the belt changes. The 1220's low speed is 500 and goes up to 3900 (!). The low speed is sufficiently slow for roughing a 12" bowl safely, even if it is not balanced. Some would like it slower still for sanding purposes, but it is an okay speed for that, too. Very reasonable lathe from a design & usability perspective. A friend just bought a used 12" lathe with a "low" speed of nearly 1200rpm! NOT safe for 12" roughing. NOT NOT NOT.

Get somewhere and with some folks where you can lay hands on the basic 1220 and see it work. You won't be disappointed. And if you have the $$ to go to the EVS, go for it. I won't discourage it, but I will stand up and defend belt changing as a way of life. :)

[Jim Koepke]

My vote goes with those who say try before you buy. Some of the retail outlets have events like turning days when they turn pens for soldiers over seas. My wife and I happened in on one of these when we decided to just drop in to look at lathes. Got her on my side after that little demonstration and she made a few cuts.

The local school in my area has adult evening classes and that is where a little of my initiation took place.

A WTB ad on a 3X5 card in the local grocery got me an old used 14X30 lathe and tools for $100. That was about all we could really afford. Fortunately, my shop already has a power sharpener. You want one of those. Sometimes on hard woods you will want to sharpen half way through turning.

Variable speed is something I wish my lathe had. I am thinking of adding a belt and pulley set up to slow it down a bit. Even on the smallest pulley to biggest it goes faster than I like.

jim

[Clarence Sears]

The 1220VS is certainly nice, but the plain 1220 isn't bad to start. I've had mine for a year and it has been a terrific "teacher." As the guys have already said: it "teaches" you to take light cuts and generally use good technique. I have turned several 11x8" blanks (as long as they're reasonably balanced) and they have "turned" out fine. You just have to go slow and be sure your gouges are sharp. I personally like faceplates for most of the "heavier" turning, but if you want a nice chuck, look at the 3 3/4" Grizzly. I am told it's a copy of the Vicmarc chuck, which isn't a bad recommendation, and only costs about $100.

As far as tools are concerned: go slowly. A 3/8" spindle gouge and a 1/2# bowl gouge will do for starters. (Check out Highland Woodworking:their Bodger line is both inexpensive and very good for starters!) Go to Lowes and look for a two-speed 8" bench grinder (<$100 last I looked) then check out Mike Mahoney's sharpening video on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m8-8MNhpvY) for a great lesson in sharpening. When you can afford them, get a good bandsaw and dust collector. I am partial to the Grizzly line - outstanding value for the price! (I bought their 14" "Extreme Series" saw and 2HP dust collector. Combined with Timberwolf "green wood" blades from Suffolk Machinery, they're pretty tough to beat.)

Bottom line: relax, have fun and be safe!

[Rick Moyer]

I notice a slow speed grinder is recommended often for sharpening the tools. What about the flat surface sharpeners like the Worksharp, et.al.? Do they have the capability to sharpen gouges etc.? I don't have either one now so I would have to get something anyway. I have a small Delta grinder but it is not slow speed, I don't think.

Clarence, I already have a bandsaw but not as big as I'd like (G0555) and just got a cyclone (G0440), but we moved in December and I still haven't got the whole shop together yet. As you can tell, I like Grizzly as well, partly because I'm 30 minutes away and don't have to pay shipping!