Walnut Stair Problem

[Brett Nelson]

Alright everyone. I'm really needing some advice on this one. I'm trimming out my home right now and can't figure out how I should do this staircase. It is a U-shaped staircase with a landing about 2/3 the way up. Each tread is 4.5' wide. We've decided now that there will be a strip of carpet 3' wide running up the center of the stairs. The remaining several inches on either side will be trimmed in dark walnut. The bottom 1/3 of the staircase is open on both sides.

I know how I should've done this, by simply installing hardwood treads and risers. That wasn't in the budget. So intstead I probably should've pulled out my plate joiner and made treads with walnut on the ends only. Unfortunately I didn't do that, but instead I have them constructed of typical OSB risers and bullnose partical board treads, glued and ring shank nailed.

I've considered getting some walnut veneer and just veneering the tops of the treads up until where the carpet will start and then stopping about 1/2" shy of the front and outside edges. Then making some 2" bullnosed strips of 5/4 stock and rabbeting the backs to overlap the 1/2" of exposed PB tread as well as whatever material I've used to trim out the risers and skirt boards. I was thinking of doing the risers in paint grade, but not sure about that yet.

I had originally considered simply biscuit or slot joining the bullnose to the edges of the treads, but I think the rabbet might be stronger and it would give me 1" of overlapping material to glue/nail to the tread.

Those are my thoughts. Can anyone tell me if there is a better/easier way to accomplish this task. I really could use some help on this.

[Richard Wolf]

Sounds like you are doing a lot of thinking. Take a look at this product. It is designed to do just what you want to do. Making false tread caps yourself is not difficult and very cost effective.
http://buystairparts.reachlocal.net/Products.asp?cat=30&family=68
Let me know if I can be of any help with more questions.

Richard

[Brett Nelson]

Wow, I'm laughing at what a novice I am now. Thanks for the help.

[Chris Padilla]

That is a nice site, Richard! Too bad, Brett, but I don't see walnut in there although maybe a customized order might be in the deal? Good luck.

[Brett Nelson]

That is a nice site, Richard! Too bad, Brett, but I don't see walnut in there although maybe a customized order might be in the deal? Good luck.

Yeah, I found some other sites that make these parts that have walnut. Still though, it seems that $30/tread is a lot to pay for them unfinished. IF I get them prefinished it goes up another $15. I need 32 of them and I had really hoped not to be in the $1k range on this. I wanted to be more around the $300 range, but maybe that is unrealistic. I could use an alder or something so that I get a similar grain pattern and then just use a dark walnut dye stain.

[Brett Nelson]

Some of the manufacturers of these false treads make them out of solid wood and others out of veneered ply with a solid wood nosing. Would the veneered ply be acceptable if I were to make them myself, or should I get solid S4S stock? I think I will have to make them myself because they only really make them 5.5-6" wide and I need them about 7.5" wide otherwise I have 30% waste on a rather expensive carpet.

Also, I have two other questions.

How would you guys handle the landing on a U-shaped staircase. Would you just carpet the whole thing? Would you install T&G wood flooring over the whole landing? Or would you just do a perimeter of wood around the landing to corresponds in width to the false treads/risers?

Also, If I were to use veneered ply as a skirt board or false riser, how do I handle the junction between the two? Miter them or use some kind of molding?

[Richard Wolf]

I think you should make the false treads yourself. They are simple enough to make. Veneer ply will work fine, with a good finish, you will never wear into the wood.
The joint between the riser and the stringer, (skirt board) should be mitered.
The runner or carpet issue is up to you and your wife, but carpeting the whole landing is not uncommon and will look fine.
Good luck.

Richard

[Brett Nelson]

I think you should make the false treads yourself. They are simple enough to make. Veneer ply will work fine, with a good finish, you will never wear into the wood.
The joint between the riser and the stringer, (skirt board) should be mitered.
The runner or carpet issue is up to you and your wife, but carpeting the whole landing is not uncommon and will look fine.
Good luck.

Richard

Designer is urging me to go with stained treads and painted risers with a painted stringer. She also wants to see a full T&G wood landing. Not a problem. We would probably just do engineered hardwood anyway, and the cost is about the same for that as for the carpet.

[Brett Nelson]

Would you go with a T&G joinery to attach the nosing to the ply or would a biscuit do the job?

[Richard Wolf]

Biscuits will be stronger than T&G because of the grain direction.
I think the painted risers and stringers are a better choice. It is a very popular choice. I think the all wood look lacks some contrast that the wood and paint enjoys.

Richard

[Chris Krysinski]

I'll agree with painted stringers and risers. Very popular in my area, it's quite a classic and timeless look imo that will still be in style well into the future.

[Larry Edgerton]

Richard, I saw the pictures of the stairs you posted a bit ago and I was impressed. I don't get anything that dramatic around here.

Every time I see your picture, I just have a hard time seeing you on Long Island. You would fit in in the Mountians of Montana.....:)

[Richard Wolf]

Richard, I saw the pictures of the stairs you posted a bit ago and I was impressed. I don't get anything that dramatic around here.

Every time I see your picture, I just have a hard time seeing you on Long Island. You would fit in in the Mountians of Montana.....:)


Thanks Larry, I think. I mentally don't fit on Long Island. I have always thought about packing it all up one day and finding a place where I would make a better fit.

Richard

[Larry Edgerton]

Thanks Larry, I think. I mentally don't fit on Long Island. I have always thought about packing it all up one day and finding a place where I would make a better fit.

Richard

It was a compliment.

I kind of have the best of both worlds here. I do work for the rich and famous at their vacation homes, but the Upper Penninsula of Michigan is only 30 miles away. Work is slow right now, but its not a bad place to be hungry.......

[Brett Nelson]

Yeah Richard. That really was a great looking staircase. So far everyone agrees with you guys on the painted risers and stringer. The main reason that I was thinking all wood was because the railing will be iron ballusters. Every time I've seen painted risers with wood treads it is always combined with turned wood painted ballusters.

But I think you guys are on the right track here. That style is a bit more timeless and classic. Can you give me any hints on how to frame in the radius on the either side of the starting step. The railing will be over the post with volutes at the bottom. I wanted to do a wider starting step with radius ends.

[Richard Wolf]

Building a double bullnose starting step is a little difficult. I will try to get you pictures from my shop in the next day or two to help you out.
Briefly, it is a kerf bend and I use maple ply. The kerfs must be deep enough, almost into the last ply, and close enough, every 1/4", or you will end up with a faceted curve instead of a smooth radius.

Richard

[Brett Nelson]

Alright, I've hit another snag with these false treads. I was planning to build them out of 1/2" cherry ply. Problem now is that I can't find 1/2" cherry ply core. I can only get 1/2" cherry MDF core. So now I sit here wondering if the MDF core material is strong enough to biscuit join a nose onto. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Chris Padilla]

What kind of thickness is the cherry veneer on the MDF core?

In my Tansu (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=92396) project, I've biscuted walnut eding on MDF core with no issue but then again I'm not building stair treads that will be walked on either.... :)

[Brett Nelson]

What kind of thickness is the cherry veneer on the MDF core?

In my Tansu (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=92396) project, I've biscuted walnut eding on MDF core with no issue but then again I'm not building stair treads that will be walked on either.... :)

Evidently it is about 1/40" veneer. Really, these are going to be false treads that will only be on the outsides of the steps. There will be a carpet runner up the center. I don't know how much abuse the false treads will see. There will be a bullnosed starting step that will not have carpet on it, but I was planning on doing a solid hardwood tread on that one.

[Chris Padilla]

Evidently it is about 1/40" veneer. Really, these are going to be false treads that will only be on the outsides of the steps. There will be a carpet runner up the center. I don't know how much abuse the false treads will see. There will be a bullnosed starting step that will not have carpet on it, but I was planning on doing a solid hardwood tread on that one.

Ah, right...forgot about it being a false tread. In that case, I think you will be fine.

[Brett Nelson]

Ah, right...forgot about it being a false tread. In that case, I think you will be fine.

Yeah, still trying to decide what material to use for the painted false risers and finish stringer. MDF would be economical, but I'm sure that a maple ply would be stronger.