Complete Neanderthal ??

[Jack Dickey]

Has anyone gone completely Neanderthal and given up power totally ??

I've pondered this one for some time ..

[Chris Vesper]

Adam Cherubini almost certainly.

And the guys at the woodwork shop in Colonial Williamsburg are a definite.

There must be others out there... It's not me that's for sure. I prefer the best combination of machines to do the heavy millwork, and then cut all joinery and finish by hand.

[Joe Cunningham]

I've bought rough-sawn lumber and dimensioned it all with hand tools, but I don't chop down the tree or use a pit saw to cut the lumber. Not sure if that qualifies as a complete neander.

I now have a small bandsaw and use that for ripping, but otherwise am still all hand work. If I add another machine it would likely be a planer, but everything else I am fine with doing by hand tools. My sawing in particular has really improved as a result--I used to have to shoot the ends of boards A LOT, but now I am down to just a little touch up.

I am 100% sure my work output would be much higher (# of completed pieces) if I used mostly machines for the milling, but this is a hobby. I like the process as much as the finished product.

[Robert Rozaieski]

Yep, and I have no regrets. You do need to learn to think and work differently though in order to be efficient. If you think like a power tool user with regard to process it will take you a lot longer to do certain tasks. In my opinion, to really be effecient working without the aid of any power, you really NEED to "study" the 18th and early 19th century methods, even if you aren't interested in their furniture. These guys had no choice but to do it all by hand so they naturally found the most effecient ways to work.

I say study in quotes because you don't need to be a museum geek but you need to check out some old texts, challenge the modern day "common knowledge" and experiment yourself to see what works for you. Don't take everything that you read as gospel as very few people actually do it all by hand or take the time to really research how it was done when there was no other choice.

There is a lot of regurgitated bad information out there but there is also a lot of really good information out there as well. In fact, much of the bad information overshadows the good because so few people have actually taken the time to try something for themselves. Instead, "common knowledge" is regurgitated all over in magazines and online. It gets said so many times it becomes rule even though it makes no sense. You need to be able to sort through all the information and figure out the bad from the good for yourself. Unfortunately. the folks who had to do it all by hand aren't here anymore to tell us how it was done so we're really on our own to figure it out. That's what makes it interesting though [at least to me]. We're not just building a piece of furniture, we're experimenting and uncovering techniques and skills that have been lost for decades or longer.

If you read something, try it for yourself, then challenge it and try to do it better or faster or easier. Then come back and tell us what you find out so we can all learn from you. That's one of the cool things about it; there really are no experts on the techniques. We're all perpetually learning from each other. That makes it fun.

Whatever your reason, do it because you enjoy it or don't do it. If you give up your power but don't enjoy what a lot of folks consider the grunt work you'll find you're not enjoying your shop time as much anymore. The "grunt" work is a big part of the process. I like doing it so to me it's not grunt work, it's shop time ;).

Sorry for the long ramble :o. Sometimes I get a little lost in the moment :o.

Good luck with your decision!

[Justin Green]

If I knew how to cut dados in plywood by hand, I'd be down to a circular saw only... I have kitchen cabinets to build, and I'll likely not use hand tools on that because of the plywood.

Edited - I probably will use the router for dados...

[David Keller NC]

Justin - You can certainly cut dados in plywood by hand, but in my opinion it takes more than just a marking knife, a straightedge, a saw and a chisel. You can cut very accurate dados in solid wood with just those tools, but the cross-grain nature of plywood makes it tough to chisel accurately.

So if you want to do this in plywood, I'd suggest either a router plane in conjunction with the tools listed above, or considerably more efficient is a dado plane. The wooden versions can often be had cheaply at flea markets, you just have to sort through them to find the straight ones - they often warp like rabbet planes because the wooden stock is cut straight through. An alternative are metal planes - like the Stanley series. Generally speaking, the larger planes (5/8, 3/4) are much cheaper than the little ones (1/4, 3/8) - both are highly effective in conjunction with a wooden fence.

[Justin Green]

If I come across a router plane in good shape, I intend to pick one up. From planing on the bench I'm building, I've learned you can get by with sharpness that merely shaves hair for plaining with the grain or at 45 degrees to the grain, but for end grain or cross grain, that just doesn't cut it, no pun intended.

[David Keller NC]

Justin - While a Stanley that's complete (they're often not complete) or even a wooden router plane will do the job for you, this is one case where one manufactured by Veritas or Lie-Nielsen is a far superior tool - they made a lot of improvements over the Stnaleys when they came out with these. And if you don't like it, you can sell it for close to what you paid for it in SMCs classifieds.

[Robert Rozaieski]

Keep in mind that for dados, even in plywood, the joint surfaces don't need to be perfect, just the show surfaces on the outside of the case (if they are going to show). If you are covering with a face frame, the only part that matters is the inside of the case where the joint line will be seen. This should be scribed deeply with your knife for a clean line. The rest doesn't matter, especially the bottom of the joint. Dados are end grain glue joint and the glue doesn't provide much help keeping the joint closed. Most of the glue will be sucked up by the end grain anyway. For your kitchen cabinets it won't matter because you will likely be covering the exposed ends of the joint with hardwood trim or a face frame. Dados are really not a structural joint. Drive a few finish nails through the outside of the case, through the dados and into the ends of the shelves for extra hold. The only places where the nail heads will show is on the end panels, but you can make a nice decorative panel that looks like another door to dress up the end and hide the plywood box anyway. Looks better than a plain plywood box on the ends IMO.

[Jack Dickey]

Adam Cherubini almost certainly.


And the guys at the woodwork shop in Colonial Williamsburg are a definite.

There must be others out there... It's not me that's for sure. I prefer the best combination of machines to do the heavy millwork, and then cut all joinery and finish by hand.

I'm close to doing it ..

Adam's articles got my mind thinking about it again ..

I'm retired Navy , spent quite a few years in Norfolk Va , the guys in Williamsburg were probly glad to see me go ..

Pigeon Forge Tn ( DollyWood ) some years back had a buggy and harness shop , pretty big one , all hand tools , had a whole section of the park set in early 1800's , no power anywhere ..

[Jack Dickey]

Bob thanks for the ramble , may pick yur brain abt a few things soon ..

[Robert Rozaieski]

Bob thanks for the ramble , may pick yur brain abt a few things soon ..
Fire away ;). Just expect to get what you pay for :D.

[Randal Stevenson]

Yep, and I have no regrets. You do need to learn to think and work differently though in order to be efficient. If you think like a power tool user with regard to process it will take you a lot longer to do certain tasks. In my opinion, to really be effecient working without the aid of any power, you really NEED to "study" the 18th and early 19th century methods, even if you aren't interested in their furniture.

I am pretty sure (not home, so no link on this computer), the Guttenberg project has several (many?) out of print, woodworking books, which may cover several area's to learn from. Although, this does require the magic box you used to type to us on (not neander);)

[Jack Dickey]

Gutenberg project , forgot alla bout that one , will have to check it and see what they may have

[Wilbur Pan]

Has anyone gone completely Neanderthal and given up power totally ??

I've thought about it, until I realized that all the candles I would have to use to light my basement workshop would constitute quite the fire hazard. ;)

[Clay Thigpen]

Bob, your my hero :) as is anyone else that has started down the path to become totally Neanderthal.

Justin: if the dadoes are just to hold shelving then there are adjustable mechanical options for that and everything else could be totally hand tools just get a set of cabinet screwdrivers and your set.

Currently there is no electricity run to my shop. lol.

[Justin Green]

True - didn't think about drilling holes or any other means for adjustable shelving... duh.

[Jim Koepke]

Drive a few finish nails through the outside of the case, through the dados and into the ends of the shelves for extra hold. The only places where the nail heads will show is on the end panels, but you can make a nice decorative panel that looks like another door to dress up the end and hide the plywood box anyway.

Does blind nailing work on plywood? I do not use much plywood.

Blind nailing is where a sliver of wood is lifted and a nail is driven in the grove made by the chisel or blind nailer tool, then the sliver is glued down to cover the nail head. Lee Valley sells a tool just for doing this. It is a lot cheaper the the original Stanley #96 model.

I am not fully neanderthal. About the only electric tools used in my shop now are a band saw, a drill press and a lathe. My hand sanding looks much better than what comes from the orbital or belt sander. Power us used to sharpen blades at times.

jim

[Robert Rozaieski]

Bob, your my hero :) as is anyone else that has started down the path to become totally Neanderthal.

:o Please, I'm not qualified to be anyone's hero. I've done nothing that couldn't be done by anyone else. I'm just a guy who likes to work with wood. I'm not even that good at it.

[David Keller NC]

"Does blind nailing work on plywood? I do not use much plywood."

Jim - there's a better way to nail this joint, but it's harder to do than what Robert suggested. You nail through the underside of the shelf up into the panel side so that the end of the nail does not come through to the outside. Doing this at both the angle necessary to keep the nail entirely inside of the wood and at an angle to the front plane of the cabinet (and the nail at the back at the opposite angle) will make the joint just about impossible to take apart without splitting the wood. I believe the proper term for this is "toe nailing" and when it comes to a dado joint, is far stronger than glue.

[Wilbur Pan]

Norm toenailed dados all the time on the New Yankee Workshop.

I guess I should give a serious answer to the original question. Like Jim, I have a limited number of electron burning tools in my shop: bandsaw, lathe, drill press, and a jointer/planer combo. These choices were made based on tasks that I am not real good at (drilling straight and consistently), things that I just don't like doing (initial milling of boards), and things that can't be done completely by hand (turning bowls).

[Zahid Naqvi]

Well, if things go as planned by this Thursday the only power tool I would have left in my shop will be a bandsaw, which I can't bring myself to part with. I do have access to a jointer/planer if it comes down to it. But I plan to stay neanderthal. Ask me in a year if I regret the decision or not.:D

[Kevin Adams]

Hey Wilbur--

Here's someone who does turn bowls by hand:

http://www.robin-wood.co.uk/

If you have time, check out his videos on You tube and his blog. Good stuff.

Let me know when you are ready to part with your Conover lathe...

Take care,
Kevin

[Jeff Considine]

After mangling 3 fingers in the tablesaw in a split second of distraction, I'm in the process of removing as many tails as I can from the shoparage. I have MANY techniques to learn and a few tools to buy, but my experience so far leads me to wonder why I haven't done it this way all along.

I find myself slowing down, and enjoying the process more than ever, and for a hobbyist, it seems silly now that I felt like I needed to rush through a project with power tools. That's probably what lead to my 'accident' in the first place.

My handtool experience level is such that it takes me quite a while to do the most basic things, but I can see that improving over time, with a lot of help from the folks on this board.

Not sure if this is where you were headed with your original post, but I hope to be a happy neander in the near future.

[Jack Dickey]

After mangling 3 fingers in the tablesaw in a split second of distraction, I'm in the process of removing as many tails as I can from the shoparage. I have MANY techniques to learn and a few tools to buy, but my experience so far leads me to wonder why I haven't done it this way all along.

Still gots all ma fangers , I wonder the same thing you wondering ..

I find myself slowing down, and enjoying the process more than ever, and for a hobbyist, it seems silly now that I felt like I needed to rush through a project with power tools. That's probably what lead to my 'accident' in the first place.

Takes me forever with power , so wont be any different there

My handtool experience level is such that it takes me quite a while to do the most basic things, but I can see that improving over time, with a lot of help from the folks on this board.

My handtool experience is a little better than yours

Not sure if this is where you were headed with your original post, but I hope to be a happy neander in the near future.


Well thats where I'm headed I think , bein' a happy neander , slowin' down , and rethinkin' the way you work ..

Jus gives me more time to screw sumpthin' up ...

[harry strasil]

This is my 12 by 16 shop when I do public demoes. I think it qualifies.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/HNM1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/HNM2.jpg