What measurement tools should I buy (and where)?

[Greg L. Brown]

I'm new to woodworking and need some advice on buying measurement tools. It's tempting to just buy most of the measurement tools at a local Home Depot, because the price is so low. But I figure some high quality measuring tools really go a long way (that's what many of the books say).

My main question: Should I buy mostly from Lee Valley? Is there a better online store to buy measurement tools? Woodcraft seems good, but there's so many choices.

Here's what I was thinking to get:

Folding Ruler:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32560&cat=1,43513

6" Engineer's Square:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32601&cat=1,42936

4" Try Square:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32602&cat=1,42936

Mortise Gauge:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32621&cat=1,42936

Angle Bevel:
http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=404706&FamilyID=8510

I'm have a decent $20 combination square I got from Home Depot a year ago. I know it's not a Starrett, but I'm not willing to drop $80 on a combination square, yet(!). I also have a few decent tape measures, an Awl, and rulers, so I don't need any of those items.

Thanks,
Greg

[Chris Allen]

As far as squares....

I have the Starrett 4" double square, and 7" Incra square.

They were pricey, but I can't see myself having to replace either one of these in my lifetime.

http://www.amazon.com/Starrett-13A-Double-Square-hardened/dp/B0002FUM2Y
http://www.amazon.com/Incra-GSQR7-Guaranteed-Square-Precision/dp/B0000639X2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1234832873&sr=1-2

[Michael Peet]

I'm also a big fan of Starrett tools. They are solid and accurate.

I once made the mistake of buying a combo square at HD. It was lousy and I just replaced it with a Starrett. Buy cheap buy twice, as they say.

[Jacob Mac]

I use plastic drawing triangles for a lot of applications. They are cheap and made to tight tolerances. Square is square, so I try and go cheap.

I use Incra T rules for marking.

Also, story sticks are greeat, cheap to make, and very accurate. Relative dimensioning has really improved my work.

[Mike Henderson]

The things I use the most are:

12" combination square (I have Mitutoyo but Starrett is very good also)

6" combination square

6" rule (the Lee Valley one is very good - I have three of them)

24" rule (I have the Lee Valley center finder (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32570&cat=1,43513)one)

You can wait for the mortise gauge (you can make your own, if you want) and you'll almost never use the sliding T bevel.

Mike

[Dewey Torres]

Most of the stuff you listed is from LV and hard to ever go wrong there.

I would caution you on the bevel gauge. I had one like that with a wing nut and I hated it. I could never get it tight enough and when I did I couldn't get it loose. I have one now with a large round brass knob and it works like a champ. If you want, I can send you my old one but you are better off not accepting my offer IMO.

[Lance Norris]

Hartville tool is another good place to shop. Also, consider antique shops for tools. You can get great deals.

http://www.hartvilletool.com/

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Ebay is the scourge of Starret addicts. I think I have about one of every square and rule they have made. Picked up 7 different devices last night when I cleaned off the bench, all set for one specific repititious function. My advice? Ebay, Starret, Mitutoyo or Brown and Sharp. You don't need machinest quality tools for woodworking, but once you try them, you won't go back. Good used versions of these go for Borg prices for far better quality.

For a good starter kit, get a combo square and attachments. It's worth the $'s.

Just bought a new Starret this morning. Found out that I needed a yardstick that accuratly measured 1/16"'s. Got one now.

[Alan Frazier]

A caliper is great to have too I don't know how I ever got by without one, I bought one from grizzly awhile ago they don't sell it anymore but this one's almost the same.
http://grizzly.com/products/8-Decimal-Fractional-Digital-Caliper/H8374

[Jim Kountz]

The incra rules are really handy little suckers to have too.

[jeff begin]

I'm a beginner and one of my first purchases was a Starrett 6" combo square (mainly because I grew up the son of a tool and die maker). I picked it up from Amazon.com. It was expensive compared to Home Depot stuff, for sure. But $80 for a top-of-the-line tool that I frequently use but will never to replace is a good value.

I'm planning on buying a small aluminum triangle or two though (like the one's Woodpeckers sell) because I'm tired of getting glue on the Starrett when checking glue-ups. I learned from the Starrett that my cheap-o carpenter's speed square isn't quite square.

[Jeff Bratt]

Folding rules are usually well liked. Regarding the two squares in your list, an engineers square will do everything the try square will. Also, have you checked that your combination square is really square? If it is, then you're good to go. Otherwise, they can be adjusted. I like this (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32593&cat=1,42936,50298,43508) sliding bevel gauge MUCH better than the kind you linked to. However, I find I use a depth gauge (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5707&filter=depth%20gauge) and inexpensive calipers (http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100080103&N=10000003+90401+500512) much more than a bevel gauge. These last two are always in my apron (http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=995780#post995780) pockets, the digital calipers are in the toolbox for special occasions.

[Blake Barr]

I managed to get a starrett set with all three heads and 1 12" rule for under $115 shipped on ebay. Several peices where brand new in box... the others where as good as new.

[Rick Whitehead]

One of the handiest measuring tools is the 6" pocket rule made by General with the pocket clip. It's also one of the cheapest: about $3-4.
Rick W

[Gordon Peery]

Like the answers to so many threads; a lot depends on your nature and how carefully and accurately you like to work, and of course the kinds of projects that you will most often be making.

Since I'm not feeding the family from my shop production and being a nut for quality, I recently purchased a Chicago Brand #CB-50001S 6" Digital Caliper for $47.50 from a local tool supply. A little care and this tool will probably last a couple of generations!

This tool is particularly useful when working with expensive woods; perhaps stock that cannot be jointed or planed because of tear-out - hence drum sanded to thickness and then on to a router and jig for dovetail/finger/mortise-tenon joints. I've found that precise thickness of stock is really important for high quality jointery.

Happy Trails,

Gordon

[Craig Johnson]

I have a used Starrett 12" combination square available right now for 40.00 plus shipping if interested.

[Kevin Godshall]

+1 for the dial caliper. A must have if you get into surfacing and dimensioning your own stock, but very very helpful in measuring depths of dados, thicknesses of ply, etc.

[Doug Shepard]

You might be able to save a couple bucks on the folding rule at HD. I'm guessing that what they carry is probably a Lufkin which is pretty good, tho getting stuff from LV is always a good thing too.

For the bevel gauge, I would spend a bit more and either get the LV type with the fold down locking lever
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32593&cat=1,42936,50298,43508
or get the end lock type
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32594&cat=1,42936,50298,43508
I've got a Stanley UK with a locking knob on the end and I just cant use the other type any more. Every time you want to flip them over to get the angle from the opposite side, the big side lock piece often wont let you without actually changing the gauge.

[Bill Huber]

As a beginner the measuring tools I use the most are:

A digital caliper, it has really helped a lot with getting things just right.

A centering 12 rule.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=4978&filter=center%20rule

A Starrett 6" combo square.

I also have a good steel tape measure I got a Lowes, it is different then most in that when you pull it out it will stay out until you push the button. Unlike most that you have to pull out and then lock.

[Tom Adger]

I use a 6" dial caliper a lot. I have the one from Highland Woodworking, which is normally $29.99, and is on sale now for $19.99. I suggest you jump on it. If they want to charge shipping, see what other squares or rulers they have to add to the order. I also use an 18" steel ruler almost every day. Go to staples or office depot and get one. Try to find one which measures right up to the end.

[David Keller NC]

Greg - If you want to go inexpensive, you will not go wrong with Lee Valley's stuff for the most part - it will be much better than most things you can find at Home Depot.

Some suggestions about your list -

Give the folding rule a pass. Many people like them, but a Stanely Fat Max tape measure from Home Despot will cover your needs for long measurements (and you're going to wind up buying one of these anyway). You can buy a folding 6 foot rule later as a toy if you think you'd like to have one.

You don't need both a 6" and a 4" square. Buy a 3" or a 4" engineer's steel square (from Lee Valley if money's tight, from Incra or Starret if not) for machine setups and checking your work when building boxes, dovetailing drawers, etc...

Buy a 8" or 12" Johnson Level carpenter's square (they look like a larger version of the marples 6" square you linked to at Lee Valley) from Home Depot/Lowes/Sears. They're decent tools, and you'll use this one mostly for marking a perpendicular line across lumber in order to cross-cut it. Don't buy a framing square or a speed-square - they don't find much use in a cabinet maker's shop (though essential in house building).

You will need a marking and mortising gauge. The Crown tools version you linked to is -ok-, but many of us prefer wheel marking gauges. The king of these is the Tite-Mark from Glenn Drake Tools, and this is one plce where you do not want to skimp. You will use a marking gauge constantly, and one that doesn't stay tight and doesn't have a fine adjustment is very frustrating. If you'd like to economize here, buying the bare-bones Tite-mark will save you some money, and you can buy the additional accessories later. I would vote for the Tite-Mark over the Veritas model simply because of the versatility of the Tite-Mark.

Finally, buy a 6" rule. The Starrets are realtively inexpensive as far as woodworking tools go (about $15), and the chromed models won't rust. You will likely find this to be one of the most used tools in the shop.

And one last note - it's useless to have measuring tools without marking tools. To start off, you'll need a marking knife. There are many out there, and you can re-sharpen a pen knife to be a single-bevel blade that will get you by for a while. If you'd rather do it all at once, I recommend the Blue Spruce Toolworks small marking knife. It's a bit pricey, but it's one of the only ones on the market with a sufficiently thin blade - most others are way too thick. Used carefully, this knife will be the last one you will ever need to buy.

[John Callahan]

I believe the LV folding rule is a Starrett- it should be a good one. If you're going to be doing built-ins etc I think you'd find it useful. The best sliding bevels I've used are made by Shinwa. All metal, made in Japan, they lock solid and don't move. The rear locking screw is out of the way- you can use either side without the interference that you get on some sliding bevels that use wing nuts. http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=146020&FamilyID=5301 They have different sizes (6",8",10",12" iirc ) but I'm not sure if Woodcraft carries them all. +1 for the Starrett combo square ..........once you use one for awhile you won't have any qualms about the cost. Just for grins I'd check off your tapes and rules against each other; they'll probably be fine but I can recall a couple of instances where a damaged tape and a $4.00 Chinese tape caused a lot of head scratchin', cussin', lost time, and headaches. :eek:

[Rod Goodin]

The two that I use the most are; Starrett 12" combo and the 36" rule from woodpeckers. Like all have said I used a cheap combo for a lot of years and upgraded to the Starrett all I could thank of after using it is why did I wait this long.
Rod

[Bob Johnson2]

In order of use
arious 6" starrett rules, and a handful of 6" Brown and Sharp pocket clip rules, seems I leave them everywhere while I work.
Yard stick, need a new one, this ones pretty beat up.
12' tape measure
6" Starrett combo square
Cheap General plastic dial caliper
several accurate 12" rules
Fairly heap set of engineering squares, 5 in all, I leave these all over too.
Cheap plastic triangles
Carpenter square
25' tape for lumber yard

Rarely use but gotta have
Lee Valley morticeing guage
striking knife
good compass
protractor

Never use
centering rule
folding rulers

[Jeff Skory]

One of my most used rulers is a Lee Valley's Pocket Rule.

Pocket Rule (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32566&cat=1,43513)

What I love about it:

Very, very easy to read with the aluminum color background.
The 1/2" ruler on each of the ends. One in each direction. I use these all the time to measure height of tablesaw blade or router bit, or anything small.
The price. Can't beat it for my most used tool.

[Greg L. Brown]

To start off, you'll need a marking knife. There are many out there, and you can re-sharpen a pen knife to be a single-bevel blade that will get you by for a while. If you'd rather do it all at once, I recommend the Blue Spruce Toolworks small marking knife. It's a bit pricey, but it's one of the only ones on the market with a sufficiently thin blade - most others are way too thick. Used carefully, this knife will be the last one you will ever need to buy.

David,
Can I just use an X-Acto knife as a marking knife? If not, is there a lower priced alternative than the Blue Spruce tool (I think it was $95!). Seems like this would be a $10 item (at most).

All,
Thanks for the helpful replies

-Greg

[Brian Kent]

Starrett Combination Square - $58

http://craftsmanstudio.com/pdf/starrett-promo2009-web.pdf

Folding ruler - I use it more than my tape measures, but purely personal.

Plastic triangles from Office Depot

An angle measurement tool with a dial easy to read.

[Doug Shepard]

...
Can I just use an X-Acto knife as a marking knife? If not, is there a lower priced alternative than the Blue Spruce tool (I think it was $95!). Seems like this would be a $10 item (at most).
...


Here ya go. Great marking knives and from a fellow Creeker too.
http://www.czeckedge.com/pilot.html

[Dave Falkenstein]

One of the measuring tools I use frequently is a digital caliper that reads in fractions or thousandths.

[David Keller NC]

"David,
Can I just use an X-Acto knife as a marking knife? If not, is there a lower priced alternative than the Blue Spruce tool (I think it was $95!). Seems like this would be a $10 item (at most)."

There are some that use xacto knives, but these types of knives have a big disadvantage - they're double-beveled. What you want is a marking knife that has a bevel only on one side. That allows you to use the flat face against a ruler or square, and also means you don't have to tilt the knife exactly right to ensure that you're marking the exact line of another piece of wood onto your workpiece (this comes up in dovetailing - the line has to be precise, or the dovetails won't fit).

So, my comment about a pen knife needs a bit of explanation - what you want is a small, easily wieldable pen knife (a swiss army comes to mind, but not the huge combo things that have every conceivable tool in them). You will then need to grind or hone the bevel back so that the bevel on the opposite side is erased.

One reason you might wish to get a knife that has the shape of the Blue Spruce knives is that they can be used in either direction - you're going to quickly figure out that the pen knife will put you in an awkward posture occasionally because it's "unidirectional" - a pair of pocket knives with the bevels sharpened on opposite sides is ideal.

By the way - I'm not sure where you saw the price you mentioned, but the B.S. Toolworks knives are about half as much - a pair of them (large and small) is about $95 (and to start with, you don't need both - just get the smaller one):

http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/blue_spruce_toolworks.htm

By the way - there's a number of companies making and selling knives with a similar shape. However, many of these are just too thick - you want a thin blade in a marking knife; otherwise, you may have a good deal of trouble getting your knife into the kerf when marking out dovetails.

One other (cheaper) option is get the Hock knife, and make a handle yourself:

http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/marking.htm

[Prashun Patel]

I submit to you that as a 'beginner' you don't need to break the bank on the tools you mention. I'd get a basic set of everything from BORG or ACE and replace what you need when (and IF) you determine it's necessary. I've been 'practicing' for 8 years now, and I haven't outgrown the following from Ace:

12" engineers square
6" + 12" plastic triangle speed squares
24" framing square
4" drywall ruler
4 tape measures ('cuz they always get lost).

I'd also invest in a digital angle/height gauges from Wixey. I've found it more challenging to accurately set up tools than it is to accurately measure stock.

Also, it's worth it to make yourself some alignment jigs and blocks, that can be used to quickly check depth and angle measurements on yr tsaw and router.

[Paul Demetropoulos]

The combination square is the single most versatile measuring tool in the shop.
The advantage of having a highly accurate one, like a Starrett, is that it becomes a reference for all your other squares. But if you’re not ready to spring for one, there are plenty of inexpensive ways to get accurate setups.

As mentioned, plastic drafting triangles are very accurate and great for setups. Drill bits can make excellent measuring devices as they’re made to exacting tolerances.

Set up and 1-2-3 blocks are inexpensive and very very accurate. Lee Valley sells a set of bars and 1 block for $42.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=45089&cat=1,240,41064 (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=45089&cat=1,240,41064)

110620

A pair of Starrett 1-2-3 blocks sells for $39. at Reid Supply.
Claimed square and parallel to 1/1000”, these blocks have a wide range of uses, great for jig building. At $18 a piece that’s precision on the cheap.

http://www.reidsupply.com/Detail.aspx?ID=RE-123&BI (http://www.reidsupply.com/Detail.aspx?ID=RE-123&BI)=

And cheap at the Borg doesn’t necessarily mean inaccurate. I have a 16” Stanley combination square that was cheap and is dead on. The Empire carpenter’s squares at the Home Depot are cheap and pretty good, just check them for square (hold it against a straight edge/draw a line/flip it and draw another very close line/lines parallel=square) you’re good to go. Check a combo square the same way, as someone else said, square is square.

[Neal Clayton]

i only use...

a 2 foot framing square
a 6 inch square
a drywall style T Square (cutting glass and marking ply mostly)
a combo square
an angle ruler
and a digital micrometer

i'm sure there are easier ways to accomplish some things with more specialized measuring tools, but i haven't found anything that can't be done with one or two of the above.

[Matt Benton]

I just ordered this dovetail layout tool today. I'll let you know what I think of it when it comes....

http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/product_info.php/cPath/35_165/products_id/526

[Chris Padilla]

:D http://www.bridgecitytools.com/ :D

Yes, the prices are "over the top" but so are the products.

At the recent Lie-Nielsen handtool event in Oakland, CA, I ordered the CT-15 Multi-Square (http://www.bridgecitytools.com/Products/What's+New/CT-15+Multi-Square). I only needed to handle the sample at their booth for 30 s and just knew I had to have one. Did I NEED one...no...but I wanted it!!

[jeff begin]

Also... I recommend that you add a nice, 0.5mm mechanical pencil to your first round of purchases. By "nice", I mean one that is made for engineers and draftsmen and isn't likely to be sold at OfficeMax.

I think I spent $13 at Amazon for a Pentel Sharp Kerry and a couple more bucks for extra erasers and leads. It is *so* much better than the normal pencils I was using. Always having a line that is the same thickness and never having to stop to sharpen is well worth the price.

[Vincent Nocito]

Purchase the 12" Starrett combo square, a set of good metal rulers (6, 12, 24, 36"), marking/cutting gauges and a marking knife. Veritas (Lee Valley) makes some nice layout tools (saddle squares, dovetail guides, etc). Look into either a dial or digital caliper. Avoid buying layout tools from the BORG or other big box store.

[John Sanford]

Folding Ruler:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32560&cat=1,43513 Some folks seem to think they are useless toys, others find them invaluable. I'm more in the second camp. A folding rule is far and away the easiest way for ME to take inside measurements. I hate using a tape measure for inside measurements....


6" Engineer's Square:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32601&cat=1,42936 There's a lot of good engineer's squares out there. Of the "Asian" imports, look for one's from India.


Mortise Gauge:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32621&cat=1,42936 Wheel marking gauge for me... I have a traditional one, don't use it much.


Angle Bevel:
http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=404706&FamilyID=8510 Shinwa or Veritas. Anything sticking out the side of the bevel is a PITA.


I'm have a decent $20 combination square I got from Home Depot a year ago. I know it's not a Starrett, but I'm not willing to drop $80 on a combination square, yet(!). I also have a few decent tape measures, an Awl, and rulers, so I don't need any of those items.

Thanks,
Greg You may not think you need any rulers, but I'd really suggest getting an Incra rule, either a 6" or 12" T-rule. And then there's one other really, really, REALLY useful marking/measuring tool.

Bridge City (http://www.bridgecitytools.com/Products/Saddle+Squares/SS-2+Saddle+Square) or Lee Valley/Veritas (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=44836&cat=1,42936,50298&ap=1). I have the latter, want the former. Not only because it looks really, really beautiful, but also because it's not stuck at 90. I use this measuring (actually, more of a marking tool) more than any other measuring tool in my shop except for a pencil and tape measure.

[Bob Slater]

The Bosch digital angle finder has been a trusted and useful tool..

[Myk Rian]

1. Incra rulers, without a doubt. They are the easiest to make an accurate mark.
2. Wixey angle gauge.
3. Plastic drafting triangle. Get them at Joann's fabrics, etc.

[Tom Walz]

I have a folding ruler because they are cool and traditional and my grandpa had one. Never use it though.

I would second Mr. Patel on lots of tape measures but I would go for six. If you have enough you can always find one. Besides you can get some of them free with other tools or as promo items. Also, if you have one of something it gets lost. If you have two of them you can always find both.

Contact me and I will send you some of our carpenter pencils free.

Tom

[Joe Jensen]

I mainly use the following;
- 6" or so Bridge City square, small so it's handy
- 9" Bridge city adjustable square
- A well tuned (to be really square) steel framing square to check larger things
- I tape that I've compared to a Starret ruler for accuracy (I use the tape only for rough measurements) I actually have 6-10 of these, never sure exactly how many as I have them everywhere in the shop
- 24" bench rule from Bridge City
- Starret dial caliper for precision thickness measurements (not really for wood, but more for metal work stuff and repairing/refurbishing machines)
- Woodcraft dial indicator that reads out in imperial fractions. (this was a Christmas gift in 2007 and I use it a ton

I have a couple of folding rulers that my dad gave me and I would them to be pretty inaccurate. I think they are more for carpentry than for cabinetmaking.

Here's what I'd buy
1) Good 6-8" square ($30-80)
2) Good framing square and adjust to tune for perfect square ($20)
3) 24" bench ruler ($30)
4) Decent tape measure ($10)
5) I love the dial indicator from Woodcraft ($30)

I have a lot of the Bridge City Tools and I love them. They are beautiful and functional. Mine are used and tarnished, not show pieces. But, they are dead accurate.

[Myk Rian]

- I tape that I've compared to a Starret ruler for accuracy (I use the tape only for rough measurements) I actually have 6-10 of these, never sure exactly how many as I have them everywhere in the shop
I must relate a comical experience with a Starrett tape measure.
Before retiring, I repaired and certified precision tools. We needed a certified tape measure to check other tapes with. I ordered a 100' Starrett tape, certified.
When I went to use it, I noticed that the measurements I got were off, by 3 3/8". Checking the "certified" tape, it started at 3 3/8", yet it was certified. I sent it back and got a new one.