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View Full Version : MM 16 report (mini-gloat)



Cecil Arnold
07-08-2004, 12:36 AM
The MM 16 is finally set up and working after a long delay:) . It took this long because of my own stupidness:o , which is part of this report. It arrived two days after ordered which was a Wednesday. It took only about an hour and a half to get it cleaned, attach the mobility kit and get it moved into the shop. At that point things begin to go wrong:( . Reading the instructions, I attached the plug and hooked it up to the power cord I use for the TS. Hit the power switch and nothing. Call to MM in Austin and am told to check the brake switch and possibly re-set it. Tried that with no luck. Over-rode the door switches, no luck. Starting to get flusterated:confused: , no help there. Am told that the current might be the problem. Called around to friends looking for a volt/ohm, no luck. Go to Sears, buy volt/ohm have 247 volts coming out the end of the extension cord. Check contineuty (sp?) of door and brake switches, all are okay. Called Austin, MM will overnight new power switch, no problem. New switch arrives, gets installed, same problem--nothing. Discuss trouble shooting so far, Rob (MM Tech) seems to be as troubled as I am. At this point I have memorized the wiring diagram and we can discuss it almost as peers. Rob agrees to send another power switch and says he will be coming to the Houston area this week to work on another saw. By this time it is Friday and we figure out a workaround to get the saw working by cutting out the safety interlock switches (something we are both a little uncomfortable with, I think from a liability aspect for him and 30 years in the safety business for me). Hack a little wood (its now the weekend) and make the mistake of touching the MM and the TC at the same time. Got a real nice attention getting tingle. The TC is bonded to ground through the DC, otherwise I think it could have been some time before discovering this problem. Rob arrives today (Wednesday) and before he starts through the saw I show him the fault. He proceeds to troubleshoot it pretty much as I had done with the same results. The crux of the problem is the coil that kicks out when the doors are opened and kills the power. We couldn't get that sucker to function. Finally, Rob decides that he may have to find a less sensitive coil as a replacement. He pulls it out so I can have use of the saw, then we start looking for the cause of the electrical fault. Lots of testing before he pulls the plug that I put on off to discover that rather than putting the green and yellow striped wire on the ground, I had put green to green (power to ground). It now works like a bandit.:D :D :D

First item of business was to set the drift angle on the fence, which, with the 1/2" blade provided, was more severe than I anticipated. After setting I was able to resaw some white pine thinner that 1/64" (actually .011"). Using the finished side next to the fence. The next two were 1/32" and 3/64". I had previously resawed some 9" birds-eye Maple and 10-11" Mahogany on my Jet, and while I realize there is a difference between the woods, the feed rate on the MM is awesome. I do not like the Euroguides. I have already had them come lose while sawing, even though they were hand tightened about as well as I can get them. I'm afraid I may have to use a tool to keep them tight.:eek: Anyone thinking of buying a MM16 might want to consider another mobility system. I replaced the MM system with a Jet moble base for about $65 as opposed to the MM of $150. I would not recommend the Jet, but think the Shop Fox is more suited to the weight of the MM, even both state that they are good for up to 600 lbs. IMHO the Jet seems a bit flimsy/shaky. Unfortunately I will be helping a friend do some cabinets for the next week or so and will not be able to get back to my project that will require using the MM.

I do want to say that the folks at MM did everything one could expect to get me up and going. :cool: Rob called several times to see if there was any progress and if the switches he sent had arrived, and Dain (the salesman) also checked in to see if everything was being done that could be done. I can understand someone losing their sense of humor over having a piece of equipment as pricey as a MM sitting uselessly in their shop, but getting mad and yelling does no good, especally when people are doing every reasonable thing they can do to make it right. I would have to give the MM people an A+ for customer service.

Tyler Howell
07-08-2004, 7:00 AM
You know the rules, Pix:p

Congrats C. I know the excitement of a quality knew tool.;)

Rich Konopka
07-08-2004, 8:57 AM
Glad to hear that you got your MM16 up and running. It sounds like MM was stellar in their assistance and was one the reasons I chose the MM16. I am waiting for an electrician to come and install a new sub panel and 240 so I can test my MM16. I have to wait until July 23.:(

Byron Trantham
07-08-2004, 9:12 AM
Congrats Cecil! :D

Jim Becker
07-08-2004, 9:39 AM
Congratulations on the new MM16! I'm sure you'll enjoy it as much as I enjoy mine. Great tool...great company.

Bruce Page
07-08-2004, 11:00 AM
Cecil,

Congratulations on your new MM16! I have had mine for a few weeks and can only say WOW! I did not have any problems getting it going other than having to modify the plastic feed through on the cabinet to accept the #10 AWG wire that I used. The Euro guides do take some getting use to but I haven't had any problems with them coming loose.

I agree with your apprisal of the mobility system - I find it clumsy at best. I'm in the process of getting the MM16 into a Delta mobile base and will post some info & pic's later today.

Chris Padilla
07-08-2004, 11:45 AM
Aw, you guys poo-pooing the MM mobility kit are obviously not the adventurous type!! :D Isn't it kind of fun to steer that sucker with the toe bar? :D :D

I don't mind the MM mobility kit too much but it is annoying that the lower door bangs into the rear wheels thus not allowing you to fully open the door. It makes changing wide blade more of a PITA.

I have a Shop Fox mobile base on my TS but the lock-downs on it are a POS...I think mine came stripped from the get-go. Still, I usually don't lock it down and it is rare when my TS starts moving on me due to cutting something (usually ripping a sheet of ply can start it moving).

I may chat with Dain and send the kit back to him and opt for a cheaper, better Shop Fox mobility kit. We'll see....

Steven Wilson
07-08-2004, 12:09 PM
I do not like the Euroguides. I have already had them come lose while sawing, even though they were hand tightened about as well as I can get them. I'm afraid I may have to use a tool to keep them tight.:eek: Anyone thinking of buying a MM16 might want to consider another mobility system. I replaced the MM system with a Jet moble base for about $65 as opposed to the MM of $150. I would not recommend the Jet, but think the Shop Fox is more suited to the weight of the MM, even both state that they are good for up to 600 lbs. IMHO the Jet seems a bit flimsy/shaky.

Check the threaded mounting stud and see if there is some casting slag that needs filing. I had a similar problem with the guides on my MM20 but a file and a quick cleanup had the adjusting ring and locking ring seating properly on the support bracket. As for the moble base, don't be dismissive of the Minimax setup yet. The other bases you've mentioned have a couple of problems for heavier saws like the MM16, namely flex and support. You really want a heavy saw, especially a top heavy saw, to be properly supported. The support bolts on the MM16 allow for this and the mobility kit works with it. If you put a three point system like the HTC or the Shop Fox (although it's better) then you will probably find that the saw moves around a bit while in use; a PIA for a lightweight 14" saw, dangerous for something that weighs twice as much. The only other mobility kit that IMHO would work correctly is the Vega; it's design is similar to the Minimax kit. As for the Shop Fox, it can handle more weight than the jet but has it's own stability/flex issues. As for the bar, it does take some getting use to but I find it to be very easy to accurately place the saw where I want it, actually easier than using an HTC base (I had one on a Jet 14"). The lever style of mobility kit is what you will find on all of the heavier weight woodworking machines. Besides the MM20, my Minimax CU350 and Oneway 2436 use similar methods for mobility; just like commercial machinery moving kits.

Bruce Page
07-08-2004, 12:36 PM
I don't mind the MM mobility kit too much but it is annoying that the lower door bangs into the rear wheels thus not allowing you to fully open the door. It makes changing wide blade more of a PITA. Chris, when the saw is resting on it's base, the rear wheels of the mobility kit should be completely off of the ground. Then you simply pull the Jesus clip and take the wheel off. The lower door will now open fully, allowing for easy (sic) blade changes.

Chris Padilla
07-08-2004, 1:05 PM
Doh! I think I need to reinstall the wheels...I put the base up on some 1/2" plywood to make installing the wheels easier so my wheels are not up in the air when the saw is at rest!

Oh, and good idea about pulling the clip...didn't even enter my mind! Sigh....

Mike Wilkins
07-08-2004, 1:25 PM
Congrats on the new iron.
As for your displeasure with the guide system; Laguna Tools has the ceramic
guide system which opens up another world of blade guiding. They also sell
them for other brands of bandsaws for a retrofit. Check their web site and
call for additional info.

I tried using the Shop Fox mobile base on my Laguna LT18, but could not
open the door more than 5 inches. Not good if I ever wanted to change the
blade. I could add a piece of plywood to raise it, but I did'nt like the idea of
raising an already top-heavy machine.
So since I have finally gotten a welder (135 amp MIG) I plan to make my
own from angle iron, using the Johnson bar like the Vega, Laguna and MiniMax
systems.
Good luck and watch those fingers.

Cecil Arnold
07-08-2004, 8:44 PM
Doh! I think I need to reinstall the wheels...I put the base up on some 1/2" plywood to make installing the wheels easier so my wheels are not up in the air when the saw is at rest!

Oh, and good idea about pulling the clip...didn't even enter my mind! Sigh....
Chris,

Sometime the simple fix is the most difficult to think of. Maybe you are spending too much time around computers.;)

Jim Becker
07-08-2004, 9:11 PM
Regarding the guides, the standard Euro-style guides are great for 1/2" or wider blades. If you plan on using narrower blades, Mini Max is now shipping Cool Blocks for the MM16. The cost is $75 plus shipping which includes the assemblies necessary to hold them in place, etc. With Cool Blocks, you can literally bury the narrow blade in the guides without damaging the teeth on the blade.

Cecil Arnold
07-08-2004, 9:29 PM
Thanks Jim, I was made aware of that by the Tech. I'm using the 1/2" balde they shipped with the unit and the drift angle seems to be pretty big. Is that your expereince?

Bob Marino
07-08-2004, 10:42 PM
Congrats on the saw...BUT we want pictures!!! ;)

Bob

Jim Becker
07-09-2004, 9:47 AM
Thanks Jim, I was made aware of that by the Tech. I'm using the 1/2" balde they shipped with the unit and the drift angle seems to be pretty big. Is that your expereince?
If you are getting a lot of drift, it's generally the blade that is the culprit, but improper tensioning can also affect that. The tension guage from Iturra is a good investment as the "meter" on any of these saws is not even close to accurate. I get pretty much "zero" drift with both my 1/2" Timberwolf AS blades and the 1" Lennox carbide blade. I haven't mounted my narrower Timberwolf PC blades yet...I was waiting (patiently) for the Cool Blocks to finally ship.