frame and panel door construction questions

[Brad Ridgway]

I was looking through some past posts and it seems i'm not the only one wanting to avoid edge-joining stock together, but although some warned against it due to potential non-flatness of the board, i think i'd rather take that then board movement that pulls the finish appart at edge joints...

So today I went to examine the construction of my in-laws' cabinets which they paid a custom cabinet guy to do recently, trying to decide how i want to proceed with certain details on mine...


Question one is on his construction

Sorry for no pics, but from what i can tell, he used maple stock for the rails/stiles and a maple veneer panel for the panel (ply / VC, not sure) so sort of a shaker look, but fancier. On the back side, the panel is rounded 3/8" or so from its 1/2 thickness down to the thickness that is inserted into the frame (picture cutting off the bottom left half of the curve on a "J") . The panel "looks" like edge jointed boards, but there is no raise / delta in any of them that i can feel (and i can feel/see movement everywhere else). If i'm correct. he rabbeted (but with a rounded bit - at least at the outer radius) the backs of those panels to fit into the frames. And somehow used something to cover the exposed rounded edge to make it look like wood. I only found one door with a very small corner where it look like this banding/film was peeling and it was really thin.

For ease, i think i like this method especially in florida where the humidity during assembly and post install would certain create some wood movement. Does this technique sound common / correct? I've never seen edge banding that was that thin and could curve in such a small radius before. I'm not opposed to doing a square rabit either and staining the exposed plies (or core as it may be) super dark to try to conceal them (which is actually sortof hos his look...


Question two is on the movement and impacts on finishing...
Though the cabinets are awesome, right now, there's about 1/16 - 3/32 on some doors where the frame has expanded and shows the lighter/unfinished sections of the panel that were originally in the grooves. I am thinking that to avoid this, i would rather rabit the inside/backs of my frames, assemble them, finish the frames and panels seperately and then assemble the panel to the frame with space balls, etc... I guess i could go about this similar to how you would anchor glass in a panel but is that acceptable? Any reasons not to do this or best techniques if i do?


thx in advance
-brad

[David DeCristoforo]

What you have is a 1/2" thick solid wood panel with a "back panel" cut. This is a very common way to make flat panel ("shaker look") doors. The back panel cut can be done with anything you have available... shaper, router table, even on a table saw by making a simple rabbet on the edges.

The best way to handle the finish issue is to seal the panels before assembling the doors. That will eliminate the raw wood showing if the panels shrink a bit. Your proposed method may be OK for glass panel doors but it will prove to be a huge PITA and completely unnecessary for solid wood doors.

[Joe Chritz]

I use a dedicated back cutter for panels. On a shaker I would likely just use a cove raised panel cutter and flip the panel backwards. Normally I use panels considerably less thick than 3/4 for flat panels. In fact my own kitchen is built exactly like that. If you want the back all in one plane then you would build it 1/4" + the thickness you set from the panel to the inside face of the stiles, usually 1/8" or so.

There isn't any reason to rabbit and install a wooden panel but it is almost a requirement for a glass panel door. You could build normally with 1/4 glass but if it every breaks you couldn't repair it without killing the door.

Joe

[Steve Jenkins]

If the stock for your panel glueup is properly prepared, square,flat, straight, it won't seperate at the glue lines or mar the finish.The line you see on the panel is from the panel shrinking not the door expanding. You can also use a 1/4" flat panel made from veneer core or mdf core and it will pretty much eliminate any shrinkage. If you do use solid stock be careful when gluing your rails and stiles that you don't get any glue down in the corners and accidently glue in the panel. In a solid panel this will cause it to split when it tries to shrink.

[Stan Urbas]

Just a point on the wood movement due to humidity. The problem you are referencing is due to a change in humidity, not the humidity itself. Every time I've been in Florida the humidity has always been high - no change there. The worst problem is in the northern parts of the east and midwest. In the summers it gets very hot and the relative humidity can easily get into the 80s and 90s. But in the winter it gets very cold outside, so if the humidity is around 40% outside, when the air is heated in the house the relative humidity can drop to only 5%. This change from season to season causes the wood to swell and shrink, and if you don't have a way for your panels to move, cracking can result.