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View Full Version : Tile saws, what you can expect...



Dan Hintz
02-15-2009, 1:57 PM
Even though I have not had much luck in creating a tile etching that looked even halfway decent to this point, my tool-itis got the better of me while driving home from our Valentine's Day dinner. My SO has been guilt-tripping me... I needed to create some etched granite tiles because she needed gifts. This necessitated smaller tiles, both for (cheaper) practice and because not everyone wants a huge 12x12 tile on their coffee table. So I added a wet tile saw to the tool collection, and here are my thoughts on the purchase and what to look for when you go to purchase your own... feel free to add your own.

After a 10-15 minute discussion with a (surprisingly knowledgable) guy at Lowe's, I selected the QEP Professional Series Model #60083. It has a 7" blade, 1 HP motor, aiming laser, adjustable angle rip guide, and an adjustable angle aluminum table.

Price: This particular unit was $200, and I have to say I expected the build quality to be better for the price. I specifically chose to stay away from the cheap <$100 models for this reason... I didn't expect the solid machines $5k buys, but I suppose I was expecting the quality often seen with units approaching $1k. My bad.

Laser: I use it extensively on my wood saws for lining things up and trimming, so my expectations were this unit would be similar. I was annoyed to see it wasn't built into the table... it was built into the top of the finger guard :( It was powered by two button cells (not the 120V line supply), which means I'll have to replace them from time to time, and the plastic enclosure reminds of something I'd find on a child's toy from a dollar store. That said, I was quite surprised to find the laser lined up with the blade perfectly.

Splash Guard: Even though it's made of a clear plastic, you still cannot see the actual cut under it due to the water stream, so it may as well be opaque. It does an admirable job at keeping water spray to a minimum, but you have to adjust it perfectly to the height of the material if you want to cut down on water spray without binding on the tile. There is still a fine mist that comes out of the front and back, but I'm thinking some flexible rubber hanging down 1/8" would kill that completely.

The bracket did not line up with the cut in the tile, forcing me to flip the tile around. Unless you're perfect, this causes nubs of uneven tile where the two cuts meet up. I have since fixed that issue by Dremeling the table down where the bracket attaches, putting the bracket back in line with the blade.

Table: The table itself is aluminum, but it's about as light (cheap) a piece as you can imagine (I miss the days of billet aluminum tables) while still being able to do the job at hand. No frills here, but as long as it works, I suppose I can't really complain. One half of the table can be angled by way of built-in plastic legs for mitered edges. This is where a more solid table would be more confidence-inspiring.

"Wet" Saw: The "wet" portion of the saw amounts to a small tub of water the blade runs through (there is no active pumping of water). You fill it with about 1/2 gallon of water, and the overflow drain is literally a short tube with a hole at the top. You definitely want to put this someplace where water spillage won't affect anything, such as outside or on a concrete slab in the basement.

Water Collection: As the water is pulled up by the blade (it's amazing how much water a spinning flat blade pulls up on it's side!), it rolls off of the tile and into channels in the table. These drain into a channel surrounding the entire table and back into the tub... my complaint here is the outside channel edge isn't high enough, and if the saw isn't perfectly level, the amount of water that ends up in that outer channel can start to leak over the edge and onto the floor instead of ending up back in the tub.

Rip Guide: Made of aluminum that feels like metal-colored plastic, it does an okay job. It actually clamps to the edges of the table via a spring-loaded rod. The far end will shift about 1/16" after it has been clamped and sideways pressure is applied by the tile, but this can be taken into account when initially lining it up before clamping.

Adjustable Angle Guide: Made of cheap plastic and only a few inches in length, the guide rides along the rip guide and allows for angled cutting. It probably works well with smaller, lighter tiles, but with heavy 12x12 granite and marble tiles it leaves a lot to be desired. I didn't check the angle, but my quick view of it set to zero appeared to still have a few degrees of angle to it (something to consider with bigger tiles). For the large and heavy tiles, I just use the rip guard directly.

Power: 1 HP is not as much as you think when it comes to cutting tiles, so stay away from those 1/2 HP cheapies. With nothing more than a tile resting against it, my motor won't even budge if turned on from a standstill. Once running, it does a decent job at cutting with a constant push speed (I estimate I've been running at about 0.75"/second and haven't tried to go faster).

GFCI Circuit: There isn't one. There's a resettable circuit breaker (I think), but mixing water and electricity scares the you know what out of me. Plug this into a GFCI circuit whenever possible to avoid electrocution.

Material Size: With the rip guide in place, the largest piece that can be cut off is roughly 9" (though the piece being cut can be as large as you can handle). The cut off piece could be larger than 9" if you set up some form of external guide (or just winged it by eye), but this table is more than adequate for cutting down 12x12 tiles into 6x6 squares.



Overall, I'm happy with the purchase in the sense that it does what I need without costing me an arm and a leg. If I believed my tile work would be significant I would have purchased a beefier machine with a more solid table and built-in features, but I didn't want to go too cheap and have a complete piece of junk. Knowing what I know now, I'd probably make the same decision, but it hasn't been without its cons. As always, YMMV...

Steve Clarkson
02-15-2009, 2:20 PM
I know the borgs will cut lumber for you.....does anyone know if they will cut tile?

Doug Griffith
02-15-2009, 2:24 PM
Another option is a ring saw. I've got an older model that is bare bones but it cuts curves and organic shapes out of tile quite easilly. It has a rip guide for straight cuts that works OK. Something to look into.

James Stokes
02-15-2009, 2:51 PM
I am an old tilesetter, did it for over 20 years. I have been playing with the lasers for about 9 years now. I have a couple wet saws that I paid about $1500 for, they cut tile and granite real good if you want straight cuts. If you want to cut ovals or something like that you need a ring saw. You can buy them on line for about $300. If you are buying something for your laser, then buy a ring saw, you will be able to do a lot more.

Dan Hintz
02-15-2009, 3:35 PM
Oh, sure... now you guys post about ring saws! :rolleyes:

Never heard of them, but looks like a very interesting design. Are they designed to work without water on all materials, or do they also offer a wet version? I don't want to get into non-square cuts for the time being, but it's nice to know my options if/when that time comes.

Doug Griffith
02-15-2009, 4:08 PM
My unit has a reservoir for water at the bottom. The ring rotates through it. The cool thing about ring saws is you can use them freehand like a scroll saw. The blade does not rotate very fast and touching it while it's spinning isn't really an issue. They are used quite a bit by stained glass designers and cut most hard substrates a typical tile saw would be used for.

Dan Hintz
02-15-2009, 4:31 PM
Sheesh, now I want to dump my blade saw and pick up a ring version...

Doug Griffith
02-15-2009, 5:20 PM
They aren't as cheap as the unit you purchased and to be honest I don't know why. There isn't much to them.

Here is a company that makes them:
http://www.geminisaw.com/

Cheers,
Doug

Dan Hintz
02-15-2009, 6:12 PM
They aren't as cheap as the unit you purchased and to be honest I don't know why. There isn't much to them.

Here is a company that makes them:
http://www.geminisaw.com/

I briefly saw mention of a design patent... if that's the case, Gemini may be the only company who can manufacture them, which would explain the price.

Doug Griffith
02-15-2009, 6:20 PM
Could be. The one I have is made by MKDiamond but is not sold by them anymore and now appears to be a Gemini product. A company I work with used to vacuum form the bodies for MK and I haven't seen the job run quite a while.

Dan Hintz
02-15-2009, 6:59 PM
Oh, I did forget to mention... coinciding with my saw purchase, I think I'm finally getting a handle on pre-processing images for granite. No more 12x12 tiles with multiple images scattered across it for tests. I cut out four 6x6, one ended up with an overexposed image, but the second had a fairly nice looking pic. Some images just need to be masked and modified in different amounts (I was trying to be lazy and adjust the entire picture as one entity). Now I just need to tweak my vignetting skills in Paint.NET.

Doug Griffith
02-15-2009, 8:37 PM
You really are into the open source/freeware graphics programs aren't you!

Dan Hintz
02-15-2009, 8:58 PM
You really are into the open source/freeware graphics programs aren't you!
Can you blame me? They cost me nothing more than some bandwidth a few times a year to get the latest version, bug tracking/fixing is done by people motivated by a love of programming and not "make enough money to keep the bloated corporation afloat", and the programs are often just as (if not more) powerful than costly programs.

You want auto-vignetting tools? Paint.NET has a plug-in for it. Want an adjustable halftone tool? Paint.NET has a plug-in for it. Want a custom filter? Someone writing plug-ins for Paint.NET would probably be willing to write it for you. It's all free and often updated every few weeks/months with new features and bug fixes. Tell me Adobe, Corel, or any other company out there will do the same.

Yes, sometimes it means a bit more work on my part (such as requiring a few extra programs on hand for file format conversion), but the pros far outweigh the cons, IMHO. Even the file format conversion issue may be a non-issue soon enough as my favorite vector program (InkScape) allows for seamless acceptance of CDR files... right now you have to download a few extra plug-ins and install them in an odd way.

Doug Griffith
02-15-2009, 9:59 PM
I'm a "sucker" for the expensive stuff. It could be because I spent many years learning on someone elses dime and can't just start over again on my own dime. I know the bloatware all too well. Plus, I honestly think you can't beat Adobe products. They've been around a long time and have evolved their products well.

I don't see Unix or Gimp in your toolbox. That's even a little more hardcore.

James Stokes
02-15-2009, 10:08 PM
There are a couple others that make the saws. I will try to post an address tomorrow for a cheap place to buy the ring saws. I have it on a differant computer than I am using right now.

CW McClellan
02-15-2009, 10:26 PM
Check out Yglass.com got all the ring and diamond saws ya want cheap

James Stokes
02-16-2009, 8:28 AM
Here is the place I was thinking of.




http://www.shopsmartxpress.com/AmeriGls/AmrDefault.htm?M2d.htm

George Brown
02-16-2009, 12:55 PM
Another option is a ring saw. I've got an older model that is bare bones but it cuts curves and organic shapes out of tile quite easilly. It has a rip guide for straight cuts that works OK. Something to look into.
I was just about to buy a tile cutting saw, both for cutting tile for laser work, and for redoing the bathroom. Will the ring saw cut as strainght a line as I need?

Also, which model would you suggest, I want a good one that I can use for many years.

Thanks
George

Doug Griffith
02-16-2009, 1:16 PM
I can't give opinions about any ring saws but the one I own - and it does better on curves than straight lines. Probably because the "rip guide" is flimsy plastic. If I were to purchase another ring saw, I would look heavily into the Gemini Revolution. It isn't cheap though.

http://geminisaw.com/revolutionxt.html

Cheers,
Doug

George Brown
02-16-2009, 1:20 PM
I can't give opinions about any ring saws but the one I own - and it does better on curves than straight lines. Probably because the "rip guide" is flimsy plastic. If I were to purchase another ring saw, I would look heavily into the Gemini Revolution. It isn't cheap though.

http://geminisaw.com/revolutionxt.html

Cheers,
Doug
Thanks, you ain't kidding, they're expensive!

Dee Gallo
02-16-2009, 1:41 PM
Where did you guys see the price on these? I feel a nice birthday present coming on....

George Brown
02-16-2009, 1:43 PM
Where did you guys see the price on these? I feel a nice birthday present coming on....
Went to google. Price is round 1K. Would be an AWESOME birthday present.

Happy Birthday Dee!

George

Doug Griffith
02-16-2009, 2:00 PM
It looks like the Titan is about half that and might be a more realistic choice for occasional use.

Dave Johnson29
02-16-2009, 2:57 PM
Will the ring saw cut as straight a line as I need?


OK, first off, I have never used one. But it appears to only cut a straight edge when pushing the tile from front to back. You could make a fence to attach to the table and that would give you a straight and vertical cut-edge.

You could also attach the fence across the front but then the cut-edge would not be vertical.

To my thinking this would be a better deal. It has a metal frame and the blade is vertical from all angles.

http://www.yglass.com/812.html

George Brown
02-16-2009, 3:38 PM
Very neat Dave, have not seen one of those before.

nancy barry
02-16-2009, 3:43 PM
I have a Titan ring saw that I have owned for about 1 year. It is the smaller and less expensive version of the Revolution. I have used both saws and for my use and budget the smaller saw is fine for now. Gemini is a good company and they stand behind their products. I bought it for cutting 1/4 thick pcs of fused glass. It does a good job on straight cuts and will do more intricate cutting with practice and PATIENCE. It has a water reservoir for the blade and does not work "dry". It does spray but not as much as my 10" tile saw.

http://geminisaw.com/videosupport09.html
is a link to the video page for the Titan.

I have Inland Tile Saw for small pieces. The Inland is part of a set that allows use of 1 motor and housing and then by changing accessories , one can do many different things. It is a good system within its limitations. I use it for small work.
http://www.inlandcraft.com/singleproduct.asp?position=1&department_id=52&keyword=&category=&partnum=10670


I also have a 10" bridge type saw from HD originally purchased for cutting tile for bathroom and floors. It works well but is overkill for small projects.

With any blade saw, one needs a blade stiffener or the cut is not "straight". I find that the cut with the Titan is straighter than a similar cut on the Inland Tile saw. The Titan is slower however..

hope this helps.. nancyB

Ron Thompson
02-16-2009, 4:15 PM
That's a really nice little saw.

Just watch the video's of it in action

http://www.geminisaw.com/videosupport02.html

Ron Thompson

Dan Hintz
02-16-2009, 5:41 PM
Check out Yglass.com got all the ring and diamond saws ya want cheap
What's your definition of "cheap"?! That site wants $200 more for the Revolution XT than other sites... one of the first sites I clicked on from Google had it for $980ish, your site lists it at $1,190.

Paul Perkinson
02-21-2009, 8:52 AM
Our Gemini is about 3 years old now and still going strong. We also have a pretty beefy standard rail saw. The rail saw gets all straight cuts and works well with materials up to 3cm.
The Gemini can cut straight lines very well in marble, but granite is more of a challenge. We have to go slower to keep the piece feeding straight but, because of the design of the blade, that can cause a rough edge. Consequently, we only use the Gemini on straight cuts when there is a straight portion included on a more complex overall cut.
I agree that practice is required to get highly accurate cuts, but everyone we've had work with it has gotten it down pretty well within a very short time.
Gemini claims it will do almost any cut a waterjet will do and, technically, maybe that is correct but it is also a bit misleading. When we need absolute accuracy we tend to cut just a hair outside the line and then ease into the line with a Makita side grinder with diamond grind wheels.
We do a lot of granite and marble work and the Makita is one of our most used tools. With a little practice (a bit more than the Gemini I'm afraid) you can edge polish and even do simple profile treatments on stone. It's kinda like flame polishing acrylic as far as a wow factor. For a couple hundred dollars or so, you get a great amount of flexibility in what you can offer your customers.