Dovetail jigs

[Brian Hale]

Is there One Best jig to buy? Leigh? Craftsman? PC? Keller? Others? What should i be looking for in a jig? :confused:

Wanting to try to dovetail some drawers for an upcomming project; 2- 7 drawer CD/DVD storage cabinets.

TIA
Brian :)

[Chris Padilla]

How about a saw and a chisel? :D

[Jamie Buxton]

Brian --
The answer depends to some extent on what you want to do. Some jigs cut only through-dovetails (e.g Keller), and some cut only half-blind (e.g Porter Cable, and probably the Craftsman). Most cut only dovetails with fixed spacing, while a few cut ones with variable spacing (e.g Leigh).
I use the Keller, after trying quite a few others. It is simple to use, which is important for me. Simplicity means speed, and fewer mistakes. There's no test cuts to make, and I don't have to study a 100-page manual each time I pull it out.

Jamie

[Scott Coffelt]

If you want the premier and most flexible in my opinion, Leigh. However, I started with a smaller PC 4112 for doing drawers. I have sicne sold it and have a Jet for drawers and the Leigh for everything else.

[Jim Becker]

Jamie is correct in that it depends on what you want to do. I'm a believer in the Leigh and it works for me. I find it easy to set up and since I keep examples of "perfect" setups, especially for various half-blinds, I can practically go from scratch with minimal "testing", even if I haven't touched the machine for a month or three. I bought it for it's versatility and flexibility and it hasn't failed me in either respects. And the manual is comprehensive, both in content and in it's succinctness when you need to look up a specific setup for something out of the ordinary you want to do. (I wish other tool manufacturers would use it as an example of how things SHOULD be documented)

But Chris also makes a good point...it's a good idea to at least learn how to dovetail by hand even if you plan on being jig-based on a regular basis. It's an important woodworking skill and can sometimes be a better solution, especially for something unusual.

[Michael Ballent]

Yeah what Jim B said :D

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I use a PC. It does what I want it. I got it because it was the only one I could locate in town.

[Bob Reda]

I have both the PC and the LEIGH. I was using the PC for half blind and the Leigh for the through. The Leigh is truely alot easier to set up and use than the PC for through dovetails, and I leave the PC set for half blind.

[larry merlau]

Is there One Best jig to buy? Leigh? Craftsman? PC? Keller? Others? What should i be looking for in a jig? :confused:

Wanting to try to dovetail some drawers for an upcomming project; 2- 7 drawer CD/DVD storage cabinets.

TIA
Brian :)

i agree with mr becker on the manual i just got one of the leighs so am new with it but got it to work just fine, made around 6 test runs to get things settled in and it worked great on the 3 drawers i needed done. half blind style. and the versatillity is the best part of it in my opionion. but i would suggest if you get the leigh that you talk with jason tunstra on here he has got alot of dovetails under his belt and helped me alot.

[Mark Singer]

How about a saw and a chisel? :DIn the end , Chris has the best answer....all the guides make "machine made dovetails" and these are easy to distinguish from hand cut dovetails which are the signature joint of fine woodworking. It is worth the effort to learn and it doesn't take that much longer to do them by hand..."Big ones" and with mitered end pins can't be done with a jig...

[larry merlau]

In the end , Chris has the best answer....all the guides make "machine made dovetails" and these are easy to distinguish from hand cut dovetails which are the signature joint of fine woodworking. It is worth the effort to learn and it doesn't take that much longer to do them by hand...
just for my curiosty,, how long does it take you to make a half blind on two sides of a drawer frt 6 inches tall// 2 complete joints. i tried to make them by hand and it wasnt pretty but it was my first try. in oak

[Mark Singer]

just for my curiosty,, how long does it take you to make a half blind on two sides of a drawer frt 6 inches tall// 2 complete joints. i tried to make them by hand and it wasnt pretty but it was my first try. in oakI spent a whole Saturday and a coupl hours on Sunday on 7 drawers (28 joints )recently. That was including installing the bottoms and glue-up. They end up looking hand made though.

[Jim Becker]

Mark, you're absolutely correct and in a perfect world (sheesh!) we'd all be doing them by hand and with great skill. For some of us, however, the jigs are almost a necessity for at least some of the work (like drawers, etc) because we have very limited time to pursue our hobby while having the desire to actually complete projects within a reasonable period. That's the trade-off, at least for the less decorative joinery...time.

That said, I've started to invest in some of the hand tools that will allow me to both learn and do some of my dovetailing (at least through dovetails) by hand. I really value the challenge to my skill building that this activity will bring. I might even try those mitered ends like you show in your picture someday! Very attractive.

[Mark Singer]

Jim,
If I am making cabinets as opposed to "furniture" there is nothing wrong with a lock miter or even a Kreg Jig drawer construction. The Kreg is super fast and the screws can be hidden by the drawer fronts. I did my entire closet that way and it looks fine. I don't think every drawer needs to be hand dovetailed, but machine dovetailing is a compromise and attempts to be something it is not...never fooling the people that know...or yourself. It is a bit like a "push up bra" or wood grain laminate...nothing wrong with laminate until it starts to become something it is not. I am a bit of a purest...but that is the intent and direction of fine woodworking...the other stuff is at Levitz and Ikea, including the machine made dovetails.

[Martin Lutz]

I think cutting dovetails by hand really teaches an appreciation for the joint and for hand work in general. Cutting to the line, using your chisels effectively, (sharpening skills), are all part of the deal. Dont get me wrong I own a Leigh jig and love it but it does take some of the "romance" out of the joint. My first hand cut dovetails looked like they had been cut with a chainsaw. but with practice they have improved significantly, even half blinds are fun now. AS far as jigs are concerned the Leigh has proven to be very versatile and with minimal time with the manual you are quickly cutting nice looking joints. I have not used the Keller or the PC. Give some serious thought to learning hand cut, it is very rewarding.

Martin

[Jason Tuinstra]

Brian,

I have enjoyed using the Leigh D4 tremendously. I just got done using it again yesterday and continue to be impressed with it's ease and accuracy. It is a joy to use and if you went this direction, though expensive, I don't think you would have any regrets.

Most of the furniture I build is in the Shaker style. I use dovetail joinery because of the beauty of the joint first, and the strength of the joint second. Most drawers made with machine cut dovetails, IMHO, lack beauty. When the pin is the same size as the tail, there is something aesthetically missing. It's just not the same to my eye as the variably spaced joint. This was why I went with the D4 jig, among other reasons. It was a matter of beauty.

I hasten to add that I do have an interest in learning how to cut dovetails by hand - a skill that has presently alluded me due to a lack of effort. Here again, though, my desire is driven by what I find beautiful. I find nothing wrong with machine cut joints. They are functional and, if done right, beautiful. The mentality of the Shakers, whose style I'm after, certainly wouldn't have been afraid of jigs and power tools. Thus, I don’t find more beauty in knowing that a piece was cut with a hand saw rather than a router. Just as I don’t find more beauty in a board that was planed by hand rather than power. My desire to cut dovetails by hand is that many of them are more beautiful than those that I can cut on the D4.

In my opinion, standard through dovetails can be done just as well on the D4 as by hand - except for the one Mark shows and others that are more specialized in nature. But half blind joints with a fine, narrow pin, which are the apex of dovetail beauty to me, are only achievable by hand. I would love to be able to do this because I think these joints are stunning on drawers! Thus, I envy those who can execute this joint. They require skill to perform and are a sign of true craftsmanship.

So the long and short of it for me is beauty and functionality. Because this is all so subjective, all I can do is give you my .02

P.S. Thanks for opening up this can of worms :p As you can see, the “which jig” question tends to be a question of worldview :D

[larry merlau]

[QUOTE=Mark Singer]Jim,

old ways// mark do you know how the antques were done, i have an old dresser with half blinds on the drawers and was curious as to how they made them and got production too? didnt have routers back then i dont think.

[Dave Avery]

Jim,
If I am making cabinets as opposed to "furniture" there is nothing wrong with a lock miter or even a Kreg Jig drawer construction. The Kreg is super fast and the screws can be hidden by the drawer fronts. I did my entire closet that way and it looks fine. I don't think every drawer needs to be hand dovetailed, but machine dovetailing is a compromise and attempts to be something it is not...never fooling the people that know...or yourself. It is a bit like a "push up bra" or wood grain laminate...nothing wrong with laminate until it starts to become something it is not. I am a bit of a purest...but that is the intent and direction of fine woodworking...the other stuff is at Levitz and Ikea, including the machine made dovetails.

I have to disagree, Mark. While I have a great deal of respect for the skill and time that takes to hand-cut dovetails, they are not inherently better than machine cut dovetails. While hand cutting looks different - better, in the opinion of many - that view is not universally shared.

As to the issue of what's real vs faux, your view certainly is narrowly purist. If you want to take the position that hand tools alone define the craftsman, I guess that's your right, but I think you have to take that general position. Said differently, do you mill the stock that you prepare for dovetailing by hand? If not, why is that OK when making "furntiture" while machine cutting DT's is not.

What defines your spectacular work as "furniture" is your beautiful designs and the attention to detail with which you execute those designs. Machine vs. hand-cut really doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned.

Cheers, Dave.

[Mark Singer]

Dave,
It is a fine line I am trying to define and that is always difficult. I have at least as many power tools in my shop as most of my fellow SMC friends. I enjoy using them and will always choose the quickest , easiest method that yeilds the best results. I even own a dovetail jig and have used it so I can truly compare the results with a hand cut dovetail. If there is no compromise in the quality, I will always use the easier, quicker method. For example I just cut about 100 tenon joints using my bandsaw and CMS with the depth set high. The yeilded excellent quick results. With dovetails there is a very decernable difference...you are no longer comparing apples with apples....It is truly worth it to learn to do them by hand . It instills a level of confidence that leads to other challenges in the shop and in our work. It tends to elevate the spirit and the ability with the noticed improvement which comes fast. These rewards in the quietness of the shop are worth experiencing and I feel the dovetail jig tends to become a crutch that force one to elude this worthwhile experience and a result that is truly nicer.

[Alan Turner]

Brian,
I budget 8 hours per drawer, which includes everything including resawing, flattening, fitting, fettleing, glued up bottoms, planing the opening if need be, etc., but cutting the joints takes well under an hour per drawer, including glue up. I use hide glue for drawers, which has certain advantages. I don't use it for everything, however. Were I making a kitchen full of drawers, I think the jig might be faster, but for a 7 drawer chest, it is just a fun Saturday with a saw and chisel.
Alan

[Bruce Page]

Brian --
The answer depends to some extent on what you want to do. Some jigs cut only through-dovetails (e.g Keller), and some cut only half-blind (e.g Porter Cable, and probably the Craftsman).

Jamie
I like the PC Omnijig that I have. I have not used any of the others so I can't do any comparisons.

Just for the record, you can cut through dovetails on the PC Omnijigs.

Below are a few of the templates that are available:


Adjustable - Through Dovetails
1/2" Half-Blind Dovetails
1/2" Hand Dovetails (2")
1/4" Half-Blind Dovetails
Tapered Sliding Dovetails
1/2" Box Joints

[Frank Pellow]

I like sawing dovetails by hand and the best jig and saw that I have found for this comes from Lee Valley. Here is a link: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=41718&category=1,42884&ccurrency=1&SID=

[Chris Padilla]

Ah, the prices look better in US dollars, Frank! :eek: Thanks for the link...looks like fun. I think I could make a guide like that...great idea, too.

[Dan Mages]

What is the best way for a newbie hack like myself to learn how to do hand cut dove tails?

[Chris Padilla]

Dan,

follow Frank's link just above...might be worth a try? I'm thinking to dole out. I use my Incra jig for dovetails.

[Mark Singer]

What is the best way for a newbie hack like myself to learn how to do hand cut dove tails?
Try through dovetails first. Tage Frid or Franz Klaus books or videos are helpful in getting started.

[Brian Hale]

Thanks for your input!!

I agree with the idea of mastering hand cut dovetails and have made a few that way, albeit some really bad ones. Perhaps when time allows I’ll make another attempt...

This current project, my first commission in over 10 years, requires a total of 14 drawers about 5.75" tall. The sides will be 1/2" Baltic Birch plywood. I'm quite limited on the time I can spend making these drawers as the customer is working with minimal funds and I quoted aggressively.

I believe in spending money once so I buy the best I can afford. The Leigh jig is the one that caught my eye because it offers the versatility of varied spacing along with blind and thru dovetails. This seemed like the way to go but ~$400 is a fair chunk of cash to lay out without some opinion gathering. Of course the flipside is the Craftsman jig for less than $100.

What other considerations have I missed?


Thanks!

Brian

[Steve Beadle]

I can't think of another woodworking activity I enjoy more than producing hand-cut dovetails. I have a couple of old Craftsman dovetail jigs (1/4" and 1/2"), but I haven't used them for more than twenty years! I hope I don't get into a situation where I would have to use a dovetail jig just to speed up production. That's not why I work wood!

[Dave Avery]

Brian,

I have the Akeda..... currently (or formerly) available at Woodcraft only. There was a fire in the factory - long story.

Anyway, pro's are very easy to learn and use, variable DT spacing (to nearest 1/8", not as expensive as Leigh. Con's are 16" limit, potential availability issues.

I did a long review a while back - check the archives for it, other DT threads, and possibly an update as to availability post-fire. Cheers, Dave.

[Jamie Buxton]

Brian --
You said "The sides will be 1/2" Baltic Birch plywood. I'm quite limited on the time I can spend making these drawers as the customer is working with minimal funds and I quoted aggressively... What have I missed?.."

IMHO Baltic Birch is a good drawer side material. It is strong and stable. The edge is okay to look at, in modern sorts of design. However, if you're going to use BB, I suggest you don't use dovetails. Dovetails have a cachet as "fine furniture", but the plywood drawer sides will take you out of the fine furniture category. In addition, a practical issue with dovetails in plywood is that they're difficult to do well; the router bit tends to chip-out the face veneer where it exits the plywood.

Instead of dovetails, there are other joints which are much much faster to make, and which are still sturdy in plywood. The one I use is a tongue and groove. It is done entirely on a table saw. You cut a goove in the drawer side and a matching tongue in the end of the front piece of the drawer box. If you have a copy of Frid, he does a nice couple of pages on this method.

Jamie

[Cecil Arnold]

I agree with Jamie. DT in BB is difficult to execute well, accompnaied by tear out. You will not appreicate the D4 with Baltic. You might want to consider a sliding dovetale joint, sides to front, as the bit can cut the ply cleanly when used in this manner.