Festool circular saw

[Chris Pasko]

OK, I may have said this before, but I have to say, this has to be one of my favorite tools. I mean this thing I put through its paces while building my house and many other projects. Sometimes even turning to it before my slider.

I cannot thank Bob enough for the day I called offering this to me =). I have about 10 other saw both cordless and not, worm drives and regular. None compare to this. The rail and saw combo is absolutely excellent. If anyone is on the fence with this saw, please do take the plunge, you will never look back.

One thing I don't like, but I haven't ready directions there may be a way to do this =). I would like to be able to lock it into its plunge position so I can easily use a bevel to adjust for angle. Trying to hold it in plunge and adjust for angle can be a bit tedious =).


Well I'm done with my rant, go buy this saw!

[Chris Padilla]

Hey Chris,

Long time no hear! :)

Have you had a chance to check out the www.eurekazone.com (http://www.eurekazone.com) stuff? There is a guy in the Classified section (Greg: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=81798#post81798) ready to sell his once he receives Dino's system!

I'm really looking for folks who have worked BOTH systems. I won the first auction (see the link) and just received my stuff but won't have a chance to play with it for a little while.

Welcome Back!

[Mark Singer]

Chris,
I just also bought the festool plunge saw from Bob M. He shipped it very fast! I really haven't used it much yet. I did make some trial cute. It seems excellent. I don't think it works well for cutting without the guide rail like a regular framing saw. You have to plunge and guide the saw and the blade is on the right...making the view a bit difficult. What do you think? For sheet goods it seems really great! I will probably dedicate it to that use and get a left blade saw for more general work.

[Tyler Howell]

Al right where ya been? We were getting real use to your daily shipments of the newest and nicest toyls in town. How about a pix update of the :

Shop
House
Garage
Dad's shop
Investment property.
& tool inventory????

Welcome back Chris.;)

[Tyler Howell]

[QUOTE=Chris Padilla]Hey Chris,

Long time no hear! :)

Have you had a chance to check out the www.eurekazone.com (http://www.eurekazone.com/) stuff? There is a guy in the Classified section (Greg: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=81798#post81798) ready to sell his once he receives Dino's system!

I'm really looking for folks who have worked BOTH systems. I won the first auction (see the link) and just received my stuff but won't have a chance to play with it for a little while.


Gee Chris,
I'm thinking price alone is going to dictate superior quality. If the Fes. is all I hear it is?? There is no dicussion!

[Chris Padilla]

Mark,

I just picked up the Smart Guide system from Dino so I'm torn right now. I was saving up dollars for the Festool plunge but I am going to hold off now.

My trusty Skil Mag worm-drive saw is near and dear to my heart and has never let me down. Only when I turned it on it's side 90 degrees for several hours did it finally get mad at me and demanded I let it cool down! :D

I also have the Clamp-It tool guide and it works well for me but only for cross-cuts...no ripping of sheet material. If I have to rip long, I do it on the TS still or I hunt around for a decently straight 2x4.

I've successfully trimmed a door with my method. I have a nice CMT blade in my Skil, however--makes a big difference.

[Greg Mann]

Chris,
I just also bought the festool plunge saw from Bob M. He shipped it very fast! I really haven't used it much yet. I did make some trial cute. It seems excellent. I don't think it works well for cutting without the guide rail like a regular framing saw. You have to plunge and guide the saw and the blade is on the right...making the view a bit difficult. What do you think? For sheet goods it seems really great! I will probably dedicate it to that use and get a left blade saw for more general work.
I just got my saw about two weeks ago and have been very pleased with it as well. I also, however, wonder about its use without the guide because the blade is hard to see, even though I'm a lefty. I find it easier to use right handed (lefties are used to that anyway) but that is easy for me with the guide to help.

Just last night I started making some saw horses for a cutting table patterned after Nick Engler's design. It calls for 25 degree, or 65 degree depending on how you view it, crosscuts on the legs that are more rip than crosscut. (Boy that's clear!) Anyway, by setting the angle on a miter with a stop for the overall length on my version of Festool's MFT, this was a piece of cake. The cuts in the pine 2x4s were like glass and every leg was exactly the same when laid next to each other.:D I think the ability to overide the return spring for purposes of settin up angle and such would be nice too. I am sure this can cause some safety issues and is probably why the feature is not there so I can deal with it. As it exists today this has got to be the safest CS around.

BTW, I have made an adapter for using my Bosch router with the guide rail. It is not perfected yet and probably will never be as elegant as using one of Festool's Routers but I think it will allow me to use the system for things like stopped dadoes and sliding dovetails. Still have my eye on a Festool router. Trying to adapt tools to other systems always presents some unique challenges and gives you new appreciation for the tool designs that work so well, like Festool's.

Greg

[Greg Mann]

Mark,

I just picked up the Smart Guide system from Dino so I'm torn right now. I was saving up dollars for the Festool plunge but I am going to hold off now.

Chris,

I am interested in your opinion of Dino's system. He won big points with me in a previous thread about his system versus Festool's. His remark was something along the line of 'Lay off Festool. There not the ones making dumb tools.' That's not a direct quote and I am too lazy to look it up but I think it's close enough.

Gotta love that atitude.

Greg

[Chris Padilla]

Greg,

I plan to get to it but it will be a month or two before I really tear into the system Dino sent me, unfortunately.

I'm currently emptying my garage so I can gut it and remodel it.

Your paraphrase of Dino's quote sounds about right to me. I'll hold off just a bit longer for the plunge saw/guide from Festool and give Dino's system a going through. I do think a Rotex is in my future, however, and perhaps a jigsaw. :D :D

[Greg Mann]

Greg,

I plan to get to it but it will be a month or two before I really tear into the system Dino sent me, unfortunately.

I'm currently emptying my garage so I can gut it and remodel it.

Your paraphrase of Dino's quote sounds about right to me. I'll hold off just a bit longer for the plunge saw/guide from Festool and give Dino's system a going through. I do think a Rotex is in my future, however, and perhaps a jigsaw. :D :D
Wasn't it refreshing to read Dino's remark? Made me like him right off the bat. I have the Rotex and it is very nice. Being able to go from aggressive to normal random and even polishing is very convenient. And all that stuff about no dust is true. Just a finger whipe on the surface but nothing in the air! I read a comment sometime ago about someone picking a different vac over the Festool because it seemed to have a stonger pull. I find I run the Festool about half throttle when sanding because that's all I need and it is even more quiet! The efficiency of the dust collection is designed in so well that you don't need all that extra suction. I've been around compressed air usage all my life and increased air movement is a real contributor to hearing loss. I did some work Monday morning in the shop, real intermittant and short term TS usage, and did not bother with my ear-muffs. Big mistake! My daughter visited in the afternoon and I had a hard time hearing her voice when there was any background noise. Hearing protection is talked about alot on this forum and with good reason. When somebody joins in and says "I'm new to woodworking and what tools should I buy?" I think we should all be stressing hearing protection. When someone complains about the cost of good tools we don't often stress the hearing loss as a hidden expense of cheap tools. Boy, am I ranting or what? And in your case Chris, probably preaching to the choir.

Greg

[Chris Padilla]

Greg,

I'm big on hearing protection--even more so than eye protection! I'll admit I need to remedy this and get my eye protection up to the level of hearing! I really feel sorry for those kids who drive around rattling house windows from the 'way too loud' bass they have going. Their low-frequency hearing will be shot at 30-40 years old and it only makes them turn it up louder so they can hear it--ironic, isn't it....

Anyway, I have a Festool vacuum and the 150/5 ROS and I keep the vacuum cranked up to max but I think I'll take a page from the Greg Mann book and try and dial back the green knob a bit. I still wear hearing protection while sanding but I almost don't need to.

[Frank Pellow]

Greg, this is in response to your comment "Just last night I started making some saw horses for a cutting table patterned after Nick Engler's design." I made these saw horses as well and they are GREAT! I don't know how I lived without them for so many years.

[Frank Pellow]

Mark, this is in response to your comment: "I don't think it works well for cutting without the guide rail like a regular framing saw."

I have cut all the framing for my workshop using the saw as a framing saw (with a corse blade, of course) and love it. The saw excels with the rail but, in my opinion, it goodin all other applications as well. I doubt that I (voluntarily) will ever use another brand of circular saw again.

[Greg Mann]

Greg, this is in response to your comment "Just last night I started making some saw horses for a cutting table patterned after Nick Engler's design." I made these saw horses as well and they are GREAT! I don't know how I lived without them for so many years.
Frank,
You might be interested to know that I had been meaning to make this cutting table set-up since I first saw it but finally was inspired to get going when I saw you using it and the Festool saw in your workshop thread. So when I was up late last night and my wife wanted to know when I was going to be finished I told her it was your fault.:D



Anyway, I have a Festool vacuum and the 150/5 ROS and I keep the vacuum cranked up to max but I think I'll take a page from the Greg Mann book and try and dial back the green knob a bit. I still wear hearing protection while sanding but I almost don't need to.
Chris,
Let me know how throttling back works for you. BTW, how do you like the 150/5? I was thinking about the 150/3 eventually since I have the Rotex. Then again, it works so well I may not ever find the need and I already mentioned I had my eye on a Festool router.....:o

Greg

[Chris Padilla]

You'll get a tad more mileage out of your NE sawhorse set-up by tossing a 1.5-2" thick piece of rigid foam insulation on top of them. I think they are $3-4 a 4x8 sheet at the orange box.

I often use mine right on the garage floor or driveway as I haven't YET made the sawhorse set up.

The 150/5 is awesome...what can I say? I was thinking to pick up the Rotex, sell the 150/5, and also pick up a 150/3 but we'll see. That is a lot of money into sanders and I'm not sure it is necessary once I have the Rotex. I get a spectacular finish with the 150/5...can the 150/3 top it??? :confused: BTW, I have a Makita Polisher that I plan to dump when I get the Rotex.

[Mark Singer]

Mark, this is in response to your comment: "I don't think it works well for cutting without the guide rail like a regular framing saw."

I have cut all the framing for my workshop using the saw as a framing saw (with a corse blade, of course) and love it. The saw excels with the rail but, in my opinion, it goodin all other applications as well. I doubt that I (voluntarily) will ever use another brand of circular saw again.
Frank,
When you use it for cutting without the rail, do you plunge it before starting the cut? What technique do you use?

[Frank Pellow]

Greg, re your comment:

Frank,
You might be interested to know that I had been meaning to make this cutting table set-up since I first saw it but finally was inspired to get going when I saw you using it and the Festool saw in your workshop thread. So when I was up late last night and my wife wanted to know when I was going to be finished I told her it was your fault.

Thanks for telling me Greg. That perceptive of you to notice. You may or may not also have noticed the funky paint on the joints where the cross pieces fit into the legs. A tip to you is to mark each of these joints so that when setting up the horses your get the pieces with the best fits. I made these with quite tight fits but all the slots are not exactly the same size. Maybe you will do a better job of this then I did, and all parts will be easily interchangeable.

[Frank Pellow]

Frank,
When you use it for cutting without the rail, do you plunge it before starting the cut? What technique do you use?

I rest the lip on the board and plunge it before cutting. Other than that, it all seems quite natural and I am unaware of anything special that I am doing. I certainly don't seem to have any problem looking at the front of the blade and following the line.

[Paul Berendsohn]

I've used the Festo a bit and was thisssss close to buying one when I stumbled over Dino's guide and bought it. Believe me, it is everything he says and a bag of chips as the saying goes. The Festo is a fine set up but (IMHO) the Eureka is vastly superior in features, and I believe at least as well made if not better in a number of regards. As to the price difference, don't you like the feeling of a good deal? ;) You aren't sacrificing a thing, I was amazed at the quality of construction and attention to details, large and small.

[Frank Pellow]

Paul, in regard to your comment that "the Eureka is vastly superior in features" I assume that you are talking about the guide rails, not to the Festool saw. Dino even says that the Festool circular saw is very good.

We, on Saw Mill Creek, are still waiting for someone, other than Dino, to write up an extensive review of the two guide rail systems. If I had Dino's guide rail system, even on a temporary basis, I would certainly conduct such a review.

[Christian Aufreiter]

Paul Berendsohn wrote:

the Eureka is vastly superior in features

Could you give me a few examples, please?
I'm really interested in your experiences with this system.

Regards,

Christian

[Frank Pellow]

I neglected to mention another reason the the circular saw is so good as a framing saw. That reason is that, because the blade retracts, the bottom surface is falt and it is always possible to set it down anywhere.

[Paul Berendsohn]

Yes, I'm sorry I should have specified that I was referring to the Eureka Guide system. I no longer have a Festo guide in front of me so I'll do the best I can from memory. The Eureka is bidirectional, so not only can you cut equally precisely to either side, but in the event you damage an edge somehow you have a "spare" until you can repair it. The edge guide is a snap to replace if it suffers damage. The system for joining track sections is a breeze to use and has three different points of attachment so it provides a more secure junction. Although it could be used I imagine with a nonskid mat in a manner similar to the Festo, I prefer the very robust clamping system, especially with narrow or bowed pieces. The "foot" for lack of a better term on the base provides an additional level of anti splintering action with any saw. To make beveled cuts you simply drop the base onto a different slot and retain the original precision. This may be somewhat subjective but it was my feeling that the cross section of the Eureka is more substantial than the Festo and seemed as it would take more knocks (I transport mine regularly) without losing accuracy. Lets see... those are the first things that come to mind, but I'll be happy to discuss it further if anyone's interested. My overall take is that the Eureka does everything the Festo does and then some, is at least as well constructed and much less expensive... Hard to beat IMHO

Paul

[Jim Becker]

Paul, for some reason you are using the name "Festo" in your posts...which from my web search is a different company from "Festool". Did I miss something, or it it just a typo? TYIA

[Chris Padilla]

Jim,

I've seen Festo used in conjuction with Festool so I always wondered what was up with that, myself.

[Paul Berendsohn]

My apologies, you are of course correct.. it's just lazy typing on my part :)

[Gene Collison]

Some of my Festool tools are actually marked "Festo". I think the company could be known in Europe as "Festo", maybe Christian can comment on this!

Gene

[Bob Marino]

Paul, for some reason you are using the name "Festo" in your posts...which from my web search is a different company from "Festool". Did I miss something, or it it just a typo? TYIA

Ok, here goes. Festo is a company name made from the combination of FEzer and STOll, the two founders of the company. The Fezer family is not part of it anymore (since the 1930's) and the company belongs to the Stoll family.

The larger part of Festo is doing "Industrial Automation" (www.festo.com)
and they are the world leaders in pneumatics.

In 2000,the family split up the company into two parts. One part of the family owns Festo Industrial Automation and the other part owns Festool. This made a name change necessary and the family decided to give the power tool division a new name. Thus, Festool is the same company as Festo Tooltecnic, owned by the same family, with the same employees, same products, everything the same except for the new name Festool.

No, I didn't know all the particulars, I asked Christian Oltzscher ;).

Bob

[Mark Singer]

Your all making such a "fess" about nothing too.

[JayStPeter]

.... My overall take is that the Eureka does everything the Festo does and then some, is at least as well constructed and much less expensive... Hard to beat IMHO

Paul

Not everything. To me, the guide system is secondary to the saw itself. There isn't another tool in my shop that could cut MDF all day and not leave a spec of dust. The dust collection on the Festool saw is fantastic. The overall operation of the saw itself is also nice. The plunge action and riving knife make it an excellent tool with or without the guide rails.

I used to use my circular saw with homemade guide rails. But, so much dust was generated, I had to do it outside. I like the Eureka system (and Dino). It just doesn't solve my main problem. I do have my eye on the Eureka table kit though.

Jay

[Paul Berendsohn]

Hmmm, maybe I'll see if I can cobble together the Festo saw with the Eureka guide. Then we could all be happy ;)

[Mark Singer]

My wife uses her Eureka for dust collection and loves it!

[Chris Pasko]

Wow, hehe, whats going on guys? I leave the thread for a few days and come back to all this info on a new system I never heard of before =). It does indeed look very nice.

I like how it has that tiny piece clamped to the bottom and making the cut.

I am with JayStPeter however, I don't ever want to touch my other saws again =). Like Mr. Singer said however, I don't use it when framing/making rough cuts. I then use my milwaukee cordless (which I love for my ghetto jobs and quick stuff).

Marc:

I agree the side you cut on with the festool was a bit tricky at first to me, but once I adapted and gotten used to it, it affects me none. Its just changes slightly the way I did things, and now, its not even a change =)...just habit. I use my festool saw with the guide 100%. I haven't even thought of using it without it, as it seems it would be difficult. I just never even thought of my festool as a framing saw =). The skil worm drive and milwaukee get burnt up for those purposes =).

All in all, I will never use anything but my festool for trimming doors and finish carpentry now. I even find myself using it for some sheet goods over the old slider sometimes when I am too lazy to run across the property =).

[Chris Pasko]

Al right where ya been? We were getting real use to your daily shipments of the newest and nicest toyls in town. How about a pix update of the :

Shop
House
Garage
Dad's shop
Investment property.
& tool inventory????

Welcome back Chris.;)


Hehe, hey Tyler =), I have been pretty busy finishing up the house I built on my parents property. You can see it here:

My House (http://www.cvreefers.org/modules/gallery/album29)

Its kind of small, and no the colors aren't as bad as they look in the photos =). I am almost finished thank God! I will be moving in there in about a week or so if all goes well.

I haven't had much time/money for ordering new toys as of late, nor do much in ways of the shop. My furniture is about to be moved out, so that will give me a lot more breathing room in there.

As for investment properties, I have 4 now in my collection waiting for rehab. I just got a screaming deal on one =), the guy dropped from 70k to 46k and ARV is about 200k+ =). Needs about 20k of work to make it extremely top of the line =). I should be starting up with them again next week when I finish up my house.

As for tools, just little odds and ends are new. However, the old minimax cu300 smart may be hitting the market within the next few months. Soon there may be a 20" format 4 jointer/planer and a kf700s pro felder saw/shaper combo hehe. I will keep everyone posted as that deal progresses =).

Good to see ya again.

[Jim Becker]

Hehe, hey Tyler Soon there may be a 20" format 4 jointer/planer and a kf700s pro felder saw/shaper combo hehe.
You must be talkin' with Erik... :D Nice stuff.

[Chris Pasko]

You must be talkin' with Erik... :D Nice stuff.

Of course hehe =).

[Christian Aufreiter]

Some of you might wonder why I haven't already posted a response to Paul's message. The reason is simple. I had a long discussion (http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB2&Number=963656&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=all) on another forum which I really didn't want to continue here.

Regards,

Christian

[Mark Singer]

Some of you might wonder why I haven't already posted a response to Paul's message. The reason is simple. I had a long discussion (http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB2&Number=963656&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=all) on another forum which I really didn't want to continue here.

Regards,

Christian
Wow! Amazing! Its funny you go to the lumber yard and bring back a small stack of hardwood or a few sheets of decent plywood and write a check for $1000 and then try to save $100 on some tool that in your heart you know is not as good and then spend hours justifying it...go figure

[Paul Berendsohn]

Wow! Amazing! Its funny you go to the lumber yard and bring back a small stack of hardwood or a few sheets of decent plywood and write a check for $1000 and then try to save $100 on some tool that in your heart you know is not as good and then spend hours justifying it...go figure
LOLLLLLLL... I hope you aren't referring to me Mark?

[Greg Mann]

Let's see. Cost for Smartguide system looks like $220 based on:

2pcs. of MB-1 @ $75 each (50 inch guides) =$150
3pcs. of C-1 @ $5 ea.(connecters) =$15
1pc. of EAC-1 @ $5 (anti-splinter strip) =$5
2pc. of CL-1 @ $15 ea. (undermount clamp)=$30
1pc. of Smart Base @ @ $20 =$20

Total =$220

This gives you what you probably need to cut an 8 foot length of plywood assuming you have a CS to mount. If you have a decent CS that you want to use, this is a fine way to improve your work. I use the term 'decent' because we are comparing to Festool's system and I believe everyone agrees that 'decent' is at least a minimum threshold adjective to describe their saw. What does a good CS cost? Everyone can put in their own number here and some of you will use zero because you already have the saw. Fair enough.

Cost of Festool Guide system:

2pcs. of FS1400/2 Guide Rails @ $59 ea. =$118
2pcs connector @ $9 ea. =$18(Festool is now shipping 2 slot guide rails that can use 2 connectors but are still backwards compatible)
2 Clamps @ $25 ea. =$50
1 Deflector @ $9* =$9

Total = $195

This includes the deflector* that as far as I can tell is not available on the Smarguide. This keeps the cord and vacuum from catching on the end of the system as you move forward. Necessary? No, but convenient. The two guide rails give you 110 inches of length which makes that 8 foot cut a little easier but is still no show stopper for the Smartguide. At this point, the system still only works with Festool's saw which, when I do the math, is another $225 (the two clamps are not in Festool's saw package). For that you get a great saw, a package that is designed to work as a system from the ground up, dust control, 10" more travel, and the groundwork for a systemic approach to routing, jig saw work, etc.

I think this whole excersize tends to take all of us in a circle. Dino has come up with a very nice solution to a problem we all would like to solve (straight, clean cuts on unwieldy subjects) if we want to use a basically off-the-shelf saw, could even be our own shelf. It can be adapted to guiding a router and other tools, I am sure, with a little effort and ingenuity. I think Dino is already working on making things like that part of the system.

Festool has already done all that within their own system. Power tool companies don't usually make accessries that work well with other companies tools, unless it is by accident. That is where the aftermarket folks like Dino, MicroFence, etc. come into play. No one should be criticizing Festool. Even Dino has paid them their dues. I am sure if he had to design and market his own saw, his system would be alot more expensive.

Hats off to both Dino and Festool. Because of them we have a solution to a problem and we can pick the one that makes the most sense to each of us. That doesn't make one intrinsically better or worse than the other, just different.
Greg

[Paul Berendsohn]

Mark,

I assume you overlooked the package prices on the Eureka as opposed to skewing the data ;) I paid 165 for mine as I recall. Now, my intention isn't to start another front in the Festool/Eureka debate but... To imply the Festool is somehow "systemic" by it's ability to use routers etc is to seriously underestimate the Eureka's design...

In any event, if we want to reopen the debate, I'll check in in the morning... Gnight all ;)

[Christian Aufreiter]

Excellent post, Greg. I totally agree.

Regards,

Christian

[Mark Singer]

LOLLLLLLL... I hope you aren't referring to me Mark?
No Paul....no need to worry...it was a guy on another forum in a long discussion about cutting wood with a saw ....how can one argue with that? and if he can save money doing it all the better!

[JayStPeter]

Greg,
I agree with your point, but I'm sorry to say that your math is off. The Festool system you spec'ed costs about $100 more than you estimated. The 2nd rail/connectors/etc. don't come with the saw. There is also the hidden cost of the vacuum hose to connect to your shop vac (although this wouldn't be part of an apples-to-apples comparo).

There are a variety of systems to accomplish what these two systems do. Ranging in cost from the lowly straight scrap clamped to the piece, all the way to the Festool system, and then even further to panel saws. Anyone claiming their system is the "best" is blowing smoke. They all have their relative strengths and weaknesses.

Jay

[Greg Mann]

Jay,

You are right. I went back and added up the package and the accessories I listed in the post. It would cost $511 with the saw.I guess I implied that Festool was somehow 'cheaper than the Smartguide' and I apologize. That was not my intent. I was just trying to compare the cost of Festool's components that roughly compare to the Smartguide system. This is admittedly a slippery slope and I probably should have refrained. I just wanted to point out that if someone was starting at zero -no saw/no nothing- and wanted a first class solution, then the cost might not be that much different and boils down to how much one values other variables such as dust control or being able to buy their blades at Home Depot.

We all tend to expose our biases between the lines and I am culpable to. I like Festool's entire product line, marketing approach, warranty, etc. But I also admire Dino's refusal to criticize Festool. His system is very nice and gives us all another choice.

Greg

[Chris Padilla]

Ah, Capitalism at its finest...gotta love it!! :D

You could have gotten a better deal had you guys participated in Dino's most generous auction a week or so ago! ;)

[Greg Mann]

Ah, Capitalism at its finest...gotta love it!! :D

You could have gotten a better deal had you guys participated in Dino's most generous auction a week or so ago! ;)
True, Chris. But not as good a deal as YOU got.:)

Greg

[Paul Berendsohn]

Whew, I sure am relieved to hear that Mark. I was afraid you were poking fun at me and here I was about to console you to not feel bad about paying hundreds of dollars more for something that did less... ;)

[Dino Makropoulos]

Hi Greg. Hi Guys.
This is what's in the box. A. 18 unique componets ( You count only 9.)
B. 13 minds. (with over 260 years working exp.)
C. And a challenge. to any and all people and tools

And this is the real price.
100 Inch Complete System SGS-1 $179.00
(2) MB-1 50" Guides (1) GB 50" Guide Bar (2) 25" guide bars
(4) EAC-1 50"A.C. edges (2) C-1 S.A. Connectors
(1) SB-1 Smart Base (2) AC-1 Anti-chip inserts
(2) AC-2 Anti-chip inserts
(2) CL-1 Smart Clamps


And the same system without the clamps SGS-1NC $150.00
You can use your own clamps and go vertical If you have to ....

Just to get the EZSmart facts straight.
And to remind some about the Eurekazone challenge.

Regards.
Your carpenter friend
Dino.

[Greg Mann]

Hi Greg. Hi Guys.
This is what's in the box. A. 18 unique componets ( You count only 9.)
B. 13 minds. (with over 260 years working exp.)
C. And a challenge. to any and all people and tools

And this is the real price.
100 Inch Complete System SGS-1 $179.00
(2) MB-1 50" Guides (1) GB 50" Guide Bar (2) 25" guide bars
(4) EAC-1 50"A.C. edges (2) C-1 S.A. Connectors
(1) SB-1 Smart Base (2) AC-1 Anti-chip inserts
(2) AC-2 Anti-chip inserts
(2) CL-1 Smart Clamps


And the same system without the clamps SGS-1NC $150.00
You can use your own clamps and go vertical If you have to ....

Just to get the EZSmart facts straight.
And to remind some about the Eurekazone challenge.

Regards.
Your carpenter friend
Dino.
Thanks Dino,

I just took the prices individually from your website, just like I did for Festool. I should not have done that because it obscured what I was trying to say.

I suspect you developed your system for folks who would want to use it with their existing tools to improve their results without having to duplicate them to get into Festool's system. None of the so-called major manufacturers have done that for us. Would you care to comment?

As I have stated several times I respect that you don't take potshots at Festool.

Greg

[Dino Makropoulos]

Hi Greg.
The EZsmart is the first part and a major componet of the SSS.

When our design team found out that similar ideas was around for a long time,
And thousands of patents was allready issue on tools,systems,guides and accesories, ...we all laughed and continued our work,even harder and happier
To us that meant the need was still there and the problems unsolved.
.
By the way, I nickname the team, N.A.S.A. (Not another stupid accesorie)

Our Goal was to fit an entire woodworking shop in the trunk of my Fiat spider.
And to make woodworking SAFE-FUN-EASY and AFFORDABLE to ANYONE.

For now we can use the EZSmart alone. One step at the time.
And after we build our customer base, we go to step two.

And I will not take any potshots (I learn every day) at any one and special to my friends At festool.( Nobody can ignore what they have done so far)
I know better than anyone else what they hade to go thru.

But on the other hand I will no take any potshots by anyone either.
Not that i will get upset or get into a ( Fight ) every time someone says
something against the EZSmart. I will just offer him to take the challenge.
After all I like to find a better way to.
Regards

[Greg Mann]

I think you summed it up pretty well Dino. BTW, I forgot to commend you for your generosity in donating the systems for a worthy cause.

Greg

[Dino Makropoulos]

Thank you Greg.
Thanks SMC.

[Harish C. Mathur]

Dino, I purchased one of your guide systems and a Porter Cable saw with the blade on the left side of the saw (424MAG). The guide arrived and I'm waiting on the saw. Here is the question. I followed a link from this forum to another and read the guide works right hand saws. Will it work with the LH blade saw I ordered? Are there any pros or cons to one type of saw or the the other? It is not clear to me why it would matter. Thanks, Harish

[Tim Sproul]

Harish,

I'd also read the Eureka guide would only work with right blade saws....I've already got a PC left blade. Waiting to hear from Dino on this as well.....

[Dino Makropoulos]

Hi Guys
The Smart Base (for now ), works better with right blade saws.

You can use your left blade saw if you turn (rotate)the smart base around
and use the rear as front. But you will loose the antichip inserts
AC-1 And AC-2.You still have antichip protection on one side of
the cut from the EAC-1 (Antichip edge) that is good only if the other side
of the cut is the waste piece or needs to be retrim again.

We will post more instructions by next week about left and right blade saws.
And how you can use your left blade saw if you have to.
Untill you get the new left Smart Base.
We're looking at 8 to 12 weeks away. And it will be free to anyone who still needs one.
My self ,i like to see the left blade saws away from the right hand
and the right blade saws away from the left hand people.
By using a guide with zero positioning there is not need to keep looking at the cutting line.and have a 5000 rpm blade close to your left hand.
And if you're cutting without the guide Its just EZ to tranfser the cutting line
To a visible one by making a very simple jig or using the cheeter (Amazon)
Someone come up with the left blade saws for right handed and is becoming very popular among users,companies,emergency rooms,insurance,layers and not to mention the ones that know all about woodworking .

I know I'am getting out of the subject here but the decision to make the Smart base only for the right blade saws, at first, was mine knowning that
it will give us the chance and maybe start some safety concerns.
But to be fair to our left hand friends we're coming up with a Left Smart Base
to be use with... their left blade saws. Who knows..by that time we may even start the Great Saw Exchance.
We lost few customers so far by not having a left Smart Base available yet.
But we allready have many others that bought a right blade saw.
When the new smart base is available I will ask all my friends to trade in their extra saw and we will test and return back to them a similar but opposite blade saw from other trade ins.
So, If You have a left blade saw and you're right handed, the best thing is to get a right blade saw and trade in yours in the near future ,if you care about
yours,and why not, others safety.
Because in the long run,we all pay for it.
The saw that I recommend is the one that you fill comfordable with.
I like to have electrick brake and dust port for vaccum hose if needed.
Low noise and EZ controls.
Thanks guys and WELCOME to eurekazone.
Your carpenter friend.
Dino

[Tim Sproul]

Dino,

Let me make sure I read your post ok.

If I order the current complete system, you'll send me a Smart base designed for Left Blade circular saws, for free? When such bases become available.

[Jim Becker]

Dino, many right-handed folks use "left bladed" saws simply because they can see the blade and cut line easier.

[Mark Singer]

Jim,
That is true and I believe seeing the blade makes them more accurite and safer. Is you can see the blade you know whay is happening....if you can't you are guessing ...never a good thing to do. I have used a Skill 77 or Rockwell worm drive(left blade) for 30 years and (knock wood...tapping my head) no accidents. The Festool is a right blade and should be used with the guide. I am going to get a PC 743 for unguided cutting around the shop, they are about $100 .

[Jim Becker]

I am going to get a PC 743 for unguided cutting around the shop, they are about $100 .
I've been thinking about a 314 or a cordless equivalent small blade saw for that kind of thing...but it hasn't been a priority. The Festool plunge saw/CT22/Rotex are next on my list after the drum sander which I should have by next weekend.

[Dino Makropoulos]

Hi Tim,
Tim the answer is YES.
Any one who needs a left Smart base gets one.

-After we spend few minutes talk about safety-

Hi Jim. The first time I was an eyewitness
to a job site accident was from a left blade
CS that was used by right hand person
And the last time....the same thing again.

Looking at the blade while you cut is looking for an accident.
Do you ever see anyone using goggles?
If you transfer (off set) your cutting line to your left or the
right of your saw base
You have a full view of your cutting line and allways a better cut.
And by not having to look at the blade you can pay more attention
To, let say, someone bumps on you or hit you with a 2x4 or..

The other problem is that your left hand is close to the 5000 rpm
blade and nothing between.
when you cut a board...
Your cut off piece drops, your saw drops,and you have a kickback.
Or your guard is stock, you put the saw down and you cut your toes.
In both cases the chances for an accident are greater if you use
A left blade CS with your right hand.
All this problems can be avoided by making a simple jig to tranfer
the cutting line to a full view line. Insted makind a line for your blade,draw the line for your shoe.(base)
Regards
Your carpenter friend
Dino

[Harish C. Mathur]

Dino, thanks for reply and offer to provide the left hand base when it becomes available. I ordered my Porter-Cable left hand (LH) blade saw (it has the brake) after reading through this forum and understanding the benefits to right hand guys like myself. I also read through your website before placing my order. There was nothing on the website, that I found, about the fact a LH bladed saw would not work well with the guide system. I would have reconsidered my saw (perhaps even guide system) purchase had I seen it. I'd like to respectfully ask that you add a clear note to the website.

In terms of choices of systems, I havn't tried or seen the EZSmart or the Festool system. To me both are fancy straight edges (I'm actually surprised that the debate on both systems has never turned to the accuracy (straightness) of the systems). I picked the EZSmart system because of 1) the guide "looks" beefer 2) the amount of passion you have for your product! I love seeing the small guy (company) thats really gets excited about what they are doing come out and take on the big guys. For me the relative cost was not an issue.

As far as my situaton, it looks like I will not be using the guide until the left hand base becomes available (don't feel good about returning the saw to Amazon for something that is not their fault). I don't want to goof up the anti-splinter parts it came with. Let us know when the new base is ready to ship. Also, you would not hurt my feelings if you through in all the goodies (router sled and table kit) you gave guys that bought your system as part of the auction (I bought mine from the Toolfetch - $185) in the box you send me. It would certainly make me feel better about the dust my system will collect.

BTW, I've been reading this forum and Badger Pond for many years. I've always enjoyed it. Particularly the positive attitude and responsiveness of those that frequent it. Harish

[Harish C. Mathur]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width=941 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Dino, I just went back to your website and it does state that the system works with Right Bladed saws. The site looks quite a bit different from when I was there last. If it has always stated to use only right bladed saws, then I do apologize for the misinformation in my last post. I simply don't remember seeing it before! Harish









</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Joseph N. Myers]

I have both the right and left PC saws and just for kicks, tried them out to check out the differences (outside of the "can see better" part). One of the differences is where the weight of the saw is placed with respect to the "save" vs "waste" piece. Assuming a right bladed saw is used to cut the right side of the board, the weight of the saw will be on the "save" side so the "waste" side will fall off and not "bind" and the saw will stay on the "save" side (see picture 1).

If a left handed blade saw is used in the same situation, the weight of the saw will be on the "waste" side so the saw will have a tendency to follow the "waste" side as it falls (see picture 2). No big deal but one has to be aware of this and hold on to the saw to keep it parallel to the board during and after the cut. Otherwise, the wood will bind and cause all sorts of problems. (I think this was part of last weeks' "Why can't I cut a 2x4" problem in addition to him "holding the cut-off").

Notice that the above situations remain the same no matter if your right or left handed. Also if one cuts the other end of the board (e.g., left end of the board), the reverse is true.

Again, not big deal and it surely doesn't offset the value of "seeing the cut" with a left handed blade but just one more thing to consider in the safety side of the issue.

Regards, Joe

[Dino Makropoulos]

Hi Harish.
Go back to my previus posts about R/L and L/R Circular Saws.
And If you still think the left saw is good for you, I will machine one left base for you by next week.(CNC)
If you decide to go with the right blade saw,we will pay your exchance cost.
To get the other goodies You have to make a donation to FPP (any amount)
Waymon Stringer is waiting and he will match your donation too.
I hope you go for the right bladed circular saw, because I don't like to ever say to you...I told you so...

And about your decision to go with one and not the other system.
There times that I recommend the other one.
Like my friend Joe Myers said...One haves to evaluate his needs.
And ones needs may even call for a combination of both systems

Thanks Harish.

[Harish C. Mathur]

Joe, Thanks for posting the pictures of both the left and right hand PC saws (I’m surprised you have both saws!!). I can see where on the LH bladed saw it would make the cut line a bit easier to see. But, I can also see where the operator is forced to hold up more of the weight of the saw. I can also see where your left hand ends up closer to the blade (Dino’s points). I can clearly see where this could potentially get to be dangerous after a long day of using the saw.

Dino, I think I’ll bite on your offer (Wow) to help replace the saw. Given that I have used it, I can’t exchange my saw. So if you are willing to split the cost, I’ll order the new saw and donate my current one to a group of folks I know that build houses (similar to Habitat for Humanity) for needy folks. I’ll also take you up on the donation to the FPP fund to get the extra goodies. I’m not a paypal user so I’ll send it in by snail mail.

BTW, Thanks! I am truly amazed by the level of customer service your team offers!!