How thin a strip can you afford to cut on a TS?

[John Ricci]

I post this so as not to hijack any of the other threads regarding thin strip cutting on a TS. For me the question is how thin a strip can you afford to cut? Safety issues aside, the thinner a strip you cut on a TS, the more expensive the strips become. Using a full kerf blade as an example, one can cut 1/8" strips from a board but at this width you are wasting as much as you are cutting so a full 50% of your wood $$$ (unless you are somehow set up to make your own mdf) is reduced to trash. It would be possible to cut even thinner strips but the cost gets even greater. A project using laminated strips to be glued in a bending form could cost a fortune in a hurry:(

The BS would be the better choice in my mind for strip cutting and keeping costs under control but granted, not everyone has that option available to them. Waste in the form of sawdust is inevitable but for my $$$ there are limits. The last time I checked, wood wasn't getting any cheaper. Am I not making sense here folks?:confused:

J.R.

[Jon Grider]

I started a thread on cutting thin strips on the TS about a week ago. I understand the waste made by the TS saw kerf,even a thin kerf sawblade generates a huge amount of waste. That is pretty much a given. I do not like turning my expensive wood into sawdust either when ripping thin strips and would choose my bandsaw to do this operation IF, I had a smooth ready to glue surface from the bandsaw like I do from the TS. I have experimented with several different bandsaw blades, and two different fence systems,including a one point fence and a traditional fence clamped at an angle to follow the bandsaws natural drift, but I can't get a smooth enough cut for me to feel good amout gluing the strips together after ripping them on the BS.

I would be grateful to hear of the techniques used by others who are more proficient than me on the bandsaw to rip thin strips that are ready to be glued.

[Lee Schierer]

I started a thread on cutting thin strips on the TS about a week ago. I understand the waste made by the TS saw kerf,even a thin kerf sawblade generates a huge amount of waste. That is pretty much a given. I do not like turning my expensive wood into sawdust either when ripping thin strips and would choose my bandsaw to do this operation IF, I had a smooth ready to glue surface from the bandsaw like I do from the TS. I have experimented with several different bandsaw blades, and two different fence systems,including a one point fence and a traditional fence clamped at an angle to follow the bandsaws natural drift, but I can't get a smooth enough cut for me to feel good amout gluing the strips together after ripping them on the BS.

I would be grateful to hear of the techniques used by others who are more proficient than me on the bandsaw to rip thin strips that are ready to be glued. Me too. I hear folks all the time saying to do the rip cuts on a bandsaw, but, I've never had mine cut an edge I would feel good about gluing to another edge cut on the same saw without running both across the jointer first, which essentialy uses up as much wood and more time than the cut would take on a well tuned TS using a thin kerf blade. Is it possible to get a glue ready edge from a BS?? It is on a TS.

[Porter Bassett]

the thinner a strip you cut on a TS, the more expensive the strips become.No they don't.

Assuming a 1/8" kerf, it takes 1/4" to make an 1/8" strip, but it only takes 3/16" to cut a 1/16" strip.

The thinner strip is actually 25% cheaper than the thicker strip.

[John Ricci]

No they don't.

Assuming a 1/8" kerf, it takes 1/4" to make an 1/8" strip, but it only takes 3/16" to cut a 1/16" strip.

The thinner strip is actually 25% cheaper than the thicker strip.

The waste "outstrips" the useable piece. You have still made 1/8" worth of sawdust to get a 1/16" strip of wood.

J.R.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Are you guys talking about veneer thin stock? If so, why not just use veneer for stock?

Last time I did this, I cut on the bandsaw, and one of two passes with a handplane to cleanup. Maybe 60% of the stock gets used in the actual lamination with 1/8" strips cut on the bandsaw I'd think.

As for $ limits, depends on the customers desire to pay for it, even if the customer is yourself.

[Porter Bassett]

The waste "outstrips" the useable piece. You have still made 1/8" worth of sawdust to get a 1/16" strip of wood.Yeah. That's what I said.

[Rod Sheridan]

The answer to this question is "As thin as is required by the project".

If you need a 1mm strip, you need a 1 mm strip. It's that simple.

Yes you may make more waste than useful pieces, however that doesn't matter, you need the strip.

Regards, Rod.

[Rick Potter]

If you are in a production mode, the waste does add up. A hobbyist like me usually only needs a few strips for a project, and for this the better cut of the table saw makes sense. In my case the thin strips usually come from leftovers when cutting wider boards anyway.

Rick Potter

[Larry Fox]

The waste "outstrips" the useable piece. You have still made 1/8" worth of sawdust to get a 1/16" strip of wood.

J.R.

The amount of waste remains the same regardless of how thin the strip is. The ratio of waste to usable product reduces as your strip thickness goes down.

Assuming an 1/8" kerf;

- for an 1/8" strip the ratio is 1:1 (waste:usable)
- for a 1/16" strip the ratio is 2:1
- 1/32 ratio is 4:1

I think this is what you were saying but this is just a different way.

[Porter Bassett]

Right. The narrower strips are cheaper per strip, but more expensive per board foot.

[Jon Grider]

Are you guys talking about veneer thin stock? If so, why not just use veneer for stock?

Last time I did this, I cut on the bandsaw, and one of two passes with a handplane to cleanup. Maybe 60% of the stock gets used in the actual lamination with 1/8" strips cut on the bandsaw I'd think.

As for $ limits, depends on the customers desire to pay for it, even if the customer is yourself.


I don't use veneer thin stock, the rockers I make require .125 and .090 thin strips.They are stack laminated in a form and require smooth sides for good glue bonds and appearance. I hadn't thought about using a hand plane to clean up one bandsawn edge, the other, I suppose could be jointed before bandsawing. Thanks for the input,I'm always open to new ideas.

[Chris Padilla]

Even my Lenox Trimaster carbide 1/16" kerf bandsaw blade brand new out of the box didn't leave a glue-ready finish. Think about the blade on a BS vs a TS. The TS's blade is very stiff...the BS's blade is still flexible even under lottsa tension. I think this is why it can be difficult to get a glue ready finish from a BS.

However, a few swipes from a well-tuned handplane can likely clean up the rough cut on both the cut piece and the stock and I think you'd still be ahead of a TS in terms of the waste ratio posted about above.

I've had good success with a 0.035" (~1/32"+) kerf bimetal blade (Lenox Diemaster 2) in resawing so I bet it might help in the quest to maximize wood useage. I'm on a never-ending quest to find THE bandsaw blade that can maximze veneers from a plank of wood. It is a balance of kerf and cut quality.

[Curt Harms]

With a decent band saw & blade, you shouldn't need to remove more than a few thousandths from each side of the strip. I haven't gotten around to putting a Wixey DRO on the drum sander (yet;)) but I KNOW I'm removing less than .12" (1/8") from a bandsawn-both-sides strip. Carbide band saw blades like the TriMaster will yield a ready to glue ready surface but I believe it takes a pretty substantial saw to run the Trimaster class blades and a pretty substantial wallet to buy 'em. The Lenox DieMaster and Woodslicer from Highland Woodworking get good reviews for smooth cuts but I have no experience with either blade.

HTH

Curt

[Jeff Duncan]

Wow, you guys are actually worried about the waste from a saw kerf, talk about a recession:eek:
A 1/8" saw kerf gives the same amount of waste regardless of whether I cut a 6" wide board or a 1/16" wide strip. The ratio for me is completely irrelevant, waste is what it is. Generally if I have to cut thin strips I do so on the bandsaw as it's more convenient. I joint both edges, run both sides through the saw then run the sawn faces through the sander. I do it this way b/c of ease though, not waste. I have 2" rip off-cuts that go in the scrap barrel, and generally 1/8" or more thickness planed off the face of roughsawn stock, I'm not worried about a 1/8" saw kerf;)
JeffD

[Danny Burns]

Take a board and run it through the Bandsaw, and then plane it flat and then scrape the bandsawed strip flat, and you come close to the waste of a tablesaw.

The real cost is in the time that you spend doing all these steps.

[Dave Bureau]

OH NO, Now I have to worry about the waste my saw kerf is making?:D

[Eric DeSilva]

Oddly, just sat down with this month's FWW, and they have an article on using thin kerf TS rip blades for this very reason. Their claim is that thin kerf blades have improved significantly.

[glenn bradley]

The waste "outstrips" the useable piece. You have still made 1/8" worth of sawdust to get a 1/16" strip of wood.

J.R.

Of course. So, what actually is the question here? If I need a matching strip of 1/16" walnut for a piece I will make it. If I needed 50 I would buy them.

[Chris Friesen]

One thing that I haven't seen in this thread is to use small circular-saw blades on the table-saw if you don't need the depth of cut. They are available in very thin-kerf (3/64" is available) versions due to the relative lack of power of some of the smaller saws, and because of the small diameter they don't wobble much.

The only way to get a thinner kerf is to use a Woodslicer blade on the bandsaw--they claim it has a 1/32" kerf and is ready to glue right off the saw. Note--I've never used one myself, so take that claim with a grain of salt.

[Sonny Edmonds]

Oddly, just sat down with this month's FWW, and they have an article on using thin kerf TS rip blades for this very reason. Their claim is that thin kerf blades have improved significantly.

To that I say, "Malarkey!"
Thin kerf blades develop a deflection when working cutting wood, causing the blade to widen the kerf.
So it takes more work and waste to fix what the thin kerf is supposed to save. And those opinions were formed watching the blade with a feeder moving the stock at a precise and slow rate. The blades just get a harmonic wobble visible to the naked eye.
The thin kerf blades simply do not have enough meat in the plate to do a smooth and precise cut in most woods, especially in hardwoods.

Waste in saw mills gets made into particle board, MDF, and even hard board like Masonite.

I never worry about waste. What about the waste a planer or joiner puts out? That is HUGE compared to saw dust.
You either work wood, or get back on the porch.